Excommunication of Landon Brophy

[Stargazer]

12 hours ago, 3DOP said:

Catholics believe that in Holy Communion, the saints on earth are one in unity with Christ in the Eucharist. Excommunication occurs when a Catholic commits an act or obstinately professes a belief that is incompatible with that unity.

It only means that the person is put on notice that the Church has judged that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion. The excommunicated party is welcomed and encouraged to continue assisting at Mass. 

It is no different than when one has committed a mortal sin. If one deliberately sins in a serious, or grave matter, it is sacrilege to receive Holy Communion, until we are reconciled with God by making a Sacramental confession of repentance wherein we intend to make reparation and have a firm purpose of amendment.

Excommunication is an expression of mercy to the guilty party warning them that receiving Holy Communion sacrilegiously (not in unity with other communicants) must not be taken lightly, but with the knowledge that whenever there is desire to return, a priest will happily receive us back into unity in the Confessional. In the meantime, our fellowship at Mass is welcomed.

 

This actually corresponds with the purpose of LDS membership withdrawal.

From the General Handbook:

"If a member commits a serious sin, the bishop or stake president helps him or her repent. As part of this process, he may need to restrict some Church membership privileges for a time. In some situations, he may need to withdraw a person’s membership for a time. Restricting or withdrawing a person’s membership is not intended to punish. Rather, these actions are sometimes necessary to help a person repent and experience a change of heart. They also give a person time to prepare spiritually to renew and keep his or her covenants again."

A person whose membership has been withdrawn lose certain privileges. They may not, among other things, partake of the Sacrament or pay tithing. 

"They are encouraged to attend Church meetings and activities if their conduct is orderly. Those whose Church membership has been withdrawn can be considered for readmission by baptism and confirmation. Usually, they first need to show genuine repentance for at least one year."

 

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

This actually corresponds with the purpose of LDS membership withdrawal.

From the General Handbook:

"If a member commits a serious sin, the bishop or stake president helps him or her repent. As part of this process, he may need to restrict some Church membership privileges for a time. In some situations, he may need to withdraw a person’s membership for a time. Restricting or withdrawing a person’s membership is not intended to punish. Rather, these actions are sometimes necessary to help a person repent and experience a change of heart. They also give a person time to prepare spiritually to renew and keep his or her covenants again."

A person whose membership has been withdrawn lose certain privileges. They may not, among other things, partake of the Sacrament or pay tithing. 

"They are encouraged to attend Church meetings and activities if their conduct is orderly. Those whose Church membership has been withdrawn can be considered for readmission by baptism and confirmation. Usually, they first need to show genuine repentance for at least one year."

 

I am intrigued by the concept of rebaptisms in the LDS church. It seems, from my readings of LDS history that rebaptisms were much more common years ago than they are now. Am I wrong about that? If baptism is for the remission of sins in the LDS church, then is it efficacious only for past sins? It seems like there would be a lot of rebaptisms going on if it were needed for the remission of sins on a continual basis. I am uncertain how that works in the LDS church. In my world, baptisms having nothing to do with sinning. Therefore I am a bit uncertain how the connection works in the LDS church. 

I also am uncertain about this, but it seems like the constant talking about those who leave the LDS church seems to indicate that those who leave are fairly often angry. I wonder if that is an unfair generalization (something I greatly dislike when I see or hear it). It seems like there may be a lot of anger on the part of the one leaving and on the part of those who are “left behind” by the one leaving. I once went to a large outdoor LDS funeral where the  one providing the homily (a brother of the deceased) really railed at the deceased member's sons, who he thought were in danger of leaving "empty chairs" at the family dinner table in eternity. It turned the funeral service into a bit of a scolding about the lack of loyalty to the church of her sons. That injection of church stuff and personal and family stuff seems so much stronger in the LDS church than in any other church group I have known. Of course, again—I don't want to be generalizing. I teach that generalization is a precursor (among other things) to all the isms that so damage human relationships. Of course, sometimes I find myself guilty of the very thing I warn against! Best wishes to all. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

also am uncertain about this, but it seems like the constant talking about those who leave the LDS church seems to indicate that those who leave are fairly often angry. I wonder if that is an unfair generalization (something I greatly dislike when I see or hear it).

They are the most visible ones, especially since the internet gave them a very accessible pulpit and it became easier to find each other, which meant they had someone willing to listen without negative judgment (I don’t believe this is inherently bad, sometimes that can help the processing of change quicker to move away from anger, but sometimes it will reinforce and prolong it).

However, most who leave the Church just fade away quietly.  Hard to know if there is anger there or not.  

I think a lot depends on how much one invested and why one stopped attending.  If a loss of belief, was it because of new information about the Church (that may or may not be true) or was there a change in faith about God or something else.

