Church Files Lawsuit Against Cody, Wyoming (Zoning/Planning Bd)

[Smiley McGee]

39 minutes ago, Calm said:

Huh?  I am at a complete loss in trying to understand your comment given what European Jews faced was being dragged off to camps and immense suffering, such as separation from loved ones, starvation, abuse from authority, and even death.

You’re unaware of the church’s overfed persecution complex? It’s practically a fetish.

[Tacenda]

40 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said:

You’re unaware of the church’s overfed persecution complex? It’s practically a fetish.

I swear in a podcast I listened to they say someone said the exact thing in a town meeting or interview. Maybe it was one of the church's representatives. Want to help a girl out? Can't remember! 

ETA: Thinking you may have heard about it, but if not, it's probably a coincidence. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

Something they say in the podcast is that Cody is a western town and tourists go for that a lot. But the temple doesn't appear to look like it is in that environment. And the church supposedly studied for a year or so the best architecture they would use. But this temple looks like so many in suburban areas and will stick out like a sore thumb and will hurt the town rather than help. If I was a staunch member I'd be upset if that was being built in my neighborhood. The podcast mentions that they had asked the residents their feelings, and they said it had nothing to do with the church but their town and how it would hurt the area. I wonder if the church owns land around there and wants to put in some developments, such as real estate.

ETA: The person that donated the land was a grandfather that once was a temple president at the Billings MT temple. And he donated the land to the church and the church took the land and sold it and then a few years later they went back to this family and asked them to donate more for the new temple. This is hearsay since it's secondhand from the podcast. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Tacenda

[bluebell]

39 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think he's quoting what a city councilman (?) said either in person or an interview. I listened to a podcast recently and they discussed how insane that was for the guy to say.

Here's a c/p of one of the posts on the Cody Neighborhood FB page that is sad to think about. If the temple lights will do what it portrays:

 

 

Preserve Our Cody Neighborhoods

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 

  · 

In 2016, 80% of the world was estimated to live under skyglow, a term used to describe the brightening of the night sky in areas where people live. The same year, it was reported that an estimated one-third of humanity could no longer view the Milky Way Galaxy. This excess of light at night is a form of pollution that can harm wildlife and plants. Studies have shown artificial light also deters pollinators from their nightly routine, resulting in a reduction of plant pollination.

You can reduce skyglow at home by:

- Keep light indoors: close blinds or curtains drawn at night to keep the light inside.

- Color matters: use warmer colored light bulbs and minimize blue-violet light.

- Use outdoor light where and when you need it: control your lighting through motion detectors, timers or dimmers.

- Keep light where you want it: properly shield all outdoor lights to eliminate light pollution drifting into the sky.

- Plant a moon garden for nighttime pollinators.

Visit our comments and click on each picture to learn more.

He's not talking about the Cody temple but about the Newport California temple and how some reacted to that.  I don't think he's quoting anyone.

Where is that first picture supposed to be taken?  It's not a picture of the proposed temple site.  The site is within the city limits, right next to a large neighborhood and overlooking the main city strip (with walmart a couple of miles away).

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, bluebell said:

He's not talking about the Cody temple but about the Newport California temple and how some reacted to that.  I don't think he's quoting anyone.

Where is that first picture supposed to be taken?  It's not a picture of the proposed temple site.  The site is within the city limits, right next to a large neighborhood and overlooking the main city strip (with walmart a couple of miles away).

I did mention maybe it was a coincidence, the quote by someone. 

Also,to answer your last question, it's a random photo from somewhere else from an article someone on the FB group in Cody posted. 

[Tacenda]

I think the church should have planned a temple like the Vernal temple.

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Something they say in the podcast is that Cody is a western town and tourists go for that a lot. But the temple doesn't appear to look like it is in that environment. And the church supposedly studied for a year or so the best architecture they would use. But this temple looks like so many in suburban areas and will stick out like a sore thumb and will hurt the town rather than help. If I was a staunch member I'd be upset if that was being built in my neighborhood. The podcast mentions that they had asked the residents their feelings, and they said it had nothing to do with the church but their town and how it would hurt the area. I wonder if the church owns land around there and wants to put in some developments, such as real estate.

ETA: The person that donated the land was a grandfather that once was a temple president at the Billings MT temple. And he donated the land to the church and the church took the land and sold it and then a few years later they went back to this family and asked them to donate more for the new temple. This is hearsay since it's secondhand from the podcast. 

Tourists go to Cody because it's 50 miles from Yellowstone and the closest town to the East Entrance.  They don't care what the churches look like.  I can't believe anyone said that tourists would stop going to Cody because of the design of a church with a straight face. 

But there will be many in the surrounding area who will travel to Cody just to go to the temple that wouldn't have traveled there otherwise.

PS. How western is their Episcopal Church?  Does anyone care that it's not western?  Is it hurting the town that it's not western?  Of course not.  

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think the church should have planned a temple like the Vernal temple.

There is nothing else in that whole town that is made out of red brick like that though.  Such a building would stick out like a sore thumb.  It's not a pioneer town, like so many in Utah are.  It's a western town.  Most buildings are just wooden structures, or wood and rock.  A pioneer era building would not fit in there at all.

