What gender is the Holy Ghost

[MustardSeed]

Is there official doctrine on this? 
Wouldn’t it be lovely to discover it’s a woman? The Comforter.  

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Is there official doctrine on this? 
Wouldn’t it be lovely to discover it’s a woman? The Comforter.  

I don't know that there has been anything specifically revealed about it.  He is called "He" in the scriptures, and the church follows that when they talk of Him.  That's all I can find on it.

[MustardSeed]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I don't know that there has been anything specifically revealed about it.  He is called "He" in the scriptures, and the church follows that when they talk of Him.  That's all I can find on it.

That’s all I see as well.  
I’m sure the culture at the time of the writing and compilation of scriptures would not have tolerated anything otherwise. 
I’m just thinking what a remarkable thing it would be to have representation of my gender in The Godhead. 

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

That’s all I see as well.  
I’m sure the culture at the time of the writing and compilation of scriptures would not have tolerated anything otherwise. 
I’m just thinking what a remarkable thing it would be to have representation of my gender in The Godhead. 

I found this, taught by Marion G. Romney, in a GC in 1974:

Quote

 

Jesus referred to the Holy Ghost as a male person. Speaking to his disciples, he said:

“… It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.” (John 16:7. Italics added.)

And further,

“… when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

“He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.” (John 16:13–14. Italics added.)

“That the [Holy Ghost] is capable of manifesting Himself in the form and figure of man,” wrote Dr. James E. Talmage, “is indicated by the wonderful interview between the Spirit and Nephi, in which He revealed Himself to the prophet, questioned him concerning his desires and belief, instructed him in the things of God, speaking face to face with the man. ‘I spake unto him,’ says Nephi, ‘as a man speaketh; for I beheld that he was in the form of a man; yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another.’” (Discourses on the Holy Ghost, comp. N. B. Lundwall, Bookcraft, Inc., 1959, p. 13.)

 

And apparently Heber C. Kimball taught this in 1857:

Quote

“The Holy Ghost is a man; he is one of the sons of our Father and our God; and he is that man that stood next to Jesus Christ, just as I stand by Brother Brigham.”

 

[MustardSeed]

Too bad. Thank you for taking the time, kind woman. 

[Pyreaux]

There's a wide array of ancient sources when brought together seem to make a really strong case she's a female... I'll be back after I retype my notes and return to dump pages and pages of material.

There is a ton of confusing fusions, I'll say "Asherah", I'll mean the Canaanite Consort of El Elyon, her daughter Anath is the Spirit of Wisdom is the Consort of the Lord YHWH, but she's who the Bible calls "Asherah", there are other foreign "holy" spirits/anaths in other nations, like the Anath, who is the wife of Ba'al, and not so holy. They make biblical appearances, Dame Folly, virgin/Whore of Babylon, etc.

[The Nehor]

Depends who you ask.

Marion G. Romney was partially wrong from a scholarly perspective. The other gospels don’t have gendered pronouns because the word they use for the Holy Ghost/Spirit is a gender neutral word. John uses another word sometimes that is a masculine word and uses masculine pronouns.

There is no biblical evidence to support the gender of the Holy Ghost. The Book of Mormon verse he quoted is even more confusing. Nephi calls the Holy Ghost “him” when talking to a being but knew that “it” was the Spirit of the Lord. I have also heard arguments that the being Nephi was speaking to was an angel and the Holy Ghost was using the angel as a mouthpiece.

I think the Syrian Orthodox Church and a few others still refer to the Holy Ghost as female.

My private suspicion is that the Holy Ghost is some kind of being we probably wouldn’t or couldn’t understand clearly and the identity is kept nebulous to avoid confusion. I see LDS positions on the Holy Ghost to be speculative at best.

The Holy Ghost?

[MustardSeed]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The Holy Ghost?

Has felt like that to me before 😅

[Rain]

Someone posted here a week or 2 ago a quote by President Kimball saying the Holy Ghost is a man. I don't remember what topic or poster that was.

Edit: I think it was Heber Kimball instead

Edited September 6, 2023 by Rain

[Smiley McGee]

The Holy Ghost is a man who needed to grow and develop, so God gave him a special calling…even though there were female spirits more qualified for the role.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Smiley McGee

[Leaf474]

12 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Is there official doctrine on this? 
Wouldn’t it be lovely to discover it’s a woman? The Comforter.  

