BYU Study: Pornography use at any level harms romantic relationships

[MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Church teaching in this area has historically been toxic and supported this view. It has thankfully shifted away from the idea that porn consumption is an attack on the spouse and their relationship.

This was a philosophy we copied from other churches. We should really stop doing this. Homosexuality being the result of sin or bad parenting, porn use being about the spouse not being enough, the curse of Cain being a thing……..we really should stop listening to them. It doesn’t seem to go that well.

I work with couples and specialize in treating affairs, and see a lot of couples for whom porn is an issue- interestingly, almost exclusively, only LDS couples are the ones in my office who have conflict over porn.  (I don’t live in utah) 
I wish I had a quarter for every time an LDS man or woman described what I would call very intermittent use of porn “an addiction.” And the pain of the wife discovering porn is akin to an affair- and **it need not be**.  But for women who grew up in the kimball purity era, and believe that their husbands are perverts and freaks, it’s really scary for them and they blame themselves.  I work very hard to help wives establish emotional boundaries and realize that it has nothing to do with them and that they are not enough.  Yes, thank goodness for the shift. 
 

ETA: I recently received a call from a non LDS upset wife, age 65, upset she’d discovered porn. Turns out she was upset because **he hadn’t told her he was using it.** She talked to him about it, he discussed and deleted, and she was fine the next day. So different from my typical LDS clientele.  I want this for them. 

Edited March 25, 2023 by MustardSeed

[MustardSeed]

12 hours ago, california boy said:

I am really curious why you feel like this is a cure for porn addiction.  Where did you get this idea?

 

I think I might understand where they are coming from- I’ve spoken with men and women a few times who are affected in part when they realize the fantasy of the film can be broken down. I’ll never forget my first porn client who broke down when I suggested that it might be likely that the women he was watching may or may not be victims of trafficking or child SA , and that he’d never considered that the women on film who appear to get aroused might just be them faking and acting. 
 

For whatever reason he’d never considered such a thing. 🤷‍♀️

[Hamilton Porter]

On 3/24/2023 at 6:50 PM, pogi said:

My wife almost left me for that reason. 

I'm glad you were able to save your marriage. I hate broken families. Every divorced woman claims her husband had a porn addiction. Every divorced man claims his wife was crazy.

[Hamilton Porter]

On 3/23/2023 at 3:53 PM, Teancum said:

While I am mot an expert on the subject I have read that there is no alcoholic gene

There's no single "gay" gene either, doesn't mean it's not (partly) genetic.

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said:

There's no single "gay" gene either, doesn't mean it's not (partly) genetic.

This article would disagree about the alcohol gene.. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4056340/#:~:text=Abundant evidence indicates that alcoholism,affects on risk for alcoholism.

Plus, we inherit a lot from our ancestors, even trauma can be inherited. https://www.psycom.net/trauma/epigenetics-trauma

[Hamilton Porter]

3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

This article would disagree about the alcohol gene.. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4056340/#:~:text=Abundant evidence indicates that alcoholism,affects on risk for alcoholism.

Plus, we inherit a lot from our ancestors, even trauma can be inherited. https://www.psycom.net/trauma/epigenetics-trauma

Yeah "large number of genes," not a single gene.

Also, over half of all alcoholics have ADHD. I'd probably be an alcoholic were it not for my Latter-day Saint upbringing.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said:

Yeah "large number of genes," not a single gene.

Also, over half of all alcoholics have ADHD. I'd probably be an alcoholic were it not for my Latter-day Saint upbringing.

ADHD is like a magnet for a lot of things that are basically coping mechanisms. I have one hobby where about half those involved have ADHD and the rest probably just haven’t been diagnosed yet.

[why me]

On 3/25/2023 at 3:08 AM, california boy said:

I am really curious why you feel like this is a cure for porn addiction.  Where did you get this idea?

My first job out of college was working for a motion picture company.  One of my jobs was directing the still photographer on the set.  So I have been on a lot of movie sets.  Yet I still have a passionate love for watching movies.  I saw all but one of the Oscar nominated best movies as well as all of the shorts and most of the animation nominees.  Being on set, and seeing how tedious and non glamorous making a movies is, never made me hate watching movies.  Quite the opposite.  I see the art and beauty of a carefully crafted movie when others just see a story.

The lure in a porn movie is the fantasy that one sees on screen. But when viewing just how one is made, the fantasy disappears and a person just sees individuals working on set. And just like a regular movie there are mistakes with the director yelling CUT. Also, the director is in the background reminding the actors to look aroused even though they are not. It is just a job for them. It becomes too human.

[why me]

On 3/24/2023 at 10:22 AM, The Nehor said:

Nice, so a fireside where you just show uncut footage?

