Church Files Lawsuit Against Cody, Wyoming (Zoning/Planning Bd)

[MiserereNobis]

13 hours ago, helix said:

As someone who lives near Catholic property which recently built an 80 foot tall cathedral with a 110 foot tall steeple

Our cathedral is bigger than your temple, nonny nonny boo boo 😛

[Kenngo1969]

20 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Our cathedral is bigger than your temple, nonny nonny boo boo 😛

And nobody mitched and boaned?  If you ask me, that's what the funny part is!*

*Actually, I'm being semi-serious.  For a lot of these people, when it comes right down to brass tacks and you tie them to an ant hill and smother their ears with jam and force them to admit what their bottom-line objection is, it isn't that there is a building there, and it isn't that there is a religious building there ... it's that there is a Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Kenngo1969

[Diamondhands69]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

… admit what their bottom-line objection is, it isn't that there is a building there, and it isn't that there is a religious building there ... it's that there is a Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there.

Yep and the recent pew study pretty much confirms that. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Diamondhands69

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

And nobody mitched and boaned?  If you ask me, that's what the funny part is!*

*Actually, I'm being semi-serious.  For a lot of these people, when it comes right down to brass tacks and you tie them to an ant hill and smother their ears with jam and force them to admit what their bottom-line objection is, it isn't that there is a building there, and it isn't that there is a religious building there ... it's that there is a Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there.

There are some religions that people are comfortable persecuting in the open and in a lot of places ours is one of them.  

[Tacenda]

The latest news: https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/11/27/lds-church-doesnt-want-4-000-public-records-admitted-into-temple-lawsuit/

[Tacenda]

I guess like the Cody, Wyoming temple controversy isn't over, same with the Heber, Utah one. 

https://www.kpcw.org/wasatch-county/2023-11-30/residents-sue-wasatch-county-over-heber-valley-temple-approval

[california boy]

On 10/28/2023 at 8:26 AM, bluebell said:

There are some religions that people are comfortable persecuting in the open and in a lot of places ours is one of them.  

I am curious and maybe you could expand a little on this statement.  If you do feel that people feel comfortable persecuting the Church, why do you think they are comfortable doing that to the Church and not others?  Are they protesting just because it is the Church and they don't really have any legitimate reason to oppose the building of the temple in their area?  Do you think they would be just as upset if say Walmart was building that big of structure in their neighborhood?

Just wondering where Church members get this idea that they are unjustly being persecuted.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

I am curious and maybe you could expand a little on this statement.  If you do feel that people feel comfortable persecuting the Church, why do you think they are comfortable doing that to the Church and not others?  

Probably a few different reasons.  Like, they know there won't be any repercussions for doing so because of where they live or the company they keep, and because they disagree with/don't understand our beliefs. 

I can't imagine the answer would be any different for persecuting because of religion than it is for why people feel comfortable persecuting because of race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation.

Quote

Are they protesting just because it is the Church and they don't really have any legitimate reason to oppose the building of the temple in their area?  Do you think they would be just as upset if say Walmart was building that big of structure in their neighborhood?

Walmart is probably less than a mile from this neighborhood, as the crow flies.  

One guy put up a picture of the Idaho Falls temple at night as his reason for not wanting the temple built.  When I let him know that the IF temple is something like 92,000 square feet while the Cody temple is going to be 9,000 square feet, and so the lighting wouldn't be at all the same, he moved on to a new complaint about how the church is stealing money from Australia and ignored my post.  I think he might have gotten that idea from a lady who posted about how the church spends too much money on temples and we aren't helping in Maui because we are a scam (this was a couple of months ago)?  I posted a link to an article about everything the church had done so far in Maui and at least I got a thumbs up from her on that.

So no, I don't think people have a valid reason to keep a religious building out of that area of Cody.  I think there are likely some valid reasons to not want it there, but not any valid reasons to keep it out.

Quote

Just wondering where Church members get this idea that they are unjustly being persecuted.

Using the normal definition of the term persecution (to subject someone to hostility because of their ethnicity, religion, political ideology, race, or sexual identity), is there any "just" persecution?

But I think it often stems from living outside of Utah/Idaho in an area where a temple is being built, or living in an area that is highly Baptist/Evangelical in general.  That's been my experience anyway of when the hostility tends to come out of the woodwork.

[bluebell]

For reference, this is a map of the area in question. You can see where the Walmart is (on a major highway/Main Street) compared to the yellow dot where the temple will be.

The land in between the two that looks empty are other businesses (on the south side of the highway), a small ridge and fields. The temple site is on the ridge. 

[california boy]

Not sure if I am reading the map you sent, but it looks like the Walmart is built in a commercial area.  Isn't the temple trying to be built in a residential area?  Isn't that the real problem?

