Patriarchal Blessings

[Vellichor]

My patriarchal blessing has been painful for me. One paragraph describes a part of my life with amazing accuracy--in a way that would not fit any of my siblings or friends, so I believe it was inspired. But much of the rest of my detailed 2-page blessing describes a life that is foreign. Namely, it says I will have a spouse, awesome children, and good health--none of which I have, nor will I likely ever have. (My health used to be good but has plummeted over the past couple years as I have developed a serious chronic illness.) Honestly I kind of wish I hadn't ever received a patriarchal blessing. It makes me feel like God forgot me or something. And the whole next life thing does not help. How is health even relevant in the next life? I don't need guidance for heaven; I need help HERE.

[Diamondhands69]

On 12/11/2023 at 8:26 PM, MiserereNobis said:

How does fallibility work with patriarchal blessings? How much of a blessing is from God and how much from man? 

To me, a patriarchal blessing seems much more of a flashpoint for this issue than the prophet. The latter makes generalized pronouncements. The former gives a once in a lifetime pronouncement to a specific individual. 

What if he’s wrong and the individual spends their whole life contemplating something they believe is from God to them but just isn’t?

Supposedly they channel God and what he wants you to know about your life. Oddly enough, patriarchs used to tell people they wouldn’t taste death or they would live to see the second coming here on earth and all kinds of spectacular stuff we all know hasn’t happened. That practice was ended in early 1900s I believe. The church told the patriarchs to quit saying that stuff. I’m guessing the patriarch is just doing his thing. That’s why they interview you once or twice before s blessing… so they can figure out what to say. 

[Duncan]

5 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Supposedly they channel God and what he wants you to know about your life. Oddly enough, patriarchs used to tell people they wouldn’t taste death or they would live to see the second coming here on earth and all kinds of spectacular stuff we all know hasn’t happened. That practice was ended in early 1900s I believe. The church told the patriarchs to quit saying that stuff. I’m guessing the patriarch is just doing his thing. That’s why they interview you once or twice before s blessing… so they can figure out what to say. 

the bishop interviews you, not the patriarch

[Stargazer]

6 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

That’s why they interview you once or twice before s blessing… so they can figure out what to say. 

I can see where you're coming from on that. You're thinking of a cold reading. And I can see why it might occur to you, especially as a non-believer, so I can't completely fault you for it. But is that what is truly going on?

I don't doubt that there is a certain amount of familiarization with the person that is needed to deliver a blessing. If someone comes to you as a priesthood holder to ask for a blessing because of concerns he has, does he truly expect that you should deliver a blessing without knowing anything of what his concerns are? Did leprous General Naaman of Aram visit King Joram of Israel and just stand there in silence waiting for Joram to perceive that Naaman was asking to be cured of his leprosy? Not hardly. He brought a letter of recommendation from his own king, asking for this. Which of course highly perplexed Joram because he was afraid this visit was to establish a pretext for an invasion by Aram ("What? You refuse to heal my general? This means war!"). Fortunately, Elisha heard of this and invited Naaman to come to him -- whereupon he told Naaman to bathe in the river Jordan seven times. I suppose you've heard the story.

Well, here we are. Does God ask you to pray for things? "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." But why ask God? Doesn't he know what you want to know already? Why doesn't He just spill the beans and the ****ens with this "asking" stuff?

I'm not a patriarch, but I've experienced a teensy bit of what it means to be one. Many years ago, my step-son who had just returned from his mission asked me to give him a father's blessing. I had married his mother while he was on his mission, and had not met him before he left, so I only had a brief acquaintanceship at the time. On the day he asked me for the blessing his mother and I had been bickering a bit and I didn't feel "into it," yet I wanted to do as he asked. So I retired to our bedroom to pray, asking for the Spirit to guide me in giving the blessing. And then I gave the blessing. I didn't really know him, but for some reason the blessing gave him a good deal of comfort, and he said that the blessing had answered some questions he had in his mind -- he didn't tell me what they were, by the way, before or after. 

