How current beliefs stem from such destruction.

[Tacenda]

I came upon this today and it struck me how throughout time it really is man made most of what some believe is from God. How do we delineate them to have a true understanding. I believe the only proof I have of a God is the earth. I don't believe in most man made scripture. I see a lot of harm from men's visions or teachings. How many have to die in the name of religion that still happens to this day? Or how many people have to be harmed in the name of God or people having so called visions. 

Edited out my original c/p about a certain religion. And that was uncalled for and I apologize to many who were offended.

ETA again: Calm shared this post on reddit, and it's now getting comments that discount the list I shared. 

 

Edited May 22, 2024 by Tacenda

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I came upon this today and it struck me how throughout time it really is man made most of what some believe is from God. How do we delineate them to have a true understanding. I believe the only proof I have of a God is the earth. I don't believe in most man made scripture. I see a lot of harm from men's visions or teachings. How many have to die in the name of religion that still happens to this day? Or how many people have to be harmed in the name of God or people having so called visions. 

Not to just pick on the Catholics, but this is what I read and I don't know how true.

Did you know that :

THE CREATOR OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS THE ROMAN EMPEROR FLAVIUS VALERIO CONSTANTINO II, IT WAS CALLED THE UNIVERSAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH.

In 325, in the Council of Nicea, Constantine the Great created the Catholic Church after a genocide of 45,000 Christians, where he tortured them to renounce reincarnation. At the same time, the religious books from all the villages of the empire are collected and thus the BIBLE is created. In 327, Constantine known as the emperor of Rome, orders Jerome to translate the Vulgata version into Latin, changing the Jewish names themselves and adulterating the scriptures.

In 325 at the Council of Nicea they invented the Divine Trinity.

In 431, the cult of the VIRGIN was invented.

PURGATORY was invented in 594.

In 610, the title of POPE was invented.

In 788, worship of pagan deities was imposed.

In 995, the meaning of kadosh ( paragraph) was changed to saint.

In 1079, the celibate of priests was imposed, a totally Catholic word.

In 1090, the Rosary is imposed.

In 1184 the Inquisition was carried out.

In 1190 indulgences are sold.

In 1215, the confession was imposed on priests.

In 1216, Pope Innocent III was invented, the tale of the terror of bread (a god of Greek mythology), which transforms into human flesh.

In 1311, children were baptized.

In 1439 the non-existent PURGATORY is dogmatized.

Immaculate Conception was invented in 1854

In 1870, the absurdity of an infallible pope is imposed, he’s never wrong.

There are over 2500 pagan things invented by this religion to enslave humanity with Christianity.

Religions and their Gods were created as means of MANIPULATION and BUSINESS. In the EVOLUTION of the human being we need to GET RID of these means of manipulation.

Although slowly human beings are in the era of AWAKENING, young people are LESS RELIGIOUS every day than they were two generations ago and Catholic religion will be at its end.

Everything will be part of our EVOLUTION.

It’s up to you to continue believing what you now believe is the absolute truth, if you haven’t questioned yourself, do it and you will see that all religions are man’s invention.

I always try to remind myself that just because something can be used for evil does not mean that it is evil in its basic form. Marriage, to me, is a perfect example. I believe that marriage is of God, but I also know that men and women have used marriage to bring about horrific or evil ends all throughout history. And I recognize that for most of history marriage could be especially cruel to women specifically.

I don’t believe that whoever wrote that part you quoted has any real understanding of God or religion so I don’t personally find his conclusions very valuable overall.

Edited May 21, 2024 by bluebell

[blackstrap]

Anti- Catholic tracts should be kept off the forum.

That said ,deaths caused by religious thinking pales by comparison with deaths caused by followers of atheistic philosophy.

[CV75]

49 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I came upon this today and it struck me how throughout time it really is man made most of what some believe is from God. How do we delineate them to have a true understanding. I believe the only proof I have of a God is the earth. I don't believe in most man made scripture. I see a lot of harm from men's visions or teachings. How many have to die in the name of religion that still happens to this day? Or how many people have to be harmed in the name of God or people having so called visions. 

Not to just pick on the Catholics, but this is what I read and I don't know how true.

Did you know that :

THE CREATOR OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS THE ROMAN EMPEROR FLAVIUS VALERIO CONSTANTINO II, IT WAS CALLED THE UNIVERSAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH.

In 325, in the Council of Nicea, Constantine the Great created the Catholic Church after a genocide of 45,000 Christians, where he tortured them to renounce reincarnation. At the same time, the religious books from all the villages of the empire are collected and thus the BIBLE is created. In 327, Constantine known as the emperor of Rome, orders Jerome to translate the Vulgata version into Latin, changing the Jewish names themselves and adulterating the scriptures.

