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The Hancock Prophecy


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I'm not one to put stock in unverifiable prophecies and random hearsay but I've been thinking lately about just how eerily accurate the Hancock Prophecy is turning out to be.

Does anyone know anything to promote or question its authenticity?  I have long expressed doubts in the accuracy of his famous vision but this record continues to match history in ways Hancock couldn't have predicted.

Quote

The Hancock Prophecy

There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be
called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties
will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in
foreign lands until other nations will say, "Let's divide up the lands of the United States," then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers that the land shall not be divided.
Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. Army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle.
They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up -when the boys from the mountains will rush
forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they
will say, "Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God." Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were.

- Prophet and Presidential candidate Joseph Smith, 19 June, 1844, as recorded in the autobiography of Mosiah Lyman Hancock

The bold parts seem to be well under way, the underlined part probably coming soon.

How many elements would need to come to pass before we began watching for the rest.

Any thoughts?

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My wife  & I had just spoken of this 'prophecy' a couple of weeks ago. I have difficulty imagining a scenario where foreign powers decide the US should be split and then are willing to spend their blood treasure trying to make it so. Who knows how much would have to happen in the States for that one step to become a realistic possibility? 

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On 11/15/2023 at 5:22 PM, JLHPROF said:

I'm not one to put stock in unverifiable prophecies and random hearsay but I've been thinking lately about just how eerily accurate the Hancock Prophecy is turning out to be.

Does anyone know anything to promote or question its authenticity?  I have long expressed doubts in the accuracy of his famous vision but this record continues to match history in ways Hancock couldn't have predicted.

The bold parts seem to be well under way, the underlined part probably coming soon.

How many elements would need to come to pass before we began watching for the rest.

Any thoughts?

I read this prophecy way back in the 1980s while I was about 15 and it has remained with ever since for one reason or another.  I cannot say it will happen or not but as as time passes I can see it happening more and more.  Our country is weaker than it has ever been.  Our military is built on many very expensive high tech weapons that are extremely expensive and take a long time to replace.  The Ukraine war as exposed this great weakness of our country.  Despite our massive military spending over decades, we don't have enough weapons to supply to Ukraine without depleting our supplies.  Supplies that will take years to replace.   All it will take is a few moderate wars to make our military really weak.  Add to that our national debt of over 30 trillion we are in big trouble in the long run.   We will be spending more on servicing the national debt than defense.  Add defense and debt payments, it will be half of our budget. 

Since this prophecy has been in my head for so many years, when I came across the George Washington vision, I noticed immediately connection between this prophecy and the Washington vision.  The 3rd peril matches the Joseph Smith vision but just is told in a different way or perspective.    I will reproduce the Washington vision here with the 3rd Peril in bold.   Read the Joseph Smith and 3rd Peril side by side.  The First peril is the Revolutionary War and the 2nd Peril is the Civil War.  You will find it quite interesting.  Compare the white spirits coming down from heaven in the Washington vision with the boys of the mountain with the Priesthood coming down both to join with a US military that is about to be defeated. 

 

"George Washington's Vision"

This afternoon, as I was sitting at this table engaged in preparing a dispatch, something seemed to disturb me. Looking up, I beheld standing opposite me a singularly beautiful female. So astonished was I, for I had given strict orders not to be disturbed, that it was some moments before I found language to inquire the cause of her presence. A second, a third and even a fourth time did I repeat my question, but received no answer from my mysterious visitor except a slight raising of her eyes.

By this time I felt strange sensations spreading through me. I would have risen but the riveted gaze of the being before me rendered volition impossible. I assayed once more to address her, but my tongue had become useless, as though it had become paralyzed.

A new influence, mysterious, potent, irresistible, took possession of me. All I could do was to gaze steadily, vacantly at my unknown visitor. Gradually the surrounding atmosphere seemed as if it had become filled with sensations, and luminous. Everything about me seemed to rarefy, the mysterious visitor herself becoming more airy and yet more distinct to my sight than before. I now began to feel as one dying, or rather to experience the sensations which I have sometimes imagined accompany dissolution. I did not think, I did not reason, I did not move; all were alike impossible. I was only conscious of gazing fixedly, vacantly at my companion.

Presently I heard a voice saying, "Son of the Republic, look and learn," while at the same time my visitor extended her arm eastwardly, I now beheld a heavy white vapor at some distance rising fold upon fold. This gradually dissipated, and I looked upon a stranger scene. Before me lay spread out in one vast plain all the countries of the world — Europe, Asia, Africa and America. I saw rolling and tossing between Europe and America the billows of the Atlantic, and between Asia and America lay the Pacific.

