Still critics showing up at temple open houses?

[Christian Mormon]

I was wondering if I should expect critics to show up at the open house for the Casper Wyoming temple when ithen it gets completed in about 5 years

[Duncan]

We're having ours in just over a month so I will let you know! I was wondering the same thing!

[Anakin7]

Odds are the answer would be a yes unless  a miracle happens and the evangelical house hugs us and says they were/are wrong  in there thinking. 

[HappyJackWagon]

Every time I've been to a temple open house there have been some protesters but they are easy to avoid.

I hope you don't spend too much time worrying about it because every time ( in my experience) has been a non-issue, even though they were present.

[Navidad]

I hear there is a new pair of LDS missionary critics of evangelicalism in our neighborhood. Should I expect them to show up at my house soon, unless a miracle happens and they hug me and tell me I am ok just as I am (an evangelical)?

In other words is it sadly inevitable that both groups, each believing they are doing God's work, will show up here and there to change the other? I have never in my life (72 years) tried to convert an LDS-Christian to be anything other than what he or she is already. I am grateful when my LDS Christian friends in the ward we attend treat us (my wife and I) in the same way. I think we (LDS Christians and non-LDS Christians)  will be just fine when we show up at the judgment seat of Christ just as we are.

I always feel a bit of a relief and contentment when I check out at a Mexican Walmart and the little credit card machine says "Aprobado." That is what I want to hear at the judgment seat of Christ. I wonder what language we will speak and hear in heaven? My Pentecostal friends believe there will be a heavenly language that they speak when  they speak in tongues? I wonder what language was heard at the dedication of the Kirtland temple when the Saints spoke in tongues (glossalalia)? Sorry, I digress. That is simply how my mind works - it is always full of questions.  Peace to you all.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Navidad

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, Christian Mormon said:

I was wondering if I should expect critics to show up at the open house for the Casper Wyoming temple when ithen it gets completed in about 5 years

Probably. We had people from Casper at the dedication for the Billings MT temple years ago. They’ve got some dedicated opposition in that area. 

[Kenngo1969]

29 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I hear there is a new pair of LDS missionary critics of evangelicalism in our neighborhood. Should I expect them to show up at my house soon, unless a miracle happens and they hug me and tell me I am ok just as I am (an evangelical)?

In other words is it sadly inevitable that both groups, each believing they are doing God's work, will show up here and there to change the other? I have never in my life (72 years) tried to convert an LDS-Christian to be anything other than what he or she is already. I am grateful when my LDS Christian friends in the ward we attend treat us (my wife and I) in the same way. I think we (LDS Christians and non-LDS Christians)  will be just fine when we show up at the judgment seat of Christ just as we are.

I always feel a bit of a relief and contentment when I check out at a Mexican Walmart and it the little credit card machine says "Aprobado." That is what I want to hear at the judgment seat of Christ. I wonder what language we will speak and hear in heaven? My Pentecostal friends believe there will be a heavenly language that they speak when  they speak in tongues? I wonder what language was heard at the dedication of the Kirtland temple when the Saints spoke in tongues (glossalalia)? Sorry, I digress. That is simply how my mind works - it is always full of questions.  Peace to you all.

You're as "OK" as you want to be.  If you're content as you are, that's OK by us.  More power to you.  If you feel there might be something missing in your life, perhaps we do have something that can help.  Somehow I doubt that very many missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could be persuaded to show up and actively participate at something like this, My Friend.  Just saying.

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/archive/publications/neighborly-christian-love-or-hate-speech-anti-mormon-protesters

Edited August 30, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[Navidad]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

You're as "OK" as you want to be.  If you're content as you are, that's OK by us.  More power to you.  If you feel there might be something missing in your life, perhaps we do have something that can help.  Somehow I doubt that very many missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could be persuaded to show up and actively participate at something like this, My Friend.  Just saying.

