Still critics showing up at temple open houses?

[bOObOO]

9 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Here we go again! Seven you's in two sentences! Wow!

So you, whoops there is that word again, don't like to see the word you, whoops there it is again, in any sentences others write to you, whoops there it is again, or to other people?  Would you, whoops, say that is one of your (does this count?) pet peeves?

I think that is a bad idea and feel no need to comply with your or anyone's idea that i should not ever use the word you in a sentence.  In fact I will now consider it a challenge to top my record of 7 you's in two sentences.  Maybe even seventy times seven.

Whenever I am in the mood to do that.

[Navidad]

41 minutes ago, bOObOO said:

So you, whoops there is that word again, don't like to see the word you, whoops there it is again, in any sentences others write to you, whoops there it is again, or to other people?  Would you, whoops, say that is one of your (does this count?) pet peeves?

I think that is a bad idea and feel no need to comply with your or anyone's idea that i should not ever use the word you in a sentence.  In fact I will now consider it a challenge to top my record of 7 you's in two sentences.  Maybe even seventy times seven.

Whenever I am in the mood to do that.

I am teasing about the use of the word "you" even though communication gurus have long held that the overuse of the second person singular can damage conversations. It is a pet peeve of mine. I acknowledge that! I am always interested to hear about what you believe. I have been focused on studying LDS history since 1989. I am especially interested in how the religious history of a group impacts its doctrine and in some cases vice versa. I also really enjoy reading sociological works on the Saints. I think Armand Mauss had great insights. Over the years I have had many friends in the church history department and in MHA. So I really do have a significant interest and have some wonderful interactions with many folks, including those in the fundamentalist communities here in Mexico. Best to YOU!

[Navidad]

Back to the thread. I have often visited Temple Square and wished that I could run into some protesters who would most likely be from the fundamentalist rather than the evangelical community. I thought it would be fun to open a dialogue with them to see first hand how they handle themselves. Alas, I had no luck. I have had a zillion conversations with evangelical friends about the LDS church. They have normally been very curious about what I have had to say. Most acknowledge their lack of knowledge other than what they have read in a few books or seen online. I think many folks are anti about what they know little about. I wish there was a way to fill in that gap. I think it starts by working on their beliefs about LDS church members and beliefs, not by belittling their beliefs about their own faith.  As most of you here know, I also think it would help for my LDS friends to be a bit more interested and willing to learn about Evangelicalism, since that is the word most often misused in conversations about non-LDS Christians.

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 8/31/2021 at 4:31 AM, Christian Mormon said:

I was wondering if I should expect critics to show up at the open house for the Casper Wyoming temple when ithen it gets completed in about 5 years

I certainly hope so! I learnt to love critics as a missionary. We had a senior couple in our mission who had previously served at the Hill Cumorah Visitors Centre. They said that a local 'anti' would sit on a chair across the street from the driveway most days, handing out his photocopied tracts. They could always tell which days he wasn't there because visitors would have fewer questions and less interest. He went missing for an entire week once, and when he came back, they asked if he had been sick. No, he explained. He'd just run out of money for photocopies and had to wait for some donations to his 'ministry' to come in. They let him know that if that ever happened again, he was welcome to come inside and use the Church's photocopier for free!

In my third area, things were really flat. Then one P-day I picked up a copy of the local newspaper in the laundromat and learnt from a large advert that a couple engaged in a 'counter-cult' ministry had just moved to the area and were available to provide information about, amongst other things, 'the evils of Mormonism'. I said to my companion, whom I was training, 'Things are about to pick up for us', and they certainly did. Interest in our message increased, and over the next two months, we baptised a young couple (both Coast Guard officers) with 2.5 children (they now have 7, one of them named after me!) and a single mum with a son old enough to be baptised (a choice he later made).

