Harry T. Clark Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 28 minutes ago, Calm said: If there was, I would. It would not be in my interest or the interest of my extended family or friends to ignore issues with the vaccine anymore that it is in my interest to ignore problems and deaths caused by Covid. You keep asking similar questions and some of us have already answered in detail about how we are quite capable of accepting mistakes by Pharma and the government agencies. At this point, you continuing to ask comes across like you are trying to convince readers/lurkers that we are close minded to actual data, etc. rather than actually wanting to know our views. Well, you seem too ready to discount anything other than the vaccine narrative. It makes me wonder. -1
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) Out of curiosity, I just went to this VAERS website and filled in the form to report an adverse event, using completely fabricated details. I let them know that a person in my family died after a Covid vaccine. Literally none of the data was checked, including addresses, clinic name, etc., except for the age of the person being cross-checked against the birthdate I had entered. I intentionally tested all of these. For example, I said that the person lived in a city in Washington that doesn't exist in that state, and then I gave a postcode for Utah and a telephone area code for another state altogether. I made up the name of the clinic that gave the vaccine and its address. The only problem detected was when the age (52) didn't match the birthyear (2000). I got to the last page of the online form and had the option to submit, which I didn't do. There is a disclaimer at the bottom of each page, 'Warning: Knowingly filing a false VAERS report with the intent to mislead the Department of Health and Human Services is a violation of Federal law (18 U.S. Code § 1001) punishable by fine and imprisonment', but I have no legal reason to be deterred by that since I'm not subject to American law. Very interesting. I could have just upped the number of reported post-vaccine deaths in the US if I'd wanted to. For multiple reasons, of course, I don't want to, but I'm certain there are people who do and have, including both people who hate vaccines and people who hate America. Our local system is very different. First, it's not publicly accessible. Following each dose of the vaccine, I was sent a text with a link to an online government form. The form was uniquely linked to me. Each person is asked to fill in this form after each dose. Out of curiosity, I attempted to use the link to fill in the form a second time. No go; I was told that I had already completed that report. And since I'm there, here are our current outcomes: Reports of death following Covid vaccination have been made for 0.002 per cent of all doses given. These have all been investigated. Only 1.6 per cent of these reported deaths were found to have been caused by the vaccine (AstraZeneca in each case). Edited October 7, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan 4
poptart Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Thanks for sharing, it's thought provoking and I've got a lot to do to help and not hinder others. The USA isn't a culturally Christian country anymore, the people who cheered on the death of lukewarm Christians were fools. You now have a few generations of people who grew up outside religion and now we're seeing the results. I'm not the biggest fan of how religion here is stateside but far as I can tell, outside of decent parenting it was the churches who promoted family values, helping the poor, compassion for the weak and the value of community. Now we have neither in a lot of the USA. I wanna see elder Holland get real with people at conference, if I knew he'd start taking off the kid gloves I'd almost be tempted to show up. Edited October 7, 2021 by poptart
Harry T. Clark Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, The Nehor said: You would think with over 6 billion doses administered now you could substantiate that beyond “whataboutism” and one case. Do you understand what "whataboutism" is? Here is what Merriam Webster says: Quote Whataboutism gives a clue to its meaning in its name. It is not merely the changing of a subject ("What about the economy?") to deflect away from an earlier subject as a political strategy; it’s essentially a reversal of accusation, arguing that an opponent is guilty of an offense just as egregious or worse than what the original party was accused of doing, however unconnected the offenses may be. Why don't you walk me through your thinking on this accusation, given the above definition? Misere Nobis was asking for proof of what Celestial was claiming and I stepped in to provide a little and show where the issue was with VAERS, where I thought he got his incomplete information. Your "whataboutism" accusation is simply out of place. Anyway, glad to hear you didn't catch covid. I had it and suffered for a couple of days and was really tired for about two weeks.
