Tithing on after-tax investments

[A Wretched Soul]

Pondering tithing on after-tax investments, and came up with the following conclusions and questions. Thanks for any insights and feedback
1.    The church has been clear that you should tithe on income, not on increase. 
2.    Investment income (interest and dividends) should be tithed when it is “realized”.
a.    If investment income is left in an account to grow, it is only tithable after the income is “realized”.
b.    Investment expenses (such as brokerage, account, and advisor fees, and taxes on the investment) may be deducted when determining tithable investment income.
c.    Should inflation be factored in when calculating tithable investment income? For example: You invest $100 and it has a $4 gain, but because of inflation the $104 only has the purchasing power of the original $100. Is tithing due on the $4 change in value? (Obviously you can add many more zeros to these example numbers).
d.    Are increases in market value tithable if they are only due to inflation? For example: Inflation causes the market value of your real estate to increase, yet the  “intrinsic value” and purchasing power of the real estate hasn’t changed. When you sell the real estate is the increase in market value tithable, or do you factor  out inflation?
 

[JVW]

1 hour ago, A Wretched Soul said:

Pondering tithing on after-tax investments, and came up with the following conclusions and questions. Thanks for any insights and feedback
1.    The church has been clear that you should tithe on income, not on increase.

Really? I thought it was based on "increase"? What's the difference?

1 hour ago, A Wretched Soul said:

2.    Investment income (interest and dividends) should be tithed when it is “realized”.
a.    If investment income is left in an account to grow, it is only tithable after the income is “realized”.
b.    Investment expenses (such as brokerage, account, and advisor fees, and taxes on the investment) may be deducted when determining tithable investment income.
c.    Should inflation be factored in when calculating tithable investment income? For example: You invest $100 and it has a $4 gain, but because of inflation the $104 only has the purchasing power of the original $100. Is tithing due on the $4 change in value? (Obviously you can add many more zeros to these example numbers).
d.    Are increases in market value tithable if they are only due to inflation? For example: Inflation causes the market value of your real estate to increase, yet the  “intrinsic value” and purchasing power of the real estate hasn’t changed. When you sell the real estate is the increase in market value tithable, or do you factor out inflation?

Welcome to the forum "A Wretched Soul", glad to have you and I hope you have a wonderful experience in this forum. I bet you have all sorts of unique insights and opinions to share with us on a variety of church-related topics.

As far as your question here, it sounds like you're thinking too much. At the end of the day I figure just do what makes you feel good. If you want to personally calculate and asses inflation rates and use a bunch of Excel spreadsheets, VBA, and hire a few accountants to help you then go for it. Sounds like for some people that could make tithing a lot of fun to calculate. I personally do not pay tithing on investment increase because the money that I invest has already had tithing paid on it and I view investing in the stock market as equivalent to gambling and the church doesn't want anyone to pay tithing on gambling winnings. However, I do use money I make from the stock market to make charitable contributions to the church, so please don't view me as a heretic.

If you want to get technical, awhile back we had a discussion about whether or not the church used tithing to pay for City Creek and I believe that the result of that discussion was that if the church invests tithing money that the interest gained is not regarded as tithing money. It was a really interesting discussion, but it is 51 pages so read at your own peril. 

 

[rpn]

I don't think it is what the OP claims.  And I know that there have been at various times different counsel shared in countries where the way they tax would make ten percent entirely undoable.     We each have to figure out how to tithe on our own.   And it is not about money so it's not a bill.

 

[Calm]

Newly joined poster?  The spam issue has been solved?

Edited December 23, 2025 by Calm

[Pyreaux]

New! New member! It's a Christmas miracle!

I recall the Bishops just read the D&C to you and weren't allowed to interpret things such as net, or gross, or what exactly the "right amount" is. If your income was X, you pay Y, he may question if that is correct but won't go too deep. I know Retirement IRAs that came from money that was already tithed is off limits. Its not tithed twice.

[A Wretched Soul]

To answer JVW's question: •    On March 19, 1970 the First Presidency issued a statement on tithing: “members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.”
•    General Handbook of Instructions 34.3.1: “Tithing is the donation of one-tenth of one’s income to God’s Church (see Doctrine and Covenants 119:3–4; interest is understood to mean income). All members who have income should pay tithing.”

•    “Increase” is the growth of asset value, offset by expenditures. Assets may increase or decrease in value depending on events unrelated to one’s efforts, and there may be no “increase” at all if one consumes all that they earn.  Calculating tithing on "increase" is an Old Testament concept predating current economic structures and pay structures, before the world had monetary systems, banks, interest and inflation. 

•    “Income” is earned by one’s own labor or by investments.

