Local author to share his story of finding belonging as an openly gay Latter-day Saint

[smac97]

Local author to share his story of finding belonging as an openly gay Latter-day Saint

Quote

Preston Jenkins knows what it’s like to feel like an outsider as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

He is an active, believing member. He’s married and expecting his first child with his wife, Taryn. But his story as a gay member of the church has many hills and valleys.

Jenkins, the author of “This Boy and His Mother,” will share his story and answer questions about his experience Saturday at 7 p.m. at the Rexburg Tabernacle Civic Center at 51 N. Center Street. “Do I Belong? Life As a Gay Latter-day Saint” is intended for an LDS audience, Jenkins says, but all are welcome to attend.

The "Tabernacle Civic Center" is owned by the City of Rexburg (which purchased it after the 1976 flooding caused by the failure of the Teton Dam).

Quote

“‘Do I belong?’ seemed like a big, good umbrella question to ask,” Jenkins says. He notes that although his own experience as a gay member of the LDS Church is the theme of the event, he believes what he has to share can benefit those dealing with other difficulties as well.

Until recently, when he moved to Rexburg to study at Brigham Young University-Idaho, Jenkins was a co-host on the podcast “Sit Down with Sky and Preston,” alongside his friend Skyler Sorensen. The podcast and the hosts have made waves in the online LDS community, as Jenkins and Sorensen are both openly gay but are married to women — a choice that can be controversial even among church members. But he hopes audience members will come with an open mind to hear his perspective. He says he carefully considered his potential audience when planning for the event.

I've never heard of these guys (and their podcast seems to be pretty small).

Quote

“What do people in Rexburg need to hear?” he asks. Jenkins encourages faculty from BYU-Idaho and local ecclesiastical leaders to attend, in hopes that his experiences can help them as they minister to those in their circles who are attracted to those of the same sex. He also hopes that people in the LGBTQ community, or those dealing with any kind of difficult life trauma and are seeking healing, will consider attending.

“How do you belong to the church, and how do you fit in, and how do you find healing when things go awry?” he asks.

Interesting questions, and worth discussing.

Quote

Jenkins spent three years distanced from the church after returning early from his mission in Asia and dealing with trauma from his experience due to his attractions and some abuse. While he always maintained a close relationship with his mother, he says he kept other family members at arm’s length during that time.

“I hated God so much that I hated them too because they reminded me of God,” he says. “When you don’t want to change, you don’t want to be around people who are close to God because God demands change.”

He was suicidal for about six months during that time, he says. In his book, he recounts the support he received from his mother, and how knowing his mother loved him helped him stay alive. But his struggles with depression continued, and he felt that God had abandoned him. Eventually, he says, he became exhausted from maintaining bitterness and anger.

“I threw it out of my own heart,” he says. “Healing was exponential after that.”

One issue I would like to see explored is advice for Latter-day Saints who have a friend or family member who, having left the faith, is in the thrall of "bitterness and anger."  Not all who leave go through this, but some do, and some of those are pretty free with expressing anger/vitriol against the Church (its leaders, doctrines, practices, "culture," membership in general, etc.).  We ought not respond in kind, of course, but I think the inquiry ought not end there.

Quote

Jenkins says the purpose of his outreach is not to dwell on the hard parts of his life, but to “provide context” that might help others in their own struggles.

“I just want this story out there to help people,” he says. “I thankfully had people in my life who would let me ask questions. Let’s engage with this topic. Let’s figure it out.”
...
Jenkins works as a data analyst, but he decided to go back to school recently and is now a marriage and family studies major at BYU-Idaho. His mother, Cheri Jenkins, is in the same major as an online student, and that has been a great experience for them both, he says. Because he was already established in a career, he hadn’t planned to go back to school. He still doesn’t know if it will lead to a career change or not, but he felt like it was something he needed to do.

“It really wasn’t on my mind until God asked me to think about it,” he says.