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/archive/publications/neighborly-christian-love-or-hate-speech-anti-mormon-protesters

I am glad they wouldn't and I can assure you that 99.5% of non-LDS Christian evangelicals wouldn't either. And I would guess that 95% of non-LDS Christian fundamentalists wouldn't either, but some might. Generalizing the fringe as the norm is never a good thing, is it? That is like characterizing the Mormon fundamentalist as typical of the LDS church member. Believe me, I have personal knowledge of how sensitive the church is about that!

Actually my wife and I are pretty spiritually content as we are currently attending our little LDS ward. I could always desire a bit more of that hart panting for the waterbooks mentioned in Ps 42:1. I never want to lose my hunger or thirst for more of God. Take care my friend.

[Maestrophil]

Actually - this probably needs it's own thread as I don't want to derail - but I always find talking with these protesters interesting (when they are willing to actually talk civilly).  I always get in a feedback loop with them, because I admit, to their dismay, that it is the Grace of Jesus that saves me and that my works amount to nothing at all in the process, relatively speaking.  So I confirm that they believe that once you have accepted Jesus as your Savior, that you are instantly saved and it can't be taken away - there is no cost or action needed, right?  They say yes.  So I then say "I wholly accept Jesus and that He paid the price to save me and I am saved".  They bristle at that and then say, well that isn't an honest acceptance if you continue to go to the temple, sustain the prophet/Q12 etc.  I then remind them that they said even a murderer who is saved can murder again and still be saved - they reply 'yes' - so I say then why do I need to change my behavior to be saved, but an adulterer, or murderer doesn't.  

They tell me it's not the same because my actions show I am not accepting Jesus.  I say, "and a murderer killing someone shows they accept Jesus?"  And around and around it goes.  Till I say thanks and wish them well, or they start yelling at me, whichever comes first.  😛

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Maestrophil

[Kenngo1969]

41 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I am glad they wouldn't and I can assure you that 99.5% of non-LDS Christian evangelicals wouldn't either. And I would guess that 95% of non-LDS Christian fundamentalists wouldn't either, but some might. Generalizing the fringe as the norm is never a good thing, is it? That is like characterizing the Mormon fundamentalist as typical of the LDS church member. Believe me, I have personal knowledge of how sensitive the church is about that!

Actually my wife and I are pretty spiritually content as we are currently attending our little LDS ward. I could always desire a bit more of that hart panting for the waterbooks mentioned in Ps 42:1. I never want to lose my hunger or thirst for more of God. Take care my friend.

I hope the Lord blesses and keeps you and yours in the hollow of His Hand.  I am honored to know you (from afar: If ever we were to have the opportunity to meet in person, I would be delighted).  I appreciate your presence here and have learned much from you.  I wish you well.

[bOObOO]

3 hours ago, Christian Mormon said:

I was wondering if I should expect critics to show up at the open house for the Casper Wyoming temple when ithen it gets completed in about 5 years

Yes, you should expect critics to show up at such an event.  Please have a lot of gift bags ready, loaded with reading material with which they can become better educated.  A mind is such a terrible thing to waste.

[poptart]

I'm surprised people still bother you guys, every time a temple goes up the suburbs around it seem to have a more wholesome vibe to them.  One of my brothers lives right next to one, his neighborhood is pristine.  If I had to deal with one of these idiots giving you guys a hard time I'd ask what he/she is doing to make the community better?  What are they contributing?  

[Navidad]

3 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

Till I say thanks and wish them well, or they start yelling at me, whichever comes first.  😛

 

Talk to me here and now. I am an evangelical. I won't yell at you. I hate to ruin your paradigm, but I am here. Available and willing!

[Navidad]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

I'm surprised people still bother you guys, every time a temple goes up the suburbs around it seem to have a more wholesome vibe to them.  One of my brothers lives right next to one, his neighborhood is pristine.  If I had to deal with one of these idiots giving you guys a hard time I'd ask what he/she is doing to make the community better?  What are they contributing?  