I believe that the First Presidency’s use of the word “Income” is intentionally clarified and differentiated from “interest” and “increase”. To have chosen another definition would have incurred risks of lower tithing receipts. 

It seems proper to follow the direction of current church leadership and tithe on “income”, not the Old Testament way of tithing on “increase”, or the 1838 interpretation of tithing the “interest” earned on one’s net worth. Clearly tithing is due on money received for your work, and what your investments earn. "...

Inheritances and gifts are clearly "increases" but they aren't "income" derived from "capital or labor", so I don't know what to make of that. 

 

[JVW]

On 12/23/2025 at 10:05 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

To answer JVW's question: •    On March 19, 1970 the First Presidency issued a statement on tithing: “members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.”
•    General Handbook of Instructions 34.3.1: “Tithing is the donation of one-tenth of one’s income to God’s Church (see Doctrine and Covenants 119:3–4; interest is understood to mean income). All members who have income should pay tithing.”

•    “Increase” is the growth of asset value, offset by expenditures. Assets may increase or decrease in value depending on events unrelated to one’s efforts, and there may be no “increase” at all if one consumes all that they earn.  Calculating tithing on "increase" is an Old Testament concept predating current economic structures and pay structures, before the world had monetary systems, banks, interest and inflation. 

•    “Income” is earned by one’s own labor or by investments.

I believe that the First Presidency’s use of the word “Income” is intentionally clarified and differentiated from “interest” and “increase”. To have chosen another definition would have incurred risks of lower tithing receipts. 

It seems proper to follow the direction of current church leadership and tithe on “income”, not the Old Testament way of tithing on “increase”, or the 1838 interpretation of tithing the “interest” earned on one’s net worth. Clearly tithing is due on money received for your work, and what your investments earn. "...

Inheritances and gifts are clearly "increases" but they aren't "income" derived from "capital or labor", so I don't know what to make of that. 

 

Well dang. And here I thought that tithing was the "easy commandment" to keep perfectly (as the cultural church sentiment seems to be). Looks like I suck at paying tithing and I'm probably going to hell. Hm...

[Kenngo1969]

@A Wretched Soul Poor guy!  Sucks to be you, I guess!   Oh, well!

Cough-cough-[Troll!]-cough-cough-cough!

P.S.: In the [unlikely] event that you should happen to see this, I hope you had a Merry Christmas!

Edited January 1 by Kenngo1969

[InCognitus]

On 12/25/2025 at 4:11 AM, Kenngo1969 said:

@A Wretched Soul Poor guy!  Sucks to be you, I guess!   Oh, well!

Cough-cough-[Troll!]-cough-cough-cough!

I don't know about that. 

I'm sure lots of people have pondered the questions posed in the opening post.  But with that said, there's not going to be any kind of direct answer to such questions, as the official statement from the church says, "No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.”

[MustardSeed]

As with everything else in life, do what seems right to you and God, be honest with yourself, and it will all work out.

Edited December 29, 2025 by MustardSeed

[3DOP]

Is it true that if I become LDS I need to add up an estimated value to the gifts I receive for Christmas and tithe on that? If yes, I suppose I would also need to tithe on the cost of shipping? 

Heh.

TitheDOP

[longview]

1 hour ago, 3DOP said:

Is it true that if I become LDS I need to add up an estimated value to the gifts I receive for Christmas and tithe on that? If yes, I suppose I would also need to tithe on the cost of shipping? 

Heh.

TitheDOP

No need to complicate things. Everybody is gifting each other. Wipes the slate clean.

[The Nehor]

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

Pondering tithing on after-tax investments, and came up with the following conclusions and questions. Thanks for any insights and feedback
1.    The church has been clear that you should tithe on income, not on increase. 

Except that is not what scripture says (or meant).

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

2.    Investment income (interest and dividends) should be tithed when it is “realized”.

If you haven’t found a huge loophole yet you obviously aren’t megarich and are one of those filthy poors.

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

a.    If investment income is left in an account to grow, it is only tithable after the income is “realized”.

Same.

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

b.    Investment expenses (such as brokerage, account, and advisor fees, and taxes on the investment) may be deducted when determining tithable investment income.

Can I charge myself advisor fees?

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

c.    Should inflation be factored in when calculating tithable investment income? For example: You invest $100 and it has a $4 gain, but because of inflation the $104 only has the purchasing power of the original $100. Is tithing due on the $4 change in value? (Obviously you can add many more zeros to these example numbers).

Depends on if the price of gold has gone up or down an equivalent amount. Kolob is still on the gold standard.

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

d.    Are increases in market value tithable if they are only due to inflation? For example: Inflation causes the market value of your real estate to increase, yet the  “intrinsic value” and purchasing power of the real estate hasn’t changed. When you sell the real estate is the increase in market value tithable, or do you factor  out inflation?
 