He says he and his wife have felt very validated by what he has learned since going back to school.

“Everything that we felt led to do is actually sound science,” he says. “We’re getting more vocabulary to describe our experiences.”

Jenkins met his wife, Taryn, on an LDS Church history trip when they were teenagers. After 16 years of friendship, including one false start when they tried dating, he decided to pursue her for real. Jenkins recognizes that his and Taryn’s choice to marry and start a family together is controversial for some people. He says it causes people outside of their relationship a lot more consternation than it causes them, and that they’re actually pretty normal and have a happy marriage. He says the long friendship helps.

“It’s all about friendship,” he says. “Friendship is the bedrock of a healthy marriage.”

On Saturday, Jenkins plans to share his story and then open a Q&A where audience members can ask questions.

“More than anything, it’s a story of ‘How do you come back and find belonging in the fullest sense?’” he says. “I think that’s why people find me so odd. I’m fine living the gospel of Jesus Christ. I like it.”

I would be interested in sociological data about "mixed orientation" marriages in a Latter-day Saint context.  I know of this one from 2015 (authored by John Delin and William Bradshaw), with the following findings:

Quote

The study found that:

• Between 51 percent and 69 percent of mixed-orientation Mormon marriages end in divorce, well above the roughly 25 percent of LDS couples who split up.

• More than 70 percent of LGBT/same-sex attracted Mormons leave the LDS Church.

• 80 percent of respondents reported undergoing efforts to change their sexual orientation — 85 percent of which were religious and private efforts, 31 percent were private efforts only, 40 percent therapist-led and 21 percent group efforts.

• 53 percent rejected their religious identity; 37 percent compartmentalized their sexual and religious identities; 6 percent rejected their LGBT identity; 4 percent integrated the two.

Skyler Sorenson, referenced above, has published a fair amount (see, e.g., here, here, here, here). 

I think most of us are already aware of the failure of a well-known mixed-orientation marriage of Josh and Lolly Weed.  Alternatively, this is an interesting article about Blaine and Lindsay Hickman (see also here).

Thanks,

-Smac

[bluebell]

When I hear the term "openly gay" I think of living a gay lifestyle with same sex romantic partners.  Finding acceptance as an openly gay man who is living a heterosexual lifestyle doesn't seem all that unique or noteworthy. 

Wouldn't it be more weird if he wasn't finding acceptance?

[LoudmouthMormon]

19 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Wouldn't it be more weird if he wasn't finding acceptance?

Well, in the 2+ decades I've been paying attention to the issue, there has always been a reflexive "you can't be a gay mormon" gut-reaction from folks.  These days, most online LDS discussion forums are full of people who understand the whole "orientation isn't a sin, behavior is a sin" aspect to such things, but once you step away from an online discussion forum, that nuanced understanding becomes more rare.  

I'd guess in my ward, if someone was to mention "there's an active believing gay Mormon in Idaho", maybe 20-35% of the reactions would be disbelief or shock.  Because they've never really thought about it, never developed that ounce of mature nuance that literally only takes 5 seconds of thought to obtain.  Or they are happily off refusing to think about such things.   These are the same folks who get bent out of shape when they hear the church's letter on it's political neutrality, refuse to interact with the topic of what the church does in downtown SLC with malls and spending, etc.   Not everyone is interested in non-core-doctrinal things to do with being LDS, and some just plain old stand against talking or thinking about such things.

Edited June 12, 2023 by LoudmouthMormon

[Calm]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I've never heard of these guys (and their podcast seems to be pretty small).

There is a longtime poster in here who goes by Sky, that is gay and an active member in the Church a  no d iirc is married.  He doesn’t post too often.  I wonder….

[Calm]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

When I hear the term "openly gay" I think of living a gay lifestyle with same sex romantic partners.  Finding acceptance as an openly gay man who is living a heterosexual lifestyle doesn't seem all that unique or noteworthy. 

