Mediumship or Spirit Channeling

[pogi]

9 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

There is a behind the scenes scam going on.  So called Spiritualism has been debunked for well over 100 years. 🥴

Are you familiar with him, or are you speaking in generalities?

The scammers rely on hot reading (researching the individual before the session) and cold reading (vague leading questions along with other techniques).  I can see how hot reading is possible with some of the stuff.  He works with a lot of celebrities after all, but not all of it can be explained that way.  I don’t see cold reading techniques being used.

One startling example is his reading with Alan Thicke just months before he died.  He warned him of heart issues and to not hesitate to see a doctor about his heart.  Alan wasn’t aware of any heart issues and said “thank you doctor Tyler” kind of dismissively.   A few months later he died of a ruptured aorta.   Some may dismiss it as playing the cards as heart problems are a common killer in men, but I don’t see him making personal medical warnings with any other people.  It is uncanny that the one time he does it, the guy dies a few months later.

He often reveals info that there is no way he could have found in research - info from childhood that nobody knows about - very specific stuff that can’t be derived from cold reading.  If he is a phony, he is unbelievably good at his craft, but also diabolically evil.

It definitely makes me skeptical when he is so clear with others but can’t use his abilities on himself or his own family.

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by pogi

[manol]

3 hours ago, pogi said:

It definitely makes me skeptical when he is so clear with others but can’t use his abilities on himself or his own family.

I know nothing about Tyler Henry, had to look back at your first post to see who you were referring to (but I didn't Google him so that I could do a "hot reading"!).  What you describe in that sentence makes sense to me.  Here is what may be going on when it comes to himself and his own family:

What he is "listening to" when he does a reading may be a very soft internal voice, such that it is EASILY overwhelmed by other, louder internal voices.  Having an agenda or a personal "dog in the fight" or strong emotions may simply OVERWHELM and drown out that very soft internal voice.  So not only does he first have to "tune in" to that "station", but then competing internal voices can create a "signal-to-noise ratio" problem. 

Imo being able to listen without being subjected to much louder competing internal voices can play a big role.  Pogi if I recall correctly you meditate, so this might not be a foreign concept. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by manol

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, pogi said:

One startling example is his reading with Alan Thicke just months before he died.  He warned him of heart issues and to not hesitate to see a doctor about his heart.  Alan wasn’t aware of any heart issues and said “thank you doctor Tyler” kind of dismissively.   A few months later he died of a ruptured aorta.   Some may dismiss it as playing the cards as heart problems are a common killer in men, but I don’t see him making personal medical warnings with any other people.  It is uncanny that the one time he does it, the guy dies a few months later.

He might have said similar things to many others but they wouldn’t have ended up shown in the documentary. Putting in these asides is a good move because the way it is phrased it doesn’t make you a fraud if it doesn’t happen but it makes you brilliant if it works. Especially brilliant if you are really lucky and it happens quickly.

Even assuming he had supernatural powers this may not have been helpful at all. Even if he saw a doctor and asked then to examine his heart the odds are pretty high the doctor wouldn’t have found anything. I am going off of memory on aortic ruptures though so I might be wrong here. In any case aortic ruptures are almost always fatal. Quickly fatal.

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, pogi said:

Are you familiar with him, or are you speaking in generalities?

The scammers rely on hot reading (researching the individual before the session) and cold reading (vague leading questions along with other techniques).  I can see how hot reading is possible with some of the stuff.  He works with a lot of celebrities after all, but not all of it can be explained that way.  I don’t see cold reading techniques being used.

One startling example is his reading with Alan Thicke just months before he died.  He warned him of heart issues and to not hesitate to see a doctor about his heart.  Alan wasn’t aware of any heart issues and said “thank you doctor Tyler” kind of dismissively.   A few months later he died of a ruptured aorta.   Some may dismiss it as playing the cards as heart problems are a common killer in men, but I don’t see him making personal medical warnings with any other people.  It is uncanny that the one time he does it, the guy dies a few months later.

He often reveals info that there is no way he could have found in research - info from childhood that nobody knows about - very specific and unlikely stuff like jumping off a house for fun.  

It definitely makes me skeptical when he is so clear with others but can’t use his abilities on himself or his own family.