I also remember 'street' preaching one morning in a busy subway station in the centre of our headquarters city. No one had any time for us until a Protestant gentleman who was also in the station handing out tracts started shouting at us from across the platform. Somehow being labelled 'sons of Satan' drew the attention of commuters, and in about ten minutes, we had distributed every copy of the Book of Mormon we had with us. Street preaching in busy public squares on weekend evenings was often the same. No one would listen to us until someone started heckling.

So yeah, vocal, visible critics are an important part of the work, from my experience.

[Bernard Gui]

On 8/30/2021 at 3:29 PM, Navidad said:

I hear there is a new pair of LDS missionary critics of evangelicalism in our neighborhood. Should I expect them to show up at my house soon, unless a miracle happens and they hug me and tell me I am ok just as I am (an evangelical)?

In other words is it sadly inevitable that both groups, each believing they are doing God's work, will show up here and there to change the other? I have never in my life (72 years) tried to convert an LDS-Christian to be anything other than what he or she is already. I am grateful when my LDS Christian friends in the ward we attend treat us (my wife and I) in the same way. I think we (LDS Christians and non-LDS Christians)  will be just fine when we show up at the judgment seat of Christ just as we are.

I always feel a bit of a relief and contentment when I check out at a Mexican Walmart and the little credit card machine says "Aprobado." That is what I want to hear at the judgment seat of Christ. I wonder what language we will speak and hear in heaven? My Pentecostal friends believe there will be a heavenly language that they speak when  they speak in tongues? I wonder what language was heard at the dedication of the Kirtland temple when the Saints spoke in tongues (glossalalia)? Sorry, I digress. That is simply how my mind works - it is always full of questions.  Peace to you all.

We will probably be able to understand one another. See 3 Nephi 31:3

Quote

For the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto men according to their language, unto their understanding.

 

[Bernard Gui]

17 hours ago, Navidad said:

Back to the thread. I have often visited Temple Square and wished that I could run into some protesters who would most likely be from the fundamentalist rather than the evangelical community. I thought it would be fun to open a dialogue with them to see first hand how they handle themselves. Alas, I had no luck. I have had a zillion conversations with evangelical friends about the LDS church. They have normally been very curious about what I have had to say. Most acknowledge their lack of knowledge other than what they have read in a few books or seen online. I think many folks are anti about what they know little about. I wish there was a way to fill in that gap. I think it starts by working on their beliefs about LDS church members and beliefs, not by belittling their beliefs about their own faith.  As most of you here know, I also think it would help for my LDS friends to be a bit more interested and willing to learn about Evangelicalism, since that is the word most often misused in conversations about non-LDS Christians.

Once we went to the Manti pageant where we were confronted by busloads of anti-Mormon protestors. They all wore the same Mission to Mormons t-shirts. The Manti Institute had set up a small bleacher next to their building as a place for them to address interested people, but they preferred personal confrontation. I observed their tactics. They would corner single or small groups of young adults and started bombarding them with “gotcha” questions.

An older lady named Eadie (sp?) approached me. She was an ex-Mormon who had met Jesus in person in the desert outside Taos, NM. He told her the Mormons were wrong. She asked me, “Would it shock you to know there have been more than 5000 changes in the Book of Mormon?” I said, “No. Would it shock you to know there have been many more thousands of changes in the Bible?” At this point she gave some sort of signal and a gentleman in the t-shirt came over. Turns out he was Timothy Oliver, a person of some consequence, of the Watchman Fellowship. He took over for a while. We exchanged some questions and answers and e-mail addresses. Later we  had a brief e-mail correspondence.

This experience inspired me to create a fictional character named S. Heber Young, a Mormon zealot who travelled around the country organizing protests at Evangelical weddings, Passion plays, and church services, reversing some their tactics on them, but always with good humor. 

I was also around when Sonia Johnson and Ed Decker were doing their thing in Washington and at the Seattle temple. They were not pleasant people. 
 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Chum]

On 8/30/2021 at 3:29 PM, Navidad said:

In other words is it sadly inevitable that both groups, each believing they are doing God's work, will show up here and there to change the other?