Edited December 3, 2023 by california boy

[bluebell]

42 minutes ago, california boy said:

Not sure if I am reading the map you sent, but it looks like the Walmart is built in a commercial area.  Isn't the temple trying to be built in a residential area?  Isn't that the real problem?

Churches are typically built in residential area so that’s not much of an issue. The temple will be a few blocks from a couple other large churches and across the street from a golf course. About a mile  to the east of the temple site is the other commercial area of Cody.

Here’s a map of the other side. The green roads are highways/main streets through the town. That’s where the main commercial area are. You can see from the scale that there’s an Albertsons less than a mile to the east. That whole road is solid businesses on both sides.

It’s in a residential area but it’s next to the commercial areas.  That’s probably one reason that site was picked  

Edited December 3, 2023 by bluebell

[Tacenda]

21 hours ago, bluebell said:

Churches are typically built in residential area so that’s not much of an issue. The temple will be a few blocks from a couple other large churches and across the street from a golf course. About a mile  to the east of the temple site is the other commercial area of Cody.

Here’s a map of the other side. The green roads are highways/main streets through the town. That’s where the main commercial area are. You can see from the scale that there’s an Albertsons less than a mile to the east. That whole road is solid businesses on both sides.

It’s in a residential area but it’s next to the commercial areas.  That’s probably one reason that site was picked  

The Layton temple is very large, I drive to the Smith's by it all the time. Not complaining, just thought about it, and how when driving from far away, or to the west farther I see it 

[longview]

21 hours ago, bluebell said:

It’s in a residential area but it’s next to the commercial areas.  That’s probably one reason that site was picked  

I took a look at Google Maps. It appears that the temple site can be accessed by Skyline Drive and then Olive Glenn Drive. Is that correct?

Cody has over 10K population heavily latticed with streets. The temple site is on the south west corner on the edge of the "boonies". Looks to me that the city really should not have a problem with the temple. It appears to have plenty of room for residentials to be built around it?

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

The Layton temple is very large, I drive to the Smith's by it all the time. Not complaining, just thought about it, and how when driving from far away, or to the west farther I see it 

It’s a big one, square footage wise. 

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, longview said:

I took a look at Google Maps. It appears that the temple site can be accessed by Skyline Drive and then Olive Glenn Drive. Is that correct?

Cody has over 10K population heavily latticed with streets. The temple site is on the south west corner on the edge of the "boonies". Looks to me that the city really should not have a problem with the temple. It appears to have plenty of room for residentials to be built around it?

It’s hard to see on the screenshots I took, but if you Google map Cody Wyoming and zoom into that area, Stampede Ave and S. Fork (also known as 11th) are the two main roads that feed into skyline Drive. Both are heavily trafficked, even though you probably wouldn’t be able to tell just looking at the map. That section of stampede Avenue that goes in to skyline has a lot of commercial businesses along it plus a couple other churches and a few houses as well.

The temple is definitely on the outskirts of the town. But because it is on a small ridge, you will be able to see it from the main highway that runs through town that goes by Walmart. So it’s both kind of remote and also not at the same time, if that makes sense.

[california boy]

On 12/2/2023 at 6:51 PM, bluebell said:

Churches are typically built in residential area so that’s not much of an issue. The temple will be a few blocks from a couple other large churches and across the street from a golf course. About a mile  to the east of the temple site is the other commercial area of Cody.

Here’s a map of the other side. The green roads are highways/main streets through the town. That’s where the main commercial area are. You can see from the scale that there’s an Albertsons less than a mile to the east. That whole road is solid businesses on both sides.

It’s in a residential area but it’s next to the commercial areas.  That’s probably one reason that site was picked  

Thanks for the info.  I still don't think people are opposing the building of the temple because it is Mormon.  I think it is probably more nimby kinda thing.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

Thanks for the info.  I still don't think people are opposing the building of the temple because it is Mormon.  I think it is probably more nimby kinda thing.

Likely some of both imo, the Mormon bias pushes the nimby response up a couple of notches.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Calm

[bluebell]

10 hours ago, california boy said:

Thanks for the info.  I still don't think people are opposing the building of the temple because it is Mormon.  I think it is probably more nimby kinda thing.

The people who live in that area would probably oppose any similar building, unless they were connected to the organization somehow. Kind of like how people will build a home in a prime location and then work hard to make sure that nobody else is allowed to do the same.

For the opposition that lives nowhere near the proposed building, especially the opposition that doesn’t even live in Cody, I think it’s harder to argue that it has nothing to do with the religion that is building it.

For reference, Billings Montana is about 80 miles north of Cody, Wyoming, and when the Billings Montana Temple was announced people from Cody and the surrounding towns drove up to oppose it.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

The people who live in that area would probably oppose any similar building, unless they were connected to the organization somehow. Kind of like how people will build a home in a prime location and then work hard to make sure that nobody else is allowed to do the same.

