Patriarchal Blessings

[Stargazer]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If everyone is being interviewed by the patriarch then they aren't following the handbook of instructions on how to do it.

I think Diamond Jim is referring to his patriarch conducting a very long and searching personal exploration of his background, hopes, dreams, goals, and so on, before giving the blessing. Calling it an "interview" makes it sound like a worthiness interview, when what he meant was an interview a la Larry King. 

And if that is what the patriarch was doing, he needed to be reined in by the stake president. I'd say that was not at all appropriate.

[Diamondhands69]

15 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I think Diamond Jim is referring to his patriarch conducting a very long and searching personal exploration of his background, hopes, dreams, goals, and so on, before giving the blessing. Calling it an "interview" makes it sound like a worthiness interview, when what he meant was an interview a la Larry King. 

And if that is what the patriarch was doing, he needed to be reined in by the stake president. I'd say that was not at all appropriate.

The stake pres was my father lol. The interview is approved. It wasn’t a worthiness interview. It was exploration as described above. 

[Diamondhands69]

56 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If everyone is being interviewed by the patriarch then they aren't following the handbook of instructions on how to do it.

It's covered in section 18.7

Every worthy, baptized member is entitled to receive a patriarchal blessing, which provides inspired direction from Heavenly Father (see Genesis 48:14–16; 49; 2 Nephi 4:3–11). Parents and Church leaders encourage members to prepare spiritually to obtain their patriarchal blessings.

The bishop or an assigned counselor interviews members who desire to receive a patriarchal blessing. If the member is worthy, the interviewer prepares a Patriarchal Blessing Recommend. He submits it through the Patriarchal Blessing System on ChurchofJesusChrist.org.

After receiving a recommend, the member contacts the patriarch to set up an appointment to receive a patriarchal blessing.

I hope you don’t believe majority actually follow the book. I have lived in the inner workings at higher than sp level and I can say with utmost confidence the manual is nothing but a guideline. The odds of being held to account for not following it are pretty low. 

[Duncan]

32 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

I hope you don’t believe majority actually follow the book. I have lived in the inner workings at higher than sp level and I can say with utmost confidence the manual is nothing but a guideline. The odds of being held to account for not following it are pretty low. 

how up to date are you with "the inner workings"? you say "lived", sounds past tense to me, like you were current up to 1994 or something

[Diamondhands69]

11 minutes ago, Duncan said:

how up to date are you with "the inner workings"? you say "lived", sounds past tense to me, like you were current up to 1994 or something

Fairly current. It is family and their friends. All they talk about is their callings.. family reunions are a freaking hoot. Temple trip so we can all be together, slide shows about the last senior mission, what is going on in the temple admin dept. yep good ole boys club. Not super high in innards, but connected at ga level. 
 

nice thing is since I’m openly not holding to the iron rod, I don’t get invited to most events. They still talk the same as if I was a Uber TBM so yea I have a good idea of what is going on. 
 

nonetheless, nothing changes. 

[Duncan]

26 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Fairly current. It is family and their friends. All they talk about is their callings.. family reunions are a freaking hoot. Temple trip so we can all be together, slide shows about the last senior mission, what is going on in the temple admin dept. yep good ole boys club. Not super high in innards, but connected at ga level. 
 

nice thing is since I’m openly not holding to the iron rod, I don’t get invited to most events. They still talk the same as if I was a Uber TBM so yea I have a good idea of what is going on. 
 

nonetheless, nothing changes. 

so compared to the worldwide church an extremely small sample size. I thought you meant you had some worldwide exposure to what patriarchs are doing currently but it doesn't sound like that at all. I hear and we all hear what is going on in the "temple admin. dept", which it isn't even called that by the way.

