Was Lehi Led Away By An Angel Of Darkness?

[HappyJackWagon]

 

I think the premise of this approach is legitimate (i.e., is it possible that Joseph Smith was deceived by an evil entity?), but it is not brought up in good faith. That is, those seeking to make a point using it don't actually believe that there are evil or good entities (not really) ---- they are just seeking to show that Joseph Smith didn't use his own criteria. 

 

It seems to me that critics/unbelievers strenuously avoid going down even the "evil" supernatural road, because that leaves the door open for the alternative (and that just can't be allowed). Hence, the exclusive preference for "Joseph Smith or some committee of people wrote the Book of Mormon" approaches.

I absolutely believe in an afterlife and good and evil spirits. I have my doubts about how much evil spirits are able to interact with humans though. Personally I feel that interactions with spiritual beings are more likely to be dream like visions than actual physical visitations, which also leads me to agree with MFbufowski that the handshake is less to do with a physical sensation than an exchange of knowledge. But I don't discount the possibility that these types of spiritual experiences are more physical. I don't know.

Again, for a question you claim is legitimate you seem intent on deligitimizing anyone who asks it. Curious.

[DBMormon]

The episode he mentions is available here http://mormondiscussionpodcast.org

Today’s episode deals with Section 132 of the D&C. We talk about the introduction of polygamy, the angel with the drawn sword, and Joseph’s adherence with the revelation. While Critics accuse Joseph Smith of creating section 132 to fulfill his sexual needs and while apologists proclaim the revelation is from God and that criticism should cease, I argue there is indeed a third option. An option that is much more nuanced. We take time and use scriptural sources as well as the quotes of leaders to show there is room and precedent to set off to the side that 132 is not from God while still holding up Joseph as the prophet of the restoration. When we add up nuanced views of Scripture, Prophets, and ministering angels, is there room to both doubt section 132 while still leading with faith.

Edited April 23, 2015 by DBMormon

[rodheadlee]

If you believe that section 132 is not from God doesn't that invalidate your temple sealing?

[rongo]

 

I absolutely believe in an afterlife and good and evil spirits. 

I wouldn't have guessed that, based on your posts.

 

I have my doubts about how much evil spirits are able to interact with humans though.

Oh.

 

Do you think they can interact with humans at all?

 

It seems to me that you don't believe in "evil spirits" in any practical way.

 

 

Again, for a question you claim is legitimate you seem intent on deligitimizing anyone who asks it. Curious.

 

Not so curious. It's an absolutely legitimate question, and one that believers shouldn't run away from. Why should it be "curious" to make an observation?

[rongo]

 

 

Would you also agree then that the First Vision was a vision and not a physical visitation?

After all, it's the first "vision".

I firmly believe that it was a physical visitation. I could be wrong, but I don't think that Joseph Smith used the term "first vision." I think that this was a later label from others. 

 

He described his terrifying struggle with Satan, and the dispelling of the darkness, as physical.

[HappyJackWagon]

 

#1- I wouldn't have guessed that, based on your posts.

 

  

#2- It seems to me that you don't believe in "evil spirits" in any practical way.

 

 

#3- Not so curious. It's an absolutely legitimate question, and one that believers shouldn't run away from. Why should it be "curious" to make an observation?

 

#1- I guess this is just the latest example of you being wrong, then. It's okay. We're all wrong sometimes...except Scott

#2- I would expect there to be a wide range of belief within the church about this. Do demons have the power to possess the bodies of the innocent? Or are there limits to their powers to interact? Can they make a person's head spin, Exorcist style, or are they limited in their physical interactions? I know people with varying ideas on each of these questions. So when I state that I question the amount of interaction they have with us I consider that reasonable based upon my own experiences and observations.

#3- Believers should "run away" from "legitimate" questions? I know many agree with you but I don't. It's a difference in philosophy but I believe legitimate questions should be asked and studied in hopes of finding an answer, regardless of whether or not it scares some people.