Netflix Show Re: Mountain Meadows (and Provo River Massacre?)

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Or glorify it.  Or become gratuitous.

Exactly. 

[Calm]

27 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I guess in the main, I don't really trust modern entertainment companies to have noble intentions when trafficking in graphic violence.

Amen to that. 
 

Given the violence seems to be advertising as entertainment in this series rather than being educational, I definitely don’t trust this portrayal is going to be appropriate for telling the actual history as far as we know it. 

[OGHoosier]

Looks like we're already running up some gratuitous historical errors. Gee whiz, imagine my shock. 

It's gonna be a little rough until the craze quiets down. 

[Rain]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I actually approve of the graphic violence. Sanitized TV and movie violence downplay how horrible conflict can be. It should be uncomfortable to watch.

I think that is really going to depend on who is watching and how much they have been exposed to.  I get uncomfortable at pretty much any violence.

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, Rain said:

I think that is really going to depend on who is watching and how much they have been exposed to.  I get uncomfortable at pretty much any violence.

Yes, I don’t watch realistic violence because it makes me ill thinking of how much suffering victims in real life go through.  I don’t need it to motivate me to hate the violence.

[blackstrap]

Much of history is filled with violence. I wonder, if humans are made in the image of God ...

[sunstoned]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Yes, I don’t watch realistic violence because it makes me ill thinking of how much suffering victims in real life go through.  I don’t need it to motivate me to hate the violence.

I agree. I find myself feeling bad for the victims. This is one of the reasons I don't watch violent movies anymore.  This includes war movies. 

[The Nehor]

12 hours ago, smac97 said:

I'm sort of ambivalent about this.  Part of me thinks that pervasive graphic violence on TV and in movies has a desensitizing effect, such that all the blood 'n gore makes us less attuned to "how horrible conflict can be."

Horror movies.  Zombie movies / TV shows.  Game of Thrones / House of the Dragon / The Boys / The Witcher / The Wire / Boardwalk Empire.  I don't think these things are showing us "graphic violence" with noble intentions, but rather to garner controversy, gin up social media attention, and - of course - make money.  I can't help but wonder if the graphic violence is sowing seeds of indifference to and disregard of the real-world effects of violence, perhaps even to the extent of wanting to foment cynicism and misanthropy.

Consider also "graphic" depictions of, say, sexual assault or abuse.  Of women.  Of children.  Are non-graphic depictions of this in entertainment media "sanitiz{ing} ... how horrible" such evil behavior is?  Or might it be that graphic depictions of this in entertainment media are often gratuitous?  Might it actually result in desensitization?  Or even worse, titillation?

I guess in the main, I don't really trust modern entertainment companies to have noble intentions when trafficking in graphic violence.

Thanks,

-Smac

It depends on how it goes about this. Some gore movies make it into a joke. In my experience very few graphically violent combat scenes are realistic. When they are realistic they tend to be shocking and aren’t appealing. It tends to hit hard. In most shows someone is shot and falls over dead and there might be some red dye. Very few shows turn the person into hamburger which is what a lot of combat deaths end up looking like. This is also how school shootings often look. Often identification has to be done by clothing since the body is unrecognizable. Part of me thinks we hide this too much.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, blackstrap said:

Much of history is filled with violence. I wonder, if humans are made in the image of God ...

“Woe to the Assyrian, the rod of my anger, in whose hand is the club of my wrath!“

Okay God, put down the big scary conquering army before someone gets hurt.

[MiserereNobis]

On 10/31/2024 at 1:43 AM, The Nehor said:

It depends on how it goes about this. Some gore movies make it into a joke. In my experience very few graphically violent combat scenes are realistic. When they are realistic they tend to be shocking and aren’t appealing. It tends to hit hard. In most shows someone is shot and falls over dead and there might be some red dye. Very few shows turn the person into hamburger which is what a lot of combat deaths end up looking like. This is also how school shootings often look. Often identification has to be done by clothing since the body is unrecognizable. Part of me thinks we hide this too much.

Saving Private Ryan seemed to balance this well, so that the realistic combat violence was able to hit hard yet allow the viewer to continue to watch and be hit hard.

Same with Schindler's List and the holocaust.

[smac97]

A new trailer has dropped:

Raspy-voiced Man: "There's a war brewing in this territory.  Brigham Young trying to make his kingdom.  President's trying to stomp it out.  If these natives here don't murder ya, you got the Wasatch Mountain Range.  Grizzlies, wolves and riled-up Mormons."
...|
Mormon Fanatic with a Whip: "We are the chosen!"  {Lashes whip.}
...
Evil-looking Brigham Young: "Some day, this entire American continent will be ours."

Thanks,

-Smac
 

 

 

 

[sunstoned]

 

It sounds well-researched.

[Kenngo1969]

On 10/30/2024 at 12:39 AM, Calm said:

... Wonder if they bothered to read Turkey’s book.

 

Again, I wish I knew how to contact the good Brother Turley!  I wonder how big of a kick he would get out of what AutoCorrect does with his name?

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Again, I wish I knew how to contact the good Brother Turley!  I wonder how big of a kick he would get out of what AutoCorrect does with his name?

I am getting so annoyed by that…

[manol]

3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Again, I wish I knew how to contact the good Brother Turley!  I wonder how big of a kick he would get out of what AutoCorrect does with his name?

I heard that the guy who invented AutoCorrect just died.  His funnel is tomato. 

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I am getting so annoyed by that…

Sorry!    Can you add "Turley" to your dictionary, maybe?  

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Sorry!    Can you add "Turley" to your dictionary, maybe?  

Hopefully the latest IOS update has solved the way too long lasting disaster that was my autocorrect and predictive text, etc.  Google tells me I was not the only one suffering.  Since the update occured, it seems much better.  Let’s test it.

Turley

No problem there.  Will be interesting to see what happens next time his name comes up.  It was never a problem that I remember before the update autocorrect disaster. 

Edited December 14, 2024 by Calm

[blackstrap]

Just reading Turley et al ' s book. Makes me sad , really sad , as I read the list of names of those killed and how many were under 16 at the time. The book does do a good job in laying out the historical and societal background around the massacre and all the actual conspiracies between the militia / Mormon leaders and the natives. 

I don't hold out much hope that the movie will get much accurate as they rarely do. It would take a 12 part series with 90 minute episodes to even come close.

[webbles]

Around the 0:44 mark in the trailer, it looks like it is showing an attack on a wagon train.  The wagons are circled and people are shooting.  But it doesn't look like a Native American attack.  If that is how they are going to portray the Massacre, it is really bad.  The attackers never revealed themselves in an all-out attack.  The Massacre happened under a white flag when they were "escorting" the defenders away from the train.  That's what makes it really a Massacre.  The fact that the defenders thought they were being protected and then their protectors turn on them and kill them.

[The Nehor]

On 12/11/2024 at 9:41 PM, smac97 said:

Evil-looking Brigham Young: "Some day, this entire American continent will be ours."

No evil laugh? You gotta have an evil laugh!