This won’t work. It might take the veneer off of porn but if you are dealing with an addiction being disillusioned with the industry isn’t going to solve it. I have talked to people who act in porn films and most of them say they just prefer the amateur content when they watch it or switch to written erotica. I have no reason to believe they were clinical addicts.

People who act in porn will often comment that they just consider it work. Very few are enjoying their work. Once the scene is over they go their various ways. The whole scene is nothing more than an act. It becomes reality, not fantasy. Now of course, one can watch the finished product but knowing what went on behind the scenes, may put a dent in the fantasy.

Edited March 29, 2023 by why me

[why me]

On 3/24/2023 at 12:06 AM, Teancum said:

Sorry but this is about one of the most silly suggestions I think I have ever seen anyone make.

I don't think so. Porn offers visual stimulation through the lens of the camera. But the reality is much different and the porn addict would see the reality if they are on set. It can go like this: the women are hanging around waiting for their scene. They are smoking, laughing, looking bored. The same for the men. They can be engaged in mundane conversation, looking fed up, getting their hair and make up done. Then it is time for their scene and off they go. During the action, the director gives orders, the actors can be out of breath and tired during the scene, all has to be done over etc. It is not such a pretty picture. However, the finished product depending on the porn company is wonderful, no flaws just people looking like they enjoy it. But the reality is much different. And this is why porn actors can be depressed, hooked on substance abuse, or they can be happy with their work. It is hard work to be a porn actor. It just looks easy.

Edited March 29, 2023 by why me

[california boy]

3 hours ago, why me said:

The lure in a porn movie is the fantasy that one sees on screen. But when viewing just how one is made, the fantasy disappears and a person just sees individuals working on set. And just like a regular movie there are mistakes with the director yelling CUT. Also, the director is in the background reminding the actors to look aroused even though they are not. It is just a job for them. It becomes too human.

So you are under the elusion that people who watch porn think it is authentically  showing realistic situations.  And if they knew it was all staged, they wouldn't watch it?????????????????

[Rain]

On 3/24/2023 at 8:22 AM, pogi said:

That is a difficult issue because I think that skin shouldn't be seen as dirty, evil, and porn in and of itself.  That is my concern with this study - people might react by becoming even more aggressive with their   I think that attitude only exacerbates the shame and stigma.  I remember as a young kid my mom would change the channel during underwear or perfume commercials.  She would say in disgust "I wish they wouldn't show this stuff on tv".   I could sense from her that there was something really evil and wrong about it which made me feel all the worse about myself for being naturally intrigued by the opposite sex and sexuality in general.   "There must be something really wrong with me", I would think.  "Good kids wouldn't be attracted to this".  "I am the bishops son, I need to repent for wanting to see it."   Toxic shame and self-beliefs can begin with subtle messages that parents might not even realize they are feeding.  

Kids need to know that their sexual attraction and curiosity is healthy and normal and not sinful and wrong.  They need to know that sexuality is good and beautiful.  That the human body is good and beautiful.  Kids seeing some skin is not going to turn them into addicts, but stigmatizing it, hiding it as if it is poison, and shaming for it might.  It is not the skin that is the problem, it is our unhealthy perceptions of ourselves in relation to it that is the problem.  Kid's are going to be exposed and they need to know the healthy way to feel about themselves after seeing it.   Of course they need to learn boundaries and what is appropriate and what is not, and that is a line that each parent must decide for themselves, but whatever it is, the most important thing is that the kid understands that what they are feeling is normal and is not evil or sinful, even if the material is inappropriate, and they need to be given tools on how to react to those feelings when they arise in healthy ways. 

Off topic, but you reminded me of how people used to and sometimes still view menstrual product commercials as well.   

[Teancum]

17 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said:

There's no single "gay" gene either, doesn't mean it's not (partly) genetic.

What does that have to do with this discussion?

[provoman]

5 hours ago, california boy said:

So you are under the elusion that people who watch porn think it is authentically  showing realistic situations.  And if they knew it was all staged, they wouldn't watch it?????????????????

Bet you think wraslyn is also staged

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

Off topic, but you reminded me of how people used to and sometimes still view menstrual product commercials as well.   

Many women have told me this is a good dating shibboleth.

[Hamilton Porter]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

What does that have to do with this discussion?

alcoholism is genetic just like same-sex attraction is.

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said:

alcoholism is genetic just like same-sex attraction is.

For those who may be curious (not disagreeing with anyone in responding here same-sex attraction is not entirely genetic in the sense that it is in the DNA. If it were identical twins would (almost) always have the exact same sexuality. The almost would would include genetic damage and mutation. There is a correlation suggesting there is a genetic component but not nearly what as often as we should see. The most common explanation last I checked was epigenetics where usually random environmental factors determine how genes express themselves. It is not a conscious choice and trying to create an environment that would ‘force’ a kind of universal heterosexuality would probably be fruitless and would probably be dystopian.