"Son of the Republic," said the same mysterious voice as before, "look and learn." At that moment I beheld a dark, shadowy being, like an angel, standing or rather floating in mid-air, between Europe and America. Dipping water out of the ocean in the hollow of each hand, he sprinkled some upon America with his right hand, while with his left hand he cast some on Europe. Immediately a cloud raised from these countries, and joined in mid-ocean. For a while it remained stationary, and then moved slowly westward, until it enveloped America in its murky folds. Sharp flashes of lightning gleamed through it at intervals, and I heard the smothered groans and cries of the American people.

A second time the angel dipped water from the ocean, and sprinkled it out as before. The dark cloud was then drawn back to the ocean, in whose heaving billows in sank from view. A third time I heard the mysterious voice saying, "Son of the Republic, look and learn," I cast my eyes upon America and beheld villages and towns and cities springing up one after another until the whole land from the Atlantic to the Pacific was dotted with them.

Again, I heard the mysterious voice say, "Son of the Republic, the end of the century cometh, look and learn." At this the dark shadowy angel turned his face southward, and from Africa I saw an ill omened specter approach our land. It flitted slowly over every town and city of the latter. The inhabitants presently set themselves in battle array against each other. As I continued looking I saw a bright angel, on whose brow rested a crown of light, on which was traced the word "Union," bearing the American flag which he placed between the divided nation, and said, "Remember ye are brethren." Instantly, the inhabitants, casting from them their weapons became friends once more, and united around the National Standard.

"And again I heard the mysterious voice saying "Son of the Republic, look and learn." At this the dark, shadowy angel placed a trumpet to his mouth, and blew three distinct blasts; and taking water from the ocean, he sprinkled it upon Europe, Asia and Africa. Then my eyes beheld a fearful scene: From each of these countries arose thick, black clouds that were soon joined into one. Throughout this mass there gleamed a dark red light by which I saw hordes of armed men, who, moving with the cloud, marched by land and sailed by sea to America. Our country was enveloped in this volume of cloud, and I saw these vast armies devastate the whole county and burn the villages, towns and cities that I beheld springing up. As my ears listened to the thundering of the cannon, clashing of sword, and the shouts and cries of millions in mortal combat, I heard again the mysterious voice saying, "Son of the Republic, look and learn" When the voice had ceased, the dark shadowy angel placed his trumpet once more to his mouth, and blew a long and fearful blast. "Instantly a light as of a thousand suns shone down from above me, and pierced and broke into fragments the dark cloud which enveloped America. At the same moment the angel upon whose head still shone the word Union, and who bore our national flag in one hand and a sword in the other, descended from the heavens attended by legions of white spirits. These immediately joined the inhabitants of America, who I perceived were will nigh overcome, but who immediately taking courage again, closed up their broken ranks and renewed the battle.

Again, amid the fearful noise of the conflict, I heard the mysterious voice saying, "Son of the Republic, look and learn." As the voice ceased, the shadowy angel for the last time dipped water from the ocean and sprinkled it upon America. Instantly the dark cloud rolled back, together with the armies it had brought, leaving the inhabitants of the land victorious!

Then once more I beheld the villages, towns and cities springing up where I had seen them before, while the bright angel, planting the azure standard he had brought in the midst of them, cried with a loud voice: "While the stars remain, and the heavens send down dew upon the earth, so long shall the Union last." And taking from his brow the crown on which blazoned the word "Union," he placed it upon the Standard while the people, kneeling down, said, "Amen."

The scene instantly began to fade and dissolve, and I at last saw nothing but the rising, curling vapor I at first beheld. This also disappearing, I found myself once more gazing upon the mysterious visitor, who, in the same voice I had heard before, said, "Son of the Republic, what you have seen is thus interpreted: Three great perils will come upon the Republic. The most fearful is the third, but in this greatest conflict the whole world united shall not prevail against her. Let every child of the Republic learn to live for his God, his land and the Union." With these words the vision vanished, and I started from my seat and felt that I had seen a vision wherein had been shown to me the birth, progress, and destiny of the United States.

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On 11/15/2023 at 6:02 PM, webbles said:

It appears the prophecy comes from Mosiah Hancock's autobiography.  An online version of the entire autobiography appears to be http://boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/MHancock.html

At the time that Mosiah would have heard the prophecy, he would be 10 (he was born in 1834 and the prophecy was given in 1844).  The autobiography wasn't written till 1865.  I have some difficulties with believing that a 10 year old could remember the exact words of prophecy and then put them down in writing 21 years later.  So if there was a prophecy, I don't think we can look at the exact words from Mosiah but the general idea of what he is saying.