My niece has testimonials that verify what you said about the person saying there is no way that she would know something. Here's the website: https://reach150.com/m/review/28071/michelle-murnin-paulson-spiritual-medium-michelle-murnin-paulson-gilroy-ca-blogger-medium

But there again, everyone has their own experiences and opinions. 

[mrmarklin]

I’ll speak specifically and generally. These mediums are total scam artists and frauds.  So is the guy you are referring to. 
 

The great illusionist Harry Houdini, in the 20s, spent a lot of time debunking these guys, and today Penn and Teller do the same thing.  It’s just magic tricks.   But they get very good at convincing people. 
I will point out that an aneurysm of the aorta is not a heart attack. My father died of this. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by mrmarklin

[SkyRock]

I served my mission in Brazil and all my companions were natives.  Most of the missionaries were converts.  Some had belong to various forms of spiritualist faiths.   

Some had been members of demon worshipping churches.   Services included being possessed by a demon.  

[Peppermint Patty]

11 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

I served my mission in Brazil and all my companions were natives.  Most of the missionaries were converts.  Some had belong to various forms of spiritualist faiths.   

Some had been members of demon worshipping churches.   Services included being possessed by a demon.  

The Church of Pat Robertson or Joel Osteen?

[Calm]

15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

He might have said similar things to many others but they wouldn’t have ended up shown in the documentary. Putting in these asides is a good move because the way it is phrased it doesn’t make you a fraud if it doesn’t happen but it makes you brilliant if it works. Especially brilliant if you are really lucky and it happens quickly.

Even assuming he had supernatural powers this may not have been helpful at all. Even if he saw a doctor and asked then to examine his heart the odds are pretty high the doctor wouldn’t have found anything. I am going off of memory on aortic ruptures though so I might be wrong here. In any case aortic ruptures are almost always fatal. Quickly fatal.

This is apparently what he said.  Makes me wonder if he picked up on an external sign of high blood pressure.  The wife said the doctor Thicke went to see two months later gave Thicke a clean bill of health, but unless she was there at the appointment I have my doubts about that.  He could have given Thicke an okay for now, but need to work on… kind of warning that Thicke neglected to share with his wife.  Wouldn’t be the first spouse who didn’t want to worry their partner.  His doctor likely wouldn’t have said anything after Thicke died for a variety of reasons.

Quote

"I want to keep this in mind … I have to talk about health, and it's kind of health with family," Henry tells Alan in the clip. "For the men in your family, it's really good just to consider that blood pressure is going to be something we must keep in mind."

"When it comes to like a family and a gene perspective, it's possible that within your family there might be multiple men who end up at a later age dealing with blood pressure issues, but also deal with either a heart murmur or heart arrhythmia," he continues. "But I feel like I have to go to heart, which correlates with blood pressure."

"So kinda keep that in mind. I have some people who came through and acknowledged passing similarly," says Henry. "It's almost saying like, 'Keep in mind your own heart.'"

Alan then receives a message telling him to "be proactive" about his health.

In an interview with E! News this week, Tanya, who married Alan in 2005, said it's "devastating" to know that Henry sensed something was wrong with Alan's heart.

"The fact that he touched on the heart and kind of kept emphasizing that — my husband went in for a full checkup two months later, and he had a clean health of bill," she said. "What happened to Alan is a massive heart attack — an aorta. It's hereditary, and there was no indication that that was in the family histories. It wasn't something that the doctors would have been looking for."

https://people.com/tv/alan-thicke-warned-about-heart-health-months-before-death/

And while it appears most aortic dissections have genetic factors, not all do, so if there were no indication in the family histories, it may not have been an inherited tendency.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/16743-aortic-dissection

Edited February 19, 2023 by Calm

[Tacenda]

11 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

I’ll speak specifically and generally. These mediums are total scam artists and frauds.  So is the guy you are referring to. 
 

The great illusionist Harry Houdini, in the 20s, spent a lot of time debunking these guys, and today Penn and Teller do the same thing.  It’s just magic tricks.   But they get very good at convincing people. 
I will point out that an aneurysm of the aorta is not a heart attack. My father died of this. 

Disagree wholeheartedly. 