In 325 at the Council of Nicea they invented the Divine Trinity.

In 431, the cult of the VIRGIN was invented.

PURGATORY was invented in 594.

In 610, the title of POPE was invented.

In 788, worship of pagan deities was imposed.

In 995, the meaning of kadosh ( paragraph) was changed to saint.

In 1079, the celibate of priests was imposed, a totally Catholic word.

In 1090, the Rosary is imposed.

In 1184 the Inquisition was carried out.

In 1190 indulgences are sold.

In 1215, the confession was imposed on priests.

In 1216, Pope Innocent III was invented, the tale of the terror of bread (a god of Greek mythology), which transforms into human flesh.

In 1311, children were baptized.

In 1439 the non-existent PURGATORY is dogmatized.

Immaculate Conception was invented in 1854

In 1870, the absurdity of an infallible pope is imposed, he’s never wrong.

There are over 2500 pagan things invented by this religion to enslave humanity with Christianity.

Religions and their Gods were created as means of MANIPULATION and BUSINESS. In the EVOLUTION of the human being we need to GET RID of these means of manipulation.

Although slowly human beings are in the era of AWAKENING, young people are LESS RELIGIOUS every day than they were two generations ago and Catholic religion will be at its end.

Everything will be part of our EVOLUTION.

It’s up to you to continue believing what you now believe is the absolute truth, if you haven’t questioned yourself, do it and you will see that all religions are man’s invention.

Re: "all religions are man’s invention" -- note to self, go see the new Planet of the Apes flick!

[LoudmouthMormon]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Did you know that :

THE CREATOR OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS THE ROMAN EMPEROR FLAVIUS VALERIO CONSTANTINO II, IT WAS CALLED THE UNIVERSAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH.

In 325, in the Council of Nicea, Constantine the Great created the Catholic Church after a genocide of 45,000 Christians, where he tortured them to renounce reincarnation. At the same time, the religious books from all the villages of the empire are collected and thus the BIBLE is created. In 327, Constantine known as the emperor of Rome, orders Jerome to translate the Vulgata version into Latin, changing the Jewish names themselves and adulterating the scriptures.

In 325 at the Council of Nicea they invented the Divine Trinity.

In 431, the cult of the VIRGIN was invented.

PURGATORY was invented in 594.

In 610, the title of POPE was invented.

In 788, worship of pagan deities was imposed.

In 995, the meaning of kadosh ( paragraph) was changed to saint.

In 1079, the celibate of priests was imposed, a totally Catholic word.

In 1090, the Rosary is imposed.

In 1184 the Inquisition was carried out.

In 1190 indulgences are sold.

In 1215, the confession was imposed on priests.

In 1216, Pope Innocent III was invented, the tale of the terror of bread (a god of Greek mythology), which transforms into human flesh.

In 1311, children were baptized.

In 1439 the non-existent PURGATORY is dogmatized.

Immaculate Conception was invented in 1854

In 1870, the absurdity of an infallible pope is imposed, he’s never wrong.

There are over 2500 pagan things invented by this religion to enslave humanity with Christianity.

Religions and their Gods were created as means of MANIPULATION and BUSINESS. In the EVOLUTION of the human being we need to GET RID of these means of manipulation.

Although slowly human beings are in the era of AWAKENING, young people are LESS RELIGIOUS every day than they were two generations ago and Catholic religion will be at its end.

Everything will be part of our EVOLUTION.

It’s up to you to continue believing what you now believe is the absolute truth, if you haven’t questioned yourself, do it and you will see that all religions are man’s invention.

Somewhere on TikTok, there should be a Dan Maclellan video responding to this, with his scholarly blend of "that's false and here's why" and "that's true but you miss the point".

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Not to just pick on the Catholics, but this is what I read and I don't know how true.

Tacenda, maybe you could research claims like this before you post them.  This is an anti-Catholic list, mixing some truth with some lies and presenting it in such a way to maximize shock.

If you have a question about anti-Catholic or any anti religion list like this, feel free to PM me about it rather than give it more publicity, though this means we can take the opportunity to disprove it where wrong.

1) Translating scriptures so more people can read them is hardly an evil thing.  The Vulgate is in the Latin the common people talked at that time.  Only later when Latin died out did the Vulgate become something one had to be educated in to read.

2) the Bible was not created by just mashing all the religious books of the time together or even all of the Christian books together.  I believe Constantine was dead by the time the Bible was collected together.

https://uscatholic.org/articles/201809/who-decided-what-books-are-in-the-bible/

3) The claim of an infallible pope being never wrong is bogus.  A pope’s infallibility is restricted to a very, very limited scope, when he speaks “ex cathedra” (from the Chair) or in an ecumenical council.  This is in part protective because it prevents powerful popes from reshaping the Church however they want because past popes’ ex cathedra statements cannot be tossed aside.  In essence, imo, it is a recognition that popes can make mistakes that led to a belief that there needed to be a ‘set in stone’ collection of certain laws or doctrines, limited to when the pope was speaking on faith and morals.  Perhaps the Catholics here can let me know if I have missed the point.   