I have a random innocent memory as a small child that some would (if I told them) suggest triggered my same sex attraction. I doubt it though. I suspect I was two or three years old at the time and the memory doesn’t have any elements that suggests it triggered anything. From what I remember my thoughts were incredibly simple and wouldn’t think anything of it.

For someone who seems to like order and exactness God sure did throw in a lot of chaos that seems completely counter to his plan.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, provoman said:

Bet you think wraslyn is also staged

???

[The Nehor]

24 minutes ago, Calm said:

???

Professional wrestling.

Edited March 30, 2023 by The Nehor

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Professional wrestling.

So is this a typo or some nickname or abbreviation I can’t see how it connects?

Or an alternative spelling of Rasslin’?

Google just brought up the last option for me.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Calm

[california boy]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

So is this a typo or some nickname or abbreviation I can’t see how it connects?

Or an alternative spelling of Rasslin’?

Google just brought up the last option for me.

I wrestled in high school.  My mother always called it rasslin for some reason.  She did grow up in Utah.  I thought it was one of her Utah pronunciations.  Kinda look roof and ruff.   I told her, I wrestle.  What she sees on Saturday TV is rassling.  Not the same sport at all.

[Hamilton Porter]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

For those who may be curious (not disagreeing with anyone in responding here same-sex attraction is not entirely genetic in the sense that it is in the DNA. If it were identical twins would (almost) always have the exact same sexuality. The almost would would include genetic damage and mutation. There is a correlation suggesting there is a genetic component but not nearly what as often as we should see. The most common explanation last I checked was epigenetics where usually random environmental factors determine how genes express themselves. It is not a conscious choice and trying to create an environment that would ‘force’ a kind of universal heterosexuality would probably be fruitless and would probably be dystopian.

I have a random innocent memory as a small child that some would (if I told them) suggest triggered my same sex attraction. I doubt it though. I suspect I was two or three years old at the time and the memory doesn’t have any elements that suggests it triggered anything. From what I remember my thoughts were incredibly simple and wouldn’t think anything of it.

For someone who seems to like order and exactness God sure did throw in a lot of chaos that seems completely counter to his plan.

I didn't say it was all genetics. Genetics explains about 30% of the variability in sexual orientation. Human SSA is caused by mostly prenatal forces.

Chaos is a feature of a Fallen world. But we already have a safe drug, prenatal dexamethasone, that reduces the likelihood a girl becomes a lesbian. I am sure there will be more interventions in the future.

 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said:

I didn't say it was all genetics. Genetics explains about 30% of the variability in sexual orientation. Human SSA is caused by mostly prenatal forces.

Chaos is a feature of a Fallen world. But we already have a safe drug, prenatal dexamethasone, that reduces the likelihood a girl becomes a lesbian. I am sure there will be more interventions in the future.

Who is still pushing that dexamethasone is a “cure” for being lesbian and prevents “uppity women” in general? Some kind of witch doctor? I thought this myth was dead and buried.

And safe? LOL

[Hamilton Porter]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Who is still pushing that dexamethasone is a “cure” for being lesbian and prevents “uppity women” in general? Some kind of witch doctor? I thought this myth was dead and buried.

And safe? LOL

No one said anything about preventing. It reduces the likelihood. You're like one of those people hounding at vaccines because sometimes vaccinated people still get COVID.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said:

we already have a safe drug, prenatal dexamethasone

Safe?  Are you sure about that?

A very cautious approach to giving drugs to pregnant women should be used.  There are more than enough horror stories out there to justify this caution.

Quote

Corticosteroids, including dexamethasone, readily cross the placenta. Adverse developmental consequences, including orofacial clefts (cleft lip with or without cleft palate), and intrauterine growth restriction (IUGR), have been documented using corticosteroids during pregnancy. In animal studies, the administration of corticosteroids to pregnant animals during organogenesis resulted in structural abnormalities, embryo-fetal mortality, and growth alteration. Advise pregnant women of dexamethasone's potential risk to a fetus. Dexamethasone is administered with anti-myeloma products that can cause embryo-fetal harm and are contraindicated for use in pregnancy. Human Data suggests that dexamethasone should be used during pregnancy only if the potential benefit justifies the potential risk to the fetus. Multiple courses of antenatal dexamethasone had been associated with reduced birth weight, susceptibility to infections, and increased blood glucose levels in newborns. Neonatal hypoglycemia was also reported. Also, infants should be carefully observed for signs of hypoadrenalism with in-utero exposure to substantial doses of corticosteroids via maternal administration.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK482130/

I was also under the impression it only had a cosmetic effect on genitalia. Do you have the studies showing significant effect on sexual orientation?

Edited March 30, 2023 by Calm