Wouldn't it be more weird if he wasn't finding acceptance?

In the Church definitely, outside it probably varies. 

[smac97]

51 minutes ago, bluebell said:

When I hear the term "openly gay" I think of living a gay lifestyle with same sex romantic partners. 

Yes, I generally think that also. For example, Mitch Mayne has long described himself as "an openly gay, active Latter-day Saint," including when he was the executive secretary of his ward's bishopric (which he has inaccurately described as being "in the bishopric").  However, this may be just an old website, as its latest blog entry dates back to July 2016. Anyway, at the time (2011), the "openly gay" thing created some confusion over at Times & Seasons, and also over at By Common Consent.

But it seems that some folks, particularly of the Latter-day Saint variety, might be using the term to acknowledge their sexual orientation, but not their behavior.

51 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Finding acceptance as an openly gay man who is living a heterosexual lifestyle doesn't seem all that unique or noteworthy. 

Wouldn't it be more weird if he wasn't finding acceptance?

I wonder if the topic is less about acceptance by others, and more about the individual prioritizing and reconciling things for himself.

Thanks,

-Smac

[MrShorty]

So many thoughts, I'm finding it hard to sort them out.

I've been listening to Sky and Preston's podcast for a while. As relatively young people, I was always wondering how their youth colors their experience, how my own age colors my impression of their experience, how their experience seems so similar (if not yet lived out to the same end) to Josh and Lolly Weed, how their experience compares to other mixed orientation couples I'm aware of (like Carol Lynn Pearson or Meghan Decker). Stepping outside of the MOM space, there is also Charlie Bird and his recent engagement to his boyfriend, Ben Schillaty who maintains his single status, David Archuleta and his public story, Tom Christofferson who left his partner of many years to return to the church, and so many other private stories that do not get the public airtime.

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

“How do you belong to the church, and how do you fit in, and how do you find healing when things go awry?” he asks.

This is an excellent question, and I hope Preston is able to provide his perspective on his answer. It seems to me that there are many different experiences with this question and different people having different ways of answering the question. I'm obviously not in charge of this kind of thing, but this question feels like it needs more of a panel discussion with a variety of LGBT people with a range of experience talking about how they have interacted with this question, because it seems obvious that not everyone in this space is having the same experience that Preston is having.

[Buckeye]

I too am confused whether this person is gay or if they are struggling with SSA. The phrases matter greatly.
 

From his choice to marry a woman, I suspect he views himself as experiencing SSA and expects those feelings to end and he become heterosexual at some point in this life or the next. That’s great if it’s his desire and I wish him the best. But that’s not “gay” in the way nearly everyone uses the term.  
 

I would also be very hesitant to recommend his lifestyle choice as I’ve seen too many of those (actually 100% of those I know personally) end in divorce and heartache for the couple and often children. I’m glad the church has stopped recommending his lifestyle.  

[Buckeye]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

 I wonder if the topic is less about acceptance by others, and more about the individual prioritizing and reconciling things for himself.

If the “topic” is his book and/or devotional then it is neither about seeking acceptance or reconciling internally. Those things don’t involve sharing deeply personal things with strangers. A book or devotional is, instead, intended to proselytize and promote the lifestyle others should consider. 

[Calm]

24 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

I too am confused whether this person is gay or if they are struggling with SSA. The phrases matter greatly.
 

From his choice to marry a woman, I suspect he views himself as experiencing SSA and expects those feelings to end and he become heterosexual at some point in this life or the next. That’s great if it’s his desire and I wish him the best. But that’s not “gay” in the way nearly everyone uses the term.  
 

I would also be very hesitant to recommend his lifestyle choice as I’ve seen too many of those (actually 100% of those I know personally) end in divorce and heartache for the couple and often children. I’m glad the church has stopped recommending his lifestyle.  