Nothing changes? clearly you haven't been paying any attention to what is going on in and to the temples or the church at large

Edited December 20, 2023 by Duncan

[Diamondhands69]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

Nothing changes? clearly you haven't been paying any attention to what is going on in and to the temples or the church at large

I’m not talking bout the multiple changes to the endowment, or the stuff regular members are exposed to, I’m talking bout sausage making. Also when you have temple presidencies and mission presidents and more in the family and have for generations , you have connections to GAs. So much so we had apostles visit my home routinely even when my father was not stake pres. There are two churches out there. The one 99% exist in and the one the other 1% exist in. They are very different. These are the folks who can score a cool mission for a kid instead of some lame posting in Nebraska. Go above stake pre level and that is where you realize that is the gospel truth. 
 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Diamondhands69

[Diamondhands69]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

so compared to the worldwide church an extremely small sample size. I thought you meant you had some worldwide exposure to what patriarchs are doing currently but it doesn't sound like that at all. I hear and we all hear what is going on in the "temple admin. dept", which it isn't even called that by the way.

What is going on in the world wide church has nothing to do with what I’m talking about. Also if you think the church the isn’t run entirely by a couple dudes in Utah you are mad.  No one cares what some leader in Ghana or Honduras thinks.  Why do you think we send senior white missionaries to foreign countries to teach them how it’s done? There’s plenty of locals to do it.  It is because the Utah way is the only way. Soooo.. what goes on in the inner workings of the church is what counts, not in your local ward. 
 

they say the church is true at the ward level and down. That is absolutely true in terms of how people treat each other. Christian-like. Above that is a good ole boys club for the connected and their families. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Diamondhands69

[Duncan]

9 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

I’m not talking bout the multiple changes to the endowment, or the stuff regular members are exposed to, I’m talking bout sausage making. Also when you have temple presidencies and mission presidents and more in the family and have for generations , you have connections to GAs. So much so we had apostles visit my home routinely even when my father was not stake pres. There are two churches out there. The one 99% exist in and the one the other 1% exist in. They are very different. These are the folks who can score a cool mission for a kid instead of some lame posting in Nebraska. Go above stake pre level and that is where you realize that is the gospel truth. 
 

none of this registers with me or has any semblance of reality, Pres. Nelson's grandson served his mission here, and it is not a "cool mission" I can assure you and I live in a "foreign" country. 

[Diamondhands69]

29 minutes ago, Duncan said:

none of this registers with me or has any semblance of reality, Pres. Nelson's grandson served his mission here, and it is not a "cool mission" I can assure you and I live in a "foreign" country. 

I said they “can” score a good mission, not “they always do.” Believe me in lots of these power families a foreign mission no matter where it is is much better than Nebraska or Idaho. Not because of comfort, but because of learning language, making the kid have to do hard things bla bla. Stateside missions are not looked on as anything to brag about to these people. Anywhere foreign is. 
 

out of my family of the people I can track and am aware of, we have about 120 (prob more) or so children, grand children and great grandchildren descended from my parents . Of my siblings all males went overseas and the girls went stateside. Of my nieces and nephews, all but like two or three went overseas. Females again all stateside. Of the great grandkids we have about a dozen out now. All males overseas and I don’t think we have any females out at the moment. One female came home early and is now the family embarrassment for them. Kinda crazy how all these kids going overseas yet in my ward which has a revolving door for missionaries rarely ever had an overseas calling. Hmmm 

mission choice can be used by a family to leverage a kid into going, positioning one near extended family or not use the privilege at all. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Diamondhands69

[BlueDreams]

On 12/19/2023 at 6:08 AM, Diamondhands69 said:

I guess my 45 min chat with the patriarch and my parents right before my blessing asking me ten thousand questions was just a “talk” then… anyway that’s what happened with mine. My father was a patriarch and he “interviewed” the recipient beforehand. At least that’s what he called it. As an adult I have been to my parents home on more than one occasion when he was giving a blessing. Process was usually at least two hrs and most the time they were in his office chatting about something.

my kids got interviews by the patriarch as well. I guess everyone around here is doing this all wrong. 

