Local author to share his story of finding belonging as an openly gay Latter-day Saint

[MustardSeed]

23 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I know. It is the truth of most of the world. I just don’t get it. I mean, so many attractive men and women and yet only half of them inspire desire? So weird. Yet normal, since most of the population is monosexual. I am the weird one. It does make me a bit more empathetic when some straight (or gay) person suggests that I will eventually “pick a lane” or that this is just a phase on my way to being gay. I must seem just as odd from the other side.

Not odd any more.  I feel like the odd one but I don’t care. 

[Calm]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

He is attracted to one woman if you believe him.

 But is he attracted to her because she is a woman, or because he loves her?

If people are defining their sexuality in part by not having a choice of at least the type of who they are attracted to and he has chosen to be attracted to her, it seems to be a different type of attraction than what is typically talked about. 
 

I wouldn’t mind if someone comes up with a reason to change my mind about the above. It isn’t something I am committed to because I don’t really go for defining sexuality in those categories anyway as I see them as cultural definitions. I don’t know of labels that would convey the nuances how I think of sexuality to be honest, something that includes fluidity and timing as well as the object of attraction. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Calm

[Dario_M]

17 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Hey, buddy. Yeah many leave to join Dehlin's group, all angry about extremely different issues, their own "pet peeves". More interesting than that, some straights will rage quit about gay issues, on gay people's behalf, while a gay may stay or even leave without any anger.

Soooooo true. 👍 Thank you for recognise that. 💜 I know that you're straight so your honesty is really refresing to me. Thank you brother. ✝️

17 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Aside the self-enrichment motive of Dehlin, I wonder if his anger over every single issue he can't possibly be 100% about, is part of a "savior complex". To consider himself a wonderful helper to those he “helps”, it’s his responsibility to support and uplift variant communities he's not a part of, against any and all issues that don't affect him, because only he has the resources,

Yes he thinks that. But he has become quite arrogant as well. I smell that on all his podcasts. Strange enough in the past (when he was still in the church) he was absolutely pro Mormon. Extreme Ortodox LDS member. And he claims he loved it all. And now suddently he hate the church as if he always hated it. It makes no sense. I can't understand why, one day you can love something so much. And the other day you hate it so badly. So much that you make video's on youtube everyday to make the church look really bad. 

17 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

 

willpower, and intelligence to help. Help for wrong reasons, he considers himself superior, whether he realizes it or not. He swoops in to “make a difference” without stopping to consider whether that difference might not, in fact, have more negative effects than positive ones.

He just wanna spread awereness. And truth about our church. That's what he always says. But his truth and his awereness is not always the real truth. He needs to understand that.

And the things his guests tell him on the podcast can also be twistet information. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

He is attracted to one woman if you believe him.

Maybe he's just lying. And he doesn't feel more then only a friendship for this one woman. And he don't feel sexual attractive to her at all. 🤷‍♂️

[The Nehor]

13 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Not odd any more.  I feel like the odd one but I don’t care. 

No, it is still odd.

11 hours ago, Calm said:

 But is he attracted to her because she is a woman, or because he loves her?

Or is he attracted at all? I don’t know.

11 hours ago, Calm said:

If people are defining their sexuality in part by not having a choice of at least the type of who they are attracted to and he has chosen to be attracted to her, it seems to be a different type of attraction than what is typically talked about. 

I wouldn’t mind if someone comes up with a reason to change my mind about the above. It isn’t something I am committed to because I don’t really go for defining sexuality in those categories anyway as I see them as cultural definitions. I don’t know of labels that would convey the nuances how I think of sexuality to be honest, something that includes fluidity and timing as well as the object of attraction. 

I don’t believe you can choose an attraction. You can be with someone you are not attracted to out of duty or desire to stay with them or fear or any number of reasons. A lot of human history is people being with people they don’t want to be with and who they often weren’t attracted to.

I think the paradigm of sexuality is going to be overthrown soon but i have shared that here before with a theory of what it might look like. I have very mixed feelings about it.

[bluebell]

21 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No, it is still odd.

Or is he attracted at all? I don’t know.

I don’t believe you can choose an attraction. You can be with someone you are not attracted to out of duty or desire to stay with them or fear or any number of reasons. A lot of human history is people being with people they don’t want to be with and who they often weren’t attracted to.

I think the paradigm of sexuality is going to be overthrown soon but i have shared that here before with a theory of what it might look like. I have very mixed feelings about it.

I'm not sure you can choose who you are attracted to either, but I do know that there have been plenty of times before I was married that I was attracted to people before I knew them, and then not attracted to them at all after I knew them.  And times when the reverse was true and I was not attracted to someone before I knew them but suddenly had a crush after becoming friends.