[bluebell]

33 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Something they say in the podcast is that Cody is a western town and tourists go for that a lot. But the temple doesn't appear to look like it is in that environment. And the church supposedly studied for a year or so the best architecture they would use. But this temple looks like so many in suburban areas and will stick out like a sore thumb and will hurt the town rather than help. If I was a staunch member I'd be upset if that was being built in my neighborhood. The podcast mentions that they had asked the residents their feelings, and they said it had nothing to do with the church but their town and how it would hurt the area. I wonder if the church owns land around there and wants to put in some developments, such as real estate.

ETA: The person that donated the land was a grandfather that once was a temple president at the Billings MT temple. And he donated the land to the church and the church took the land and sold it and then a few years later they went back to this family and asked them to donate more for the new temple. This is hearsay since it's secondhand from the podcast. 

This is probably the biggest church in Cody (it probably takes up an acre or more).  It's the cody Bible church.  What exactly is western about it?  Is anyone concerned it's driving away tourists?  Not that I've heard.

 

[bluebell]

35 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

ETA: The person that donated the land was a grandfather that once was a temple president at the Billings MT temple. And he donated the land to the church and the church took the land and sold it and then a few years later they went back to this family and asked them to donate more for the new temple. This is hearsay since it's secondhand from the podcast. 

If the church sold the land and that family doesn't own it anymore, how can they donate it to the church for the temple?  That's confusing.  

[bluebell]

@Tacenda, I hope you know that I'm not picking on you personally, just using your posts to talk about some of the issues that you've brought up. 

There's plenty of room for reasonable people to disagree about the temple issue.  But some people's arguments don't seem that reasonable to me.  The whole 'it's not a western design and so will hurt tourism' argument is just laughably dumb (imo).

[Tacenda]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

@Tacenda, I hope you know that I'm not picking on you personally, just using your posts to talk about some of the issues that you've brought up. 

There's plenty of room for reasonable people to disagree about the temple issue.  But some people's arguments don't seem that reasonable to me.  The whole 'it's not a western design and so will hurt tourism' argument is just laughably dumb (imo).

I always love your input, and you know the town best. When you shared the photos I see what you mean and I did hear in the podcast that some structures looked Spanish too. So the photo of the Vernal temple wouldn't fit for sure.

If you're interested, and no need to if not, at the marker of about 17:00 minutes in is where they talk about the person that donated the land. I know you had a question about it. https://www.mormonishpodcast.org/episode/cody

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

@Tacenda, I hope you know that I'm not picking on you personally, just using your posts to talk about some of the issues that you've brought up. 

There's plenty of room for reasonable people to disagree about the temple issue.  But some people's arguments don't seem that reasonable to me.  The whole 'it's not a western design and so will hurt tourism' argument is just laughably dumb (imo).

It is very helpful having someone from the area who can comment on this kind of appraisal.  Tacenda is only repeating what someone supposedly familiar with the area said, the equivalent of me passing on something you said (except it helps I know you), so not her fault it wasn’t that accurate and posting here is her way of checking, which is always smart.  In fact, I appreciate her repeating what she has heard so we can hear all sides and then get accurate input from you and other posters who have better access to facts and local color.

[Calm]

I haven’t seen any reference lately to the wildlife issue.  Was that not that big of a deal or have they given up on it influencing the outcome perhaps?

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

If you're interested, and no need to if not, at the marker of about 17:00 minutes in is where they talk about the person that donated the land. I know you had a question about it. https://www.mormonishpodcast.org/episode/cody

A temple that looks like a log cabin?

[Smiley McGee]

4 hours ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

What's making this such a mess

Oh boy it’s a good thing you aren’t leading the church. Far from being a mess this is an amazing opportunity. When all is said and done, not only will the church have a temple, it will have a group of members in that region who are far more cohesive and resolved than they would have been without the perceived opposition. This plays so well into the us vs them, satan attempting to thwart the plan part of LDS psychology that if I were a leader I’d be attempting to manufacture this scenario each time I built a temple. 

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, Smiley McGee said:

Oh boy it’s a good thing you aren’t leading the church. Far from being a mess this is an amazing opportunity. When all is said and done, not only will the church have a temple, it will have a group of members in that region who are far more cohesive and resolved than they would have been without the perceived opposition. This plays so well into the us vs them, satan attempting to thwart the plan part of LDS psychology that if I were a leader I’d be attempting to manufacture this scenario each time I built a temple. 

I'm from this area, and you don't actually know what you are talking about when it comes to these saints and their leaders. 

The number one point being made in private emails to church members from stake leadership is that the people on the other side of the issue are neighbors and friends and fellow community members and that contention and us vs. them mentalities are not appropriate.  They are asking members to react with love and cooperation.

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

A temple that looks like a log cabin?

They mentioned doing an AI temple and that's what it looked like lol. I guess it could work, but after bluebell showed the pics and then I hear there's Spanish looking structures in Cody, I actually think the temple that the church has put forth will work. It's good to have bluebell's comments for sure and I never want to preach to the choir, that's no fun. I'm glad you guys don't get sick of my repeated critical info I hear/read.