[The Nehor]

11 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

I’ll speak specifically and generally. These mediums are total scam artists and frauds.  So is the guy you are referring to. 
 

The great illusionist Harry Houdini, in the 20s, spent a lot of time debunking these guys, and today Penn and Teller do the same thing.  It’s just magic tricks.   But they get very good at convincing people. 
I will point out that an aneurysm of the aorta is not a heart attack. My father died of this. 

This.

There are techniques to make this work. It even sometimes happens that the psychic intuitively picks up the ability to do a cold reading and then convinces themselves they have powers. There are also ways to elicit information that trick the other person’s mind into remembering it as the psychic bringing it up. Where psychic guesses are checkable (crime solving for instance) they use the same techniques and are often wrong. Tests where they give all the case evidence to detectives and psychics show that the psychics don’t provide any more insight or correct information than a detective can.

Skeptics can use psychic techniques and convince people they are psychics and then have a hard time convincing the people they did it to that it was a trick.

[blackstrap]

True or false ?

1. We  (LDS) believe that there is an actual material spirit world.

2. We recognize that there can be communication between that world and ours through dreams , visions, NDEs and personal visits.

3. It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled - MT

[The Nehor]

16 minutes ago, blackstrap said:

True or false ?

1. We  (LDS) believe that there is an actual material spirit world.

2. We recognize that there can be communication between that world and ours through dreams , visions, NDEs and personal visits.

3. It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled - MT

1. True.

2. We recognize that there can be communications but I would hesitate to limit how that interaction works to certain venues and there is a danger in saying “this is how it happens” as it might make people look for it in experiences it didn’t happen.

3. True. Changing our convictions is literally painful.

[Calm]

6 hours ago, blackstrap said:

We recognize that there can be communication between that world and ours through dreams , visions, NDEs and personal visits.

I believe this. But psychic readings and mediums feel too much like treating the Spirit like a vending machine. 

[manol]

19 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

I’ll speak specifically and generally. These mediums are total scam artists and frauds. 

If you were Joseph Smith's non-member neighbor in the 1820's or 1830's, would you have automatically assumed he was just another scam artist and fraud? 

If not, why not? 

19 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

It’s just magic tricks.   But they get very good at convincing people.

What might persuade you to consider the possibility that it's not always "just magic tricks"? 

45 minutes ago, Calm said:

I believe [that there can be communication between that world and ours through dreams, visions, NDEs and personal visits].   But psychic readings and mediums feel too much like treating the Spirit like a vending machine. 

I think I understand your aversion to the idea of the supposedly spiritual taking place in what appears to be a non-spiritual setting and for what appear to be mostly non-spiritual purposes.  I don't have enough experience to address this aspect, but would you be less uncomfortable if money didn't change hands? 

In your opinion, are there limitations to our web-like interconnectedness which preclude the possibility of someone like @Tacenda's neice being legitimate? 

Could someone who is not a stake patriarch be able to tune-in to and/or through Spirit for the benefit of others? 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, manol said:

think I understand your aversion to the idea of the supposedly spiritual taking place in what appears to be a non-spiritual setting and for what appear to be mostly non-spiritual purposes.  I don't have enough experience to address this aspect, but would you be less uncomfortable if money didn't change hands? 

Definitely money would have to not be in the picture at all except perhaps to cover actual costs, like gas or rental…not the time spent however.  
 

But it is more like expecting a spirit to be at your beck and call.  I get that some say the dead spirits are looking for a conduit to speak to their loved ones, I don’t see why they wouldn’t speak to them directly in those cases.  The living must be receptive enough to the idea not to block it if they accept what the medium says, so surely the dead could find some avenue besides a stranger.  Maybe they think the medium is living worthy to talk to spirits when they aren’t, but in that case I don’t see it as likely the spirits talking at all.  If they are worthy enough to hear the message through a stranger, they are worthy enough to hear it directly, whether in a vision or dream or deep impression.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Calm

[manol]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Definitely money would have to not be in the picture at all except perhaps to cover actual costs, like gas or rental…not the time spent however.  

That's what I expected; your reservations are similar to what mine were (and still are to some extent).  I'm more open now to someone being paid for a service rendered, such that there is a fair exchange, wherein each receives from the other something that is beneficial to them, even if the exchange is not "like for like". 

