A fun new toy..

[LoudmouthMormon]

Couldn't have put it better myself.  Although interesting misspelling when quoting scripture.  

 

Quote

So, I go to an online discussion forum where folks interested in churchy topics can get together and argue. One poster has "always be punching nazis" in his signature line. What's up with that?

Ah, I see. ☺️ Just to clarify, are you asking for a Latter-day Saint perspective on the idea of "always punching Nazis," which seems to be a metaphorical (hopefully!) expression by this poster? People put a lot of different things in their signature lines - some funny, some serious. This one certainly packs a punch! 😉 If I understand your question correctly, you're interested in understanding and discussing this topic from a church perspective, correct?

 

 

YOU

sure

Alrighty then! 😊 From a Latter-day Saint standpoint, we are taught about the importance of peace, love, kindness, and understanding in all our interactions. Jesus Christ himself, who we follow, taught, “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecive you” (Matthew 5:44).

Even though Nazis and their ideology are generally regarded as symbols of hatred, a phrase like "always be punching Nazis" isn't really in line with the Latter-day Saint philosophy of loving and understanding others, even our enemies. We believe everyone is a child of God, and treat them with love and respect.

However, if the expression is meant to signify standing up to racism, bigotry, and hatred, members of the Church would certainly agree with that sentiment. The Church has made clear statements against racism and bigotry. We should always stand against prejudice and injustice.

Does that help answer your question, or is there something else you'd like to know? 😊

 

[T-Shirt]

59 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

thst said I sure hope destroying it was worth dying for. That is an outcome I’m sure was not anticipated. 

Destroying the press was a bad idea, although there was precedent for doing so. However, doing so is not, nor was at that time, a capital offence. No one should have died over it. Joseph never should have been held in that jail. Beside Joseph and Hiram's deaths, the real tragedy was the Governor's order to hold them in jail under charge of treason, which was a false and illegal charge. To top it off, he then put the Carthage Grey's in charge of security. The Governor was either naïve, incompetent or complicit. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by T-Shirt

[Pyreaux]

Govenor Ford was complicit in the political assassination of the presidential candidate Joseph Smith. Ford thought Joseph would interfere with the election of the Kentuckian Henry Clay. He "disbanded" the Warsaw Militia, basically sent the Warsaw Militia back to assassinate Joseph. The Carthage Grays expected them with guns loaded with blanks. Anyone thinking it was all over a local newspaper 30 miles away from Warsaw is blinded with hatred. Joseph Smith was killed by evil men for the sake of power. He was a better man than anyone thinking he brought it on himself.

[Diamondhands69]

2 hours ago, T-Shirt said:

Destroying the press was a bad idea, although there was precedent for doing so. However, doing so is not, nor was at that time, a capital offence. No one should have died over it. Joseph never should have been held in that jail. Beside Joseph and Hiram's deaths, the real tragedy was the Governor's order to hold them in jail under charge of treason, which was a false and illegal charge. To top it off, he then put the Carthage Grey's in charge of security. The Governor was either naïve, incompetent or complicit. 

I didn’t say it was a capitol offense. He wasn’t tried, found guilty of and executed by the state for a capitol crime and I never said he was. 
 

he was upset at the exposure of polygamy, his involvement in it and also the disclosure he had been announted king of the world.  Sure he wanted it to remain secret but too bad sooo sad. Go around propositioning other mens wives and marrying them, sending men in missions and marrying their wives while they are gone and then declaring yourself king of the world in some theocracy is gonna ruffle a feather or two. 

his choice to destroy the press and William laws rep got the wheels in motion. When everyone who hates you knows you are in custody at a jail guarded by ne’er do wels  you gonna have a problem. 
 

did he deserve to die in a two-way gunfight??? Probably not, but the actions he had been taking landed him in the predicament which ultimately led to his death. 
 

 

[Pyreaux]

17 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

did he deserve to die in a two-way gunfight??? Probably not, but the actions he had been taking landed him in the predicament which ultimately led to his death. 

That's just it. So, one man's act of self-defense against an entire army becomes a two-way gun fight? What callousness. It was cold blooded murder by a corrupt local government conspiracy to keep power. You are trying a little too hard to empathize with utter scum. Cringe.

[Diamondhands69]

1 hour ago, Pyreaux said:

That's just it. So, one man's act of self-defense against an entire army becomes a two-way gun fight? What callousness. It was cold blooded murder by a corrupt local government conspiracy to keep power. You are trying a little too hard to empathize with utter scum. Cringe.