Calm Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said: Well, you seem too ready to discount anything other than the vaccine narrative. It makes me wonder. I am ready to discount stuff I have read that doesn’t have the data to support it. I have been doing in depth research on Covid since it first appeared and have several friends and acquaintances who have as well, including a few who think much of it is overstated, misreported. I tend to read mostly medical reports or journals for my info too as MSM isn’t the best for details or accuracy. Edited October 7, 2021 by Calm 1
Harry T. Clark Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Out of curiosity, I just went to this VAERS website and filled in the form to report an adverse event, using completely fabricated details. I let them know that a person in my family died after a Covid vaccine. Literally none of the data was checked, including addresses, clinic name, etc., except for the age of the person being cross-checked against the birthdate I had entered. I intentionally tested all of these. For example, I said that the person lived in a city in Washington that doesn't exist in that state, and then I gave a postcode for Utah and a telephone area code for another state altogether. I made up the name of the clinic that gave the vaccine and its address. The only problem detected was when the age (52) didn't match the birthyear (2000). I got to the last page of the online form and had the option to submit, which I didn't do. There is a disclaimer at the bottom of each page, 'Warning: Knowingly filing a false VAERS report with the intent to mislead the Department of Health and Human Services is a violation of Federal law (18 U.S. Code § 1001) punishable by fine and imprisonment', but I have no legal reason to be deterred by that since I'm not subject to American law. Very interesting. I could have just upped the number of reported post-vaccine deaths in the US if I'd wanted to. For multiple reasons, of course, I don't want to, but I'm certain there are people who do and have, including both people who hate vaccines and people who hate America. Our local system is very different. First, it's not publicly accessible. Following each dose of the vaccine, I was sent a text with a link to an online government form. The form that was uniquely linked to me. Each person is asked to fill in this form after each dose. Out of curiosity, I attempted to use the link to fill in the form a second time. No go; I was told that I had already completed that report. And since I'm there, here are our current outcomes: Reports of death following Covid vaccination have been made for 0.002 per cent of all doses given. These have all been investigated. Only 1.6 per cent of these reported deaths were found to have been caused by the vaccine (AstraZeneca in each case). You are when you go to a site run by the US government and deliberately falsify a report. At that point, you subject yourself to US jurisdiction. I suggest you take it down if that is possible.
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Harry T. Clark said: You are when you go to a site run by the US government and deliberately falsify a report. At that point, you subject yourself to US jurisdiction. And how exactly is the US Government going to prosecute an anonymous non-American living outside of the US? Quote I suggest you take it down if that is possible. Mate, you need to read more carefully: 16 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: I got to the last page of the online form and had the option to submit, which I didn't do ... I could have just upped the number of reported post-vaccine deaths in the US if I'd wanted to. For multiple reasons, of course, I don't want to ... 1
Calm Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) Quote , you seem too ready to discount anything other than the vaccine narrative. It makes me wonder. Maybe you should wonder why someone who has personally tried numerous alternative treatments and supplements (most because friends wanted to help, but a number chosen to try based on my own research of studies suggesting possible help at the time, such as kava kava; some have helped a great deal at least for a time, some I can no longer take or don’t because of interaction with required medication..had to dump tons that interact poorly with synthyroid…no other workable alternative for that yet), in part because of nasty side effects from “safe” drugs; someone who distrusts Pharma and many government agencies (I don’t think most gov people are malicious or intentionally screwing up, but they are full of inefficiencies and miscommunications in my experience); and someone who currently uses a product sold for animals as a disinfectant (I know the professor who created it and know some involved in the clinical trials to get it approved in the US for humans…great success with diabetes sores so far for one, and know it has been approved in Canada for use in the hospital for intubation to prevent secondary infections) comes across so strongly for the vaccine narrative…almost as if the data is solid for the success of vaccines vs the risks. Show me the documentation if you want to change my mind. I have changed my mind on several things related to Covid as the data has changed. So far nothing you have shown comes close to doing that and at times your evidence says the opposite of what you are claiming, Edited October 7, 2021 by Calm 2
Harry T. Clark Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: And how exactly is the US Government going to prosecute an anonymous non-American living outside of the US? Mate, you need to read more carefully: It would be our duty as officers of the court to track you down and make sure justice was served if and when you landed in the US or perhaps we would be compelled to contact the government over there asking for consent to allow us to arrest you and take you back here. lol Glad to hear you didn't push submit, mate, it would be a felony under US law. All joking aside, VAERS was set up in consultation with the pharmaceutical industry over here, precisely so doubt could be raised regarding adverse reactions and deliberate avoidance of investigation could occur. -1