Maybe it depends on what we mean by men and women? If we mean plumbing, physical body parts, then the Holy Ghost would be neither, not having physical parts. As I understand it.

 

But if we're talking about mindset or thought patterns -

It's well known that women tend to think about a lot of things at the same time while men tend to compartmentalize, think about one thing at a time.

 

The thoughts of the Holy Ghost sound closer to the way a woman thinks, imo.

1 Corinthians 2:10 came to my mind,

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

[LoudmouthMormon]

Huh.   I remember in primary or kiddo sunday school, I was quite clearly taught that the Holy Ghost did not have any gender.  Now I'm searching my brain to remember if it was the same teacher who also proclaimed that the Third Part who sided with satan came to earth and got bodies, and therefore one out of every 3 people you meet are actually demons.    It may be too many decades in the past to ever recall who taught it to me.  From somewhere in the early '80's until today, it hadn't dawned on me to think about the HG's gender.  

Edited September 6, 2023 by LoudmouthMormon

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, Leaf474 said:

Maybe it depends on what we mean by men and women? If we mean plumbing, physical body parts, then the Holy Ghost would be neither, not having physical parts. As I understand it.

 

But if we're talking about mindset or thought patterns -

It's well known that women tend to think about a lot of things at the same time while men tend to compartmentalize, think about one thing at a time.

 

The thoughts of the Holy Ghost sound closer to the way a woman thinks, imo.

1 Corinthians 2:10 came to my mind,

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Wishful thinking… Go to the official church website and do an “All Content” search using the terms ‘Holy Ghost’ and ‘he’ and you’ll get literally hundreds of hits from the church leaders, as well as hundreds of other hits from official church publications, that refer to the Holy Ghost as ‘he.’

For your consideration, just one of the hundreds of examples:

In a sermon delivered in 1857, President Heber C. Kimball stated: “The Holy Ghost is a man; he is one of the sons of our Father and our God; and he is that man that stood next to Jesus Christ, just as I stand by Brother Brigham.”

[bluebell]

22 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Huh.   I remember in primary or kiddo sunday school, I was quite clearly taught that the Holy Ghost did not have any gender.  Now I'm searching my brain to remember if it was the same teacher who also proclaimed that the Third Part who sided with satan came to earth and got bodies, and therefore one out of every 3 people you meet are actually demons.    It may be too many decades in the past to ever recall who taught it to me.  From somewhere in the early '80's until today, it hadn't dawned on me to think about the HG's gender.  

What the heck.  Sounds like your ward needed to vet primary teachers better! 

[filovirus]

I will have to look back at my notes. As others have stated, when referred to in the scriptures the Holy Spirit is generally gender neutral. When translated the translators use the masculine. Joseph Smith used "personage" a lot. I'm not sure if he ever referred to the Holy Ghost as masculine, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did. Modern-day prophets are very particular that the Holy Ghost is a man.

My own take: The Holy Ghost could be Heavenly Mother, but is very unlikely. The Holy Ghost could be Jehovah's consort, which I lean to if the Holy Ghost is feminine. But I go by modern prophets until I hear otherwise.

[Leaf474]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

Wishful thinking… Go to the official church website and do an “All Content” search using the terms ‘Holy Ghost’ and ‘he’ and you’ll get literally hundreds of hits from the church leaders, as well as hundreds of other hits from official church publications, that refer to the Holy Ghost as ‘he.’

For your consideration, just one of the hundreds of examples:

In a sermon delivered in 1857, President Heber C. Kimball stated: “The Holy Ghost is a man; he is one of the sons of our Father and our God; and he is that man that stood next to Jesus Christ, just as I stand by Brother Brigham.”

No doubt the Holy Ghost is referred to with male pronouns 🙂

 

Does the Holy Ghost think like a male?

[Popper]

Ruach Ha Kodesh is the Hebrew word for Holy Spirit which is feminine as is Shekinah which means present.

The Holy Spirit is often referred to as Him in the KJV but other versions are more ambiguous.

