Sunday second-hour meetings are to open with a prayer

[JAHS]

Church announces Sunday second-hour meetings are to open with a prayer

Sunday School classes and Sunday meetings for elders quorums, Relief Society, Aaronic Priesthood quorums and Young Women should begin with a prayer.

A Dec. 21 notice sent from the Priesthood and Family Department to stake, mission and district presidencies; bishoprics and branch presidencies; and stake and ward councils said the practice of opening the second-hour Sunday meetings with prayer should begin immediately.

Citing the Church’s “General Handbook: Serving in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” the notice also reminded recipients of the language and length for prayers in Church meetings as well as who may offer prayers.

Under the heading “Prayers in Church Meetings,” section 29.6 states: “Prayers in Church meetings should be brief, simple, and directed by the Spirit. Any baptized Church member may offer an opening or closing prayer. …

“Members should pray using words that express love and respect for Heavenly Father. In English, this includes the pronouns Thee, Thy, Thine, and Thou when addressing Him.”

When the Church announced a change to the Sunday meeting schedule in October 2018, direction was given that Sunday School, elders quorum, Relief Society, Aaronic Priesthood quorum and Young Women “will not begin with an opening hymn or prayer but will conclude with a closing prayer” (see enclosure to the First Presidency letter dated Oct. 6, 2018).

_______________

Some wards that share a building might begin the Sunday meetings with Sunday School/ PH/RS rather than Sacrament, so this will ensure a prayer is said at the beginning of the meetings regardless of what the schedule is.

[bluebell]

I always thought it was so weird that we didn't open those meetings with prayer anymore but only closed with it. I wonder why they made the first change and why they are now going back?

[ksfisher]

21 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I always thought it was so weird that we didn't open those meetings with prayer anymore but only closed with it. I wonder why they made the first change and why they are now going back?

I thought it was strange also.  Primary was to open with a prayer, but none of the other 2nd hour meetings.

When I was EQ president after a while I started calling on people to open the meeting with a prayer.  It just felt better to me.

[ksfisher]

36 minutes ago, bluebell said:

 I wonder why they made the first change and why they are now going back?

I can't imagine why the change was made.  I'm sure it was talked and prayed about before hand though.

I don't know about anyone else, but sometimes I feel the answer I get from the Lord, when praying about making a change is something along the lines of, "try it and see how it works." 

I think it was tried and decide that things worked better how it had always been done. 

[Calm]

I think it was to save time. But they probably decided it helped get the class going and increased the sense of the Spirit, so any time gained was not worth the cost. 
 

The only other reason I can think of was they wanted to convey that it was not two separate meetings, but one so that people would commit to going to both. But if so, they should have been explicit about it several times to teach the concept to help with committing.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Calm

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think it was to save time. But they probably decided it helped get the class going and increased the sense of the Spirit, so any time gained was not worth the cost. 
 

The only other reason I can think of was they wanted to convey that it was not two separate meetings, but one so that people would commit to going to both. But if so, they should have been explicit about it several times to teach the concept to help with committing.

Time could have been a reason, but they would only be saving about 30 seconds if that since most opening prayers for the second hour are short.  One meeting would be less likely to me, since we have a closing prayer in sacrament meeting implying that one ended and a new one was starting.

[bluebell]

18 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I can't imagine why the change was made.  I'm sure it was talked and prayed about before hand though.

I don't know about anyone else, but sometimes I feel the answer I get from the Lord, when praying about making a change is something along the lines of, "try it and see how it works." 

I think it was tried and decide that things worked better how it had always been done. 

That could be, it would make sense. 

These are the kinds of things that I wish our leaders were more forthcoming with.  I can't see a reason to withhold process or reasons for the changes, and it seems obvious that members are going to wonder about them. 

I suppose there is always a chance that more information on the process will be made known at a different time.  

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

Citing the Church’s “General Handbook: Serving in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” the notice also reminded recipients of the language and length for prayers in Church meetings as well as who may offer prayers.

Under the heading “Prayers in Church Meetings,” section 29.6 states: “Prayers in Church meetings should be brief, simple, and directed by the Spirit. Any baptized Church member may offer an opening or closing prayer. …

Hey @Navidad, am I remembering correctly that you and/or your wife have prayed in LDS church meetings? I'm curious what you (as someone who attends) and our LDS friends think of this rule.

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

“Members should pray using words that express love and respect for Heavenly Father. In English, this includes the pronouns Thee, Thy, Thine, and Thou when addressing Him.”

Uh oh! It's a list of Preferred Pronouns!  

ETA: I see the pronoun thread is already covering this. Carry on!

Edited December 21, 2022 by MiserereNobis

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

The only other reason I can think of was they wanted to convey that it was not two separate meetings, but one so that people would commit to going to both. But if so, they should have been explicit about it several times to teach the concept to help with committing.

I had considered that at one point as well, but if that were the case then they should have done away with the benediction during sacrament meeting as well.

 

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

I thought it was strange also.  Primary was to open with a prayer, but none of the other 2nd hour meetings.

This.

If there was a reason to not start the second hour with a prayer then why wouldn't that reasoning apply to Primary. I was never able to come up with a good answer. Maybe that was their plan all along...

 

[JAHS]

43 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Hey @Navidad, am I remembering correctly that you and/or your wife have prayed in LDS church meetings? I'm curious what you (as someone who attends) and our LDS friends think of this rule.