Quote

In his encyclical ‘Lumen Gentium’ (1964), during Vatican II (1962-1965), Paul VI (1963-1978) defined papal infallibility more clearly: when a pope speaks EITHER ‘ex Cathedra’ OR in an ecumenical council on a matter of faith and morals. So almost all pronouncements by popes are not infallible (e.g. on contraception), but nevertheless should be taken seriously since the pope is St Peter’s successor.

So far there are only two papal statements of infallibility, the Immaculate Conception of Mary and the Assumption of Mary.  For anti Catholics to go ballistic over infallibility shows they don’t really know or understand it or they don’t care and will outright lie in order to get people to hate Catholicism.  
 

4) “pagan” means not of the main or recognized religions or an alternative definition is a religious faith that is not Christian, Jewish, or Islamic and since the Roman Catholic Church has been the largest Christian religion for most of the Christian era, labeling beliefs original to it as “pagan” is not accurate and is done for shock value.

I came across this site on a historian reddit list asking them for their opinion on the antiCatholic list, so I won’t do anymore analysis since it’s already been done.     Though I can’t say whether it’s accurate or not, I suspect respondents are keeping each other relatively on target.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1bjdura/does_this_popular_post_have_any_historical/

 

Edited May 21, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Not to just pick on the Catholics, but this is what I read and I don't know how true.

Should you really draw conclusions about faith and religion and God based on lists or sites that use lies and are intended to shock you?  What is the purpose behind such things?  Not to help you find truth.

You can be pretty sure any list of events and ideas that is created to shock is the equivalent of malicious gossip.  You wouldn’t feel good about gossiping in this way about your neighbours, the same standard should be applied to our religious neighbours throughout the world.

Edited May 21, 2024 by Calm

[Anonymous Mormon]

6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I came upon this today and it struck me how throughout time it really is man made most of what some believe is from God. How do we delineate them to have a true understanding. I believe the only proof I have of a God is the earth. I don't believe in most man made scripture. I see a lot of harm from men's visions or teachings. How many have to die in the name of religion that still happens to this day? Or how many people have to be harmed in the name of God or people having so called visions. 

Not to just pick on the Catholics, but this is what I read and I don't know how true.

Did you know that :

THE CREATOR OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS THE ROMAN EMPEROR FLAVIUS VALERIO CONSTANTINO II, IT WAS CALLED THE UNIVERSAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH.

In 325, in the Council of Nicea, Constantine the Great created the Catholic Church after a genocide of 45,000 Christians, where he tortured them to renounce reincarnation. At the same time, the religious books from all the villages of the empire are collected and thus the BIBLE is created. In 327, Constantine known as the emperor of Rome, orders Jerome to translate the Vulgata version into Latin, changing the Jewish names themselves and adulterating the scriptures.

In 325 at the Council of Nicea they invented the Divine Trinity.

In 431, the cult of the VIRGIN was invented.

PURGATORY was invented in 594.

In 610, the title of POPE was invented.

In 788, worship of pagan deities was imposed.

In 995, the meaning of kadosh ( paragraph) was changed to saint.

In 1079, the celibate of priests was imposed, a totally Catholic word.

In 1090, the Rosary is imposed.

In 1184 the Inquisition was carried out.

In 1190 indulgences are sold.

In 1215, the confession was imposed on priests.

In 1216, Pope Innocent III was invented, the tale of the terror of bread (a god of Greek mythology), which transforms into human flesh.

In 1311, children were baptized.

In 1439 the non-existent PURGATORY is dogmatized.

Immaculate Conception was invented in 1854

In 1870, the absurdity of an infallible pope is imposed, he’s never wrong.

There are over 2500 pagan things invented by this religion to enslave humanity with Christianity.

Religions and their Gods were created as means of MANIPULATION and BUSINESS. In the EVOLUTION of the human being we need to GET RID of these means of manipulation.

Although slowly human beings are in the era of AWAKENING, young people are LESS RELIGIOUS every day than they were two generations ago and Catholic religion will be at its end.

Everything will be part of our EVOLUTION.

It’s up to you to continue believing what you now believe is the absolute truth, if you haven’t questioned yourself, do it and you will see that all religions are man’s invention.

@Tacenda - When I feel this way - where my logical brain kicks in and I just doubt everything about religion - the only thing left I can do is cling to Hope (along with a sprinkling of faith & charity).