Funerals at the local chapel….I have mixed feelings about the requirements to use chapels for funerals.  It is free and the ward generally provides a nice meal afterwards for family, so it can be a very great help for those who are grieving.  However, it is also seen as a missionary opportunity.  It is required—or at least was—to have a member of the bishopric speak and include details of the Plan of Salvation.  Of course we typically see the gospel as a great comfort for those who are grieving as we believe our vision of the afterlife is a beautiful, loving one, but not all share that view and not all speakers focus on the hope it offers.  Instead they might go the fear route and stress what will be lost if not faithful…and that might include judgment of others that is inappropriate, not only because they are grieving, but because no one knows their hearts save God.

As far as rebaptism, in the past they were done for multiple reasons.  Saints were often rebaptized when they reached Utah, during big periods of “retrenchment” or before attending the temple as a show of renewed commitment to the faith and God.  These were stopped in the 1890s (according to article below).

It was more consistently used for healing though, iirc.  This practice faded once elders’ blessings were emphasized, eventually completely eliminated, keeping baptism for the sole purpose of remission of sins and taking on the name of Christ, becoming a member of the Restored Church.  Checked the article and it says this one in the 1920s.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/rebaptism?lang=eng

Added:  I read a very good article on this a while back.  I think this is the one, but don’t have time to read.  Stapley is a good historian though, so I am going to risk it.  

https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/rebaptism-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints

Edited 8 hours ago by Calm

[Calm]

I went looking for guidelines on funerals and stumbled on this instead.  I love that the Chirch offers a pretty detailed guide on what is involved and needed after a death, not only providing how to advice on funerals and burials/cremations including getting help covering costs if qualified, but also on death certificates and what one will need them for.

https://icp.churchofjesuschrist.org/pages/funeral_srp

Just have to post it, I was so pleased to see it.

Edited 8 hours ago by Calm

[Calm]

Here are the guidelines on the funeral as well as assistance.  Note the emphasis on even funerals being a spiritual meeting and not being fully focused on the departed.  It is advised such a memorial can take place elsewhere.

I don’t know if new or not, but it does indicate if someone is not a member, the chapel may still be used following their usual patterns and the service may be led by the clergy of the deceased’s faith, but rituals of that faith or other organizations are not allowed in our meetinghouse.  This last surprises me a bit because bishops have invited nonmembers to hold their services in our chapels when their buildings have been destroyed and other crises.  I supposed it is better to have a general guideline as there might be some practices that could be problematic.

Quote

Funerals and Other Services for the Deceased

When a Church member dies, the bishop may offer to hold services to help comfort the living and pay respectful tribute to the deceased. Services for people who die vary according to religion, culture, tradition, and local laws. The following instructions can help bishops plan gospel-centered services for the deceased while respecting these variations.

29.5.1

General Principles

Death is an essential part of Heavenly Father’s plan of salvation (see Alma 12:24–27). Because of Jesus Christ, all will be resurrected. An important purpose of Church services for the deceased is to testify of the plan of salvation, particularly the Savior’s Atonement and Resurrection. These services should be dignified, spiritual experiences.

Church members should show respect for the practices of other religions at times of death. However, they should not join rituals or traditions that are contrary to the commandments or Church standards. Church leaders should not include rituals of other religions or groups in Church services for the deceased.

Members are counseled against practices or traditions that become a burden for the living. Such practices may include excessive travel, elaborate public announcements, payments to the family, prolonged feasts, and excessive anniversary celebrations.

Church members who take part in services for the deceased should not accept payment.

Church leaders and members obey local laws about what to do when someone dies.

29.5.2

Offering Assistance to the Family

As disciples of Jesus Christ, Church leaders and members “mourn with those that mourn … and comfort those that stand in need of comfort” (Mosiah 18:9). When a member dies, the bishop visits the family to give comfort. He may ask his counselors to accompany him. He also notifies the elders quorum and Relief Society presidents.

The bishop offers assistance from ward members, including the elders quorum and Relief Society. For example, ward members could:

• Notify friends and relatives.

• Help prepare an obituary.

• Help plan the funeral or other service.

• Help make mortuary and cemetery arrangements, as applicable.

• Dress the body for burial (see 38.5.10).

• Prepare meals.

29.5.3

Viewings (Where Customary)

Sometimes a viewing of the body of the deceased is held at a Church meetinghouse before the funeral service. Leaders should open the meetinghouse for funeral directors at least one hour before the viewing is scheduled to begin.

After the viewing, a family prayer may be offered if the family desires. The casket should be closed before the funeral service.

29.5.4

Funeral Services (Where Customary)

If a funeral for a member is held in a Church building, the bishop conducts it. If it is held in a home, at a mortuary, or at the graveside, the family may ask the bishop to conduct it. A bishop’s counselor may conduct if the bishop cannot. For information about services held in a Church building for a person who is not a member of the Church, see 29.5.6.

A funeral conducted by the bishop, whether in a Church building or elsewhere, is a Church meeting and a religious service. It should be a spiritual occasion. The bishop urges participants to maintain a spirit of reverence and dignity.

When a bishop conducts a funeral, he or one of his counselors oversees the planning of the service. He considers the wishes of the family, ensuring that the funeral is simple and dignified, with music and brief addresses centered on the gospel. The comfort offered by Jesus Christ because of His Atonement and Resurrection should be emphasized. Family members are not required to speak or otherwise participate in the service.