MiserereNobis Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said: All joking aside, VAERS was set up in consultation with the pharmaceutical industry over here, precisely so doubt could be raised regarding adverse reactions and deliberate avoidance of investigation could occur. If that’s the case, then VAERS is inherently unreliable. Will you join with those of us who have decried using VAERS as evidence that 15,000 have died because of the vaccines? I mean, it’s unreliable, right? 4
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said: All joking aside, VAERS was set up in consultation with the pharmaceutical industry over here, precisely so doubt could be raised regarding adverse reactions and deliberate avoidance of investigation could occur. Well, our system appears to be a bit more tamper-proof and trustworthy, and it shows that, despite our use of AstraZeneca, the chance of dying from a Covid vaccine is only 1 in 2,977,777 doses (or 1 in 1,488,888 people considering that our vaccines are all two-dose). I'll take those odds! And in fact, I literally did, having received both does of the AstraZeneca vaccine. Extrapolating our reliable and thoroughly investigated figures to America means you've probably had no more than 268 people die from a Covid vaccine -- probably far fewer considering that all our deaths have been caused by a vaccine that America doesn't even use. Edited October 7, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan 2
CelestialSeething Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 4 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said: You know what other things have been reported? Electric shocks Query Criteria: State / Territory: The United States/Territories/Unknown Symptoms: ELECTRIC SHOCK Vaccine Products: COVID19 VACCINE (COVID19) Group By: Vaccine Show Totals: True Show Zero Values: False COVID19 (COVID19 (JANSSEN)) (1203) 1 7.14% COVID19 (COVID19 (MODERNA)) (1201) 7 50.00% COVID19 (COVID19 (PFIZER-BIONTECH)) (1200) 6 42.86% Total 14 100.00% Also, old people getting pregnant Query Criteria: State / Territory: The United States/Territories/Unknown Symptoms: PREGNANCY WITH ADVANCED MATERNAL AGE Vaccine Products: COVID19 VACCINE (COVID19) Group By: Vaccine Show Totals: True Show Zero Values: False COVID19 (COVID19 (MODERNA)) (1201) 1 50.00% COVID19 (COVID19 (PFIZER-BIONTECH)) (1200) 1 50.00% Total 2 100.00% Maybe that's how Abraham got Sarah pregnant at such an old age. He gave her a mRNA covid19 vaccination. There was also a snake bite reported. Love it! You're questioning the CDC. How dare you? What are you some kind of anti-vaxx conspiracy theorist? https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2021/10/06/swedendenmark-moderna-n2597038 https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/scary-reports-deaths-following-covid-19-vaccination-arent-what-they-seem https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-increases-risk-of-heart-inflammation-and-blood-clots-more-than-the-vaccines-studies-find/ 1
CelestialSeething Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 5 hours ago, pogi said: 5 hours ago, Danzo said: My brother's father in law just passed away after what appeared to be a reaction from the COVID booster shot. Acording to what I heard, he started suffereing from multiple organ failure about three hours after recieving the Booster shot They kept him alive for about a week before he passed away. I am not sure which shot he recieved. Apparently he hasn't been in good health the last couple of years so that may have played a part. After the funeral is over and things settle down a bit, I will try and see if I can get more information on the details. I'm sorry, Danzo. The booster shot and the prior two shots may not be causal nor the confounding factor but I would suggest they were contributing factors in a correlational relationship to his passing. -1
CelestialSeething Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 5 hours ago, pogi said: No, it doesn't necessarily mean anything to me. I have been injected twice too and will eventually die of something - your not giving me much info here. With the vast majority of old, frail, and sick people being vaccinated there are bound to be a significant amount of coincidental deaths at the time surrounding vaccination. Believe it or not sick, old, frail people die a lot every day. We have to see if those deaths around vaccination are any greater than average. They aren't. What was determined to be the cause of death on their death certificate? Oh, thier death certificates? They all read: **** you And those who weren't old, frail and sick? I suppose it was just "thier time," eh? This is by design. Why are more affluent countries, predominantly Christian, first to get injected? Hmm. Profit motive: check. Religious aceptance of death: Check. Obedient sheep who will get injected because 6% of people died from covid had no other long term chornic health problems, no comorbidities, etc. https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/scary-reports-deaths-following-covid-19-vaccination-arent-what-they-seem https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2021/10/06/swedendenmark-moderna-n2597038 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-increases-risk-of-heart-inflammation-and-blood-clots-more-than-the-vaccines-studies-find/ Norway and Sweden are probably conspiracy theorists as well, just like CBS. Don't worry though. You're safe cause you've been injected. -2
CelestialSeething Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 4 hours ago, pogi said: I am all about being open and honest no. you're not. You're a condescending prick who rejects data and evidence that run contrary to the swill you've swallowed and been injected with. -5
Peacefully Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Danzo said: My brother's father in law just passed away after what appeared to be a reaction from the COVID booster shot. Acording to what I heard, he started suffereing from multiple organ failure about three hours after recieving the Booster shot They kept him alive for about a week before he passed away. I am not sure which shot he recieved. Apparently he hasn't been in good health the last couple of years so that may have played a part. After the funeral is over and things settle down a bit, I will try and see if I can get more information on the details. I’m sorry for your loss:( 1
Calm Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 25 minutes ago, CelestialSeething said: https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/scary-reports-deaths-following-covid-19-vaccination-arent-what-they-seem Why did you post this link?