More on that, but first, logically I know that religion is not the sole way for people to harm each other. The societies and people who have tried to eliminate religion from their communities have had at least the same evils as the societies that had religion (and many times much worse). Getting rid of religion, is not some magic pill that cures human selfishness and eliminates evil from the human condition. 

Also, logically I know that all good things can be used for evil. And selfish, conniving men will use whatever good things they can to con and take advantage of others. Much like my best strengths can also become greatest weaknesses, everything lovely, and good in this world can be used for evil.

Personally, if I take away my religion, I am not left with anything except a world where there is no right or wrong. Where everyone can be as nice or evil as they want and it doesn't matter. A world where my life and existence doesn't matter beyond to a few people being sad if I am gone. When I look through this worldview, I decide that I may as well just fill my life with as much pleasure as I can. And when I do that, I inevitably am selfish and miserable.

But, this is where hope kicks in:
 

Quote

“Whoso believeth in God might with surety hope for a better world, yea, even a place at the right hand of God, which hope cometh of faith, maketh an anchor to the souls of men, which would make them sure and steadfast, always abounding in good works, being led to glorify God.”

Quote

“What is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise.”

 

I can have hope in my life that there is a God. This hope makes me seek Charity. It makes me strive to live what Christ taught on the Sermon on the Mount. It makes me seek the welfare of others. It gives my life beauty and meaning and purpose. It fills me with joy.

As I live my life on this hope, I feel God's love. I feel the holy ghost. I feel like this:

Quote

Ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand. O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light, is good, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good;

I feel this light in my life. And for me this is real, just as real as the other emotions and feelings I have. And I choose to have faith that this light comes from God. I stop worrying about things like the book of Abraham, or a policy change, or whether the pope is infallible, or if someone in the 1600s used religion as an excuse to kill others, or if the temple came from masonic rites, etc.. 

Instead I try to have faith, and with that faith I strive for charity: loving my enemies, serving my neighbors, eliminating resentment, turning the other cheek and forgiving others, and living the kind of life a true follower of Christ should live.

At the end of the day maybe my Faith, Hope, and Charity are misplaced. Maybe that guy you quoted is right and religion is man's invention and when we die there is nothing. But in the meantime, oh what marvelous light I have in my life. My soul is swelled, light has spouted, and the good is discernible. Love fills my soul (I'd dare to call it the love of God). And I am living my life in peace, and joy.

Hope! Faith, Hope & Charity!!!

[Calm]

Beautifully stated, Anonymous 

Edited May 21, 2024 by Calm

[Devobah]

8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I came upon this today and it struck me how throughout time it really is man made most of what some believe is from God. How do we delineate them to have a true understanding. I believe the only proof I have of a God is the earth. I don't believe in most man made scripture. I see a lot of harm from men's visions or teachings. How many have to die in the name of religion that still happens to this day? Or how many people have to be harmed in the name of God or people having so called visions. 

Not to just pick on the Catholics, but this is what I read and I don't know how true.

Did you know that :

THE CREATOR OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS THE ROMAN EMPEROR FLAVIUS VALERIO CONSTANTINO II, IT WAS CALLED THE UNIVERSAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH.

In 325, in the Council of Nicea, Constantine the Great created the Catholic Church after a genocide of 45,000 Christians, where he tortured them to renounce reincarnation. At the same time, the religious books from all the villages of the empire are collected and thus the BIBLE is created. In 327, Constantine known as the emperor of Rome, orders Jerome to translate the Vulgata version into Latin, changing the Jewish names themselves and adulterating the scriptures.

In 325 at the Council of Nicea they invented the Divine Trinity.

In 431, the cult of the VIRGIN was invented.

PURGATORY was invented in 594.

In 610, the title of POPE was invented.

In 788, worship of pagan deities was imposed.

In 995, the meaning of kadosh ( paragraph) was changed to saint.

In 1079, the celibate of priests was imposed, a totally Catholic word.

In 1090, the Rosary is imposed.

In 1184 the Inquisition was carried out.

In 1190 indulgences are sold.

In 1215, the confession was imposed on priests.

In 1216, Pope Innocent III was invented, the tale of the terror of bread (a god of Greek mythology), which transforms into human flesh.

In 1311, children were baptized.

In 1439 the non-existent PURGATORY is dogmatized.

Immaculate Conception was invented in 1854

In 1870, the absurdity of an infallible pope is imposed, he’s never wrong.

There are over 2500 pagan things invented by this religion to enslave humanity with Christianity.

Religions and their Gods were created as means of MANIPULATION and BUSINESS. In the EVOLUTION of the human being we need to GET RID of these means of manipulation.