You seem to be equating two groups, when only one is following a doctrine to demean and degrade the faith of the other. This isn't a reasonable representation to me.

[Bernard Gui]

On 8/31/2021 at 10:26 AM, poptart said:

We have at least a few people here who sure aren't fans of how uncharitable people in the South tend to be towards the least of these. 

Ever lived in Washington or Oregon? A close relative who used to be a homeless vet said the best place to be a homeless vet was in the South and the worst place was in the Northwest. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Chum]

On 8/30/2021 at 3:29 PM, Navidad said:

I hear there is a new pair of LDS missionary critics of evangelicalism in our neighborhood. Should I expect them to show up at my house soon, unless a miracle happens and they hug me and tell me I am ok just as I am (an evangelical)?

In other words is it sadly inevitable that both groups, each believing they are doing God's work, will show up here and there to change the other? I have never in my life (72 years) tried to convert an LDS-Christian to be anything other than what he or she is already. I am grateful when my LDS Christian friends in the ward we attend treat us (my wife and I) in the same way. I think we (LDS Christians and non-LDS Christians)  will be just fine when we show up at the judgment seat of Christ just as we are.

So a bit of background. I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school. I've spent years worshiping with a Methodist congregation. Was born again and spent years with a worshiping w/ Evangelicals from Baptist/Fundamentalist/AoG churches. Years later, I was baptized into the Church.

Of that Christian set, only Evangelicals actively taught me doctrines of disdain for other faiths and held classes of how to attack other Christians for their beliefs. I'm old enough to remember Catholics being a (waning) target but we were mostly taught hostility toward the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists and Church members. I've read syllabus from Theological institutions that conducted classes in attacking faiths as part of their degrees. My brother attended anti-faith classes at his Wesleyan college.

There were multi-million dollar anti-faith industries led by guys like Walter Martin, Hank Hanegraaff, Bill Keller and Johnny Lee Clary. The latter was a former Grand Wizard who, after being born again, switched from attacking Black Australians to attacking folks of other faiths - because some skills are universal.

It is true that most Christian faiths have some anti-faith history or (at least) have had members who attack other faiths (plenty of anti-Muslim Church members sprung up after 9/11 taught them the existence is Islam). However, while most of those faiths were growing beyond their toxic religious bigotry, Evangelicalism widely embraced and nurtured it.

To clarify, the above time line extends up until about the Mitt Romney nomination. Religious bigots had brought their hostility into full sunlight, where it didn't receive the welcome they had hoped. Bill Keller was an especially useful idiot in exposing this dark part of Evangelicalism. Post-Romney, Evangelical bigotry seemed much more muted.

I was hoping the last decade brought some reformation and a turning away from attacking other faiths but if Temple protests are still a thing, that doesn't seem likely.

[Chum]

40 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Ever lived in Washington or Oregon? A close relative who used to be a homeless vet said the best place to be a homeless vet was in the South and the worst place was in the Northwest. 

Maybe. I could see that for vets in W.Cent.FL, as the VA here is the gold standard of care. It's as good as it gets. I've heard lesser things about the VA in other parts of the state but don't have any direct exp.

For non-vet homeless folks, southern states tend to be hostile toward folks in need; FL is overtly so.

[Navidad]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

I was also around when Sonia Johnson and Ed Decker were doing their thing in Washington and at the Seattle temple. They were not pleasant people. 
 

I have my own Sonia Johnson stories - Housewife to Heretic! Because of her, in a round-about manner I was give a full set of Apostle Whitney's history of Utah. It is one of my prize possessions. The engraved plates are wonderful.

[Navidad]

18 minutes ago, Chum said:

So a bit of background. I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school. I've spent years worshiping with a Methodist congregation. Was born again and spent years with a worshiping w/ Evangelicals from Baptist/Fundamentalist/AoG churches. Years later, I was baptized into the Church.

