Church Files Lawsuit Against Cody, Wyoming (Zoning/Planning Bd)

[Tacenda]

25 minutes ago, JAHS said:

CFR. What Youtube video?

I went back and listened again, and Consig (?) or RFM, spoke about it on the unmentionable podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM2RT3BJxtM&t=5396s. But have seen other posters mention the podcast with no comment from the mods. Anyway, I went back and listened again and he said it more in an opinion, which I apparently didn't catch listening the first time. But it starts at 39:30 if you care to listen, which I doubt you will. So I will apologize for my lack of listening skills. Was hoping @smac97 could comment or if he had a way to find out and would appreciate his opinion on the matter.  

It still doesn't sit well, how the church can use their power, so to speak, and change zoning laws like this. I feel for the neighborhood, like other neighborhoods with prior zoning laws, that got changed for the temple to be built. And wish and hope for the future that the church could find more agreeable arrangements for their temples going forward. 

 

Edited April 2, 2024 by Tacenda

[JAHS]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I went back and listened again, and Consig (?) or RFM, spoke about it on the unmentionable podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM2RT3BJxtM&t=5396s. But have seen other posters mention the podcast with no comment from the mods. Anyway, I went back and listened again and he said it more in an opinion, which I apparently didn't catch listening the first time. But it starts at 39:30 if you care to listen, which I doubt you will. So I will apologize for my lack of listening skills. Was hoping Smac could comment or if he had a way to find out and would appreciate his opinion on the matter.  

It still doesn't sit well, how the church can use their power, so to speak, and change zoning laws like this. I feel for the neighborhood, like other neighborhoods with prior zoning laws, that got changed for the temple to be built. And wish and hope for the future that the church could find more agreeable arrangements for their temples going forward. 

 

I saw a short video clip from Mormonish and it sounded like it was just a few law firms simply making campaign contributions to a few council people running for office which is something that happens all the time. Not the church using the power of money, just law firms making campaign donations.

[Amulek]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

This one is opening the playbook on how the church can suddenly change a code, to be to their benefit. Money does talk apparently in this case. [...] . https://www.fox5vegas.com/2024/03/28/neighbors-oppose-lone-mountain-lds-temple-proposal-church-leader-says-they-will-address-concerns/

I'm not seeing any indication that the church has done anything out of the ordinary here. The referenced article claims "the City Council of Las Vegas voted to amend longstanding code in the district, paving the way for houses of worship to apply for a Special Use Permit to build in the area." But I'm not seeing any such amendment in the documentation they use to support that claim: https://lasvegas.primegov.com/Portal/Meeting?meetingTemplateId=18318.

As near as I can tell, the church is simply going about the routine process of applying for a Special Use Permit here - same as what anyone else would do if they were wanting to build a nightclub, cell tower, or any number of other (lawful) things that aren't expressly allowed for by default according to the code.

 

[Tacenda]

18 minutes ago, Amulek said:

I'm not seeing any indication that the church has done anything out of the ordinary here. The referenced article claims "the City Council of Las Vegas voted to amend longstanding code in the district, paving the way for houses of worship to apply for a Special Use Permit to build in the area." But I'm not seeing any such amendment in the documentation they use to support that claim: https://lasvegas.primegov.com/Portal/Meeting?meetingTemplateId=18318.

As near as I can tell, the church is simply going about the routine process of applying for a Special Use Permit here - same as what anyone else would do if they were wanting to build a nightclub, cell tower, or any number of other (lawful) things that aren't expressly allowed for by default according to the code.

 

Is that fair to this neighborhood. Did the church ask? Were they notified of this meeting? They weren't able to even complain?

Edited April 2, 2024 by Tacenda

[ZealouslyStriving]

I've been out the the Lone Mountain site, it is far from rural, and apparently the Clark County SD owns the lot next to it. Will they oppose when the county decides to build a High School?

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

According to a recent youtube I watched, the church's lawyers donated money to nearly all of the council members before the zoning change

I would like to see the evidence for bribery.