Although slowly human beings are in the era of AWAKENING, young people are LESS RELIGIOUS every day than they were two generations ago and Catholic religion will be at its end.

Everything will be part of our EVOLUTION.

It’s up to you to continue believing what you now believe is the absolute truth, if you haven’t questioned yourself, do it and you will see that all religions are man’s invention.

I agree with all of the above that this is an anti-Catholic tract. (Kind of stating the obvious here...) I have great respect for the Catholic and Orthodox faith. Honestly, if I wasn't LDS, I would most likely be a Catholic.

There's a new(ish) YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok personality in the Exmo sphere that talks a little like this, though in not as much detail. She starts off her videos the same way, with this whole "did you know" thing. The problem with things like this, is that often there isn't as much detail as we would like. Most of the time her videos are just under a minute long. You just can't cover everything in one minute. Recorded history is thousands of years old and we are still learning stuff every day about it. I remember listening to a presentation recording on my mission of someone who brought up that the Lutherans (I think) had evidence that there was, at one point, a woman Pope. Nothing I have been able to find says that is the case. 

I'm kind of rambling but the point I want to make is this: big lists like this often use oversimplification to their advantage. Assertions based on what they believe is accurate research. I think of it like what a lot of apologists have to do in various faiths. Someone provides an oversimplified question or statement, but the answer to that question or statement requires something longer. And a lot of the time it can be a bit daunting at first. And of course, you have to look at the history surrounding these events. 

Hopefully you can make sense of my ramblings 😅

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Devobah said:

I agree with all of the above that this is an anti-Catholic tract. (Kind of stating the obvious here...) I have great respect for the Catholic and Orthodox faith. Honestly, if I wasn't LDS, I would most likely be a Catholic.

There's a new(ish) YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok personality in the Exmo sphere that talks a little like this, though in not as much detail. She starts off her videos the same way, with this whole "did you know" thing. The problem with things like this, is that often there isn't as much detail as we would like. Most of the time her videos are just under a minute long. You just can't cover everything in one minute. Recorded history is thousands of years old and we are still learning stuff every day about it. I remember listening to a presentation recording on my mission of someone who brought up that the Lutherans (I think) had evidence that there was, at one point, a woman Pope. Nothing I have been able to find says that is the case. 

I'm kind of rambling but the point I want to make is this: big lists like this often use oversimplification to their advantage. Assertions based on what they believe is accurate research. I think of it like what a lot of apologists have to do in various faiths. Someone provides an oversimplified question or statement, but the answer to that question or statement requires something longer. And a lot of the time it can be a bit daunting at first. And of course, you have to look at the history surrounding these events. 

Hopefully you can make sense of my ramblings 😅

I think you spoke very well, and will contribute well to this board. I appreciate your thoughts on this, and agree about the big list thing. Some on here were previous LDS and joined the Catholic church so you're in good company as far as thinking you could be a Catholic if you weren't LDS. I have nothing against the current Catholic church, just not loving the beginnings. I just don't know what to believe anymore. It boggles my mind that we can put so much trust in the scriptures if we don't know if they come from God.

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Should you really draw conclusions about faith and religion and God based on lists or sites that use lies and are intended to shock you?  What is the purpose behind such things?  Not to help you find truth.

You can be pretty sure any list of events and ideas that is created to shock is the equivalent of malicious gossip.  You wouldn’t feel good about gossiping in this way about your neighbours, the same standard should be applied to our religious neighbours throughout the world.

It was from a high school friend who posted it on FB. I did not do my due diligence as far as fact checking each item. But Christians in general in the early years have done some horrible things. 

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Tacenda, maybe you could research claims like this before you post them.  This is an anti-Catholic list, mixing some truth with some lies and presenting it in such a way to maximize shock.

If you have a question about anti-Catholic or any anti religion list like this, feel free to PM me about it rather than give it more publicity, though this means we can take the opportunity to disprove it where wrong.

1) Translating scriptures so more people can read them is hardly an evil thing.  The Vulgate is in the Latin the common people talked at that time.  Only later when Latin died out did the Vulgate become something one had to be educated in to read.

2) the Bible was not created by just mashing all the religious books of the time together or even all of the Christian books together.  I believe Constantine was dead by the time the Bible was collected together.

https://uscatholic.org/articles/201809/who-decided-what-books-are-in-the-bible/

3) The claim of an infallible pope being never wrong is bogus.  A pope’s infallibility is restricted to a very, very limited scope, when he speaks “ex cathedra” (from the Chair) or in an ecumenical council.  This is in part protective because it prevents powerful popes from reshaping the Church however they want because past popes’ ex cathedra statements cannot be tossed aside.  In essence, imo, it is a recognition that popes can make mistakes that led to a belief that there needed to be a ‘set in stone’ collection of certain laws or doctrines, limited to when the pope was speaking on faith and morals.  Perhaps the Catholics here can let me know if I have missed the point.   