strappinglad Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) On 9/13/2021 at 4:16 PM, The Nehor said: that will prevent us from contracting a deadly disease that is ravaging our community An absolute lie. Israel and Singapore are two of the most heavily vaccinated countries in the world and both are now experiencing high case levels of covid. The vaccine WILL NOT PREVENT ONE FROM CONTRACTING THE DISEASE. It might keep one from a severe case. There are fully vaccinated people in hospital and some of them in ICU. 3,577 new COVID cases in Singapore; 3 unvaccinated deaths (msn.com) Note: Singapore is 80% vaccinated. The US is about 55% Edited October 7, 2021 by strappinglad 1
Peacefully Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, CelestialSeething said: no. you're not. You're a condescending prick who rejects data and evidence that run contrary to the swill you've swallowed and been injected with. Please stop theme name calling and spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories. Pogi is a healthcare worker and always posts solid, helpful information that he can back up. Can you say the same? 1
MiserereNobis Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 32 minutes ago, CelestialSeething said: no. you're not. You're a condescending prick who rejects data and evidence that run contrary to the swill you've swallowed and been injected with. Ad hominim, the last refuge of the logically defeated. Bye! 3
strappinglad Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 6 hours ago, pogi said: 1,226 reports of myocarditis after mRNA vaccination were received during December 29, 2020–June 11, 2021. I recently watched an ' expert ' say that cases of myocarditis may have come because of improperly injecting the vaccine into a vein in the arm instead of the muscle. He said they should draw back the suringe to see if they see blood and if seen they likely hit a vein and should try another spot.
MiserereNobis Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, strappinglad said: I recently watched an ' expert ' say that cases of myocarditis may have come because of improperly injecting the vaccine into a vein in the arm instead of the muscle. He said they should draw back the suringe to see if they see blood and if seen they likely hit a vein and should try another spot. Link?
Calm Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, strappinglad said: I recently watched an ' expert ' say that cases of myocarditis may have come because of improperly injecting the vaccine into a vein in the arm instead of the muscle. He said they should draw back the suringe to see if they see blood and if seen they likely hit a vein and should try another spot. https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab707/6353927
Calm Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) Quote Although experts are cautious about drawing conclusions from animal studies, the paper has unleashed a long-simmering debate about whether healthcare providers should take additional steps to ensure a needle doesn’t inadvertently enter a vein during vaccination. However, even doctors in favor of additional precautions say inadvertent injection in a vein is extremely unlikely. Providers inject the COVID vaccines into the shoulder, where there are few large blood vessels nearby. Quote However, other experts say previous research on plunger withdrawal found it had more drawbacks than benefits. “You have to leave the needle in longer,” said Dr. Kirk Knowlton, the director of cardiovascular research at Intermountain Medical Center Heart Institute in Salt Lake City, Utah. “It gets jiggled around a little bit. It’s more painful.” Dr. Knowlton said tweaking the injection method sounds simple, but it would require new training on a large scale. https://www.10news.com/news/in-depth/in-depth-can-a-simple-technique-stop-myocarditis-after-covid-vaccination hopefully there will be data soon showing if it helps more than hurts: Quote However, the study on mice has prompted some countries to revisit their recommendations. Denmark and Hong Kong now instruct providers to pull back the stopper to check for blood before injecting vaccines. Edited October 7, 2021 by Calm 1
JustAnAustralian Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, CelestialSeething said: Love it! You're questioning the CDC. No I'm pointing out the same thing that your second link did. That not everything reported is actually attributable to the vaccine. Unless of course you genuinely think that mRNA vaccines cause old people to get pregnant, and others to get electric shocks or snake bites. Calm noticed the same thing about your second link (this one https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/scary-reports-deaths-following-covid-19-vaccination-arent-what-they-seem) 1 hour ago, Calm said: Why did you post this link? I don't know. It seems to go against their covid19 vaccines will kill us all line of posting. Edited October 7, 2021 by JustAnAustralian 1
Recommended Posts