Tim Ballard

[Calm]

23 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

If that email is legitimate, the most disturbing thing to me is that an email with this level of paranoia and narcissism is considered appropriate to send to all three of those people, as if its contents are normal to each of them.

I thought it was just sent to Tim Ballard?  I am really out of it today, so you will have to make it obvious if there is a third person included in that email.

[CA Steve]

21 minutes ago, Calm said:

I thought it was just sent to Tim Ballard?  I am really out of it today, so you will have to make it obvious if there is a third person included in that email.

You are not out of it and I agree it was not sent to them. My bad. Thanks for the correction. I am still disturbed that Beck has those kind of connections and influence and can have this type of conversations with those people.

Beck is a nut job.

Edited November 3, 2023 by CA Steve

[ttribe]

36 minutes ago, Calm said:

My guess is they met at some function and became friends.

If it is for real, it is concerning, but not surprising. If it isn’t, then my guess is they used the typical language of unrighteous in leadership, etc. to make it look controversial.

Because people make friends and/or networks when they meet at events and then they support each other, wisely or unwisely.

Serious question…

Would you be upset if Tim Ballard was what he said he was publicly plus a moderate who never wrote ridiculous books, OUR was successful in fighting human trafficking and the controversy really was a set up from a real child trafficking cartel (and not the qanon versions)?  Iow, if someone is legit and innocent, would you be okay with powerful people coming together to help them, even if done behind the scenes?

Yes, I would still be upset. This is, according to Beck, coordination necessary to assure Ballard ascends to take Mitt Romney's position in the U.S. Senate. Beck is decidedly partisan. If the Church is serious about its political neutrality then Church leadership should be nowhere near this conversation. Beck should be at arm's length. Clearly, that is not the case.

Edited November 3, 2023 by ttribe

[ttribe]

54 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

It looks like according to the updated lawsuit against Tim Ballard it states:

"The Davis County Investigation, according to OUR’s own internal documents, revealed that Elder M. Russell Ballard and other authorities from the Mormon Church, provided Mormon tithing records to OUR to help OUR target wealthy donors and wealthy Mormon Church Wards. Id. at p. 7, ¶ 58 (f)."

https://www.scribd.com/document/681863389/Amended-Complaint-in-Tim-Ballard-Case

This is disgusting that our church apostles would provide records on tithing from wealthy members and wealthy wards so OUR could target them for donations. SMAC97 can you please explain what these actions breach? Certainly a breach of confidence at a minimum.

If this is true, it is so much worse than the Beck email I posted.

[jkwilliams]

4 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Yes, I would still be upset. This is, according to Beck, coordination necessary to assure Ballard ascends to take Mitt Romney's position in the U.S. Senate. Beck is decidedly partisan. If the Church is serious about its political neutrality then Church leadership should be nowhere near this conversation. Beck should be at arm's length. Clearly, that is not the case.

Yeah, networks of powerful folks are common in large institutions. The mixture of the political here is a little troubling, and it beats me why Elder Andersen is hanging out with a loon like Beck. 

[Calm]

34 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Yes, I would still be upset. This is, according to Beck, coordination necessary to assure Ballard ascends to take Mitt Romney's position in the U.S. Senate. Beck is decidedly partisan. If the Church is serious about its political neutrality then Church leadership should be nowhere near this conversation. Beck should be at arm's length. Clearly, that is not the case.

I just meant defending someone who is innocent from allegations, not any additional concerns unique to this case.

I agree with the need for the Church to be nonpartisan (can be pro issues, not candidates I believe is the distinction).  Unfortunately I think this creates problems for apostles working even privately because there is no clear distinction between private and professional time given their work is pretty much 24/7 in most people’s eyes.  They don’t have a 9 to 5 job.  I am open though if the Church has an official, clear way of determining private action vs. for the Church action.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

34 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Yeah, networks of powerful folks are common in large institutions. The mixture of the political here is a little troubling, and it beats me why Elder Andersen is hanging out with a loon like Beck. 