At the time the prophecy was said to be given, there was no such thing as the Republican party.  It wasn't founded until 1854.  At the time, the Whig party and the Democratic party where the two main parties.

At the time that the autobiography was written, the civil war was near its end.  That was an actual war between the Republican party and the Democratic party.

I question the authenticity of it.  I think Joseph Smith might have said something like it but I don't think it named parties.

I agree that the odds of Mosiah recalling this from memory so many years later when he was 10 with the details so specific are very small.  But the prophecy is there so where did this most likely come from? In my mind, either Mosiah or someone else recorded it when Joseph Smith said it and Mosiah retained the record in his collection of stuff and quoted from it that record in his autobiography.   The original apparently is lost but that should not be unusual.   Most documents written in the 19th century are lost to us. 

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2 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I agree that the odds of Mosiah recalling this from memory so many years later when he was 10 with the details so specific are very small.  But the prophecy is there so where did this most likely come from? In my mind, either Mosiah or someone else recorded it when Joseph Smith said it and Mosiah retained the record in his collection of stuff and quoted from it that record in his autobiography.   The original apparently is lost but that should not be unusual.   Most documents written in the 19th century are lost to us. 

The prophecy has a similarity with the White Horse prophecy, D&C 87, and the prophecies related to the Rocky Mountain (https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Joseph_Smith's_Rocky_Mountain_prophecy).  So, I agree that Joseph Smith probably said something similar to it, but I believe that Mosiah recontextualized his memory of what Joseph Smith said with the current situation.  The US had barely survived a war between the North states and the South states as well as between the Republican party and the Democrat party.

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4 hours ago, Vanguard said:

My wife  & I had just spoken of this 'prophecy' a couple of weeks ago. I have difficulty imagining a scenario where foreign powers decide the US should be split and then are willing to spend their blood treasure trying to make it so. Who knows how much would have to happen in the States for that one step to become a realistic possibility? 

Why spend blood when they can control with debt?

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On 11/15/2023 at 5:22 PM, JLHPROF said:

I'm not one to put stock in unverifiable prophecies and random hearsay but I've been thinking lately about just how eerily accurate the Hancock Prophecy is turning out to be.

Does anyone know anything to promote or question its authenticity?  I have long expressed doubts in the accuracy of his famous vision but this record continues to match history in ways Hancock couldn't have predicted.

The bold parts seem to be well under way, the underlined part probably coming soon.

How many elements would need to come to pass before we began watching for the rest.

Any thoughts?

Isn't this "politics"? =Complete with "SCARE QUOTES"

😵😩

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5 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

"George Washington's Vision"

Interesting vision but I highly doubt George Washington had it.  The earliest reference I can find to it was around 1860 (see http://www.liberty1.org/gwvision.htm and https://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/washington/vision.html and https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/george-washingtons-vision/).  If you have an earlier source, I'd love to see it.

Per those references, it looks like the vision was first told in 1859 by a 99 year old veteran of the Revolutionary War.  He is talking about an event that happened in 1777, 82 years earlier when he would have been 17.  That is an impressive memory to remember that long of a vision.

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3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Isn't this "politics"? =Complete with "SCARE QUOTES"

😵😩

You could dismiss a lot of scripture and prophetic teaching using that excuse.

I don't think discussing potential prophecies that may be beginning to be fulfilled in front of us is politics.

There ARE two major parties.  The names match the prophecy.  They are at war in a sense.  There are a large number of independent voters not in either party.

So far I think it's fulfilled.  What's the next part?  Do we think it could happen soon?

This isn't politics any more than D&C 87 is pro-North propaganda.  It's what we expect prophets to do - warn us.

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1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

There ARE two major parties. 

Weren’t there two major parties back then, Democrats and Whigs?  And two major parties since almost the beginning of the US?***

And haven’t they mostly been at war in a sense?**** Even to the point of violence (apparently many Democrats even supported the assassination of Republican Lincoln by nonDemocrat Booth; just read it in a Time magazine article that then focused on current politics, so can’t use it as a reference). **

Republicans were around by the time the alleged prophecy was recorded.  He could have misremembered.