1 hour ago, Calm said:

But it is more like expecting a spirit to be at your beck and call.

Why wouldn't free agency be fully in play, especially for spirits in a realm free from the constraints of linear time?  (I'm not trying to be snarky.) 

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I get that some say the dead spirits are looking for a conduit to speak to their loved ones, I don’t see why they wouldn’t speak to them directly in those cases.  The living must be receptive enough to the idea not to block it if they accept what the medium says, so surely the dead could find some avenue besides a stranger.  Maybe they think the medium is living worthy to talk to spirits when they aren’t, but in that case I don’t see it as likely the spirits talking at all. 

I don't have enough experience with mediums to have a coherent picture of what it's like for any of the parties involved.   But this thought comes to mind:

Perhaps there is a gift or ability to "tune in" involved (whether innate or cultivated or both), which only a small percentage of people have or have developed to that extent. 

1 hour ago, Calm said:

If they are worthy enough to hear the message through a stranger, they are worthy enough to hear it directly, whether in a vision or dream or deep impression.

By this same reasoning, if someone is worthy enough for God to send them a message via a friend or a hymn or a bishop or a book or a sunrise or a patriarchal blessing or a scripture, then they would theoretically be worthy enough to hear it directly from God, whether in a vision or dream or deep impression.  But for most of us the signal path involves someone or something else. 

That being said, I don't disagree with you that if a person is worthy enough to hear a message through an intermediary, they are worthy enough to hear it directly.  But they may (temporarily?) have limiting perceptions which interfere with direct communication.

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by manol

[Tacenda]

32 minutes ago, manol said:

That's what I expected; your reservations are similar to what mine were (and still are to some extent).  I'm more open now to someone being paid for a service rendered, such that there is an exchange, wherein each gets from the other something that is beneficial to them, even if the exchange is not "like for like". 

Why wouldn't free agency be fully in play, especially for spirits in a realm free from the constraints of linear time?  (I'm not trying to be snarky.) 

I don't have enough experience with mediums to have a coherent picture of what it's like for any of the parties involved.   But this thought come to mind:

Perhaps there is a gift or ability to "tune in" involved (whether innate or cultivated or both), which only a small percentage of people have or have developed to that extent. 

By this same reasoning, if someone is worthy enough for God to send them a message via a friend or a hymn or a bishop or a book or a sunrise or a patriarchal blessing or a scripture, then they would theoretically be worthy enough to hear it directly from God, whether in a vision or dream or deep impression.  But for most of us the signal path involves someone or something else. 

That being said, I don't disagree with you that if a person is worthy enough to hear a message through an intermediary, they are worthy enough to hear it directly.  But they may (temporarily?) have limiting perceptions which interfere with direct communication.

 

Manol, thank you for being open to Mediums being paid and being legit and not a big scam every time. I believe there are scams and I struggled for a little bit with my niece being a paid Medium. I do remember watching a movie, I think it was a true story but maybe not, about someone like my niece and how in the movie people were coming out of the woodwork to get this guys help in communicating with their loved ones. That takes a lot of time out of their lives, and that's how I think it's okay, or feel a little better about it. And when you think about it, did Joseph Smith speak with God/Jesus? Aren't they from the other side? And then you have prophet/apostles/general authorities that are paid a stipend, and I read somewhere it could be up to around 120,000 a year or more now with the cost of living. So when putting it into that context maybe it could be argued that they deserve to be paid for their time and possibly the emotions that can take a tole on their bodies.  

IMO, I believe it's a gift that can be immediate like my niece since she was three, which happens a lot. Or I believe it can be learned as well. I believe in ghosts too, and their being in someone's home and haven't moved on. There are hundreds if not thousands of those situations in the world and that tells me, they can communicate through a Medium. 

[manol]

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Manol, thank you for being open to Mediums being paid and being legit and not a big scam every time. I believe there are scams and I struggled for a little bit with my niece being a paid Medium. I do remember watching a movie, I think it was a true story but maybe not, about someone like my niece and how in the movie people were coming out of the woodwork to get this guys help in communicating with their loved ones. That takes a lot of time out of their lives, and that's how I think it's okay, or feel a little better about it.