I have heard it expressed by a gay man that he was naturally attracted to only men, but that over time he became attracted to his wife (before he married her), but only his wife.  He had no attraction to other women.  Physical attraction to his wife required his attention, nurturing where the attraction to men was always there and he had to do the opposite, learn to control those thoughts so they didn’t grow overwhelming.  He didn’t describe it as struggling with ssa, it was more treating his natural attraction in the same way a heterosexual man would treat attractions to other women besides his wife.

I do not know if this is how any other man might describe his mixed orientation marriage.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Calm

[Buckeye]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

I have heard it expressed by a gay man that he was naturally attracted to only men, but that over time he became attracted to his wife (before he married her), but only his wife.  He had no attraction to other women.  Physical attraction to his wife required his attention, nurturing where the attraction to men was always there and he had to do the opposite, learn to control those thoughts so they didn’t grow overwhelming.  He didn’t describe it as struggling with ssa, it was more treating his natural attraction in the same way a heterosexual man would treat attractions to other women besides his wife.

I do not know if this is how any other man might describe his mixed orientation marriage.

That’s helpful. Do you know if this man is still married and if he was able to change his attraction? 

[Calm]

59 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

That’s helpful. Do you know if this man is still married and if he was able to change his attraction? 

No, I don’t.

I doubt his same sex attraction was changed as he wasn’t trying to change it (assuming it could be changed, it might happened if he was more sexually fluid than he perceived at the time, but my guess is even then, some SSA would remain even if OSA appeared).  He certainly wasn’t trying to be attracted to women besides his wife, so highly unlikely he would have experienced opposite sex attraction.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

Glennon Doyle (famous author) I believe claims to be attracted only to her wife but not traditionally lesbian.  She left her family for this arrangement.  From what she shares she seems to be blissfully happy. 
 

I no longer predict what can and can’t work.  Trying to categorize a constant moving target has made me tired.  I just do me and try to stay in that lane. 

[MrShorty]

1 hour ago, Buckeye said:

I too am confused whether this person is gay or if they are struggling with SSA. The phrases matter greatly.
 

From his choice to marry a woman, I suspect he views himself as experiencing SSA and expects those feelings to end and he become heterosexual at some point in this life or the next. That’s great if it’s his desire and I wish him the best. But that’s not “gay” in the way nearly everyone uses the term.  
 

From what he and Sky said in various episodes of their podcast together, I get the impression that they both see themselves as "gay," and experience almost exclusively spontaneous sexual attraction to men. The exception they make is to their wives. They did most of an episode (that I, personally had a hard time listening to) where they talked about how they could each enter their courtship with their wives without the cloud of sexual attraction and libido to cloud their judgement, but that as their relationships developed, they grew to be attracted to their wives in an expression of demisexuality (if I can borrow that term from the asexual community for the phenomenon they described). My impression is that Preston does not expect his marriage to "cure" him of his same sex attraction, but he also believes that, by working on his marriage relationship, he will retain his attraction to his wife and they can have a long and happy marriage. I also think he expects to be cured of his SSA in the resurrection.

 

52 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

That’s helpful. Do you know if this man is still married

As far as I know, Preston was still happily married for the last episode he and Sky did at the end of 2022. I have no reason to believe that anything has changed in the few months since he left the podcast and moved.

I don't know if that helps. I hope that I haven't dramatically misrepresented Preston, since my only knowledge of him and his relationship is from a handful of podcast episodes.

[Calm]

I like how my brother in law, Jeff Robinson, describes it.***  Sexual Attraction is like language (it’s not just an analogy, but there are similar developmental patterns indicating possible similar mechanisms if I understand him correctly, been too long since I talked to him about it).  Everyone (almost) is born with an instinct for language.  We have no choice but to pick up the language we hear around us as infants and young children, further refinements come more intentionally perhaps but also much is just absorbed from our environment. A second language can be picked up by many, and they can become fluent in it, but if neglected they will lose fluency and possible most of the ability.  The older one is, the harder it is to pick up a new language and to maintain it.