And haven’t there been large numbers of independent voters in the past?  1/4 of voters identified themselves as independent when it was first started to be counted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_voter

**https://www.factcheck.org/2022/04/posts-make-unfounded-claims-about-political-affiliation-of-john-wilkes-booth/

***https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_in_the_United_States#/media/File:PartyVotes-Presidents.png

****

Quote

This Second Party System came into being during a period when American political life was democratized; slates of presidential electors were popularly elected; property qualifications for voting were dropped; and electoral participation increased dramatically. For example, voter turnout increased from 26.9 percent of eligible voters in 1824 to 78.9 percent in 1848. Party nominating procedures were also opened to wider participation as the congressional caucus was replaced by the national convention.

In the two decades that followed Jackson's reelection in 1832, the Whigs and Democrats were engaged in an intense struggle for the newly expanded electorate. They engaged in popularized campaigning, torchlight parades, rallies, picnics, campaign songs, and slogans like "Tippecanoe and Tyler too." Both parties organized state and local parties and ran full slates of candidates under a party label. In this atmosphere of partisan mobilization, voters began to see themselves as either Whigs or Democrats. Unlike the Federalists, who had been reluctant to court popular support, the Whigs did so with zeal. As the national minority party, one of their favorite techniques was to run military heroes with an appeal above party for president. They did this in four of six elections and were successful twice-in 1840 with William Henry Harrison and in 1848 with Zachary Taylor. In nine of eleven elections, however, the majority Democrats won control of the Congress.

Both the Democrats and the Whigs were truly national parties which engaged in relatively close competition not only at the national level but also in each region and in most states. For example, such old bastions of Jefferson's as Georgia, North Carolina, Louisiana, and Tennessee divided their support quite evenly between the Whigs and Democrats as did the Middle Atlantic states. Ladd has observed that in the 1836-1852 period, the "United States had less regional variation in voting than at any other time in history." This lack of sectionalism in American politics was a tribute to the skills of Democratic and Whig leaders in balancing the interests of farmers, manufacturing and mercantile interests, nativists, immigrants, Catholics, and Protestants. Both parties were broad coalitions which sought backing throughout the country, with the Whigs attracting proportionately more support from manufacturing and trading interests, planners, and old Protestant stock, while the Democrats did well among newly enfranchised voters, western farmers, Catholics, and new immigrants.

 

Edited by Calm
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11 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I read this prophecy way back in the 1980s while I was about 15 and it has remained with ever since for one reason or another.  I cannot say it will happen or not but as as time passes I can see it happening more and more.  Our country is weaker than it has ever been.  Our military is built on many very expensive high tech weapons that are extremely expensive and take a long time to replace.  The Ukraine war as exposed this great weakness of our country.  Despite our massive military spending over decades, we don't have enough weapons to supply to Ukraine without depleting our supplies.  Supplies that will take years to replace.   All it will take is a few moderate wars to make our military really weak.  Add to that our national debt of over 30 trillion we are in big trouble in the long run.   We will be spending more on servicing the national debt than defense.  Add defense and debt payments, it will be half of our budget. 

This just isn’t true. Weaker than it has ever been? When the Second World War started the United States had a smaller army than Greece.

Also a lot of the Ukraine aid was second-rate military equipment that was more than capable of matching or outmatching Russian equipment. The United States is not weak. Ukraine has cost the US military much less per year than Afghanistan and Iraq did. We also aren’t taking casualties. There are legitimate US military security concerns. The Navy is facing a bit of a problem fracturing into three primary schools of thought on what the future of the branch is and what its priorities should be but the Navy isn’t giving a ton of kit to Ukraine. Ukraine is also giving us real-time combat data about our kit. This gives us a big leg up in future conflicts.

Ukraine is also possibly the BEST military investment the US has ever made. At the cost of a small fraction of our yearly military budget and with almost no risk to US military personnel we have contributed to the destruction of about 50% of the military kit the Russians had when they started. One of the two big competitors to the United States is being trashed and it is cheap. And much of the money we are sending them gets funneled into our own military industrial complex which increases our production capability. Compare that to military aid to Israel where we get an “ally” that still cozies up to Russia, isn’t meaningfully representing our shared interests, and is committing war crimes with our military aid and I am not just talking about the current conflict. I mean we were supporting those settlements in the West Bank that are making peace impossible.

Also the United States actually maintains its nuclear weapons. While there are problems with our nuclear weapons programs they work. The idea of nations carving us up won’t work unless that threat is somehow neutered.

In any case people are talking as if Israel and Ukraine are ongoing US conflicts like Afghanistan and Iraq. They are not.

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13 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Our country is weaker than it has ever been. 

Which is weaker: a child lifting 100 lbs or an adult lifting 200 lbs?

A woman lifting as much as a man?