I suppose the fact that he had been in my presence in my home (not the family home, by the way, we were then in Germany), gave me some unconscious insight into his needs and wants, and generally speaking I would have been able to surmise what some of his desires for the future might be, anyway, as a young LDS man just returned from his mission (after all, I had been in his situation years before). So would this have colored how I spoke as I gave the blessing? Without a doubt. I don't remember at all what I said to him then, but I do remember how I felt. And after that prayer it felt like I was on the Lord's errand, and not my own. And the words that I spoke did not feel like my own -- I felt guided to say what I said. Not word for word, but guided in what I did say. He later told me that as I entered the living room after praying he felt the Spirit enter with me. And that's what I felt like, too, because of that prayer. You might want to denigrate it as something in my mind alone, a kind of self-hypnosis, but if so, I was there and you weren't. In any case it didn't bear the slightest resemblance to what I imagine that might have felt like. 

In any case, even the most inspired among us do not get handed what to say, word for word, at every point when we give blessings, or pray. Sometimes it happens! But mostly it does not. Michael Ash, in his book Rethinking Revelation and the Human Element in Scripture, writes that it is unavoidable that the word that prophets (and I suppose, patriarchs) receive cannot hope to be uncolored by the attitudes, knowledge, and feelings of those who receive that word:

"My research demonstrates that the Word of God contains both human and holy elements. Like the light and dark stones of the Urim and Thummim, the yin-yang-like marriage of seeming opposites sometimes generates a new harmony. Male and female, spirit and body, inspiration and intellect: complementary opposites, when righteously unified, create a “whole” that is greater than the individual elements. So likewise, consecrated narratives are composed in a co-creative process involving divine communication from the Supreme Being and the deficient cognitive musings of the human mind." [emphasis added]

FWIW.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Stargazer
Corrected some syntax

[Stargazer]

45 minutes ago, Duncan said:

the bishop interviews you, not the patriarch

To be fair, perhaps he was referring to the fact that the patriarch generally has a conversation with the person who came for a blessing.

When I received mine, there were three others there. The patriarch did not know me, as I had come from out of his stake (I lived in a mission area outside his stake), so he couldn't have known anything about me beforehand. But the patriarch spoke with us all in a group, mainly it seemed to make sure we knew what a patriarchal blessing was, and was not. And in aid of at least having some idea of who we were. 

 

[Diamondhands69]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

the bishop interviews you, not the patriarch

I guess my 45 min chat with the patriarch and my parents right before my blessing asking me ten thousand questions was just a “talk” then… anyway that’s what happened with mine. My father was a patriarch and he “interviewed” the recipient beforehand. At least that’s what he called it. As an adult I have been to my parents home on more than one occasion when he was giving a blessing. Process was usually at least two hrs and most the time they were in his office chatting about something.

my kids got interviews by the patriarch as well. I guess everyone around here is doing this all wrong. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Diamondhands69

[Stargazer]

7 hours ago, Vellichor said:

My patriarchal blessing has been painful for me. One paragraph describes a part of my life with amazing accuracy--in a way that would not fit any of my siblings or friends, so I believe it was inspired. But much of the rest of my detailed 2-page blessing describes a life that is foreign. Namely, it says I will have a spouse, awesome children, and good health--none of which I have, nor will I likely ever have. (My health used to be good but has plummeted over the past couple years as I have developed a serious chronic illness.) Honestly I kind of wish I hadn't ever received a patriarchal blessing. It makes me feel like God forgot me or something. And the whole next life thing does not help. How is health even relevant in the next life? I don't need guidance for heaven; I need help HERE.

I'm sorry to hear of your health problems! I cannot imagine anything more frustrating than to be held back in one's hopes for one's life by something so much out of one's control. 

On the other hand, this life is extremely short in the overall scheme of things. You literally cannot imagine the extent of the things to come. It will make whatever seemingly serious things that happen here look like mere bumps in the road.

God hasn't forgotten you, any more than he forgot Job, or his son Jesus on the cross. When the Prophet Joseph complained to God while he was incarcerated in Liberty Jail, God didn't act immediately to spring him loose. Instead he told Joseph "know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good." Also, "...peace be unto thy soul; thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment; And then, if thou endure it well, God shall exalt thee on high; thou shalt triumph over all thy foes." In this case, your foe is your bad health -- and in a way, your own doubts. That foe will only overcome you if you let it.

I know well that my own patriarchal blessing will not be totally fulfilled in this life. I was told that I would serve a mission with my future wife, but she was taken from me by death when I was 64. When I re-examined my blessing afterwards, I saw that it clearly said this would be in the "greater mission field". And where is that greater mission field? Obviously the Spirit World. I look forward to this. But not yet!