[Calm]

40 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I've been out the the Lone Mountain site, it is far from rural, and apparently the Clark County SD owns the lot next to it. Will they oppose when the county decides to build a High School?

Do we have an address for the site so we can use Google street view (or whatever it is called these days) to look at it?

[Stormin' Mormon]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Do we have an address for the site so we can use Google street view (or whatever it is called these days) to look at it?

Couldn't find an address, but churchofjesuschristtemples.org describes the location, from which I gathered its coordinates to be:  36.23560740634346, -115.30435401776339.  Enter that into Google Maps, and you should be able to streetview the site.  

[Stormin' Mormon]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Is that fair to this neighborhood. Did the church ask? Were they notified of this meeting? They weren't able to even complain?

Submitting an application for a special use permit is the way an organization asks permission to do something like this.  I'm not an expert on how these things work in every state or municipality in the country, but generally, these types of meetings are legally required to include public notice (usually to all landowners within a given radius of the site in question), as well as a public hearing (an opportunity for residents to express their opinions in an open, public forum).  

Edited April 2, 2024 by Stormin' Mormon

[ZealouslyStriving]

13 minutes ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

Couldn't find an address, but churchofjesuschristtemples.org describes the location, from which I gathered its coordinates to be:  36.23560740634346, -115.30435401776339.  Enter that into Google Maps, and you should be able to streetview the site.  

Thank you. I was trying.

[JAHS]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/36°14'08.2"N+115°18'15.7"W/@36.2356074,-115.3069289,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d36.2356074!4d-115.304354?entry=ttu

Edited April 2, 2024 by JAHS

[Calm]

Looks mostly residential, don’t know the size of the lots, but looks like they are packed in, but not tightly. There is a massive complex of softball fields about a block or two away if I am reading it right. 

Elementary school not that far away. Makes sense to put in a middle school and a high school as it continues to grow. 

While not around the clock traffic, that park has to bring in a lot of traffic when active. Depending on how late the games go, that can be a lighting issue. 

Height and duration of use are likely going to be significantly different. 
 

I believe my niece lives in Lone Park or did. I should check with her what she hears. 

Edited April 2, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

[Calm]

[Calm]

As far as preserving “Rural Las Vegas”, it looks to me they lost that battle awhile back.  It looks like it has been zoned for wall to wall housing.  That is pure suburbia in appearance to me even if the foothills are next to them.   That is not to say their protests have no merit….just the ones calling it “rural” imo.
 

Edited April 2, 2024 by Calm

[Amulek]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Is that fair to this neighborhood. Did the church ask? Were they notified of this meeting? They weren't able to even complain?

They are still in the early phases of the formal planning process. According to the article you linked originally:

On Tuesday, April 9, 2024, the Planning Commission will hear the presentation of the proposed LDS temple, inside City Hall at 6 pm where the general plan amendment and zone changes will be presented to the Planning Commission.

During this time, the Planning Commissioners will learn the details of the proposed LDS temple and will conclude with a recommendation that will be sent to City Council.

On May 14, 2024 the proposed LDS temple will present their Site Development Review to the Planning Commission where discussion about the size, height, parking and aesthetics of the proposed LDS temple will take place.

Following the Planning Commission meeting the proposed LDS temple will come to City Council for another full presentation. The City Council would then vote on the project.

So, yes, the church asked (technically, they are still in the process of asking); the public was notified, just as they would be for any other proposed change; and those in the community who want to make their voices heard will have the opportunity to formally complain to those who have been elected to make these sorts of decisions in their community. I'm not sure how you go about determining fairness, but that all seems pretty fair to me.

 

[JAHS]

An extra thousand cars per day? Really?

 

[Doctor Steuss]

I don't understand what the push is for with this one?  The LV Temple is nowhere near operating at capacity, and still at reduced hours compared to available operational hours a decade ago.  Maybe they are planning on bringing back the (in)famous cinnamon buns to the LV Temple...