There is no way to judge what this means; it all is an ambiguous comparison of undefined variables.

Could our present armed forces "beat" our 1780 forces? 

The comparison is meaningless 

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21 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Supplies that will take years to replace.   All it will take is a few moderate wars to make our military really weak.  Add to that our national debt of over 30 trillion we are in big trouble in the long run.   We will be spending more on servicing the national debt than defense.  Add defense and debt payments, it will be half of our budget. 

The US economy is larger than the economies of Japan, Germany, India, United Kingdom, France, Russia, Canada, Italy, Brazil, and Australia combined.  China’s economy is $7 trillion behind us.  If “$7 trillion” were a country, it would be the third largest economy in the world.

Our military budget is the countries of Russia, India, Saudi Arabia, United Kingdom, Germany, France, South Korea, Japan, Ukraine, Italy, Australia, Canada, and Israel combined, with $240 billion to spare.  

The dollar isn’t backed by gold, true.  It’s backed by something better:  the single most powerful military in the whole of human history.  Our semiconductors and electronics in conjunction with our weapon systems is unparalleled.  

One of the serious concerns with a direct conflict with NATO would be that the resulting Russian catastrophe (see The Battle of Khasham for an example) would have had Putin reaching for the tactical nuke button.  Basically throwing a frog in an already boiling pot.  You’ll notice that every Russian “Red Line” in Ukraine has been crossed since the initial invasion.  The slog in Ukraine has allowed the heat to be turned up gradually, inflicting catastrophic losses for Russia.

The debt used to bother me, but not so much anymore.  Infrastructure, military, government services pretty much have a blank check for all I care.  The problem we’re facing was too much money was handed out to consumers the past couple years, supply chain issues that still need resolving, and people refusing to change spending habits when interest rates and prices went higher .  That’ll probably get hashed out eventually, but I’m not so sure an economic catastrophe is in the cards like I was last year. 

We have our issues to be sure, public education is one that greatly bothers me, but “weakness” isn’t one of them.

 

 

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6 hours ago, SteveO said:

The US economy is larger than the economies of Japan, Germany, India, United Kingdom, France, Russia, Canada, Italy, Brazil, and Australia combined.  China’s economy is $7 trillion behind us.  If “$7 trillion” were a country, it would be the third largest economy in the world.

Our military budget is the countries of Russia, India, Saudi Arabia, United Kingdom, Germany, France, South Korea, Japan, Ukraine, Italy, Australia, Canada, and Israel combined, with $240 billion to spare.  

The dollar isn’t backed by gold, true.  It’s backed by something better:  the single most powerful military in the whole of human history.  Our semiconductors and electronics in conjunction with our weapon systems is unparalleled.  

One of the serious concerns with a direct conflict with NATO would be that the resulting Russian catastrophe (see The Battle of Khasham for an example) would have had Putin reaching for the tactical nuke button.  Basically throwing a frog in an already boiling pot.  You’ll notice that every Russian “Red Line” in Ukraine has been crossed since the initial invasion.  The slog in Ukraine has allowed the heat to be turned up gradually, inflicting catastrophic losses for Russia.

The debt used to bother me, but not so much anymore.  Infrastructure, military, government services pretty much have a blank check for all I care.  The problem we’re facing was too much money was handed out to consumers the past couple years, supply chain issues that still need resolving, and people refusing to change spending habits when interest rates and prices went higher .  That’ll probably get hashed out eventually, but I’m not so sure an economic catastrophe is in the cards like I was last year. 

We have our issues to be sure, public education is one that greatly bothers me, but “weakness” isn’t one of them.

Also for a short breakdown in answer to the idea that foreign military support is a waste:

Click for the longer version.

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18 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

You could dismiss a lot of scripture and prophetic teaching using that excuse.

I don't think discussing potential prophecies that may be beginning to be fulfilled in front of us is politics.

There ARE two major parties.  The names match the prophecy.  They are at war in a sense.  There are a large number of independent voters not in either party.

So far I think it's fulfilled.  What's the next part?  Do we think it could happen soon?

This isn't politics any more than D&C 87 is pro-North propaganda.  It's what we expect prophets to do - warn us.

The names match the prophecy? The prophecy wasn’t publicized until those were the names of the two parties. That is not particularly impressive. It is also worth noting that there were Whigs calling themselves Republicans at the time this was supposedly said.

They are at war in a sense? Political parties are in conflict all the time. They were at greater war in 1861.

I really wonder if this is just misremembered rhetoric from Joseph Smith’s presidential campaign.

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