Patriarchal Blessings

[Diamondhands69]

50 minutes ago, webbles said:

Do you know if this is actually in a teaching given to patriarchs?

I found a 1999 article by Armand Mauss in the Journal of Mormon History that goes over the history of assigning lineage - https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1032&context=mormonhistory.  Starts on page 135 in the pdf or 132 by the paper page number.

He talks about how the Smiths were identified as from Ephraim but other members were from other lineages.  Then most members were from Ephraim and since most members were from England and the Nordic countries, it was believed that those countries were of Ephraim.  The rest of Europe (Spain, France, Italy, etc) was not as receptive so they were either not from Ephraim or had no Abraham blood (pdf page 162).  A South American mission president in 1936 believed that Latin countries (Italy, Spain) only gained Israelite blood because of invasions from Germanic tribes (pdf page 171).

He also asked a few dozen patriarchs "to explain how they understand their citing of a person's lineage" (pdf page 172).  Their responses ranged from "pure inspiration" to "always Ephraim".  Some would mostly do Ephraim but be "inspired" to rare lineages at times (Mauss said "perhaps for manifest racial reasons") and others said that the lineage had nothing to do with actual ancestry.

I think the real answer is they are making it all up. 
 

it is especially easy to do when the patriarchs stake is 99% white and nearly that BIC.

Edited January 7, 2024 by Diamondhands69

[webbles]

3 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

I think the real answer is they are making it all up. 

That is one way to look at it.

Edited January 7, 2024 by webbles

[BlueDreams]

12 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

I don’t know what a faith promoting rumor is. My understanding is BIC and anglo or at least appearing to be Anglo will be tribe of Ephraim. Hispanic, Tongan etc I’m told are typically Manasseh. As previously discussed, most of but all Anglo’s have black /african blood yet are from Ephraim and Helen the priesthood prior to 1978. All that shows is discernment is fake. Since the church doesn’t talk about all this we are left to rumor, gossip, opinion of patriarchs etc. none of which are reliable in my book. I have two patriarchs in my family (well had). They sometimes talk patriarch stuff. The lanes say thing I have heard long before either of them were patriarchs. We had kids from Indian placement program in our home and that is when I learned about the manessah thing. 

 

This is one of the reasons a patriarch likes to meet with blessing recipients prior. So they can learn about you, your family and maybe pick out some clues… you know so they can be inspired to tell you what your lineage is among other things. 
 

go to the fuller consideration website and read some of the blessings posted there. Some real doozies. There’s reasons these things get reviewed. 

Do you look white or native? 

Just to throw in a monkey wrench. I am half Nigerian. If you google a black/white mixed race person I look like that: light to medium brown skin, super curly brown hair, dark brown eyes, full lips (that are not blue ), small button nose. 

In short I am very obviously not just white.

My lineage is Ephraim. The exact wording is that I will be "one of the strongest members" of the tribe of Ephraim and that i'm a member of the house of israel "by birthright." (Just as a reminder, I had no previous interview with my Patriarch, he asked no personally questions about me, he was your usual older age, and I was newly in TX, with my mom and step-dad, who's of Mexican decent. People don't usually think I look like my mother since we have very different body types and dominant features. They often assume I'm adopted when I'm with my mom's side of my family. And in Texas they tend to be more racially rigid when it comes to racial categorization... especially when I lived there).

My husband, who is Peruvian, is also of the tribe of Ephraim. He received his blessing in Peru. 

I have heard the Manasseh thing (that people of the lineages you mentioned tend to have more people described as part of that tribe. Most likely because of presumed ties to Lehi). But that's not a set rule or outcome. 

As I mentioned, that different peoples are associated with different tribes doesn't prove or disprove blessings entirely. No revelatory//inspirational process is perfect and our spiritual impressions are absolutely connected to how we see things in any given moment. But it also doesn't mean there isn't aggregate truth even if the tribe aspect is off or presumed based on assumptions/understandings. 

FTR, I don't really think about my lineage much. I don't care if it's really by birthright or not. I think it does fit the general flow of my blessing and aspects of it that I do find deeper importance for my life. So I don't mind it either. I've heard it said that what's most important is just being a part of the house of israel. I'm part of it, so I don't think a out it much past that.