So far there are only two papal statements of infallibility, the Immaculate Conception of Mary and the Assumption of Mary.  For anti Catholics to go ballistic over infallibility shows they don’t really know or understand it or they don’t care and will outright lie in order to get people to hate Catholicism.  
 

4) “pagan” means not of the main or recognized religions or an alternative definition is a religious faith that is not Christian, Jewish, or Islamic and since the Roman Catholic Church has been the largest Christian religion for most of the Christian era, labeling beliefs original to it as “pagan” is not accurate and is done for shock value.

I came across this site on a historian reddit list asking them for their opinion on the antiCatholic list, so I won’t do anymore analysis since it’s already been done.     Though I can’t say whether it’s accurate or not, I suspect respondents are keeping each other relatively on target.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1bjdura/does_this_popular_post_have_any_historical/

 

Thanks for the information. I have been dealing with some health problems. Wish I could blame my behavior on that, but it has caused some lack of sleep. Every time I go to bed, my neck and head throb. It's only when I'm laying down. And I've dealt with a constant cough, congestion and no hearing in one ear. Maybe it's all related. It just won't go away. So there's my lame excuse. I may need to be on "limited" again, haha. Because that was really rude to post that, I'm serious too. 

[Tacenda]

9 hours ago, CV75 said:

Re: "all religions are man’s invention" -- note to self, go see the new Planet of the Apes flick!

I would, if I force myself!

[Tacenda]

10 hours ago, blackstrap said:

Anti- Catholic tracts should be kept off the forum.

That said ,deaths caused by religious thinking pales by comparison with deaths caused by followers of atheistic philosophy.

Thanks, I'm sorry. I'd be glad to take it down. Maybe I can. I'll give it a try.

[Calm]

Just now, Tacenda said:

Thanks, I'm sorry. I'd be glad to take it down. Maybe I can. I'll give it a try.

Don’t worry about it unless it’s bothering you. It’s a good reminder for everyone and there are rebuttals for it so if anyone gets directed here they will see it getting the criticism it deserves. 

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I came upon this today and it struck me how throughout time it really is man made most of what some believe is from God. How do we delineate them to have a true understanding. I believe the only proof I have of a God is the earth. I don't believe in most man made scripture. I see a lot of harm from men's visions or teachings. How many have to die in the name of religion that still happens to this day? Or how many people have to be harmed in the name of God or people having so called visions. 

Not to just pick on the Catholics, but this is what I read and I don't know how true.

Did you know that :

THE CREATOR OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS THE ROMAN EMPEROR FLAVIUS VALERIO CONSTANTINO II, IT WAS CALLED THE UNIVERSAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH.

In 325, in the Council of Nicea, Constantine the Great created the Catholic Church after a genocide of 45,000 Christians, where he tortured them to renounce reincarnation. At the same time, the religious books from all the villages of the empire are collected and thus the BIBLE is created. In 327, Constantine known as the emperor of Rome, orders Jerome to translate the Vulgata version into Latin, changing the Jewish names themselves and adulterating the scriptures.

In 325 at the Council of Nicea they invented the Divine Trinity.

In 431, the cult of the VIRGIN was invented.

PURGATORY was invented in 594.

In 610, the title of POPE was invented.

In 788, worship of pagan deities was imposed.

In 995, the meaning of kadosh ( paragraph) was changed to saint.

In 1079, the celibate of priests was imposed, a totally Catholic word.

In 1090, the Rosary is imposed.

In 1184 the Inquisition was carried out.

In 1190 indulgences are sold.

In 1215, the confession was imposed on priests.

In 1216, Pope Innocent III was invented, the tale of the terror of bread (a god of Greek mythology), which transforms into human flesh.

In 1311, children were baptized.

In 1439 the non-existent PURGATORY is dogmatized.

Immaculate Conception was invented in 1854

In 1870, the absurdity of an infallible pope is imposed, he’s never wrong.

There are over 2500 pagan things invented by this religion to enslave humanity with Christianity.

Religions and their Gods were created as means of MANIPULATION and BUSINESS. In the EVOLUTION of the human being we need to GET RID of these means of manipulation.

Although slowly human beings are in the era of AWAKENING, young people are LESS RELIGIOUS every day than they were two generations ago and Catholic religion will be at its end.

Everything will be part of our EVOLUTION.

It’s up to you to continue believing what you now believe is the absolute truth, if you haven’t questioned yourself, do it and you will see that all religions are man’s invention.

Who wrote this garbage? A lot of it doesn’t even make sense. Some of it is wrong. Some of it is a misrepresentation.

