Jump to content

Meridian of time


Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

If Christ came in the meridian of time why do we expect Him back before 4000 C.E.?

Thank you. 

Because meridian is not exactly the same as median.  Median refers to the midpoint.  Meridian is sometimes used the same but it has a more specific meaning.

When speaking of time meridian refers to the point of most light, the zenith, the high point.

This is often connected with a half point, but not always.

Link to comment
22 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Because meridian is not exactly the same as median.  Median refers to the midpoint.  Meridian is sometimes used the same but it has a more specific meaning.

When speaking of time meridian refers to the point of most light, the zenith, the high point.

This is often connected with a half point, but not always.

Also, I don't think the thousand year periods are measured with a stopwatch. They are general time periods that are (I believe), accurate, but not precise. 

Link to comment
32 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Because meridian is not exactly the same as median.  Median refers to the midpoint.  Meridian is sometimes used the same but it has a more specific meaning.

When speaking of time meridian refers to the point of most light, the zenith, the high point.

This is often connected with a half point, but not always.

This allows that the Meridian of Time is determined by the light of His Coming rather than His coming being determined by a pre-set point in time, and it allows a cooperative or combination of both.

Link to comment
30 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Because meridian is not exactly the same as median.  Median refers to the midpoint.  Meridian is sometimes used the same but it has a more specific meaning.

When speaking of time meridian refers to the point of most light, the zenith, the high point.

This is often connected with a half point, but not always.

We  might want to think of the denouement, which precedes the climax (eschaton) of history, which includes the millennium of a thousand additional years.  Someone  might also want to count each dispensation, the dispensation of the fullness of times preceding that millennium.  Could you chart that out for us?  It's been done before, you know.

Link to comment
6 minutes ago, CV75 said:

This allows that the Meridian of Time is determined by the light of His Coming rather than His coming being determined by a pre-set point in time, and it allows a cooperative or combination of both.

Perhaps so.  However, there may be a set of pre-planned occasions laid out in advance according to the calendar of God.  That we do not always understand it, does not mean that it is not precisely planned.

Link to comment
30 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Perhaps so.  However, there may be a set of pre-planned occasions laid out in advance according to the calendar of God.  That we do not always understand it, does not mean that it is not precisely planned.

Yes, as with the various dates of Joseph Smith's interactions with God and angels.

And the dates of pre-planned events may also get adjusted "from time to time."

Link to comment

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/jesus-the-christ/chapter-6?lang=eng

Quote

Unto Moses, with whom the Lord spake “face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend,” the course of the human race, both as then past and future, was made known; and the coming of the Redeemer was recognized by him as the event of greatest import in all the happenings to which the earth and its inhabitants would be witness. The curse of God had aforetime fallen upon the wicked, and upon the earth because of them, “For they would not hearken unto his voice, nor believe on his Only Begotten Son, even him whom he declared should come in the meridian of time, who was prepared from before the foundation of the world.” In this scripture appears the earliest mention of the expressive and profoundly significant designation of the period in which the Christ should appear—the meridian of time. If the expression be regarded as figurative, be it remembered the figure is the Lord’s.

The term “meridian,” as commonly used, conveys the thought of a principal division of time or space; thus we speak of the hours before the daily noon as ante-meridian (a.m.) and those after noon as post-meridian (p.m.). So the years and the centuries of human history are divided by the great event of the birth of Jesus Christ. The years preceding that epoch-making occurrence are now designated as time Before Christ (B.C.); while subsequent years are each specified as a certain Year of our Lord, or, as in the Latin tongue, Anno Domini (A.D.). Thus the world’s chronology has been adjusted and systematized with reference to the time of the Savior’s birth; and this method of reckoning is in use among all Christian nations.

https://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Meridian_of_Time

Quote

The meridian of time has been defined by one LDS apostle as "the middle or high point of that portion of eternity which is considered to be mortal time" (MD, 1966, p. 486). It is the dispensation in which Jesus Christ lived in mortality. The term does not occur in the Bible, but is found in the Doctrine and Covenants (20:26;39:3) and in the Book of Moses (5:57;6:57, 62;7:46).