[MustardSeed]

15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

so many attractive men and women and yet only half of them inspire desire? So weird

I find a lot of men and women attractive without desiring them.  I’ve only desired men. Presently I choose where I invest my desire feelings, only towards my husband.  If I opened the door, I would desire other men.  I’ve never experienced desiring women, or a woman, so there is no reason for me to imagine I would.  No point anyway, I’m in a committed relationship and it suits my needs and desires.  I enjoy my female friendships and some of these women are physically attractive but I feel no temptation towards desire for them.
 

I don’t think I’m weird, but some people do. My lesbian friends  think I’m going to change but that’s just wishful thinking. 

[Calm]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Or is he attracted at all? I don’t know.

It is odd to me that it seems acceptable to question his self claimed attraction just because it is different, but it is wrong to question the sincerity of others who aren’t traditional in their self claims.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

I'm not sure you can choose who you are attracted to either, but I do know that there have been plenty of times before I was married that I was attracted to people before I knew them, and then not attracted to them at all after I knew them.  And times when the reverse was true and I was not attracted to someone before I knew them but suddenly had a crush after becoming friends.

I think attraction is not a one dimensional thing, but composed of many variables, some can’t be chosen, others I think can in terms of what we choose to pay attention to and value.  Thus some may choose to get triggered by what someone does because they have decided that art or music or motorcycles or science is sexy.

I once got a massive crush on one of my doctors, a surgeon, but two or three visits after everything was resolved, I just couldn’t see it.  It was, I suspect, triggered by his considerate care of me while I was feeling so vulnerable, but he was also my ideal type except for being at least 20 years older than I was, which kind of creeped me out afterwards, lol.  I had only been married 4 years and I even dreamed of him and didn’t know myself as well then as now, so it worried me.

My husband is not my usual type.  I loved him first and then fell in love with him after I decided what I loved in him was so much better than the physical attributes I first focus on.  Not that he is ugly or anything, I just have a very specific type.  He was unusual enough I wasn’t going to find his kind again.  And I didn’t want to lose that.   And I was right.  Attraction grew over time too.  So it is not that hard for me to imagine physical attraction growing over time for others.  I do recognize there is a big difference between my situation and where we are talking about two different biological sexes, but I believe humans are inherently sexually fluid and it’s culture/upbringing that imposes strict sexual categories of attraction.  I am just trying to present the view this man held of himself in the thread because I also believe people have the right to define themselves in their sexual attraction as well as other attributes (though not always to act on it, it needs to be fully consensual).

Quote

I think the paradigm of sexuality is going to be overthrown soon

I agree with this.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Calm

[bluebell]

49 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think attraction is not a one dimensional thing, but composed of many variables, some can’t be chosen, others I think can in terms of what we choose to pay attention to and value.  Thus some may choose to get triggered by what someone does because they have decided that art or music or motorcycles or science is sexy.

I once got a massive crush on one of my doctors, a surgeon, but two or three visits after everything was resolved, I just couldn’t see it.  It was, I suspect, triggered by his considerate care of me while I was feeling so vulnerable, but he was also my ideal type except for being at least 20 years older than I was, which kind of creeped me out afterwards, lol.  I had only been married 4 years and I even dreamed of him and didn’t know myself as well then as now, so it worried me.

My husband is not my usual type.  I loved him first and then fell in love with him after I decided what I loved in him was so much better than the physical attributes I first focus on.  Not that he is ugly or anything, I just have a very specific type.  He was unusual enough I wasn’t going to find his kind again.  And I didn’t want to lose that.   And I was right.  Attraction grew over time too.  So it is not that hard for me to imagine physical attraction growing over time for others.  I do recognize there is a big difference between my situation and where we are talking about two different biological sexes, but I believe humans are inherently sexually fluid and it’s culture/upbringing that imposes strict sexual categories of attraction.  I am just trying to present the view this man held of himself in the thread because I also believe people have the right to define themselves in their sexual attraction as well as other attributes (though not always to act on it, it needs to be fully consensual).

I agree with this.

I am with Mustardseed, and that I cannot imagine being sexually attracted to a woman. The thought is repulsive (not sure that’s the best way to describe it. I’m not trying to be disrespectful in anyway, but that’s the closest I can get to how it feels when I think about being romantically involved with a woman).

Because I feel that way, it’s helped me to understand why a gay person might not be able to ever see themselves happy with somebody of the opposite sex.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

It is odd to me that it seems acceptable to question his self claimed attraction just because it is different, but it is wrong to question the sincerity of others who aren’t traditional in their self claims.

Maybe it is unfair but I have seen people take this road before. I have heard this story before. It never seems to end well. I don’t hope he fails but I would not be surprised if he does. I even expect it.

[Calm]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

. I have heard this story before. It never seems to end well.