Beck may have latched on to him and Elder Andersen is too kind to dump him…Beck seems to have the ….guts to do something like that.  Elder Andersen may compartmentalize the religious side of Beck from the political.  I went to a faculty dinner with Beck as the speaker at UVU and he gave a speech I would have little problems with if I had never heard of him, iirc.  It was pro education for most of it.  I could have been acquaintances with that side of Beck while no thanks to the political/history interpreting etc side of him.  Beck reminded me in that moment of one of my relatives.  Avoid politics and he is fun to be around.  He is active in a number of good works without political agendas and I can support him fully in those.

I couldn’t compartmentalize Beck these days though, not for a long time.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Calm

[ttribe]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

I just meant defending someone who is innocent from allegations.

I agree with the need for the Church to be impartial.  Unfortunately I think this creates problems for apostles working even privately because there is no clear distinction between private and professional time given their work is pretty much 24/7 in most people’s eyes.  They don’t have a 9 to 5 job.  I am open though if the Church has an official, clear way of determining private action vs. for the Church action.

For me, his guilt or innocence is entirely secondary to the cast of characters involved in this coordinated effort to resuscitate his reputation for political purposes. Beck's role in U.S. politics is well-known and the fact that he can ask such "favors" of a member of the Q12 is not just problematic, it crushes a great deal of trust one can have in the organization's statements on neutrality. It is near impossible to not be a cynic who sees their neutrality statements as nothing more than a CYA for tax compliance purposes, when in reality they are not above secret backroom deals to get people into positions they feel will be beneficial to them.

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, ttribe said:

For me, his guilt or innocence is entirely secondary to the cast of characters involved in this coordinated effort to resuscitate his reputation for political purposes. Beck's role in U.S. politics is well-known and the fact that he can ask such "favors" of a member of the Q12 is not just problematic, it crushes a great deal of trust one can have in the organization's statements on neutrality. It is near impossible to not be a cynic who sees their neutrality statements as nothing more than a CYA for tax compliance purposes, when in reality they are not above secret backroom deals to get people into positions they feel will be beneficial to them.

Has the email been vetted?

[Calm]

Honestly, given how Beck interprets current and past events, I don’t trust that he represents Elder Andersen correctly.  I can see Elder Andersen being nice, saying something vaguely reassuring and expressing concern as he would for anyone having issues and Beck turning it into an intimate friendship because that is what he needs.

I am not saying it can’t be accurate, I just don’t trust Beck’s accuracy.

Specking of accuracy, anyone know where I can find the reference referred to about the tithing record issue.  I assume it is exhibit N or O, but neither are at the end of the amended complaint as far as I could see (I jumped to the back as well as did a search on “exhibit”).

Edited November 4, 2023 by Calm

[Tacenda]

47 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Yes, I would still be upset. This is, according to Beck, coordination necessary to assure Ballard ascends to take Mitt Romney's position in the U.S. Senate. Beck is decidedly partisan. If the Church is serious about its political neutrality then Church leadership should be nowhere near this conversation. Beck should be at arm's length. Clearly, that is not the case.

It's becoming more clear why the church denounced Tim Ballard the way they did. I feel for them in a way, the leaders aren't that young, and they were deceived no doubt. 

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

Honestly, given how Beck interprets current and past events, I don’t trust that he represents Elder Andersen correctly.  I can see Elder Andersen being nice, saying something vaguely reassuring and expressing concern as he would for anyone having issues and Beck turning it into an intimate friendship because that is what he needs.

Online some are saying that even if the email is real Beck is known to misrepresent his relationships with others and so the contents of the email are not above question.  I know that I really don't like Glen Beck but nothing specific about him other than that so I don't know if what they are saying online is true or not.

[ttribe]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Has the email been vetted?

It's simply an exhibit attached to the Amended Complaint. It's provenance will be challenged and addressed in the course of the case. The fact that it comes on the heels of the disclosure of all of the investigation documents leads me to suspect it came from that trove of documents and was probably obtained via subpoena.