For the opposition that lives nowhere near the proposed building, especially the opposition that doesn’t even live in Cody, I think it’s harder to argue that it has nothing to do with the religion that is building it.

For reference, Billings Montana is about 80 miles north of Cody, Wyoming, and when the Billings Montana Temple was announced people from Cody and the surrounding towns drove up to oppose it.

I remember a long time ago, Kmart bought the land to put a store right off Shepard Lane and the parking lot is part of Burt Brother's Tires and Auto in Farmington, it's now something else, the old Kmart building. I remember everyone was totally against the idea for the most part, near their neighborhoods. You may not even be aware there was one there bluebell!

There was the Smith's on the east side and a Burger King. I was on the fence about it. But boy was I happy it was built later! So convenient to go to for a quick b-day gift etc. I miss that store so much now, it even had a little cafe. 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Tacenda

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I remember a long time ago, Kmart bought the land to put a store right off Shepard Lane and the parking lot is part of Burt Brother's Tires and Auto in Farmington, it's now something else, the old Kmart building. I remember everyone was totally against the idea for the most part, near their neighborhoods. You may not even be aware there was one there bluebell!

There was the Smith's on the east side and a Burger King. I was on the fence about it. But boy was I happy it was built later! So convenient to go to for a quick b-day gift etc. I miss that store so much now, it even had a little cafe. 

 

You're right, I didn't know about that!  I remember Kmart as a kid.  I loved those places.  

My heart really does go out to people who lose something when a business or new subdivision goes up near their homes.  I think about those people who lived along 89 before they redid it and put up sound barriers, took down full grown trees, and stuff like that.  Some of those places probably lost property value because of the way the new barriers impacted their view into the valley.  I live across the street from a golf course.  If that ever sold and turned into houses I would be really upset, mostly because my view of the mountains would suffer a lot. 

But being upset about something doesn't mean that it's wrong for it to happen.  Something can really suck but still be perfectly valid.

[Tacenda]

Here's the latest, hoping @smac97will help me understand what they're saying.

https://www.kpcw.org/wasatch-county/2024-01-23/lds-church-seeks-to-join-temple-lawsuit-as-defendant?fbclid=IwAR1j0khnaex6LyjZFDfnw9JC-9Dy4lxn6Q4rHPwOdXgg8mNj8JK5akXKvO8

 

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Here's the latest, hoping @smac97will help me understand what they're saying.

https://www.kpcw.org/wasatch-county/2024-01-23/lds-church-seeks-to-join-temple-lawsuit-as-defendant?fbclid=IwAR1j0khnaex6LyjZFDfnw9JC-9Dy4lxn6Q4rHPwOdXgg8mNj8JK5akXKvO8

The lawsuit is a civil one, filed by private parties as Plaintiffs against Wasatch County (the governmental entity which approved the location/construction of the Heber Valley Temple) as the defendant.  Since the lawsuit is about the temple, the Church wants to be able to argue against the plaintiff's lawsuit.  However, it is presently only a bystander, and so will not have any say in the lawsuit until and unless the court lets it be added as a defendant in the case.  The Church has filed a motion asking for permission to be added as a party, and the motion will almost certainly be granted.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Tacenda]

9 hours ago, smac97 said:

The lawsuit is a civil one, filed by private parties as Plaintiffs against Wasatch County (the governmental entity which approved the location/construction of the Heber Valley Temple) as the defendant.  Since the lawsuit is about the temple, the Church wants to be able to argue against the plaintiff's lawsuit.  However, it is presently only a bystander, and so will not have any say in the lawsuit until and unless the court lets it be added as a defendant in the case.  The Church has filed a motion asking for permission to be added as a party, and the motion will almost certainly be granted.

Thanks,

-Smac

Thanks a bunch!!

[Tacenda]

Another temple controversy near Las Vegas, Nevada. This one is opening the playbook on how the church can suddenly change a code, to be to their benefit. Money does talk apparently in this case. This isn't a good look at all. I don't like it. According to a recent youtube I watched, the church's lawyers donated money to nearly all of the council members before the zoning change. https://www.fox5vegas.com/2024/03/28/neighbors-oppose-lone-mountain-lds-temple-proposal-church-leader-says-they-will-address-concerns/

Why but why? 

[JAHS]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Another temple controversy near Las Vegas, Nevada. This one is opening the playbook on how the church can suddenly change a code, to be to their benefit. Money does talk apparently in this case. This isn't a good look at all. I don't like it. According to a recent youtube I watched, the church's lawyers donated money to nearly all of the council members before the zoning change. https://www.fox5vegas.com/2024/03/28/neighbors-oppose-lone-mountain-lds-temple-proposal-church-leader-says-they-will-address-concerns/

Why but why? 

CFR. What Youtube video?