My guess is there are more quiet successes.  There are just a lot of good reasons not to publicize one is gay if in a mixed marriage.  It isn’t that great to publicize many things that make life complicated in fact.  Too many people think they have the right to comment on your life and give you advice without having to listen.  Then there is the expectation of failure or anger that at times gets dumped on couples holding themselves up as examples for anything.  I think in any cause it is helpful to have a public face to it so where needed the ones who are struggling can know they are not alone.  But it puts stress on relationships to be held up as examples.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Calm

[Islander]

On 6/12/2023 at 11:23 AM, smac97 said:

Local author to share his story of finding belonging as an openly gay Latter-day Saint

The "Tabernacle Civic Center" is owned by the City of Rexburg (which purchased it after the 1976 flooding caused by the failure of the Teton Dam).

I've never heard of these guys (and their podcast seems to be pretty small).

Interesting questions, and worth discussing.

One issue I would like to see explored is advice for Latter-day Saints who have a friend or family member who, having left the faith, is in the thrall of "bitterness and anger."  Not all who leave go through this, but some do, and some of those are pretty free with expressing anger/vitriol against the Church (its leaders, doctrines, practices, "culture," membership in general, etc.).  We ought not respond in kind, of course, but I think the inquiry ought not end there.

I would be interested in sociological data about "mixed orientation" marriages in a Latter-day Saint context.  I know of this one from 2015 (authored by John Delin and William Bradshaw), with the following findings:

Skyler Sorenson, referenced above, has published a fair amount (see, e.g., here, here, here, here). 

I think most of us are already aware of the failure of a well-known mixed-orientation marriage of Josh and Lolly Weed.  Alternatively, this is an interesting article about Blaine and Lindsay Hickman (see also here).

Thanks,

-Smac

What a horrendously selfish and insensitive thing to do! That is the textbook definition of narcissism. Why publish the fact that you have abnormal biological urges, which by the way, acting on such would run you against the pillars of the theology of your community. Why wave the gay post sign over your wife and family, that in spite of your struggles with sexuality, are willing to stay and attempt to help you have a normal life in the church? Why subject them to the notoriety and attention for your own selfish needs for attention, aggrandizement, success and special treatment? I wonder what would happen if someone came out as an openly non-active pedophile? Or how about openly restrained adulterer?

What a loser.

 

 

[ttribe]

On 6/14/2023 at 9:26 PM, The Nehor said:

Maybe it is unfair but I have seen people take this road before. I have heard this story before. It never seems to end well. I don’t hope he fails but I would not be surprised if he does. I even expect it.

Yep.

4 minutes ago, Islander said:

What a horrendously selfish and insensitive thing to do! That is the textbook definition of narcissism. Why publish the fact that you have abnormal biological urges, which by the way, acting on such would run you against the pillars of the theology of your community. Why wave the gay post sign over your wife and family, that in spite of your struggles with sexuality, are willing to stay and attempt to help you have a normal life in the church? Why subject them to the notoriety and attention for your own selfish needs for attention, aggrandizement, success and special treatment? I wonder what would happen if someone came out as an openly non-active pedophile? Or how about openly restrained adulterer?

What a loser.

 

 

Oh my, you are a hateful thing, aren't you?

[MustardSeed]

22 minutes ago, Islander said:

What a loser.

I know him personally, he’s complicated but I would use that word to describe him. 

[Okrahomer]

7 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

complicated but I would use that word to describe him. 

Would or would NOT…?

[Calm]

35 minutes ago, Islander said:

What a horrendously selfish and insensitive thing to do! That is the textbook definition of narcissism. Why publish the fact that you have abnormal biological urges, which by the way, acting on such would run you against the pillars of the theology of your community. Why wave the gay post sign over your wife and family, that in spite of your struggles with sexuality, are willing to stay and attempt to help you have a normal life in the church? Why subject them to the notoriety and attention for your own selfish needs for attention, aggrandizement, success and special treatment? I wonder what would happen if someone came out as an openly non-active pedophile? Or how about openly restrained adulterer?

What a loser.

 

 

He and his wife are probably trying to help others who are in the same situation not feel alone, to give them hope. Seeing as how they are setting themselves up for massive criticism, I doubt they did it for narcissistic reasons. There are less controversial, easier ways to get attention. 

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

Would or would NOT…?

My most frequent and dangerous typo…

[MustardSeed]

52 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

Would or would NOT…?

Ah would not. Of course 🤔

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Islander said:

What a horrendously selfish and insensitive thing to do! That is the textbook definition of narcissism. Why publish the fact that you have abnormal biological urges, which by the way, acting on such would run you against the pillars of the theology of your community. Why wave the gay post sign over your wife and family, that in spite of your struggles with sexuality, are willing to stay and attempt to help you have a normal life in the church? Why subject them to the notoriety and attention for your own selfish needs for attention, aggrandizement, success and special treatment? I wonder what would happen if someone came out as an openly non-active pedophile? Or how about openly restrained adulterer?