Glad to know that Pope Innocent III was invented I guess. 

[Calm]

16 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Thanks for the information. I have been dealing with some health problems. Wish I could blame my behavior on that, but it has caused some lack of sleep. Every time I go to bed, my neck and head throb. It's only when I'm laying down. And I've dealt with a constant cough, congestion and no hearing in one ear. Maybe it's all related. It just won't go away. So there's my lame excuse. I may need to be on "limited" again, haha. Because that was really rude to post that, I'm serious too. 

It is a good excuse imo (of course I am someone whose brain gets turned off or needs major distraction and who posts things that I probably shouldn’t such as way too much personal info, lol).

I hope you feel better soon. Sounds really uncomfortable. 

Edited May 22, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

Here’s a good response from a Catholic POV. 
 

https://www.catholic365.com/article/33758/the-truth-about-the-council-that-created-jesus.html

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Who wrote this garbage? A lot of it doesn’t even make sense. Some of it is wrong. Some of it is a misrepresentation.

Glad to know that Pope Innocent III was invented I guess. 

I may have found the name, but it’s been deleted from FB I think, so can’t confirm it. 

[Tacenda]

12 hours ago, Calm said:

Here’s a good response from a Catholic POV. 
 

https://www.catholic365.com/article/33758/the-truth-about-the-council-that-created-jesus.html

Absolutely love this response Calm! Thanks for finding it.

[Devobah]

16 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I think you spoke very well, and will contribute well to this board. I appreciate your thoughts on this, and agree about the big list thing. Some on here were previous LDS and joined the Catholic church so you're in good company as far as thinking you could be a Catholic if you weren't LDS. I have nothing against the current Catholic church, just not loving the beginnings. I just don't know what to believe anymore. It boggles my mind that we can put so much trust in the scriptures if we don't know if they come from God.

I spent a lot of time thinking of this yesterday, and it looks like you have some solid answers already!

I'll add my two cents though. It's hard to separate a church from God when they claim to be the only true church. Catholics, Orthodox, JWs, and the LDS church make this claim. I think one of the things about the beginnings is that, if one looks at it through a purely historical sense, it looks like a bunch of power hungry men excommunicating each other. It's hard to look at that and not see a mess, even if you do have faith in God. I saw this when I first starting looking into church history. 

As a member of the LDS church I see both histories as messy, because the past is messy. (Keep in mind I'm looking at this through a faithful lens, so I might sound a bit TBMy) With the Catholics, the apostles died and the early church fathers were left to try and keep things together. The first thing they had to get right was the nature of God and the relation to Jesus Christ. Various heresies were easy to weed out, and some were not because of legitimate concerns or scriptural backing (or at least what they thought). Then there was the issue of the cannon of scripture. What makes something scripture? What should go in the Old and New Testament? The New Testament was easier to sort out than the Old. Do they go with what the Jews held as scripture? Which sect of Jews? There's a lot to sort out there.

With the restoration, Joseph was constantly being corrected, and asking questions. It's how we get more of the great revelations from the Doctrine and Covenants. Joseph had to put away old habits and get used to being a prophet of God. How do you organize a church with a bunch of different protestant backgrounds? What truths did the sects have their that didn't get lost? Joseph Smith said that bits of truth were found in every denomination. (Keep in mind that it was more the creeds that were the abomination, rather than the churches themselves.) It's always difficult because history is difficult.

Hopefully this helps.

[BlueDreams]

On 5/21/2024 at 8:55 AM, Tacenda said:

I came upon this today and it struck me how throughout time it really is man made most of what some believe is from God. How do we delineate them to have a true understanding. I believe the only proof I have of a God is the earth. I don't believe in most man made scripture. I see a lot of harm from men's visions or teachings. How many have to die in the name of religion that still happens to this day? Or how many people have to be harmed in the name of God or people having so called visions. 

Plenty have answered the catholic part of this post far better than i could and since you edited out specific religion, i'll focus on the more abstract parts of your post.

Starting with the bold. Have you taken time to read most scripture. Not just the bible, but other traditions holy texts? I'm curious, because I've decided to take time this year to study a sampling of texts or beliefs from religions of interest to me. I haven't gotten super far yet. I started with a religious tradition called Odinani, which would have been the religion of some of my ancestors pre colonization. Then read most of the dhammapada, and am just starting the Bhagavad gita. For each I try to find a voice from a positive perspective of each faith to understand what they see or take from the beliefs. 