It may just differ a little from patriarch to patriarch. Mine was also as stargazer mentioned...a "cold reading." About as cold as you can get. I had moved across country a few months prior, the man was not in my ward and lived probably 20-30 minutes away from us, and none of us knew him. At the beginning he gave a brief explanation of what would happen, filled out technical information he needed from us for the paperwork, and asked me what name I preferred to go by. That was about it. It probably too 10 ish minutes and would be a huge stretch to call it an interview. Even if there was some form of internal dialogue between he and my bishop, he wouldn't have gotten much. my general demeanor at the time was cold and aloof on a good day and aggressive and angry on a bad. No one knew me deeply at the time. Not even myself. If there was any background info, I would have expected a very different toned blessing than the one I had. Who I was at the time was not the person described in the blessing. 

I assume there's a bit of leeway given to how they do the process. I know one patriarch I met set aside a room in their home for the work. Mine did it smack dab in the middle of his living room. I don't think either was right or wrong to do so

 

With luv,

BD 

Edited December 21, 2023 by BlueDreams

[Diamondhands69]

24 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

It may just differ a little from patriarch to patriarch. Mine was also as stargazer mentioned...a "cold reading." About as cold as you can get. I had moved across country a few months prior, the man was not in my ward and lived probably 20-30 minutes away from us, and none of us knew him. At the beginning he gave a brief explanation of what would happen, filled out technical information he needed from us for the paperwork, and asked me what name I preferred to go by. That was about it. It probably too 10 ish minutes and would be a huge stretch to call it an interview. Even if there was some form of internal dialogue between he and my bishop, he wouldn't have gotten much. my general demeanor at the time was cold and aloof on a good day and aggressive and angry on a bad. No one knew me deeply at the time. Not even myself. 

I assume there's a bit of leeway given to how they do the process. I know one patriarch I met set aside a room in their home for the work. Mine did it smack dab in the middle of his living room. I don't think either was right or wrong to do so

 

With luv,

BD 

Yep. I think they pretty much do whatever works for them. 

[BlueDreams]

3 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Yep. I think they pretty much do whatever works for them. 

To a degree. I do know they do have a portion of their blessings reviewed based on an interview I saw with another patriarch. So there's at least some guidance or expectations as to what to do, but there does seem to be a good amount of leeway to whatever guidance they're given on it.  

 

With luv,

BD

[nuclearfuels]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:04 PM, MustardSeed said:

type-o

I thought mine would specifically state I would be the Conductor of Chaos and Director of Doom in the last days. 

This was after fasting for two days and being raised in UT. So I missed something on the way there, I guess.

As adults I think we have all realized that some/most/all of the P. blessing blessings require work and diligence on our part - which might make them reviewed a bit less often.

[Diamondhands69]

2 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

To a degree. I do know they do have a portion of their blessings reviewed based on an interview I saw with another patriarch. So there's at least some guidance or expectations as to what to do, but there does seem to be a good amount of leeway to whatever guidance they're given on it.  

 

With luv,

BD

Yep- stake pres reviews every single one of them. Someone else above ?? Mebbe

[Duncan]

2 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Yep- stake pres reviews every single one of them. Someone else above ?? Mebbe

that isn't true at all. Someone asked this at Priesthood leadership meeting sometime ago and the Seventy said nope they don't. The Patriarch gets interviewed or met with by the Stake President but they don't review the blessings given. Your info is outdated

[Calm]

5 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

Mine did it smack dab in the middle of his living room. I don't think either was right or wrong to do so

 

Mine was his office at BYU, though it was summer and probably a Sunday though it might have been just the break, but there was no one else around.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Calm

[Diamondhands69]

22 minutes ago, Duncan said:

that isn't true at all. Someone asked this at Priesthood leadership meeting sometime ago and the Seventy said nope they don't. The Patriarch gets interviewed or met with by the Stake President but they don't review the blessings given. Your info is outdated

Are you saying the stake pres cannot review a patriarchal blessing? 

[Duncan]

3 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Are you saying the stake pres cannot review a patriarchal blessing? 