Thank you Tacenda. 

At one point I studied several different "energy healing" modalities, and one in particular left a bad taste in my mouth because imo it over-emphasized money changing hands and had a lot of ego-tripping and self-aggrandizement going on.  I suspect the founder had something very different in mind but then it became a business after he was gone. 

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

And when you think about it, did Joseph Smith speak with God/Jesus? Aren't they from the other side? And then you have prophet/apostles/general authorities that are paid a stipend, and I read somewhere it could be up to around 120,000 a year or more now with the cost of living. So when putting it into that context maybe it could be argued that they deserve to be paid for their time and possibly the emotions that can take a tole on their bodies.  

Agreed.

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

IMO, I believe it's a gift that can be immediate like my niece since she was three, which happens a lot. Or I believe it can be learned as well.

Very interesting. 

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I believe in ghosts too, and their being in someone's home and haven't moved on. There are hundreds if not thousands of those situations in the world and that tells me, they can communicate through a Medium. 

We lived in an old house for a while and there were several "ghosts" who seemed to have an attachment to the place.  My wife sees them more than I do.  One time she and my teenage son (by a previous marriage) interacted with a ghost that he could feel (with his hands) and she could see (confirming that he was indeed tracing its outline with his hands).  I mention this incident because two or more simultaneous witnesses are rare.

On the day that we moved out, my wife and I and two of my friends who had helped us load the truck had just about finished.  The four of us watched a small object move about eight or ten inches "on its own", right in the middle of the four of us.  My friends were kinda freaked out but my wife and I took it as our ghosties bidding us farewell. 

When I was in my early teens there was this young man my mother had introduced to the church.  Mom gave a talk in church one day, and afterwards the young man came up to us and told her that there had been an elderly man in spirit watching her and smiling.  From his description mom guessed that it was "Uncle Bob", and she went on to say that Uncle Bob had had cerebral palsy.  The young man said, "Well that would explain something:  His held his head tilted way over to the left."  Yup, THAT was Uncle Bob!  His head laid on his left shoulder when I had known him. 

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, manol said:

If you were Joseph Smith's non-member neighbor in the 1820's or 1830's, would you have automatically assumed he was just another scam artist and fraud? 

Probably.

7 hours ago, manol said:

What might persuade you to consider the possibility that it's not always "just magic tricks"? 

Them being right when it is checkable and their track record so far is not good.

Real information about the afterlife. Something that makes the dead appear to be interested in something other than whispering warm fuzzies. How about real advice coming through? Not being so ridiculous that I just roll my eyes at their antics. That they would stop phone bombing the parents of high-profile missing children offering help in exchange for money. Not prostituting themselves in the already vapid enough sewer of daytime television.

That would be a good start.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, manol said:

.When I was in my early teens there was this young man my mother had introduced to the church.  Mom gave a talk in church one day, and afterwards the young man came up to us and told her that there had been an elderly man in spirit watching her and smiling.  From his description mom guessed that it was "Uncle Bob", and she went on to say that Uncle Bob had had cerebral palsy.  The young man said, "Well that would explain something:  His held his head tilted way over to the left."  Yup, THAT was Uncle Bob!  His head laid on his left shoulder when I had known him. 

That is horrifying. The dead still have cerebral palsy and are elderly?

[manol]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

That is horrifying. The dead still have cerebral palsy and are elderly?

Of course not!  He was showing up in a way that would enable my mother to identify him based on her friend's description.  Kinda like Jesus showing up with a hole in his side. 

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Real information about the afterlife.

IF (<- and that's a big "IF") such exists, would it interest you? 

Edited February 20, 2023 by manol

[Calm]

7 hours ago, manol said:

That's what I expected; your reservations are similar to what mine were (and still are to some extent).  I'm more open now to someone being paid for a service rendered, such that there is a fair exchange, wherein each receives from the other something that is beneficial to them, even if the exchange is not "like for like". 

I think a problem arises then when the honest need to support oneself as well as the dishonesty of greed creates a reason to present any actual interaction with the spirit in ways that will maximize income including pretending there is a spiritual exchange when there is not.

Quote

Why wouldn't free agency be fully in play, especially for spirits in a realm free from the constraints of linear time? 