Everyone (almost) is born with an instinctual drive towards sexual expression, but what that is depends on our environment. Strength of the drive may depend on biology/internal as well as environmental factors.  Our form of expression also develops and matures as we age.  If our culture is open to experimentation or a variety of sexual expression (multilingualism), we will likely be more prone to experiment and be more sexually fluid….though these varied expressions made be rigidly determined by our culture.  For example, in some cultures SS sexual behaviour before marriage is common, but OS sexual behaviour is afterwards and attraction may vary based on these expectations.

***https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/conference/august-2018/thinking-differently-about-same-sex-attraction

I forgot about his presentation…

Quote

This then leads us to a 5th approach to understanding and dealing with the cause of same-sex attraction.  This 5th approach is the one that I believe is the most truthful and accurate and therefore ultimately, in the long run, the most hopeful and helpful of the approaches. When a client seeks help from me, telling me that their goal is to more fully live the gospel, I try to persuade them to adopt this approach and to allow it to inform their thoughts and feelings regarding their experience of same-sex attraction.

What I tell clients is that the 5th approach to cause is simply this:  that same-sex attraction is just something you know how to do. I then tell them that I’m going to be a human thesaurus. I tell them that same-sex attraction is simply something you know how to do. It is merely something you know how to do. It is only something you know how to do. It is nothing but something you know how to do.

Like the language you speak, it is not something you had any choice in. Also, just as you were not biologically destined at birth to speak in any specific language, it is not something you were biologically hardwired to do. And finally, as with language, is not something that can, or needs to be fixed or cured.

At this point it would be important to point out that what I have said about homosexuality, or same-sex attraction, also applies to heterosexuality. I believe that no specific sexual arousal pattern is hardwired at birth. I believe that all of these are acquired in a cultural context in which, while a person participates, they have little or no choice.

While a person is not born hardwired for any specific language they are born hardwired with an overwhelming propensity to acquire some form of language, as soon as they are physically and mentally able.

Even so I believe that we are not born with any specific arousal patterns but are born with a strong propensity to acquire such patterns as our bodies mature. In fact, it seems to me, that the idea that people are hardwired for the development of heterosexual arousal has been a major cause of misunderstanding regarding homosexuality.

If heterosexuality is a strong biological imperative, which is utterly preprogrammed and inescapable for most people, it follows that if this pattern does not develop in some people, something very significant must have caused this variance. It would take a powerful force to derail the locomotive of heterosexuality that is barreling down the biological tracks. That powerful force might consist of genetic programming, mental illness, or evil choices. But what if, like language, all sexual arousal patterns are learned? Then perhaps the development of same-sex attraction doesn’t require such a large or powerful cause.

I believe that this 5th approach to cause, that same-sex attraction is something a person knows how to do, is congruent and compatible with more facts regarding human sexuality than any other explanation.

It is, like language, compatible with the fact that those who experience same-sex attraction seldom if ever have any sense of having chosen it.

Is compatible with the fact that, for most, same-sex attraction appears to be difficult to alter and impossible to eliminate.

Is compatible with the fact that most individuals who experience same-sex attraction appear to have a least average mental health, and in some cases very good mental health.

It is compatible with the fact that if a gay man has an identical twin there is a roughly 80% chance that his twin will not be gay.

It is compatible with the fact that those who are born and raised in large cities are more likely to experience same-sex attraction that those who are born and raised in small towns or rural communities.

Is compatible with the fact that there appear to be cultures in which same-sex attraction does not exist.

It is also compatible with the fact that there have been cultures in which, at least for men, same-sex attraction was, at least in some form, a nearly universal experience.

It is compatible with the well documented phenomenon of sexual fluidity, the fact that for some individuals sexual attraction does change and evolve over time.

It is further compatible with the fact that when sexual attraction does change it does not shift from one form of attraction to another but expands. Like most things we know how to do, we do not forget how to play the piano when we learn to play the guitar. We do not lose old attractions but we do, sometimes, gain new ones.