Of that Christian set, only Evangelicals actively taught me doctrines of disdain for other faiths and held classes of how to attack other Christians for their beliefs. I'm old enough to remember Catholics being a (waning) target but we were mostly taught hostility toward the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists and Church members. I've read syllabus from Theological institutions that conducted classes in attacking faiths as part of their degrees. My brother attended anti-faith classes at his Wesleyan college.

There were multi-million dollar anti-faith industries led by guys like Walter Martin, Hank Hanegraaff, Bill Keller and Johnny Lee Clary. The latter was a former Grand Wizard who, after being born again, switched from attacking Black Australians to attacking folks of other faiths - because some skills are universal.

It is true that most Christian faiths have some anti-faith history or (at least) have had members who attack other faiths (plenty of anti-Muslim Church members sprung up after 9/11 taught them the existence is Islam). However, while most of those faiths were growing beyond their toxic religious bigotry, Evangelicalism widely embraced and nurtured it.

To clarify, the above time line extends up until about the Mitt Romney nomination. Religious bigots had brought their hostility into full sunlight, where it didn't receive the welcome they had hoped. Bill Keller was an especially useful idiot in exposing this dark part of Evangelicalism. Post-Romney, Evangelical bigotry seemed much more muted.

I was hoping the last decade brought some reformation and a turning away from attacking other faiths but if Temple protests are still a thing, that doesn't seem likely.

Thanks for your replies. I wonder if you are using the term evangelical in an overly broad sense? It seems to me that your examples primarily reflect those of the fundamentalist affiliation. I would guess that we have very different definitions of the term evangelical. I am an evangelical, a movement that did not exist prior to the late forties and early fifties. I went to an evangelical college, two seminaries and a graduate school where I was never taught any anti-cult teachings. I have heard some of those who you named and can assure you they are not evangelicals in the sense that I use the word. CS Lewis was an evangelical writer and commentator. John RW Stott was an evangelical Anglican leader. Martin Lloyd Jones, Harold Ockenga, Richard Mouw, F. F. Bruce, Bruce Metzger, etc. were/are all significant evangelical leaders. I never heard or read anything by any of them disparage members of the LDS church. None of the folks you mentioned are evangelicals. They may have claimed evangelicalism, but I assure you they were/are fundamentalists.

I would suggest there is as much difference between an evangelical and a fundamentalist as there is between a member of the LDS Church and one of the Mormon fundamentalist groups. Even the Mormon fundamentalist groups then have their own fringes, diversity and hyper-fundamentalism. I have interviewed some of them and let me tell you something, they are pretty anti-LDS themselves. They share many common roots with the LDS folks, especially in our area. They aren't anti-Mormon, but they sure are anti-LDS. My observation is that is changing a bit in recent years, however.

The LeBarons of LeBaron Colony, Chihuahua today bear little semblance to the LeBarons of the 50s - 80s. So it is with non-LDS Christians. I remember when Donald Grey Barnhouse (a good friend of my father) shared about scolding Walter Martin for his strident attitude against certain groups. I know for a fact that in his later years he was not in solidarity with evangelical communities. Barnhouse was a pivotal figure in the transition movement from fundamentalism to evangelicalism within the non-LDS community. He successfully made the transition, my father did as well, others did not. To offer you a word of encouragement, I think the fundamentalist community is softening. But every mass movement in history has its fringes. Take care.

[Chum]

1 minute ago, Navidad said:

I wonder if you are using the term evangelical in an overly broad sense?

It is possible but what would follow is a long discussion on who is an Evangelical. I would offer that for each person who follows bigotous practices there are many, many more in the faith who condone their actions. Together, they are the group in focus here. It isn't tiny.

6 minutes ago, Navidad said:

It seems to me that your examples primarily reflect those of the fundamentalist affiliation.

At one time I agreed but after long consideration I realized that Evangelicalism is the group that best contains the whole. For example, I have found that anti-faith preachers ID as evangelical more than any other faith.