[bluebell]

35 minutes ago, Leaf474 said:

Does the Holy Ghost think like a male?

Like a fallen mortal male?  I would say no, even if He is male.  I'm not sure how to make the question relevant since I don't think what we know about the mortal male brain is transferable to male Deity.

[LoudmouthMormon]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

What the heck.  Sounds like your ward needed to vet primary teachers better! 

Keep in mind that I'm going off of 35+ year old memories, but if I'm recalling correctly, it was just this one guy, and I only remember him teaching us for a short time.   The next teacher had one of those "I'm stressed in ways I won't be explaining to a bunch of kids" looks that I've come to recognize in hindsight.  

I remember that guy, and also the dad of my first crush.  She was 6, I was 8.  We were going to get married when we grew up.  But then her dad packed everyone up and moved to Missouri to await the 2nd coming.  When I cried, he told me "don't worry, we're going now so you'll have a place to go when it happens".  

Anyway, I figure these personal stories have a place in this thread, because we're light on doctrinal canon answers and heavy on speculation.

[Leaf474]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Like a fallen mortal male?  I would say no, even if He is male.  I'm not sure how to make the question relevant since I don't think what we know about the mortal male brain is transferable to male Deity.

Was pondering this for a while, this came to my mind

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

    and your ways are not my ways,” says the Lord.

-Isaiah 55

 

If we set aside the physical and cultural expectations and consider just mental processes, it probably doesn't make much sense to think of the deity has male or female, since our ideas of those things might not apply.

 

Just speculating 🙂

[rpn]

After the last discussion of this a few week ago, I think it boils down to a couple of apostles (not prophets, and not officially) have said the Holy Ghost is male. 

There has been no announcement by the church officially of what the Holy Ghost's gender may be.

But there is use of male pronouns from church leaders (and I'd wager most members, including ones like me who think it is just as likely that the Holy Ghost is feminine).

There is nothing in our theology nor in scripture that says anything that summarily indicates either male or female. 

And the question has come up apparently over the centuries that this world has existed and talked about faith in ways that have been preserved.

[Calm]

39 minutes ago, rpn said:

There is nothing in our theology nor in scripture that says anything that summarily indicates either male or female. 

When members associated priesthood with only men, it is understandable why it was seen the Holy Ghost must be male.  Now there is a recognition that women can have the priesthood too, maybe the argument will change to if the Holy Ghost is an office or not…though if eternal beings live by the current rules that mortals live by, then something has gone wrong, lol.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

4 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Wishful thinking… Go to the official church website and do an “All Content” search using the terms ‘Holy Ghost’ and ‘he’ and you’ll get literally hundreds of hits from the church leaders, as well as hundreds of other hits from official church publications, that refer to the Holy Ghost as ‘he.’

For your consideration, just one of the hundreds of examples:

In a sermon delivered in 1857, President Heber C. Kimball stated: “The Holy Ghost is a man; he is one of the sons of our Father and our God; and he is that man that stood next to Jesus Christ, just as I stand by Brother Brigham.”

There are somethings in life that are completely predictable.  This thread would have felt unfinished without your post, teddyaware.   

[Pyreaux]

7 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Wishful thinking… Go to the official church website and do an “All Content” search using the terms ‘Holy Ghost’ and ‘he’ and you’ll get literally hundreds of hits from the church leaders, as well as hundreds of other hits from official church publications, that refer to the Holy Ghost as ‘he.’

For your consideration, just one of the hundreds of examples:

In a sermon delivered in 1857, President Heber C. Kimball stated: “The Holy Ghost is a man; he is one of the sons of our Father and our God; and he is that man that stood next to Jesus Christ, just as I stand by Brother Brigham.”

We just follow the custom and language of the KJV and conservative Christian thought. Kimball doesn't seem to be establishing a stance about its gender, he simply assumes its gender while establishing its an actual person and sprit child in the Godhead, as opposed to other ideas like it's simply a portion of God's very being in the Trinity, or that it's a force or a power and not a person.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Pyreaux

[manol]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

 if eternal beings live by the current rules that mortals live by, then something has gone wrong, lol.

Well said! 

I doubt the Celestial world is patterned after the way things are in the Telestial.