I’m not empathizing with anyone. Make up whatever you want. He chose to get crazy and destroy the press despite the paper containing facts… did he really think no one would care? 
 

like I said- his actions placed him in the hands of murderers. He could have told the truth, he could have ignored the paper but he chose to go destroy it and the rep of William law who was telling the truth. He was worried bout the paper stirring up the locals..  turned out destroying the press was what stirred them up. 
 

Must be tough to be a prophet, the mayor of a theocracy, marrying 22women behind your wife’s back, general of a made up army, running for president, friends turning on you when you try to marry their wives etc.  all this at once. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Diamondhands69

[Pyreaux]

8 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

I’m not empathizing with anyone. Make up whatever you want. He chose to get crazy and destroy the press despite the paper containing facts… did he really think no one would care? 
 

like I said- his actions placed him in the hands of murderers. He could have told the truth, he could have ignored the paper but he chose to go destroy it and the rep if William law who was telling the truth. He was worried bout the paper stirring up the locals..  turned out destroying the press was what stirred them up. 
 

Must be tough to be a prophet, the mayor of a theocracy, marrying 22women behind your wife’s back, general of a made up army, running for president, friends turning on you when you try to marry their wives etc.  all this at once. 

Joseph Smith was under orders of the City Council to shut down the press for being a public nuisance, which it was, and shutting it down was lawful. You are empathizing with murderous outlaws right now.

[Diamondhands69]

10 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Joseph Smith was under orders of the City Council to shut down the press for being a public nuisance, which it was, and shutting it down was lawful. You are empathizing with murderous outlaws right now.

By orders of the city council??? Lol that’s a joke. More than a few of them and the people testifying were polygamists themselves. One must remember Joseph smith insisted no one was practicing polygamy. 
 

Here are some of the council members / witnesses who were polygamists at the time of the Nauvoo expositor hearings:

hyrum smith married to three women 

Theodore turley four wives

john Taylor three wives

Heber c kimball 2wives and he is who gave his 14 (fourteen years old!) yr old daughter to Joseph smith who then married her 

joseph smith… who really knows how many? 37 maybe

Lyman wight  who married his second wife the same day Joseph was killed at carthage

I’m no where near the end of the list , but i don’t think I need to go on . The city council in general was in on the whole thing ( polygamy) It was a theocracy  the city council was just the enforcement arm of the church. Of course they “ordered” Joseph smith to order the press to be destroyed. All of their reputations are on the line. 
 

Anyway I wish death on no one other than those who deserve it. As for accusing me with having empathy for the murderers? Do you really think that if Joseph smith was strolling through Carthage instead of being in its jail he wouldn’t have been murdered? They had it out for him and like I said-his actions placed him in their hands is all. I’m not empathizing with the murderers. 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Diamondhands69
Added js number of wives

[Navidad]

Interesting conversation, but methinks perhaps a bit too partisan for this lighthearted thread. Why don't one of you start another thread and tell us more? I love history topics!

[T-Shirt]

17 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

I didn’t say it was a capitol offense. He wasn’t tried, found guilty of and executed by the state for a capitol crime and I never said he was. 
 

he was upset at the exposure of polygamy, his involvement in it and also the disclosure he had been announted king of the world.  Sure he wanted it to remain secret but too bad sooo sad. Go around propositioning other mens wives and marrying them, sending men in missions and marrying their wives while they are gone and then declaring yourself king of the world in some theocracy is gonna ruffle a feather or two. 

his choice to destroy the press and William laws rep got the wheels in motion. When everyone who hates you knows you are in custody at a jail guarded by ne’er do wels  you gonna have a problem. 
 

did he deserve to die in a two-way gunfight??? Probably not, but the actions he had been taking landed him in the predicament which ultimately led to his death. 
 

 

No wonder you like the Nauvoo expositor, your comments sound just like it. A sliver of truth mixed with lies, gross exaggerations, hyperbole, and slanted to deceive. Are you sure you didn't write the Navoo Expositor?

[Diamondhands69]

37 minutes ago, T-Shirt said:

No wonder you like the Nauvoo expositor, your comments sound just like it. A sliver of truth mixed with lies, gross exaggerations, hyperbole, and slanted to deceive. Are you sure you didn't write the Navoo Expositor?

There are such things as stupid questions 

[california boy]

5 hours ago, T-Shirt said:

No wonder you like the Nauvoo expositor, your comments sound just like it. A sliver of truth mixed with lies, gross exaggerations, hyperbole, and slanted to deceive. Are you sure you didn't write the Navoo Expositor?