I've found the opposite conclusion you have in doing so. I've felt the Spirit in each practice. I've found and heard truth in each of them. In the Odinani traditions I found a beautiful value of connection. Connection to the earth, to ancestors, to the everyday holy. It helped me feel closer to my heritages, my space, and my everyday sacred. The dhammapada is filled with practical wisdom that resonated strongly with both the bible/BoM and that would be useful for just about anyone. I grappled and explored the value and problem with earthly attachments. Funny enough I found myself watching a vid about a primarily Buddhist country who had a genocide based on political divisions and thought...man if their leaders truly followed the teachings in the dhammapada, this probably woudn't have unfolded as it did. I had a moment of realizing I accept this book as holy writ. It isn't perfect, like no scripture is, but it is filled with divine truths. So it's good and of God.

I'm about to start the Bhagavad Gita and even the intro I chose to get an overview has me anticipating another spiritual space for growth. 

 

Like anything good, religion and faith can be distorted to validate seeking after base desires and pursuits. Whether that be greed, ideological absolutism, lusts, power over others, validation, etc. but it doesn't make the root or core of what religion is bad. It just means some of it can be. And sometimes good fruit can rot and good trees can be encumbered by poor growth or disease. Nature teaches me that as well. I see God in the core of many different faiths. A core of truths and morals that can help people grow and develop. 

 

With luv, 

BD

[manol]

1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

I've felt the Spirit in each practice. I've found and heard truth in each of them. In the Odinani traditions I found a beautiful value of connection. Connection to the earth, to ancestors, to the everyday holy. It helped me feel closer to my heritages, my space, and my everyday sacred. The dhammapada is filled with practical wisdom that resonated strongly with both the bible/BoM and that would be useful for just about anyone. I grappled and explored the value and problem with earthly attachments. Funny enough I found myself watching a vid about a primarily Buddhist country who had a genocide based on political divisions and thought...man if their leaders truly followed the teachings in the dhammapada, this probably woudn't have unfolded as it did. I had a moment of realizing I accept this book as holy writ. It isn't perfect, like no scripture is, but it is filled with divine truths. So it's good and of God.

I'm about to start the Bhagavad Gita and even the intro I chose to get an overview has me anticipating another spiritual space for growth.

 

Imo God has spoken (and continues to speak) through unexpected voices and from unexpected places. Kudos to you for expanding your openness to and seeking for truth to include sources which are outside the traditional box. Some treasures may be hidden. Sometimes an idea the Spirit draws our attention to in one thought system also shows up in another... and another... and another... almost like it's being established in the mouth of two or more witnesses.

Edited May 22, 2024 by manol

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

Plenty have answered the catholic part of this post far better than i could and since you edited out specific religion, i'll focus on the more abstract parts of your post.

Starting with the bold. Have you taken time to read most scripture. Not just the bible, but other traditions holy texts? I'm curious, because I've decided to take time this year to study a sampling of texts or beliefs from religions of interest to me. I haven't gotten super far yet. I started with a religious tradition called Odinani, which would have been the religion of some of my ancestors pre colonization. Then read most of the dhammapada, and am just starting the Bhagavad gita. For each I try to find a voice from a positive perspective of each faith to understand what they see or take from the beliefs. 

I've found the opposite conclusion you have in doing so. I've felt the Spirit in each practice. I've found and heard truth in each of them. In the Odinani traditions I found a beautiful value of connection. Connection to the earth, to ancestors, to the everyday holy. It helped me feel closer to my heritages, my space, and my everyday sacred. The dhammapada is filled with practical wisdom that resonated strongly with both the bible/BoM and that would be useful for just about anyone. I grappled and explored the value and problem with earthly attachments. Funny enough I found myself watching a vid about a primarily Buddhist country who had a genocide based on political divisions and thought...man if their leaders truly followed the teachings in the dhammapada, this probably woudn't have unfolded as it did. I had a moment of realizing I accept this book as holy writ. It isn't perfect, like no scripture is, but it is filled with divine truths. So it's good and of God.

I'm about to start the Bhagavad Gita and even the intro I chose to get an overview has me anticipating another spiritual space for growth. 

 

Like anything good, religion and faith can be distorted to validate seeking after base desires and pursuits. Whether that be greed, ideological absolutism, lusts, power over others, validation, etc. but it doesn't make the root or core of what religion is bad. It just means some of it can be. And sometimes good fruit can rot and good trees can be encumbered by poor growth or disease. Nature teaches me that as well. I see God in the core of many different faiths. A core of truths and morals that can help people grow and develop. 

 

With luv, 

BD

Thanks so much for your suggestions or experience with different faiths' types of scriptures. I wish I was as strong with delving in on many ideas from all walks of life. I should have explained better that I dislike specifically Bible scriptures in the Old Testament usually that are harmful to women and the ones showing God to be not my God anyway. So I've not ventured away from the Bible/BoM scriptures. Maybe it's time I do. Thanks for your precious time BD! ❤️