Only on Tuesdays.

[blackstrap]

Oh for the good old days of the " United Order "  😁

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, blackstrap said:

Oh for the good old days of the " United Order "  😁

It is either that or join the Oneida Perfectionists.

[Kenngo1969]

On 12/25/2025 at 4:11 AM, Kenngo1969 said:

@A Wretched Soul Poor guy!  Sucks to be you, I guess!   Oh, well!

Cough-cough-[Troll!]-cough-cough-cough!

 

On 12/28/2025 at 6:52 PM, InCognitus said:

I don't know about that. 

I'm sure lots of people have pondered the questions posed in the opening post.  But with that said, there's not going to be any kind of direct answer to such questions, as the official statement from the church says, "No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.”

Sincere seeker after truth ... who hasn't been back to engage his interlocutors since lobbing the bomb, flooring the accelerator, and exiting the scene of the drive-by bombing at high speed?  Yeeeaaahhh  ... color me doubtful on that one.  @A Wretched Soul, if I'm wrong, and if you can at least work up enough [fake? ] umbrage to return to this thread and tell me I'm wrong, I'll gladly apologize, but ... I ain't holdin' my breath!

[Amulek]

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

Pondering tithing on after-tax investments, and came up with the following conclusions and questions. Thanks for any insights and feedback

I appreciate the careful thought behind these questions, but I think several of your conclusions rest on assumptions that the Church has not actually made, and that move tithing into a level of accounting complexity that Church leaders have consistently avoided.

Let's discuss them, one by one:

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

1.    The church has been clear that you should tithe on income, not on increase. 

The Church has deliberately not provided a technical definition of “income” versus “increase.” The only authoritative guidance is the First Presidency statement that members should pay tithing on their “increase”, later paraphrased as “income”, and that the determination is ultimately a matter of personal conscience between the member and the Lord.

Church leaders have repeatedly resisted defining income in accounting or economic terms. Any claim that the Church has been “clear” on a specific definition goes beyond what has actually been taught.

 

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

2.    Investment income (interest and dividends) should be tithed when it is “realized”.

This is a reasonable personal approach, but it is not a doctrinal requirement. “Realization” is an accounting concept, not a revealed one. Some members tithe when income is received, others when withdrawn, others annually on net worth increases. All of these approaches can be consistent with Church teachings.

The Church has intentionally avoided binding members to professional financial standards.

 

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

a.    If investment income is left in an account to grow, it is only tithable after the income is “realized”.

Again, this is a choice, not a rule. A member could reasonably consider reinvested dividends as income when credited, just as wages automatically deposited into a bank account are still income even if untouched.

The key issue is not whether funds are spent, but whether the member considers them part of their increase.

 

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

b.    Investment expenses (such as brokerage, account, and advisor fees, and taxes on the investment) may be deducted when determining tithable investment income.

This is an area where members often differ, and Church leaders have not prescribed a method. Some tithe on gross income, some on net. Both have long-standing precedent in the Church.

Treating tithing as a net-profit calculation is a modern financial framing, not a revealed requirement.

 

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

c.    Should inflation be factored in when calculating tithable investment income? For example: You invest $100 and it has a $4 gain, but because of inflation the $104 only has the purchasing power of the original $100. Is tithing due on the $4 change in value? (Obviously you can add many more zeros to these example numbers).

This line of reasoning imports macroeconomic theory into a spiritual law that has - to my knowledge - never been administered that way. The Church does not ask members to adjust their wages, raises, or bonuses for inflation before paying tithing.

If inflation adjustments were required, tithing would become impractical for ordinary members and impossible to standardize - precisely the outcome Church leaders have avoided.

 

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

d.    Are increases in market value tithable if they are only due to inflation? For example: Inflation causes the market value of your real estate to increase, yet the  “intrinsic value” and purchasing power of the real estate hasn’t changed. When you sell the real estate is the increase in market value tithable, or do you factor  out inflation?

This again assumes that “intrinsic value” and “purchasing power” are the correct lenses for defining increase. Historically, they have not been. When members sell appreciated property, most simply consider the proceeds as part of their increase without attempting to decompose the gain into inflationary versus real components.

Nothing in Church teaching suggests members are expected to perform such analyses.

The consistent pattern in Church teachings is simplicity, personal accountability, and trust. When tithing becomes an exercise in inflation modeling, expense allocation, and economic theory, it has moved well beyond what the Lord or His prophets have required.

Members are free to adopt whatever honest method helps them feel they are paying a full tithe, but we should be careful not to present personal financial frameworks as though they were Church doctrine.