[Rain]

17 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Have you ever checked out the architectural work of Catalonian Spaniard Antoni Gaudi (Gow-DEE)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoni_Gaudí

https://tinyurl.com/5a435h5m

I have! Last March.

[Smiley McGee]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

I'm from this area, and you don't actually know what you are talking about when it comes to these saints and their leaders. 

I’m doubtful there is some enclave of members in the west, faithful enough to have a temple, that is somehow unaffected by the church’s collective thinking. 

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said:

I’m doubtful there is some enclave of members in the west, faithful enough to have a temple, that is somehow unaffected by the church’s collective thinking. 

One can be influenced by multiple factors. There is also the Church’s teaching on being good neighbours out there in the Church’s collective thinking, after all.  Which is stronger may be debated, but unless you believe bluebell is lying about local leaders’ efforts to encourage civility, it seems inappropriate to draw a conclusion based on only one part of the Church’s cultural context and teachings. 
 

(type in “good neighbor” in the search function at church website and goodly amount of relevant articles pop up, still getting good articles at 10 pages of hits, which is the max)

Edited August 17, 2023 by Calm

[bluebell]

22 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said:

I’m doubtful there is some enclave of members in the west, faithful enough to have a temple, that is somehow unaffected by the church’s collective thinking. 

I'm doubtful of your ability to speak on behalf of these members (and most other members too).  So we are even.   

[Stormin' Mormon]

37 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said:

I’m doubtful there is some enclave of members in the west, faithful enough to have a temple, that is somehow unaffected by the church’s collective thinking. 

The original concept drawings of the Tucson temple took inspiration from the nearby San Xavier del Bac mission. Pima County asked the church to rework their concept to one that would not be mistaken for a historic building. The Church did so and no one around here felt like we were being persecuted.

Because the County gave clear direction as to what it wanted.

I cannot emphasize this enough. The mess in Cody is not because the local government said "no" to the Church. It's not because the Church isn't getting their way and the members are thus pouting and feeling put upon.

The mess in Cody is because the local government isn't giving clear direction as to what it wants and what it has approved. The process has gotten so garbled that no one (not even the City Attorney) knows if or what the Church has been denied. How does one buttress their persecution complex if they don't even know if they've been wronged? 

If you want to find an example of Church members manufacturing controversy in order to stoke their alleged persecution complex, I'm sure there are plenty of examples out there. This ain't one of them. Not every issue fits neatly into your preconceived boxes. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Stormin' Mormon

[Smiley McGee]

14 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm doubtful of your ability to speak on behalf of these members (and most other members too).  So we are even.   

Article: Todd Christensen, a bishop of a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ward in Cody, said the message clearly is anti-church, not about building codes. 

“I’m pretty sure when they say, ‘not in my neighborhood,’ the same argument has also been extended to ‘not in my town’ and in some instances ‘not in my county,’” he said. “At some point you have to put your foot down and say that’s not right.”

He believes it no different than if someone was trying to argue against Black children being allowed to attend school in their area or members of other religions from being allowed to live somewhere.

“That’s like saying, ‘It’s not about race, but I just don’t want colored kids to go to our school.’ ‘We like Jews but they should just go somewhere else,’” he said.

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said:

Article: Todd Christensen, a bishop of a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ward in Cody, said the message clearly is anti-church, not about building codes. 

“I’m pretty sure when they say, ‘not in my neighborhood,’ the same argument has also been extended to ‘not in my town’ and in some instances ‘not in my county,’” he said. “At some point you have to put your foot down and say that’s not right.”

He believes it no different than if someone was trying to argue against Black children being allowed to attend school in their area or members of other religions from being allowed to live somewhere.

“That’s like saying, ‘It’s not about race, but I just don’t want colored kids to go to our school.’ ‘We like Jews but they should just go somewhere else,’” he said.

And I personally know a lot of members who were upset that he said that and did not agree with him.  It caused a little bit of a scandal.  

And please note that I didn't say that there weren't members that believe they are being persecuted (I'm sure there are).  I said that you didn't know what you were talking about when you claimed that the saints in this area would coalesce and become more resolved through a shared persecution complex.  From what I've seen they are becoming more unified and strong in the sharing of their testimonies and outward support of the church and temple, but that is a much different thing than bonding over an 'us vs. them' mindset.

I've actually been really impressed with the members.  The local papers have shared multiple stories on this on facebook and I haven't yet see any members be unkind when addressing the negative comments.  I could have missed some but if I did they were few and far between.  I was mentioning to my mom how impressed I was by people on both sides of the issue actually.  Almost everyone has been really well behaved.

This is probably because these are communities of only a few thousand people, and everyone really does know everyone else.  They really are friends and family and neighbors, not just in spirit but literally.  It makes it easier to be kind to each other I think, because it's not just anonymous people interacting.  It's people you work with, see in the grocery store every week, frequent their businesses, sit next too at the high school sporting events, etc.  I think that makes a difference.