My guess is they are contributing a lot. Why don't you simply ask them?

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, bOObOO said:

with which they can become better educated.  A mind is such a terrible thing to waste.

Sigh!

[poptart]

9 minutes ago, Navidad said:

My guess is they are contributing a lot. Why don't you simply ask them?

Ask who?

[Navidad]

One or several of those "idiots" you mentioned. You just characterized human beings as idiots. I figured for you to do so, you must know them rather well.

[JAHS]

16 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

Actually - this probably needs it's own thread as I don't want to derail - but I always find talking with these protesters interesting (when they are willing to actually talk civilly).  I always get in a feedback loop with them, because I admit, to their dismay, that it is the Grace of Jesus that saves me and that my works amount to nothing at all in the process, relatively speaking.  So I confirm that they believe that once you have accepted Jesus as your Savior, that you are instantly saved and it can't be taken away - there is no cost or action needed, right?  They say yes.  So I then say "I wholly accept Jesus and that He paid the price to save me and I am saved".  They bristle at that and then say, well that isn't an honest acceptance if you continue to go to the temple, sustain the prophet/Q12 etc.  I then remind them that they said even a murderer who is saved can murder again and still be saved - they reply 'yes' - so I say then why do I need to change my behavior to be saved, but an adulterer, or murderer doesn't.  

They tell me it's not the same because my actions show I am not accepting Jesus.  I say, "and a murderer killing someone shows they accept Jesus?"  And around and around it goes.  Till I say thanks and wish them well, or they start yelling at me, whichever comes first.  😛

 

 

I also like to add the scripture where Jesus said "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matt 24)
How can you know you have been saved until you have endured to the end?

[poptart]

5 hours ago, Navidad said:

One or several of those "idiots" you mentioned. You just characterized human beings as idiots. I figured for you to do so, you must know them rather well.

Way I see it, someone who would go to an open house that the LDS church was kind enough to open to the public just to run their mouths off qualifies as an idiot.  The LDS church pours a lot of time, money and good craftsmanship into their work, especially their temples.  Their communities tend to be fairly pristine, compared to the American average they have fairly sound families and unlike most privileged suburbanites when their kids are of age many serve missions and contribute while their similar aged peers are off at uni, getting high out of their minds and blowing mommy and daddies money.  Lets take a look at say, a lot of Evangelicals, Baptists etc.  Their divorce rate is sky high, they helped bring the blight of the moral majority on the land and while they run their mouths off about the LDS being deceived from the beginning they ignore their own history.  The Southern Baptists were fans of the Klan and while they like to point the finger at the likes of the Catholic church they ignore their own shortcomings.  

Since it sounds like you want to open a can of worms, here you go.

20 years, 700 victims: Southern Baptist sexual abuse spreads as leaders resist reforms - Houston Chronicle

Now we know why the SBC hasn’t acted more on sexual abuse – Baptist News Global

It sure isn't latter day saints who treat the least of these as poorly as many "People of Faith" in other parts of the country do.  We have at least a few people here who sure aren't fans of how uncharitable people in the South tend to be towards the least of these.  Even Muslims as of late have done  more charity during disasters than the Evangelical right and a lot of Baptists have done.  My guess is they've done a lot more than is advertised, a very Christian thing to do.  I believe Jesus had something to say about that as well.

Take heed that ye do not your alms before

men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have

no reward of your Father which is in heaven.  

Matthew 6:1

Hurricane Harvey: Mosques open doors to victims of devastating flooding in Houston | The Independent | The Independent

‘Helping is a total no-brainer.’ Houston-area mosques open their doors as shelters - The Washington Post

Joel Osteen Defends Not Opening Lakewood Church in Houston to Harvey Victims (nbcnews.com)

Meanwhile their lot continues to run their mouth off and cry foul when it's thrown back in their face.  Gee, sounds not only idiotic but kinda stupid.  I mean, you can train an animal to do or not do something, considering these people consider themselves to be at the top of Gods creation I'd say it's pretty sad they can't figure out something so simple as consequences.  Will say, it does provide me with a fantastic source of free entertainment.  Also, considering the current climate, I like to defer to wiser men than me in this case one of the best Doctors of the Church.