What a loser.

Don’t sign your posts. It is not a letter.

[california boy]

3 hours ago, Islander said:

What a horrendously selfish and insensitive thing to do! That is the textbook definition of narcissism. Why publish the fact that you have abnormal biological urges, which by the way, acting on such would run you against the pillars of the theology of your community. Why wave the gay post sign over your wife and family, that in spite of your struggles with sexuality, are willing to stay and attempt to help you have a normal life in the church? Why subject them to the notoriety and attention for your own selfish needs for attention n, aggrandizement, success and special treatment? I wonder what would happen if someone came out as an openly non-active pedophile? Or how about openly restrained adulterer?

What a loser.

I just spent this last week on Ibiza celebrating a friends birthday with him.  He turned 60. This week also happened to be gay pride here on the island, something I didn't know until we arrived.  What a beautiful week to be here in Ibiza.  The streets are full at night with people dancing and singing in the narrow streets.  What I saw was a community coming together with people from all over the world and from all different cultures and backgrounds to celebrate diversity and respect to live your life in truth and really not care one bit whether others want to force you into a lifestyle that would only make you unhappy and stressful.  Living a straight lifestyle is not for everyone, nor should anyone be forced into that lifestyle.

I am so happy to be a part of the LGBT community.  I am so happy I am a part of a community that embraces individuality and people that are brave enough to live their own lives the way they want without the kind of stupid narrow minded thinking that your post has in it.  I wish this couple all the love and hope that their life together will have meaning and they can draw strength from each other.  Your vile remarks are in such contrast to the community that I have celebrated with this week.  I hope you can someday find peace in your life so that you don't feel the need to control other peoples lives.  It is not your job to dictate how others should live.  The sooner you realize that, the sooner you will find some inner peace.

Edited June 16, 2023 by california boy

[Peacefully]

2 hours ago, california boy said:

I just spent this last week on Ibiza celebrating a friends birthday with him.  He turned 60. This week also happened to be gay pride here on the island, something I didn't know until we arrived.  What a beautiful week to be here in Ibiza.  The streets are full at night with people dancing and singing in the narrow streets.  What I saw was a community coming together with people from all over the world and from all different cultures and backgrounds to celebrate diversity and respect to live your life in truth and really not care one bit whether others want to force you into a lifestyle that would only make you unhappy and stressful.  Living a straight lifestyle is not for everyone, nor should anyone be forced into that lifestyle.

I am so happy to be a part of the LGBT community.  I am so happy I am a part of a community that embraces individuality and people that are brave enough to live their own lives the way they want without the kind of stupid narrow minded thinking that your post has in it.  I wish this couple all the love and hope that their life together will have meaning and they can draw strength from each other.  Your vile remarks are in such contrast to the community that I have celebrated with this week.  I hope you can someday find peace in your life so that you don't feel the need to control other peoples lives.  It is not your job to dictate how others should live.  The sooner you realize that, the sooner you will find some inner peace.

Well said:) 

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, california boy said:

I just spent this last week on Ibiza celebrating a friends birthday with him.  He turned 60. This week also happened to be gay pride here on the island, something I didn't know until we arrived.  What a beautiful week to be here in Ibiza.  The streets are full at night with people dancing and singing in the narrow streets.  What I saw was a community coming together with people from all over the world and from all different cultures and backgrounds to celebrate diversity and respect to live your life in truth and really not care one bit whether others want to force you into a lifestyle that would only make you unhappy and stressful.  Living a straight lifestyle is not for everyone, nor should anyone be forced into that lifestyle.

I am so happy to be a part of the LGBT community.  I am so happy I am a part of a community that embraces individuality and people that are brave enough to live their own lives the way they want without the kind of stupid narrow minded thinking that your post has in it.  I wish this couple all the love and hope that their life together will have meaning and they can draw strength from each other.  Your vile remarks are in such contrast to the community that I have celebrated with this week.  I hope you can someday find peace in your life so that you don't feel the need to control other peoples lives.  It is not your job to dictate how others should live.  The sooner you realize that, the sooner you will find some inner peace.

Spent this evening at a pride-themed event. It was nice to break out my old gear. Ran into some old friends. Made out with……..ummmm…….never mind.

Anyways it was good.

[Okrahomer]

On 6/16/2023 at 4:13 PM, Calm said:

My most frequent and dangerous typo…

Mine too!

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Islander said:

How about his poor wife and children? As a woman, how do you believe she feels about her husband making public the fact that he actually doesn't like women. He can engage with her, but he rather be with a man. No one is thinking about what this ordeal means for her. Most women are devastated when they find out their husbands are involved with pornography. It has led to divorce in some instances. Imagine her scenario.

Will no one think of the poor victims that I made up in my head who are enduring unfathomable suffering?