Seems like a lot of money and effort to save a handful of people a 45 minute drive.

[JAHS]

15 minutes ago, Doctor Steuss said:

I don't understand what the push is for with this one?  The LV Temple is nowhere near operating at capacity, and still at reduced hours compared to available operational hours a decade ago.  Maybe they are planning on bringing back the (in)famous cinnamon buns to the LV Temple...

Seems like a lot of money and effort to save a handful of people a 45 minute drive.

When you consider how far other members in the world have travel to get to a temple, I am inclined to agree. 

[bluebell]

The group in Cody Wyoming that was suing the city to try to stop the temple from being built has (once again) lost.

"On August 26, 2024, Preserve Our Cody Neighborhoods (POCN) and its attorneys received the District Court’s ruling in favor of the LDS Church on the various petitions for review. POCN is in the process of carefully reviewing the Court’s decision to determine our next steps in this process. While POCN fully respects the Court’s authority, POCN is concerned that the Court’s analysis is not correct and may merit further review by the Wyoming Supreme Court. POCN will consider filing a timely appeal."

Meanwhile, the Casper Wyoming temple (3 hours or so away from Cody) was announced around the same time, has already been completed, and will be having it's open house in a couple of weeks.  And there have been zero complaints or issues from anyone in that area.

I'm from the Cody area and I find that incredibly embarrassing for the town.

[gtaggart]

Do you have a link? Thanks.

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, gtaggart said:

Do you have a link? Thanks.

The local newspapers only publish twice a week and so I haven’t seen any articles about it.

My dad, who still lives in the area, texted me about the church’s win after he heard it from the stake President. I searched this morning and the only thing that I’ve been able to find online so far has been the little blurb that I’ve already posted. But it was on a Reddit thread and I didn’t save the reference. I am assuming that there will be some thing in one of the local papers tomorrow. 

[bluebell]

On 8/28/2024 at 10:55 AM, gtaggart said:

Do you have a link? Thanks.

https://www.codyenterprise.com/news/local/article_8f381b6a-6566-11ef-85f8-bbf017470953.html

It says in part:

Quote

 

The judge’s ruling was centered on his finding that the P&Z board’s approval of the site plan, conditional use permit and findings of fact was proper and final on June 15, 2023. Of the five board members present, the vote was 3 for, 1 against and 1 abstain, which he said qualified as accepted action under city ordinance.
 

POCN countered that state law requires a majority of the board for approval, which would mean at least four out of seven members. Further, it said state law supersedes city ordinance.
 

Perry wrote that any challenge must be submitted within 30 days of the disputed decision, which he said occurred June 15. POCN didn’t file until August 21, while the P&Z board continued either to reconsider or to modify its decisions about the temple until August 8.
 

Further, the judge said the P&Z board had no authority to reconsider or modify its decisions at its subsequent meetings on June 27, July 25 and August 8.

“The City of Cody’s grant of a conditional use permit to the Church is affirmed …,” Perry wrote in his conclusion. “Accordingly, the relief prayed for by the church is granted and the relief prayed for by POCN is denied.”

 

It sounds like they lost on a technicality so I bet they appeal.

Edited August 29, 2024 by bluebell

[Kenngo1969]

On 4/2/2024 at 1:12 PM, Stormin' Mormon said:

Submitting an application for a special use permit is the way an organization asks permission to do something like this.  I'm not an expert on how these things work in every state or municipality in the country, but generally, these types of meetings are legally required to include public notice (usually to all landowners within a given radius of the site in question), as well as a public hearing (an opportunity for residents to express their opinions in an open, public forum).  

And then most people don't care enough to note when a meeting soliciting public input will be held, or they don't care enough to show up at the meeting and comment when it is held, but they want veto power over the decision after it is made.

[california boy]

I hope the Church wins their lawsuit and will have the grand steeple they seem to despertly want.  And I hope that the towns people have positive feelings every time they look at the temple.

Unfortunately, I think only one of those hope will happen.  Which one is still to be determined.