When I was on my mission in Germany, one of the members of a branch I served in was this very elderly sister who could not attend church due to very poor health. She was one of the most spiritual people I have ever met. But she had never married. This was because her fiancée had been killed in battle during WW1. Yes, World War One. I don't know why she never married, but I believe it was because of loyalty to her fiancée. Yet she affirmed that, as a convert of only a few years, she knew that in the end no blessings would be withheld that she deserved in righteousness, including the blessing of eternal marriage. 

I'm sorry if this is cold comfort to you. But if the things mentioned in your patriarchal blessing are not yours for the moment, I am convinced that if you are faithful and trust in the Lord, you will find they can still be yours in the end. 

[Stargazer]

5 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

I guess my 45 min chat with the patriarch and my parents right before my blessing asking me ten thousand questions was just a “talk” then… anyway that’s what happened with mine. My father was a patriarch and he “interviewed” the recipient beforehand. At least that’s what he called it. As an adult I have been to my parents home on more than one occasion when he was giving a blessing. Process was usually at least two hrs and most the time they were in his office chatting about something.

my kids got interviews by the patriarch as well. I guess everyone around here is doing this all wrong. 

You seem pretty bitter about it all. Did your patriarchal blessing not live up to your expectations?

[Diamondhands69]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

I can see where you're coming from on that. You're thinking of a cold reading. And I can see why it might occur to you, especially as a non-believer, so I can't completely fault you for it. But is that what is truly going on?

I don't doubt that there is a certain amount of familiarization with the person that is needed to deliver a blessing. If someone comes to you as a priesthood holder to ask for a blessing because of concerns he has, does he truly expect that you should deliver a blessing without knowing anything of what his concerns are? 

Cold read, interview, talk, chat… they are getting to know you and yes I expect it. My patriarch didn’t know squat about my other than what my parents probably told him. We had a long talk before my blessing and I was being blasted with questions. It wasn’t small talk, it was specific line of questioning about my goals, career desires etc. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

the bishop interviews you, not the patriarch

I met the patriarch once, when he gave me a blessing.  My grandmother had come with me and he talked to her more than me and not about me, but about when she had taught in the department for a short time.  There was no way he picked up anything meaningful about me except perhaps by body language.  I am not making any claims about remarkable insight or anything though, just commenting on the process.  If he was intending to pick up clues for the blessing, he went about it a very odd way. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

15 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

am convinced that if you are faithful and trust in the Lord

This is the hard stuff, right, when the blessings don’t come.  It can feel at least like one is forgotten, or at worst that the church is manipulating one to be good. 
 

I understand the pain of unfulfilled promises, with the backup that the promises will be fulfilled later.  Where is the personal element in that promise?  Everyone has that promise. 

[Diamondhands69]

44 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

You seem pretty bitter about it all. Did your patriarchal blessing not live up to your expectations?

I’m not bitter, just explaining what happened with mine and a few others since I was told I was not interviewed.  That’s all. 
 

as for the blessing itself. I didn’t want one in the first place. But again there was nothing optional about church stuff in my home. I just played along. The blessing itself was and still is nothing special. At least not that I can tell. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Diamondhands69

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, Diamondhands69 said:

I guess my 45 min chat with the patriarch and my parents right before my blessing asking me ten thousand questions was just a “talk” then… anyway that’s what happened with mine. My father was a patriarch and he “interviewed” the recipient beforehand. At least that’s what he called it. As an adult I have been to my parents home on more than one occasion when he was giving a blessing. Process was usually at least two hrs and most the time they were in his office chatting about something.

my kids got interviews by the patriarch as well. I guess everyone around here is doing this all wrong. 

none of that happened to me, my Mom told me I was getting my PB, went to the Bishop for the interview, then went to the Patriarch's house, never met him before, and he gave me it and that was it

[Stargazer]

46 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

This is the hard stuff, right, when the blessings don’t come.  It can feel at least like one is forgotten, or at worst that the church is manipulating one to be good. 

God is manipulating us to be good, then. Through every commandment with a blessing promised through obedience, by every scripture telling us what glory awaits us if we remain faithful, and so on. It's not just the Church. Examining the New Testament, for example, I find that there are recorded a number of people who suffered for years with no apparent promise of healing -- but then they were healed by Jesus.