[Calm]

52 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

You are not out of it

If only that were true, lol.

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, ttribe said:

It's simply an exhibit attached to the Amended Complaint. It's provenance will be challenged and addressed in the course of the case. The fact that it comes on the heels of the disclosure of all of the investigation documents leads me to suspect it came from that trove of documents and was probably obtained via subpoena.

Except it is more recent than the investigation, isn’t it?  The Church statement was issued after the trove was requested and received by Vice(?) and others.

Is this another trove?

It is dated Sep 16.  What investigation would have this included and would have released records on request?  
 

There is nothing attached to the email to say where it is from what I see (someone needs to double-check any claim I make today).

Edited November 4, 2023 by Calm

[ttribe]

Just now, Calm said:

Except it is more recent than the investigation, isn’t it?  The Church statement was issued after the trove was requested and received by Vice(?) and others.

Is this another trove?

Ahhh, you are correct. I wasn't thinking about the dates. I haven't read the Amended Complaint word-for-word, so I'd need to review where it might have come from.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, ttribe said:

Ahhh, you are correct. I wasn't thinking about the dates. I haven't read the Amended Complaint word-for-word, so I'd need to review where it might have come from.

It is page 16 and all I see attached to it from the previous page is this:

Quote

Beck, along with Attorney General Reyes, (who should have been looking at arresting and prosecuting Tim Ballard after the sexual assaults and fund raising being thrown upon the citizens of the state of Utah by Tim Ballard), became a fixer for Tim Ballard when the extent of his sexual depravity became known to the Mormon Church.

There is no table of contents or listing of what is included, so I can’t find Exhibit N or O either.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Calm

[Tacenda]

https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/new-allegations-against-tim-ballard-claim-close-ties-to-attorney-general-lds-church-and-more/

Surprising this is already hitting the newswaves.

[ttribe]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is page 16 and all I see attached to it is this:

There is no table of contents or listing of what is included, so I can’t find Exhibit N or O either.

I'm trying to find a copy that is more search-friendly than the one I keep seeing linked to that scribd paywall site.

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, ttribe said:

I'm trying to find a copy that is more search-friendly than the one I keep seeing linked to that scribd paywall site.

Good luck.

@smac97, any chance you can see the official amended complaint?  It is rather important to see how they document the allegedly shared tithing records claims.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Calm

[ttribe]

23 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is page 16 and all I see attached to it is this:

There is no table of contents or listing of what is included, so I can’t find Exhibit N or O either.

 

15 minutes ago, ttribe said:

I'm trying to find a copy that is more search-friendly than the one I keep seeing linked to that scribd paywall site.

With that email being in the body of the Complaint, without footnotes or references, it looks like it's impossible to tell where and when they got it, at this point. I suspect that will come out before too long; it's way too incendiary to go unnoticed and unchallenged.

Edited November 4, 2023 by ttribe

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, ttribe said:

 

With that email being in the body of the Complaint, without footnotes or references, it looks like it's impossible to tell where and when they got it, at this point. I suspect that will come out before too long; it's way too incendiary to go unnoticed and unchallenged.

Indeed.

Same with the tithing records claim…my guess is there are at least a couple of reporters trying to contact after-hours Public Affairs or whatever they call it these days for a statement on this tidbit (as well as the Elder Andersen paragraph).

Edited November 4, 2023 by Calm

[ttribe]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

Good luck.

@smac97, any chance you can see the official amended complaint.  It is rather important to see how they document the allegedly shared tithing records claims.

Didn't find a better copy and the one on that site only has the exhibits up through "D." There's a lot of missing information at that site.

[ttribe]

Better one!

https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/51/05/6beb18d74504af701f9e5e578d00/0d5a9092199d4d4ba8d4bb7059ba307b.pdf

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Didn't find a better copy and the one on that site only has the exhibits up through "D." There's a lot of missing information at that site.

I am going to try and put it out of my mind for the night and let others do the work.  
 

Spoke too soon, lol

Edited November 4, 2023 by Calm