 

[Calm]

12 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

hasn't been back to engage his interlocutors since lobbing the bomb, flooring the accelerator, and exiting the scene of the drive-by bombing at high speed? 

They did come back the next day for the second post, but I am more prone to your interpretation now it’s been a week since then, plus of course this one line below.

Quote

To have chosen another definition would have incurred risks of lower tithing receipts. 

Still maybe they just got busy with the holidays.

Edited December 30, 2025 by Calm

[3DOP]

On 12/29/2025 at 9:25 PM, longview said:

No need to complicate things. Everybody is gifting each other. Wipes the slate clean.

Okay, so we get to deduct the gifts we give from our tithing? Brilliant. Who would have thought? This is great news. So in effect, our gifts ARE tithing? That helps, with like 40 children, grandchildren, godchildren, in-laws, and random gifts we have tithed a lot more than we should have over the years. Now the Church owes me! I am probably good for the next twenty years!

TitheDOP, who is kidding, but who when very young tithed on gifts received without considering gifts given. The things you do at 29, you just shake your head at that kid 40 years later. We were broke, so friends would do free mechanic work on my car. Of course we tithed 10% of what it would have cost at a shop. Doesn’t  everybody?

[longview]

16 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

TitheDOP, who is kidding, but who when very young tithed on gifts received without considering gifts given. The things you do at 29, you just shake your head at that kid 40 years later. We were broke, so friends would do free mechanic work on my car. Of course we tithed 10% of what it would have cost at a shop. Doesn’t  everybody?

Christmas gifting is part of the Joy of the Season. We will NOT "render to Caesar" this jubilee season tradition. So don't even TRY to bring in accounting techniques. Do NOT even think it.

Besides, in  the LDS Church, kids do not pay tithing until they get baptized and formally become members of the Kingdom of God on Earth. Simple is better, right?

[Kenngo1969]

Paging @A Wretched Soul!   "Bueller?!  Bueller?!"

Edited January 1 by Kenngo1969

[bearhoof]

On 12/22/2025 at 12:12 PM, JVW said:

 the church doesn't want anyone to pay tithing on gambling winnings.

 

I have been unable to find any documentation on this. Source?

[Calm]

2 hours ago, bearhoof said:

I have been unable to find any documentation on this. Source?

Pretty sure it’s one of those unwritten rules that has been passed around a lot, including from some higher ups according to reports.  I have been hearing this rule since I was a kid, but don’t remember ever seeing it in writing and iirc, we have had discussions on here before about it.

If it’s not in writing, but passed around in training by word of mouth, seems more like a tradition than an official policy.

Since leadership/SLC doesn’t use anything to verify amount of income one gets and as far as I know there is no way for them to reject tithing if it’s submitted online, seems like the only way it would get noticed is if your bishop heard somehow you won the lottery or whatever and then they took it upon themselves to counsel you about it.

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/57283-lottery-winnings/

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/75917-if-i-won-the-lottery-would-the-church-accept-tithing-on-that/

 

Edited January 2 by Calm

[Kenngo1969]

On 12/22/2025 at 12:12 PM, JVW said:

... I personally do not pay tithing on investment increase because the money that I invest has already had tithing paid on it and I view investing in the stock market as equivalent to gambling and the church doesn't want anyone to pay tithing on gambling winnings. ...

 

2 hours ago, bearhoof said:

I have been unable to find any documentation on this. Source?

 

39 minutes ago, Calm said:

Pretty sure it’s one of those unwritten rules that has been passed around a lot, including from some higher ups according to reports.  I have been hearing this rule since I was a kid, but don’t remember ever seeing it in writing and iirc, we have had discussions on here before about it.

If it’s not in writing, but passed around in training by word of mouth, seems more like a tradition than an official policy.

 

If my bishop doesn't ask, I won't tell.    (I don't know what kind of specific training bishops receive on things like this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the only instruction they get is that the only question they should ask is, "Are you a full tithe payer?" and the only answers they should accept are, respectively, "Yes," or "No.")

[Pyreaux]

On 12/22/2025 at 11:54 AM, A Wretched Soul said:

1.    The church has been clear that you should tithe on income, not on increase. 

Source? The word used in the scriptures is "Increase" or "Interest." If you are a farmer, you did not tithe every seed you harvested. You must set aside seeds for next year (capital), feed for the oxen (operational costs), and the cost of the tools. Only the portion that is "profit" is the part that actually increased your net worth after the costs of production is considered, your "gains." So even with a modern 9-to-5 job, the Church doesn't 'mandate' a specific calculation. If a member feels that their 'increase' is what they have left after taxes and the costs of living, they can declare themselves a Full Tithe Payer, and no Bishop is allowed to tell them otherwise.

Edited January 2 by Pyreaux