The word "meridian" suggests the middle. According to Old Testament genealogies, from the Fall of Adam to the time of Jesus Christ was approximately 4,000 years. It has been nearly 2,000 years since Jesus' birth. The millennial reign will commence "in the beginning of the seventh thousand years" (D&C 77:12). After the Millennium there will be a "little season," the exact length of which is not revealed, but it could be several hundred years. In the context of these events, the Lord's mortal ministry took place near the meridian, or middle, of mortal time (DS 1:81).

The meridian of time may also be seen as the high point of mortal time. Latter-day revelation shows that all of the ancient prophets looked forward to the Messiah's coming (Jacob 4:4; Mosiah 13:33-35;15:11). His coming fulfilled their prophecies, and he was prefigured in the Law of Moses (Mosiah 13:29-32) and in ancient ceremonial ordinances (Moses 5:5-8). The meridian of time is the apex of all dispensations because of the birth, ministry, and Atonement of Christ. Without him all prophetic writings and utterances would have had no efficacy, and the hopes of mankind today and forever would be but futile desires and yearnings without possibility of fulfillment. MARSHALL T. BURTON

https://askgramps.org/can-we-determine-the-timing-of-the-2nd-coming-by-defining-meridian-of-time/

Quote

Question

Hi Gramps,

First off, EXCELLENT site! Long overdue!

Anyway, my question is: How can anyone think the millenium is soon at hand given the following:

1). The Lord came in the “meridian” of time. That means the Lord came into the world in the year 3,500 of 7,000 years. Here we are, 2014 years later, making it the year 5,514 (or there about, +- 4 years)… Nowhere near the 6,000 year mark. Now, I’m assuming that the year 3,500 IS the meridian of time.

2) Unless the post-millennial time is 500 years (which would make for a very, very long “season”) or the definition of “meridian” has another meaning, time frames don’t appear to match up.

Also, I heard that Wilford Woodruff or another Apostle or prophet stated something like the rising generation would not altogether pass away before the Lord returns.

Please help me understand my miscalculation.

Thank you so much.

Dan

Answer

Hi Dan,

Meridian has more than one definition, as such, there may be more than one way to interpret “meridian of times” meaning. As we consider the timeline you have provided, then it would appear, assuming we only interpret “meridian” as “the middle”, that the Lord’s birth did not occur at the meridian of time. However, meridian has other definitions which you can look up also from dictionaries: Webster, dictionary reference, and free dictionary online. These sources provide a different outlook when meridian is also defined as:

1. A high point

2. A point or period of highest development, greatest prosperity, or the like

3. The highest point or stage of development; peak: “Men come to their meridian at various periods of their lives.” (Sentence given as an example).

In light of these definitions, the meridian of time could possibly mean the birth of Christ as the highest point or stage since the creation of Adam and Eve. In view of these definitions, and the timeline you have provided, then we can agree and verify that Joseph Smith may have meant the highest point, or period, in human history. However, let us take another view as given by Joseph Fielding Smith with regard to a different timeline:

“[O]ur Savior came in the meridian of time. That dispensation is called the dispensation of the meridian of time. This means that it was about halfway from the beginning of “time” to the end of “time.”. Anyone who desires can figure it for himself that our Lord came about 4,000 years from the time of the fall. The millennium is to come some time following the 2,000 years after his coming. Then there is to be the millennium for 1,000 years, and following that a “little season,” the length of which is not revealed, but which may bring “time” to its end about 8,000 years from the beginning.”(Doctrines of Salvation 1:81, emphasis in original)

As we consider the words of Joseph Fielding Smith, then the Savior’s birth was literally around, or at, the “meridian of time.”