 

With luv,

BD 

Edited January 7, 2024 by BlueDreams

[Stargazer]

On 1/7/2024 at 3:46 PM, BlueDreams said:

Just to throw in a monkey wrench. I am half Nigerian. If you google a black/white mixed race person I look like that: light to medium brown skin, super curly brown hair, dark brown eyes, full lips (that are not blue ), small button nose. 

In short I am very obviously not just white.

My lineage is Ephraim. The exact wording is that I will be "one of the strongest members" of the tribe of Ephraim and that i'm a member of the house of israel "by birthright." (Just as a reminder, I had no previous interview with my Patriarch, he asked no personally questions about me, he was your usual older age, and I was newly in TX, with my mom and step-dad, who's of Mexican decent. People don't usually think I look like my mother since we have very different body types and dominant features. They often assume I'm adopted when I'm with my mom's side of my family. And in Texas they tend to be more racially rigid when it comes to racial categorization... especially when I lived there).

My husband, who is Peruvian, is also of the tribe of Ephraim. He received his blessing in Peru. 

I have heard the Manasseh thing (that people of the lineages you mentioned tend to have more people described as part of that tribe. Most likely because of presumed ties to Lehi). But that's not a set rule or outcome. 

As I mentioned, that different peoples are associated with different tribes doesn't prove or disprove blessings entirely. No revelatory//inspirational process is perfect and our spiritual impressions are absolutely connected to how we see things in any given moment. But it also doesn't mean there isn't aggregate truth even if the tribe aspect is off or presumed based on assumptions/understandings. 

FTR, I don't really think about my lineage much. I don't care if it's really by birthright or not. I think it does fit the general flow of my blessing and aspects of it that I do find deeper importance for my life. So I don't mind it either. I've heard it said that what's most important is just being a part of the house of israel. I'm part of it, so I don't think a out it much past that.

 

With luv,

BD 

Because of this thread and lineage discussion in particular, since I'm one of our stake patriarch's ministering brothers, I thought I would talk with him about this on Sunday after Sacrament meeting. He said that he has given a total of 260 blessings since he was called, and only 2 were not declared of Ephraim. I wasn't able to ask him what tribes those 2 were, due to press of interruptions. But he did say that when he was called to be a patriarch the lineage declaration thing was the thing that worried him the most, but discovered that all he had to do was just follow the Spirit and it came naturally. 

What interrupted the conversation was that he had brought the printed out copy of a patriarchal blessing that he had given to a new member of our ward, and wanted to hand it to her personally. If I remember correctly, this member is from either Kenya or Uganda. I didn't feel it appropriate to ask him what her tribe was.

[Stargazer]

On 1/7/2024 at 5:26 AM, Diamondhands69 said:

I think the real answer is they are making it all up. 

Of course you would think that. No surprise there.

I have reason to believe that in the vast majority of cases it's a genuine revelation from the Lord. 

On 1/7/2024 at 5:26 AM, Diamondhands69 said:

it is especially easy to do when the patriarchs stake is 99% white and nearly that BIC.

In another post, I mention a conversation with our stake patriarch who told me that in all but 2 of his 260 blessings declared the recipient was declared to be of Ephraim. I suppose patriarchs could just take it as a given that every person will be declared of Ephraim, but be open to the impression that it could be an exception.

[Stargazer]

On 1/7/2024 at 3:34 AM, Diamondhands69 said:

I don’t know what a faith promoting rumor is.

Interesting that you've not heard of this term!

Basically, a "faith promoting rumor" is the LDS version of "urban legend." For example, one "faith promoting rumor" that I heard once was that some patriarch or other had declared to someone that he would be one of the two prophets killed in Jerusalem as part of the festivities surrounding the return of the Savior.  Or that the current prophet had been secretly told that he would be the one who would welcome the Savior when he came again. 

I've heard some real whoppers in my 55+ years in the church.

In connection with what I was discussing with you, this wondering if something you wrote was something that you had heard about procedures dealing with patriarchs - was it fact, or a something that you had heard that may or may not have been the case.

See the FAIR website.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2024 by Stargazer