Yes, it is the hard stuff when the blessings don't come. But when they say "count your blessings" are they expecting you to come up empty? Or to come up with what blessings you DO have? And should be grateful for? Glass half-full vs half-empty.

 

46 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I understand the pain of unfulfilled promises, with the backup that the promises will be fulfilled later.  Where is the personal element in that promise?  Everyone has that promise. 

I understand that pain, too. We all do, because no matter who we are some promises will be unfulfilled in our lives, including unfulfilled through no fault of our own. But are you saying that the backup is a problem because everyone has that promise? Dear MustardSeed, every promise is personal, regardless of how many people have it. 

My understanding is that God is not a respecter of persons. Everyone who has entered mortality has the absolute promise of resurrection, regardless of conduct. Everyone who has entered mortality has the conditional promise of salvation if their conduct meets certain guidelines (faith, repentance, baptism). Everyone who has entered mortality has the conditional promise of exaltation if they are worthy of salvation and are valiant in the testimony of Jesus. God put us here in order to filter out those who were not suited to become what He is. This filtration necessarily involves a certain amount of distress or pressure to see how we will break. Although some of us (who die before accountability) seem to have a free pass.

I have strong sympathy for those who suffer. And because as a man I want to fix things, I am distressed because I cannot fix them or their circumstances. The best I can do from my position is say "You'll be OK, eventually. Just have faith!" 

Or do we use the argument of lack of blessings to sow despair? "Oh, you're just screwed. Give up. It's hopeless." Fatalism has its attractions, I suppose. But the Gospel of Jesus Christ offers hope. In that sense, the Gospel is a man who wants to fix things, but cannot do so unless the person in distress is willing to have faith and act accordingly.

Well, I guess I'm just mansplaining again.

[InCognitus]

9 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

The church told the patriarchs to quit saying that stuff.

CFR

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Diamondhands69 said:

I’m not bitter, just explaining what happened with mine and a few others since I was told I was not interviewed.  That’s all. 

I understand. 

1 hour ago, Diamondhands69 said:

as for the blessing itself. I didn’t want one in the first place. But again there was nothing optional about church stuff in my home. I just played along. The blessing itself was and still is nothing special. At least not that I can tell. 

I think that it is a mistake to push people to receive that which they do not want to receive, or are not yet ready to receive. I think your parents had righteous desires in this, but weren't wise in how they applied those desires. 

Do you know if your patriarch's method of "interviewing" was his standard process? Or were you a special case? Sorry, you might have mentioned this already and I missed it. The patriarch who gave me my blessing had a generic "get to know ya" conversation with the four of us who had appointments with him that day. I think this amounted to about 5 minutes per person if one were to average it out.

If I ever get called as a patriarch (and I hope I don't), it would be my goal to give each blessee what the Lord wants him or her to have, and as little of me as possible to get inserted.

My first wife was a long-time inactive with emotional problems. After she read my patriarchal blessing she wanted one, too. I went with her for the blessing, and the "get to know ya" conversation with the patriarch was maybe 5 or 10 minutes long. He was very kind to her, but through his body language I could tell that he knew she really wasn't ready for it (as I already knew). But the blessing he gave her did give her comfort and perhaps that was all she could get out of it. 

And maybe, if you put some effort into getting to know the Lord better, your blessing might take on meaning it didn't have when you got it. 

[Stargazer]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:56 PM, BlueDreams said:

I used mine a ton in my teens and 20's. I wore out the paper from where I folded it to fit it in my scriptures. At some point I decided to transcribe it so that I could read it in my laptop and phone.

You may be aware of this already, but you can bring your patriarchal blessing into your church account so when you sign in on the church website you can see it there. And download it, too.

[Diamondhands69]

2 hours ago, InCognitus said:

CFR

“A Patriarch should pronounce only those promises that are prompted by the Spirit. He should avoid sensational or extravagant promises. For example, he should not make references to world calamities or timing of the Second Coming.”

pp 6/16

 

as for when patriarchs were first told to stop doing that… I’ll  have to defer to my dead father. He is the one who told me that. 
 

 

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/6/66/Information_and_Suggestions_for_Patriarchs-2016.pdf

Edited December 19, 2023 by Diamondhands69

[MustardSeed]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Well, I guess I'm just mansplaining again.

What do you mean here? 
thank you for your thoughts. 