Funerals are an opportunity to pay tribute to the deceased. However, such tributes should not dominate the service. A special family gathering, separate from the funeral service, is usually a better setting if the family wants more time to share tributes or memories.

Video presentations should not be part of a funeral service held in a chapel.

Funerals should start on time. Generally, they should not last more than 1.5 hours, as a courtesy to those who attend.

If a member of the stake presidency, an Area Seventy in his area, or a General Authority attends the funeral, he presides. The person conducting consults him in advance and recognizes him during the service. The presiding officer should be invited to offer closing remarks if he desires.

Funeral services are not normally held on Sunday.

In some cases, the bishop can arrange with morticians to provide modest, respectable funeral and burial services at cost if expenses are paid from fast-offering funds.

For information about missionaries returning home to attend a funeral, see 24.6.2.7. For guidelines about streaming and recording funerals, see 29.7.

29.5.5

Burial or Cremation

Where possible, deceased members who were endowed should be buried or cremated in temple clothing. For information about temple burial clothing and dressing the dead, see 38.5.10.

If possible, a member of the bishopric accompanies the cortege to the cemetery. If the grave will be dedicated, he consults with the family and asks a Melchizedek Priesthood holder to perform the dedication. Instructions are provided in 18.16. If the family prefers, a graveside prayer can be offered instead.

For information about dedicating the place where a cremated member’s ashes are kept, see 18.16.2. For other guidelines about cremation, see 38.7.2.

29.5.6

Services for Those Who Are Not Members of the Church

The bishop may offer the use of a Church meetinghouse for the funeral service of a person who is not a member of the Church. If the deceased person belonged to another church, the service may usually be held in the manner prescribed by that church. If the family desires, the service may be conducted by clergy from that church, provided it is dignified and appropriate. However, rituals of other churches or organizations may not be performed in a Church meetinghouse.

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Calm

[Navidad]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

Quote

However, rituals of other churches or organizations may not be performed in a Church meetinghouse.

 

I wonder what is meant by "rituals" that cannot be performed in a Church meetinghouse? Is prayer a ritual? Is reciting The Lord's Prayer a ritual? 

My son passed away last December. We had a celebration of his life/funeral for him in our home. We cleaned out the living room and put around 65 chairs in it. He was cremated, but we did not yet have the ashes. We had tables with photos and mementos of his life out on the patio. They were very similar to what we have seen at every LDS funeral in the ward chapel. 

Of the sixty five or so attendees, I would guess forty-five were from the ward. That is almost half of the active members of the ward. The stake president and his wife came. The bishop and his wife came. The stake patriarch and his wife came. A former bishop of a Spanish-speaking ward came. He is also a historian friend. We had the Catholic municipal historian ( a dear friend) open the service with a prayer and a simple remembrance of Chris. My wife and I both shared our thoughts. One of our workers read a biography of Chris in both English and Spanish. Several officials from our municipality attended, along with other neighbors and friends. Our dear friend from the ward sang a song and played the guitar. We had a brief time for testimonies or remarks about Chris. Several people spoke and were very kind. He (our LDS friend) then closed in prayer. Both prayers (opening and closing) were beautiful. I was most pleased that the folks sat intermingled in the seats. There wasn't a segregation of Anglo Mormons and non-mormon Mexicans as there often is at events. It was in our home. I am aware of the LDS practice that the man of the house presides in his own home, whether LDS or not. I guess I presided. The service lasted an hour and five minutes. I was very pleased that we had a full house and that everyone seemed to be comfortable. The local ward leadership was all very kind. 

I say all of this to simply state that all did their best to make it positive for my wife and me. We had an interfaith service that honored both our son and the Lord. I am grateful to all who came and made it a kind and reassuring time. Just thought you might be interested in how we all got together to handle what would normally be a bit of an uncomfortable time here in our region. best, Navidad

[webbles]

6 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I wonder what is meant by "rituals" that cannot be performed in a Church meetinghouse? Is prayer a ritual? Is reciting The Lord's Prayer a ritual? 

I would think it is more elaborate than that.  Something like Eastern Orthodox's Panikhida - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_service_in_the_Eastern_Orthodox_Church.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

am aware of the LDS practice that the man of the house presides in his own home

I haven’t seen much of this.  My grandmother might tell my grandfather to say a blessing, but she oversaw everything.  Dad took charge, but he took charge everywhere.  Except if something bores him.  Mom always ran FHE iirc, we didn’t have it much. That was his personality.  

Whoever wants stuff to begin speaks up in our family now.  My husband likely has adhd and finds it difficult at times to get moving or make decisions. That’s not the kind of stuff that freezes me.

In his home, his mom did some stuff, his dad others.   That’s pretty much every other LDS home I have been in. 

Not saying all are like that.

I have had quite a few discussions on what presiding actually means.  Most answers are pretty vague or not realistic imo.