That personal attack was uncalled for.  If you disagree, present your case.  

[halconero]

I asked it for it’s thoughts on the optimal supply of armaments to Ukraine and it ignored the question. 3/10

[Calm]

1 hour ago, halconero said:

I asked it for it’s thoughts on the optimal supply of armaments to Ukraine and it ignored the question. 3/10

It has been programmed not to talk about politics.   How very Mormon (but only in church  ).

[Navidad]

I spent about twenty minutes "talking" to the bot this morning. I do believe it is indeed a baptized bot. Doctrine is its forte; empathy? Not so much. I wonder if immersion hurt its circuits? Ha! Weak attempt at humor!

[mfbukowski]

On 9/28/2023 at 9:16 PM, Diamondhands69 said:

I’m no where near the end of the list , but i don’t think I need to go on .

You didn't need to start.

This is not exactly a newsflash hereabouts.  There has to have been fifty or more threads on polygamy here.

Are we supposed to be shocked?

😴

Edited October 2, 2023 by mfbukowski

[Diamondhands69]

3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

You didn't need to start.

This is not exactly a newsflash hereabouts.  There has to have been fifty or more threads on polygamy here.

Are we supposed to be shocked?

😴

Believe it or not, there’s still about 90% of members bumbling about who don’t even know the contents of the Nauvoo expositor. I am aware there are many threads on this- there’s always a newby reading so they will learn something.
 

same newby likely doesnt know that those who testified were secret polygamists themselves. The whole lot of them were a bunch of liars collectively. They were just as bad as the “exaggerations “ and “viscious lies” we have been told in a few church publications over the years the expositor published. Funny thing they never went into one bit of depth.

the church can fix all this mess. Ditch CFM for a year and confess to all the false history nonsense, throw those under the bus who lied and obfuscated and re -educate. Stashing this information in a series of essays no one has seen in a website no one uses isn’t how you come clean. 
 

If that happens— we maybe we can have discussions without some random person like me throwing grenades into it. Until then I will bring up factual church history any time I like- no matter what your opinion is on it. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Diamondhands69

[T-Shirt]

On 9/29/2023 at 6:24 PM, california boy said:

That personal attack was uncalled for.  If you disagree, present your case.  

I would love to present my case, but it would not be appropriate here. It would derail the thread. I already said it deserves its own thread. If you or he would like to start a new thread on the topic, I might contribute. I don't have the time to start the thread myself, although it is very tempting. Mr. Diamondhands is way off base.

[T-Shirt]

12 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Believe it or not, there’s still about 90% of members bumbling about who don’t even know the contents of the Nauvoo expositor. 

I am not sure you do.

Quote

Until then I will bring up factual church history any time I like-

This made me laugh. Start a new thread.

[Diamondhands69]

8 hours ago, T-Shirt said:

I am not sure you do.

more than the average bear that’s for sure. Most … I mean nearly every single mormon has not even read it before

8 hours ago, T-Shirt said:

This made me laugh. Start a new thread.

I just may

Edited October 3, 2023 by Diamondhands69

[rodheadlee]

On 9/28/2023 at 7:08 AM, Rain said:

Is it ok to skinny dip?

Only if you are under 30

 

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 10/1/2023 at 11:26 PM, Diamondhands69 said:

Stashing this information in a series of essays no one has seen in a website no one uses isn’t how you come clean. 

I had to chuckle.  

Standard Antimormon argument (ca. 1954-~2006): "The church lies about it's true beliefs!  It keeps secrets hidden in vaults and refuses to let anyone know about the truth!  Just try to get into the special records collections - they demand a temple recommend and a note from your bishop!"

Standard Antimormon argument (ca. 2006-present):  "The church will never tell you about their history or talk about controversial issues!  I mean sure, every historical record, including the Joseph Smith Papers project, is published on line for free, and they discuss controversial issues in a series of essays on their website, And there's the FARMS group out of BYU responding to published criticisms, but who's got the time for that!  Just try learning this stuff in Sunday School - you're out of luck!  They're too busy teaching about stuff like the life of Jesus to TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANT THINGS!!iI!!"

 

In other news, this guy thinks he's strong:

Edited October 3, 2023 by LoudmouthMormon

[The Nehor]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:26 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

Couldn't have put it better myself.  Although interesting misspelling when quoting scripture.  

Bring it on NAZIBOT!