Edited August 31, 2021 by poptart

[Maestrophil]

15 hours ago, Navidad said:

Talk to me here and now. I am an evangelical. I won't yell at you. I hate to ruin your paradigm, but I am here. Available and willing!

Navidad - As I mentioned, I hope I am not throwing a wrench in the OP's thread - but I welcome hearing more.  I also definitely am not trying to imply by my paraphrased amalgamation of my previous encounters with evangelical protesters that I have some kind of 'magic bullet' of superior knowledge to them or imply any superiority on my part.  Rather, I never seem to get to a point where I get satisfactory answers that I can understand on a logical level.

Please help me see how I can better understand the evangelical view of how I can't be saved by Jesus within the framework of the LDS faith (assuming that is your position).  I promise my only questions will be to clarify and understand and not to argue.  🙂  I always fee if I can understand truly where someone comes from, even if I don't agree, it makes me a more well-rounded, kinder person.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Maestrophil

[bOObOO]

16 hours ago, Navidad said:

My guess is they are contributing a lot. Why don't you simply ask them?

Because the focus at the dedication of a temple of God should be on what God has done and will be doing as we do our bit to help him with his work.  Not on those who would rather criticize what they don't like when attending a temple open house,

 

[Navidad]

25 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

Navidad - As I mentioned, I hope I am not throwing a wrench in the OP's thread - but I welcome hearing more.  I also definitely am not trying to imply by my paraphrased amalgamation of my previous encounters with evangelical protesters that I have some kind of 'magic bullet' of superior knowledge to them or imply any superiority on my part.  Rather, I never seem to get to a point where I get satisfactory answers that I can understand on a logical level.

Please help me see how I can better understand the evangelical view of how I can't be saved by Jesus within the framework of the LDS faith (assuming that is your position).  I promise my only questions will be to clarify and understand and not to argue.  🙂  I always fee if I can understand truly where someone comes from, even if I don't agree, it makes me a more well-rounded, kinder person.

Thanks for your kind reply. You are incorrect in your assumption about my position. In my four years on this forum I have never wavered from saying over and over that I believe my LDS-Christian friends are completely and totally Christians, in need of no teaching, learning, or help from non-LDS Christians. It is all about the atonement. Everything else, on both sides is an appendage. I believe those non-LDS Christians of any and all persuasions who deny that are mistaken, perhaps sincerely, but still mistaken. It matters not which faith community they belong to; they are mistaken.

Now having said that, in full disclosure I must also acknowledge that I believe that my LDS Christian friends who do not believe that non-LDS Christians are anything but fully and completely a Christian {salvation and able to fare well regarding eternal life (with Christ and the Father)on judgment day} are incorrect as well. Fully and completely a Christian means that neither LDS Christians nor non-LDS Christians require anything from the other - not in this life or the next.  I believe both may be fully indwelt by the Holy Spirit with no help from the other via any ordinance(s). I wish for the day when my LDS friends would seek to better understand and know my non-LDS friends and vice versa. Neither seem real interested in spending time getting to know the other better. Both seem content to settle for caricatures, stereotypes, broad generalizations, and apriori doctrinal assumptions as excuses to keep from getting closer. Everyone is missing out on so much wonderful fellowship. Thanks again for allowing me to share my thoughts with you.

[bOObOO]

1 minute ago, Navidad said:

Thanks for your kind reply. You are incorrect in your assumption about my position. In my four years on this forum I have never wavered from saying over and over that I believe my LDS-Christian friends are completely and totally Christians, in need of no teaching, learning, or help from non-LDS Christians. It is all about the atonement. Everything else, on both sides is an appendage. I believe those non-LDS Christians of any and all persuasions who deny that are mistaken, perhaps sincerely, but still mistaken. It matters not which faith community they belong to; they are mistaken.