With regard to Wilford Woodruff, after reading his biography, he strongly felt and wouldn’t have been surprised if the Lord returned during the life of those who were still living. Other prophets have spoken the same thing, example, Joseph Fielding Smith, who once declared:

“Some Now Living May See Second Coming The day of the coming of the Lord is near. I do not know when. I am not looking, however, upon the coming of the Son of Man as I looked once upon the day when men would speak from city to city and throughout the land without the aid of wires, and would be heard – as some – thing that may come in some far distant time – because I sincerely believe it will come in the very day when some of us who are here today [April 5, 1936] will be living upon the face of the earth. That day is close at hand.” (Doctrines of Salvation 3:2)

However, these were their opinions in light of their studies and what prophecies were being fulfilled. If Joseph Fielding Smith is correct the millennium will begin in less than 30 years, as he mentioned at this conference that he felt some in the audience would be alive when the Savior comes. Yet, we know this may not be the case because it was his personal opinion.

With regard to the Savior’s coming, I agree with Joseph Smith, it will be no later or earlier than the day he arrives.

Sincerely,

Gramps

Thanks,

-Smac

Link to comment
36 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Yes, as with the various dates of Joseph Smith's interactions with God and angels.....................

Exactly.  Some of those are extraordinary, such as his receipt of the Gold Plates right on schedule, and the dedication of the Kirtland Temple at just the right time.  And then the Mormon Exodus featuring companies 1 and 2 in a Jewish Jubilee Year, with the Miracle of the Seagulls in between.  Add to that the exact fulfillment of the 600-year prophecy of Jesus' Birth (from the time Lehi left Jerusalem), and Jesus' exact length of life from then to his death, all recorded in the BofM.  The NT has Jesus begin his ministry at the outset of a Sabbatical Year -- he even reads the very words in a synagogue on that occasion.  These can all be seen in retrospect.  Maybe not so easy to calculate them on into the future.

Link to comment

Modern humans have been on Earth for about 200,000 years.  The Earth is about 4.5 Billion years old. 
Not sure if the scriptures mean the meridian of time of humans or the Earth, so Christ could return in either 200,000 years or 4.5 billion years minus 2021 years.

Link to comment

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Please?

Link to comment

1828 Webster's Dictionary, http://www.webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/meridian

Quote

MERID'IAN, noun [Latin meridies.]

1. In astronomy and geography, a great circle supposed to be drawn or to pass through the poles of the earth, and the zenith and nadir of any given place, intersecting the equator at right angles, and dividing the hemisphere into eastern and western. Every place on the globe has its meridian and when the sun arrives at this circle, it is mid-day or noon. whence the name. This circle may be considered to be drawn on the surface of the earth, or it may be considered as a circle in the heavens coinciding with that on the earth.

2. Mid-day, noon.

3. The highest point; as the meridian of life; the meridian of power or of glory.

4. The particular place or state, with regard to local circumstances or things that distinguish it from others. We say, a book is adapted to the meridian of France or Italy; a measure is adapted to the meridian of London or Washington.

Magnetic meridian a great circle, parallel with the direction of the magnetic needle, and passing through its poles.

MERID'IAN, adjective Being on the meridian or at mid-day.

The sun sat high in his meridian tower.

1. Pertaining to the meridian or to mid-day; as the sun's meridian heat or splendor.

2. Pertaining to the highest point; as, the hero enjoyed his meridian glory.

3. Pertaining to the magnetic meridian

Simplistic answers come from narrow definitions and a lack of careful reflection.  An additional difficulty comes when we are blind to the ritual nature of the Fall in the midst of the Garden-Temple event participated in by adam & eve.  We of all people ought to see the Creation and Garden Stories for what they are and are not.  Moreover, the dispensational sequence is a ritual sequence.

 

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

Modern humans have been on Earth for about 200,000 years.  The Earth is about 4.5 Billion years old. 
Not sure if the scriptures mean the meridian of time of humans or the Earth, so Christ could return in either 200,000 years or 4.5 billion years minus 2021 years.

The dispensational sequence is a ritual sequence, not a historical sequence -- same as when we go to the Temple.

Link to comment
39 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I will probably burn at His coming but……..yeah, I am okay with it.

Yeah. I can dig it.

Link to comment
1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

It is also looking more likely all the time. The anti-Christ appears to have been born.

 

I would check up on the pool serviceman. 

Link to comment
27 minutes ago, Fether said:

What leads you to expect this?

My scriptural literalist tendencies.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...