I am saying you're wrong. Why on God's green earth would a Stake President review someone's PB? it isn't any of their business

[Diamondhands69]

51 minutes ago, Duncan said:

that isn't true at all. Someone asked this at Priesthood leadership meeting sometime ago and the Seventy said nope they don't. The Patriarch gets interviewed or met with by the Stake President but they don't review the blessings given. Your info is outdated

Your seventy needs to check himself… 

“At least twice a year, the stake president reviews the blessings the patriarch has given. As needed, he may make general suggestions about the content of the patriarch’s blessings.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/6-stake-leadership?lang=eng

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Diamondhands69

[Diamondhands69]

8 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I am saying you're wrong. Why on God's green earth would a Stake President review someone's PB? it isn't any of their business

Dude I grew up in a stake pres household.  Know their job and the politics too. It is their business. The SP is the patriarch’s supervisor. 
 

Now who is wrong?

Edited December 21, 2023 by Diamondhands69

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Duncan said:

I am saying you're wrong. Why on God's green earth would a Stake President review someone's PB? it isn't any of their business

My guess is the reviews are mostly to ensure the members are getting their blessings in a timely manner, but also confidentiality is also ensured by proper disposal after transcription, etc and he reviews content to make sure no pet hobbies creep in to the blessings and possibly if the blessings tend to run short and cliched, to encourage the patriarch to better prepare himself for inspiration.

No church leader should operate without some oversight, imo, so it seems intelligent to do so to me.

Does the two leader rule apply to stake patriarchs?  I am guessing if it’s in their home, their wife can easily serve as the second one present, but when meeting them elsewhere, I wonder.   I would have been alone by choice in mine (so I could concentrate) except I had to borrow my grandmother’s car as I was staying with her during the break and she assumed she was invited along and I didn’t have the heart to tell her no when she wanted to say hi to a former colleague.  There wasn’t even anyone in the larger English Dept office he had his office inside.  I doubt anyone would have heard me yell if he had gone suddenly psycho (which wouldn’t have happened, just describing the surroundings).  But that was 45ish years ago and hopefully rules have changed for both the patriarchs and the members’ sake.  Having a second person there just in case the member shows up by themselves seems wise to me.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Calm

[Duncan]

4 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Dude I grew up in a stake pres household.  Know their job and the politics too. It is their business. The SP is the patriarch’s supervisor. 
 

Now who is wrong?

who cares what they did 50 years ago? things change, if they ever did it at all

you are still wrong

Edited December 21, 2023 by Duncan

[Duncan]

4 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Your seventy needs to check himself… 

“At least twice a year, the stake president reviews the blessings the patriarch has given. As needed, he may make general suggestions about the content of the patriarch’s blessings.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/6-stake-leadership?lang=eng

 

 

 

that doesn't mean anything, you even said yourself that 

"I hope you don’t believe majority actually follow the book. I have lived in the inner workings at higher than sp level and I can say with utmost confidence the manual is nothing but a guideline. The odds of being held to account for not following it are pretty low. "

[Diamondhands69]

3 hours ago, Duncan said:

that doesn't mean anything, you even said yourself that 

"I hope you don’t believe majority actually follow the book. I have lived in the inner workings at higher than sp level and I can say with utmost confidence the manual is nothing but a guideline. The odds of being held to account for not following it are pretty low. "

Yep I agree church leaders don’t follow the book… just like the seventy you quoted. He apparently doesn’t know what it even says. 
 

doesn’t change the fact the content of each blessing is the stake president’s business… well at least according to the prophet. if the SP is  doing his job, he will review each blessing whether you like it or not. He can also choose to not review it, just like the seventy said who was running his mouth spreading bad info. One thing  that guy needs to learn is as a senior leader to never make public statements contrary to church doctrine or policy. Annnnnd needs to realize anytime he speaks in a church setting he represents church policy. If it his opinion SPs are not to read the blessings than prob a good idea to state it is personal opinion. If you don’t know the policy don’t make one up. 

 

odds are that seventy used to be a stake pres and probably didn’t review the blessings as a matter of how he did or didn’t do his job. Why he told someone  blessings are not reviewed is beyond me, but he is clearly wrong. It is church policy to do so regardless if some do it or not. 
 

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Diamondhands69