Now having said that, in full disclosure I must also acknowledge that I believe that my LDS Christian friends who do not believe that non-LDS Christians are anything but fully and completely a Christian {salvation and able to fare well regarding eternal life (with Christ and the Father)on judgment day} are incorrect as well. Fully and completely a Christian means that neither LDS Christians nor non-LDS Christians require anything from the other - not in this life or the next.  I believe both may be fully indwelt by the Holy Spirit with no help from the other via any ordinance(s). I wish for the day when my LDS friends would seek to better understand and know my non-LDS friends and vice versa. Neither seem real interested in spending time getting to know the other better. Both seem content to settle for caricatures, stereotypes, broad generalizations, and apriori doctrinal assumptions as excuses to keep from getting closer. Everyone is missing out on so much wonderful fellowship. Thanks again for allowing me to share my thoughts with you.

Not a problem.  I just hope you understand we believe you are wrong about a lot of things you believe, and that we are willing to help you to know which of your beliefs are wrong.  Otherwise we believe you will likely retain your false beliefs.

[Navidad]

1 hour ago, bOObOO said:

Not a problem.  I just hope you understand we believe you are wrong about a lot of things you believe, and that we are willing to help you to know which of your beliefs are wrong.  Otherwise we believe you will likely retain your false beliefs.

Here we go again! Seven you's in two sentences! Wow!

[Maestrophil]

2 hours ago, Navidad said:

Thanks for your kind reply. You are incorrect in your assumption about my position. In my four years on this forum I have never wavered from saying over and over that I believe my LDS-Christian friends are completely and totally Christians, in need of no teaching, learning, or help from non-LDS Christians. It is all about the atonement. Everything else, on both sides is an appendage. I believe those non-LDS Christians of any and all persuasions who deny that are mistaken, perhaps sincerely, but still mistaken. It matters not which faith community they belong to; they are mistaken.

Now having said that, in full disclosure I must also acknowledge that I believe that my LDS Christian friends who do not believe that non-LDS Christians are anything but fully and completely a Christian {salvation and able to fare well regarding eternal life (with Christ and the Father)on judgment day} are incorrect as well. Fully and completely a Christian means that neither LDS Christians nor non-LDS Christians require anything from the other - not in this life or the next.  I believe both may be fully indwelt by the Holy Spirit with no help from the other via any ordinance(s). I wish for the day when my LDS friends would seek to better understand and know my non-LDS friends and vice versa. Neither seem real interested in spending time getting to know the other better. Both seem content to settle for caricatures, stereotypes, broad generalizations, and apriori doctrinal assumptions as excuses to keep from getting closer. Everyone is missing out on so much wonderful fellowship. Thanks again for allowing me to share my thoughts with you.

Navidad.  Thank you for sharing your beliefs and testimony.  Very refreshing and different from my other encounters with evangelicals.  And while some LDS may disagree with you, my personal feeling is that you and I are very much on the same page for the most part.  

I believe that all Christian denominations are part of the Body of Christ and that the fruits of the Spirit and the Atonement are available to all who turn to Jesus.  I acknowledge that our differences likely will come from the LDS doctrinal view of degrees of glory in heaven and who will attain to the highest of those.  While I, as a Latter-day Saint believe that before final judgement, all must make certain covenants with God through ordinances to attain that highest level (this is likely where our major difference lies), I also believe that all will have a chance to receive these ordinances or reject them from a God who is the only one fit to judge and is full of mercy.  I also believe that the majority of God's children will receive glory in a heavenly home regardless of denomination, thanks to the merits of Christ.  In this life, I don't believe the ordinances received make anyone any more righteous or worthy than any other believer.  We are all travelers towards our Heavenly home, albeit in different vehicles.  

Edited August 31, 2021 by Maestrophil
Spelling and clarification