It is the lack of respect I see in it at times treating spirits as performers, especially when used for our entertainment, not that spirits are actually at our beck and call.

Creating a reality show of a medium’s interactions with celebrities is a perfect example of pandering to a very non spiritual desire to bring in the cash, imo.

Such experiences should be treated more like the temple or a sacramental time.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Calm

[manol]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

I think a problem arises then when the honest need to support oneself as well as the dishonesty of greed creates a reason to present any actual interaction with the spirit in ways that will maximize income including pretending there is a spiritual exchange when there is not.

Of course that would be a problem! 

3 hours ago, Calm said:

It is the lack of respect I see in it at times treating spirits as performers, especially when used for our entertainment, not that spirits are actually at our beck and call.

Creating a reality show of a medium’s interactions with celebrities is a perfect example of pandering to a very non spiritual desire to bring in the cash, imo.

Such experiences should be treated more like the temple or a sacramental time.

Thanks for clarifying.

I assume from your posts and @The Nehor's that there are some unsavory daytime TV shows and/or reality shows with or about mediums, and I don't think that's the best way to arrive at an informed opinion about mediums who are in it for the right reasons (and who would be unlikely to end up on such a show) .  By way of example, there might be a docu-drama depicting the church or its members which presents a distorted view.  Even as an ex-member I found "Under the banner of heaven" so distorted that I stopped watching after the second episode. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by manol

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 2/17/2023 at 6:55 AM, MiserereNobis said:

How many of you believe a Ouiji board actually contacts spirits, and how many of you believe it is bunk?

Sorry to be late to respond, but this is a good story:

I had a very successful experience trying to contact a spirit with an Ouija board.  Her name was Renee.  She was in a fuzzy white sweater.  She was 15, the older sister at a friend's sleepover.  We gathered around the Ouija board, and every single adolescent brain cell in my head was totally focused on seeing how much of my arm I could bring into contact with her arm, as we worked the planchette thingy.  I don't remember a single question we asked the board, or a single answer it gave, but I connected more with Renee's spirit through those 5-6 inches of arm-to-sweatered-arm, than I ever had with anyone else in my whole life to that point.   Quite heady stuff for a 12 yr old boy.  To this day white fuzzy sweaters on my partner is still almost a spiritual experience to me.

Anyway, I'm a believer that there is such a thing as the host that followed Lucifer out a-temptin' humanity, and I do believe we can do things to make their jobs easier or harder.  If we go looking for trouble, it is there to be found.  But nah, two bucks of cardboard with a well-packaged sticker placed on it, marketed by the Hasbro toy company, the same company that makes My Little Pony, isn't exactly the plague on our youth that my grandma thought it was.

Honestly, every time someone brings up such things, I'm teleported back in my memory to that night.  And when seeing today's passionate believers needing to warn us, I feel the same vibe as the kid in that group who almost went home because we brought the thing out.  He looked like he was about to cry.  (I'm not pointing to anyone in this thread, just the attitude in general.)

Edited February 20, 2023 by LoudmouthMormon

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 2/17/2023 at 6:03 PM, Bernard Gui said:

After a few minutes, a bald man wearing a red toga came out. I think he was barefooted. “Well this is strange,” we thought. He was odd but pleasant enough, so we presented our first-encounter discussion. Somehow the conversation turned to priesthood. We explained Joseph Smith’s experience. Then he said, “I will show you my priesthood.”

The feeling in the room changed  dark immediately. He came back and said, “This is my priesthood.” He held in his hand a disk about 3” in diameter with runes, symbols, creatures engraved and soldered on one side. “This is my priesthood power.”

There was a palpable feeling of evil in the room. We were inspired to leave immediately, which we did. An unusual experience.

I have heard similar countless stories from people, including smart folks who appear to be huge fans of reason and science.  It's interesting watching them try to find a reasonable explanation (like brain chemicals, or picking up on pheromones or body language), and being troubled with how unpersuasive they find the non-supernatural explanations.

So yeah, I believe in spirits, I believe we each have one, and it radiates from us in ways.  I also believe what I'm taught about the third part that followed Satan.  I don't know details, but it's not like I can rule it all out as pre-scientific-advancement superstition.