It is compatible with the fact that the great majority of those who experience same-sex attraction also experience significant levels of opposite sex attraction. People simply do not fall into the discrete categories that have been constructed for them.

The idea, that same-sex attraction is something a person knows how to do, fits comfortably with my own experience when completing my doctoral dissertation. As I interviewed men who reported that they had quote “overcome” same-sex attraction, each of them told me something like “I could still do it, I still know how, I just don’t want, or need to anymore.”

The idea that sexuality is something that a person knows how to do is also fully compatible with the idea that things we know how to do are always influenced by our biology.

If we were to take, say, an NBA basketball star and a concert pianist, and if we had the ability to look deeply enough into their genes and their biological makeup do you suppose that we would find genetic and biological factors that correlate with the abilities? Almost certainly, and yet we would still consider these to simply be things that they know how to do. We could also be quite certain that, while these genetic or biological predispositions may be present, they would not manifest themselves in individuals who were raised in cultures where there were no basketballs or pianos.

This is the most relevant part for the idea of changing attraction:

Quote

It is further compatible with the fact that when sexual attraction does change it does not shift from one form of attraction to another but expands. Like most things we know how to do, we do not forget how to play the piano when we learn to play the guitar. We do not lose old attractions but we do, sometimes, gain new ones.

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Calm

[CV75]

4 hours ago, MrShorty said:

So many thoughts, I'm finding it hard to sort them out.

I've been listening to Sky and Preston's podcast for a while. As relatively young people, I was always wondering how their youth colors their experience, how my own age colors my impression of their experience, how their experience seems so similar (if not yet lived out to the same end) to Josh and Lolly Weed, how their experience compares to other mixed orientation couples I'm aware of (like Carol Lynn Pearson or Meghan Decker). Stepping outside of the MOM space, there is also Charlie Bird and his recent engagement to his boyfriend, Ben Schillaty who maintains his single status, David Archuleta and his public story, Tom Christofferson who left his partner of many years to return to the church, and so many other private stories that do not get the public airtime.

This is an excellent question, and I hope Preston is able to provide his perspective on his answer. It seems to me that there are many different experiences with this question and different people having different ways of answering the question. I'm obviously not in charge of this kind of thing, but this question feels like it needs more of a panel discussion with a variety of LGBT people with a range of experience talking about how they have interacted with this question, because it seems obvious that not everyone in this space is having the same experience that Preston is having.

I think this is part of a general trend where diversity becomes a virtuous end in itself, but the validation of cascading labels detracts from the reason for sharing personal experience and meaning. This kind of overload seems to create isolation rather than unity. For example, people may not listen because they decide he is not really gay, or gay enough, rather than his -- whatever he chooses to call it -- contributed to his suffering for feeling so different. Which I believe is obviously a more common experience than the many specific ways someone can describe/label themselves.

[The Nehor]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

I have heard it expressed by a gay man that he was naturally attracted to only men, but that over time he became attracted to his wife (before he married her), but only his wife.  He had no attraction to other women.  Physical attraction to his wife required his attention, nurturing where the attraction to men was always there and he had to do the opposite, learn to control those thoughts so they didn’t grow overwhelming.  He didn’t describe it as struggling with ssa, it was more treating his natural attraction in the same way a heterosexual man would treat attractions to other women besides his wife.

I do not know if this is how any other man might describe his mixed orientation marriage.

Honestly that sounds like bisexual with a very strong preference for men. What some would call homoflexible which is a small subset within bisexuality.

[Dario_M]

19 hours ago, smac97 said:

 

One issue I would like to see explored is advice for Latter-day Saints who have a friend or family member who, having left the faith, is in the thrall of "bitterness and anger."  Not all who leave go through this, but some do, and some of those are pretty free with expressing anger/vitriol against the Church (its leaders, doctrines, practices, "culture," membership in general, etc.).  We ought not respond in kind, of course, but I think the inquiry ought not end there.