Not sure what "rule" you are referring to, but some wards like to have husband and wife say the opening and closing prayers at a Sacrament meeting. More of a tradition than anything else.

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I always thought it was so weird that we didn't open those meetings with prayer anymore but only closed with it. I wonder why they made the first change and why they are now going back?

It always made sense to me, because I felt the opening prayer in sacrament meeting sufficed. 
 

But I’m good either way. 

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Not sure what "rule" you are referring to, but some wards like to have husband and wife say the opening and closing prayers at a Sacrament meeting. More of a tradition than anything else.

As a former ward executive secretary (and thus charged with lining up the prayers for sacrament meeting) it was for me a matter of convenience as much as anything else. Saved making two phone calls when I could just contact one household. 

[Scott Lloyd]

Interesting that there is a re-emphasis on the language of prayer (thee, thou, thy and thine). We were sort of drifting away from that to the point that I think some folks thought the directive had been dropped. I guess we know the answer now. 

[JAHS]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I always thought it was so weird that we didn't open those meetings with prayer anymore but only closed with it. I wonder why they made the first change and why they are now going back?

It always made sense to me, because I felt the opening prayer in sacrament meeting sufficed. 
 

But I’m good either way. 

But like I said earlier, some wards have to have their second hour first, so there would be no prayer at all until the end of class time. I have a feeling this is why they made this announcement.

[rchorse]

2 hours ago, JAHS said:

“Members should pray using words that express love and respect for Heavenly Father. In English, this includes the pronouns Thee, Thy, Thine, and Thou when addressing Him.”

This is one thing that I wish would change. It just makes prayer feel stiff and awkward rather than speaking with a Father. In every other language I am aware of, members use the familiar form of address (tu in spanish, du in german, for example), which is what one normally uses when speaking to friends and family. I know thee, thou, etc. are technically the familiar forms in English, as well. But they're so archaic that I'm not sure it's really accomplishing the goals.

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Not sure what "rule" you are referring to, but some wards like to have husband and wife say the opening and closing prayers at a Sacrament meeting. More of a tradition than anything else.

I think he's referring to this part of the news release:

"Any baptized Church member may offer an opening or closing prayer. …"

[JAHS]

5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

As a former ward executive secretary (and thus charged with lining up the prayers for sacrament meeting) it was for me a matter of convenience as much as anything else. Saved making two phone calls when I could just contact one household. 

Our ward is not so pro-active. Right before Sacrament meeting starts they walk around and grab whoever is there and ask them to pray. They have even asked members from the podium to pray, assuming they will agree. 😊

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, rchorse said:

I know thee, thou, etc. are technically the familiar forms in English, as well. But they're so archaic that I'm not sure it's really accomplishing the goals.

Especially when the handbook writers believe that thee, thou, etc. are used specifically to show respect.

"Under the heading “Prayers in Church Meetings,” section 29.6 states: “Prayers in Church meetings should be brief, simple, and directed by the Spirit. Any baptized Church member may offer an opening or closing prayer. …

“Members should pray using words that express love and respect for Heavenly Father. In English, this includes the pronouns Thee, Thy, Thine, and Thou when addressing Him.”

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

As a former ward executive secretary (and thus charged with lining up the prayers for sacrament meeting) it was for me a matter of convenience as much as anything else. Saved making two phone calls when I could just contact one household. 

I was under the impression they changed this habit because it was causing the single brothers and sisters to be left out, but I could be remembering wrong.

[Calm]

1 minute ago, JAHS said:

Our ward is not so pro-active. Right before Sacrament meeting starts they walk around and grab whoever is there and ask them to pray. They have even asked members from the podium to pray, assuming they will agree. 😊

They used to do this in my wards when I was young.  I can’t remember if it disappeared when we switched to 3 hours or after that.

[JAHS]

4 minutes ago, rchorse said:

This is one thing that I wish would change. It just makes prayer feel stiff and awkward rather than speaking with a Father. In every other language I am aware of, members use the familiar form of address (tu in spanish, du in german, for example), which is what one normally uses when speaking to friends and family. I know thee, thou, etc. are technically the familiar forms in English, as well. But they're so archaic that I'm not sure it's really accomplishing the goals.

I think it is simply more expected to use the "proper" pronouns and has been done for so many years that it sounds strange when people don't use them. Quite often new members of the Church will not use them and I don't think anyone in the audience really cares that much about it. Maybe it's different in Utah.

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Interesting that there is a re-emphasis on the language of prayer (thee, thou, thy and thine). We were sort of drifting away from that to the point that I think some folks thought the directive had been dropped. I guess we know the answer now. 

Yep, God gets upset when you refuse to use the pronouns that He chooses for Himself.

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Especially when the handbook writers believe that thee, thou, etc. are used specifically to show respect.

"Under the heading “Prayers in Church Meetings,” section 29.6 states: “Prayers in Church meetings should be brief, simple, and directed by the Spirit. Any baptized Church member may offer an opening or closing prayer. …

“Members should pray using words that express love and respect for Heavenly Father. In English, this includes the pronouns Thee, Thy, Thine, and Thou when addressing Him.”

I’ve read too much Old English stuff to see it as a gesture of respect and deference.

So much bad love poetry.

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I think it is simply more expected to use the "proper" pronouns

I just wonder what makes them the "proper" pronouns?  Tradition?