[Stargazer]

7 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

What do you mean here? 

Somebody I won't name (not you) is bound to jump in and accuse me of it, so I thought I would toss it out there myself just to get it over with. Believe me, I've been castigated for intruding my male thoughts into things like this before. 

7 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

thank you for your thoughts. 

And thank you for thanking me!   

Edited December 19, 2023 by Stargazer
added smiley

[Tacenda]

I wonder what mine would have said back in my teens. I got mine in my 30's, all it basically said is that I am a peacemaker. And I brought my husband and parents with. We did speak with the patriarch and his wife for a bit. And I was in the stake patriarch's ward. But our age difference made it so we rarely spoke, or weren't in each other's circles. But I'll have to reread it again, hopefully find it in storage.

[SkyRock]

To follow up on my blessing, our patriarch didn't know me but knew my dad because my dad was stake president.   He mentioned how strongly he felt the spirit.   

I don't doubt he was inspired and the words came from God as mediated through the patriarch.  Receiving the blessing has guided me in a far different path than I would have had without it.  I have received great comfort from it.

At the same time, due to the great length and many promises and warnings and guidance, it has helped me to grow tremendously even as it has been unfulfilled in many ways, even after 4 decades.   I would not have married my spouse without it.  I likely would have divorced my spouse without it.  There are many other things that would have been different without the blessing. 

Did the blessing shape my life?  Yes.   Am I a better person for that? Yes.   Has it been a path of joy for the most part? No.

It seems mostly like Neo visiting the Oracle in the Matrix.  My patriarchal blessing is what I needed to receive.  

In the end, it remains one of the greatest sources of spiritual comfort and struggle in my life, at the same.   I can't read it or even think about it without having a strong impression from the Holy Ghost testifying of its truthfulness. 

I guess I really needed to learn the lesson of having long delayed blessings and promises.  Everything in the Lord's time after all.  Waiting upon the Lord is key. 

 

[bluebell]

17 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Supposedly they channel God and what he wants you to know about your life. Oddly enough, patriarchs used to tell people they wouldn’t taste death or they would live to see the second coming here on earth and all kinds of spectacular stuff we all know hasn’t happened. That practice was ended in early 1900s I believe. The church told the patriarchs to quit saying that stuff. I’m guessing the patriarch is just doing his thing. That’s why they interview you once or twice before s blessing… so they can figure out what to say. 

The patriarch doesn't usually meet you until you show up for the blessing, and then all that's usually exchanged are pleasantries.  I've never attended one where the parties spoke for more than a minute or two before the blessing, and that was with everyone that had come with the person present.

I saw mine for about 30 seconds before he did the blessing, for example.  He didn't know me or my family.  We were new to the area (and he lived in a different town than we did anyway).

[bluebell]

10 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

 

my kids got interviews by the patriarch as well. I guess everyone around here is doing this all wrong. 

If everyone is being interviewed by the patriarch then they aren't following the handbook of instructions on how to do it.

It's covered in section 18.7

Every worthy, baptized member is entitled to receive a patriarchal blessing, which provides inspired direction from Heavenly Father (see Genesis 48:14–16; 49; 2 Nephi 4:3–11). Parents and Church leaders encourage members to prepare spiritually to obtain their patriarchal blessings.

The bishop or an assigned counselor interviews members who desire to receive a patriarchal blessing. If the member is worthy, the interviewer prepares a Patriarchal Blessing Recommend. He submits it through the Patriarchal Blessing System on ChurchofJesusChrist.org.

After receiving a recommend, the member contacts the patriarch to set up an appointment to receive a patriarchal blessing.

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, SkyRock said:

I don't doubt he was inspired and the words came from God as mediated through the patriarch.  Receiving the blessing has guided me in a far different path than I would have had without it.  I have received great comfort from it.

Amen to that.

As a fairly new convert, I was sure I was absolutely the wrong person to serve a full-time mission, and that was my outlook as I went to the patriarch. My blessing changed that outlook on a dime. The blessing said nothing about serving a mission, per se, but the implications of some of the matters in the blessing made it clear that "every member a missionary" included even me! And it was absolutely the right and best thing to do.

So I went, and my life changed immeasurably. And on balance, for the better. It kind of alienated me from my father at the time, because he had an entirely different outlook on my future than I had. I disappointed him greatly, I'm afraid.