 

That doesn't only caunt for gay people. Straight people can get as angry when leaving the church compare as gay people. Straight people who have left the church can have developed the same kind of anger against the church as well. Look at John Dehlin, or even (for example) Exmo Lex (i don't know her real name). Both are not gay. But both do feel the same kind of anger against our church. Their anger is so big that they even rand about it on social media. For years now. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Dario_M

[Pyreaux]

9 hours ago, Dario_M said:

That doesn't only caunt for gay people. Straight people can get as angry when leaving the church compare as gay people. Straight people who have left the church can have developed the same kind of anger against the church as well. Look at John Dehlin, or even (for example) Exmo Lex (i don't know her real name). Both are not gay. But both do feel the same kind of anger against our church. Their anger is so big that they even rand about it on social media. For years now. 

Hey, buddy. Yeah many leave to join Dehlin's group, all angry about extremely different issues, their own "pet peeves". More interesting than that, some straights will rage quit about gay issues, on gay people's behalf, while a gay may stay or even leave without any anger.

Aside the self-enrichment motive of Dehlin, I wonder if his anger over every single issue he can't possibly be 100% about, is part of a "savior complex". To consider himself a wonderful helper to those he “helps”, it’s his responsibility to support and uplift variant communities he's not a part of, against any and all issues that don't affect him, because only he has the resources, willpower, and intelligence to help. Help for wrong reasons, he considers himself superior, whether he realizes it or not. He swoops in to “make a difference” without stopping to consider whether that difference might not, in fact, have more negative effects than positive ones.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Calm]

18 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Honestly that sounds like bisexual with a very strong preference for men. What some would call homoflexible which is a small subset within bisexuality.

Why would it be bisexual if he was never attracted to women? (Serious question, not arguing…well, maybe a little because he was very certain he was not attracted to women, just he was attracted to her)  He is attracted to only one person who is a woman.  It sounds to me like he is attracted to the person, not the group the person belongs to.  He is also attracted to men in general, he is attracted to a group even if he isn’t attracted to every member of the group.

Added:  the above is why I am not fond of labels attached to attractions.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Why would it be bisexual if he was never attracted to women? (Serious question, not arguing)  He is attracted to only one person who is a woman.  He is also attracted to men in general.

Good question.  But I cannot picture myself with any woman ever.  If I was sexual partners with a single woman I would no longer personally be able to identify as heterosexual. 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Why would it be bisexual if he was never attracted to women? (Serious question, not arguing…well, maybe a little because he was very certain he was not attracted to women, just he was attracted to her)  He is attracted to only one person who is a woman.  It sounds to me like he is attracted to the person, not the group the person belongs to.  He is also attracted to men in general, he is attracted to a group even if he isn’t attracted to every member of the group.

Added:  the above is why I am not fond of labels attached to attractions.

He is attracted to one woman if you believe him.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Good question.  But I cannot picture myself with any woman ever.  If I was sexual partners with a single woman I would no longer personally be able to identify as heterosexual. 

This mindset is so foreign to me. I believe you. I just find it utterly baffling.

I mean, how can there be such a stark divide? So strange.

[MustardSeed]

38 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

This mindset is so foreign to me. I believe you. I just find it utterly baffling.

I mean, how can there be such a stark divide? So strange.

It’s my truth.  Women annoy me,  men barely make the cut. 

[The Nehor]

10 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

It’s my truth.  Women annoy me,  men barely make the cut. 

I know. It is the truth of most of the world. I just don’t get it. I mean, so many attractive men and women and yet only half of them inspire desire? So weird. Yet normal, since most of the population is monosexual. I am the weird one. It does make me a bit more empathetic when some straight (or gay) person suggests that I will eventually “pick a lane” or that this is just a phase on my way to being gay. I must seem just as odd from the other side.