9 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I went to an evangelical college, two seminaries and a graduate school where I was never taught any anti-cult teachings. I have heard some of those who you named and can assure you they are not evangelicals in the sense that I use the word.

I accept this and believe you. However, your choice of cult to label other Christian faiths packs some pretty strong, derogatory signalling. It sounds like you took on some anti-faith vibes somewhere along the line. 

16 minutes ago, Navidad said:

John RW Stott was an evangelical Anglican leader. Martin Lloyd Jones, Harold Ockenga, Richard Mouw, F. F. Bruce, Bruce Metzger, etc. were/are all significant evangelical leaders. I never heard or read anything by any of them disparage members of the LDS church

I trust your assessment here. Would you say that they not disparage any other faiths or was LDS one faith that was off their radar? My other Qs are: Did they condone bashing other faiths? Did they speak out against it?

20 minutes ago, Navidad said:

None of the folks you mentioned are evangelicals. They may have claimed evangelicalism, but I assure you they were/are fundamentalists.

Insisting that certain people aren't [faith] is right out of the anti-faith playbook. It's use is dividing unliked people into groups that are easier to disparage. In good conscience, I can't accept it as evidence.

22 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I would suggest there is as much difference between an evangelical and a fundamentalist as there is between a member of the LDS Church and one of the Mormon fundamentalist groups.

I find this assertion sound and flawed and irrelevant. You're overarching point that many fundamentalists adopt doctrines that don't fit well in mainstream evangelicalism is reasonable.

I feel is it flawed because it doesn't translate well to the Church - because as a hierarchical church with officiating leadership, it has the sole authority to declare who is and isn't a member of the Church. One Evangelical can insist someone else isn't Evangelical but without a central authority on Earth, there is no power to make that declaration. I don't see this as a flaw, just a nature of religious structures.

However, I feel it's irrelevant because anti-faith teachings were absolutely practiced and condoned in Evangelical congregations. If you'd like to take this position - that unrepentantly demeaning other faiths discredits one from being Evangelical - I'd be interested in hearing that.

49 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I remember when Donald Grey Barnhouse (a good friend of my father) shared about scolding Walter Martin for his strident attitude against certain groups. I know for a fact that in his later years he was not in solidarity with evangelical communities. Barnhouse was a pivotal figure in the transition movement from fundamentalism to evangelicalism within the non-LDS community.

This I find very interesting. I've long credited Barnhouse with being the inspiration for Martin to weaponize the word cult, into a tool to stir up powerful animosity toward other faiths. Are you aware of any transcripts of Barnhouse speaking out against attacks on other faiths?

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Navidad said:

I wonder if you are using the term evangelical in an overly broad sense? It seems to me that your examples primarily reflect those of the fundamentalist affiliation. I would guess that we have very different definitions of the term evangelical. I am an evangelical, a movement that did not exist prior to the late forties and early fifties. I went to an evangelical college, two seminaries and a graduate school where I was never taught any anti-cult teachings. I have heard some of those who you named and can assure you they are not evangelicals in the sense that I use the word. CS Lewis was an evangelical writer and commentator. John RW Stott was an evangelical Anglican leader. Martin Lloyd Jones, Harold Ockenga, Richard Mouw, F. F. Bruce, Bruce Metzger, etc. were/are all significant evangelical leaders. I never heard or read anything by any of them disparage members of the LDS church. None of the folks you mentioned are evangelicals. They may have claimed evangelicalism, but I assure you they were/are fundamentalists.

There are many Protestant anti-LDS groups just as there are many Protestant churches, but which are legitimately called Evangelical? Are you saying that they are not Evangelical because they don’t fit your definition? (I understand there is Evangelical and there is evangelical.) 

For example, I attended a particularly virulent anti-LDS lecture at a large popular Lutheran Church in Rockford IL. The guest was some sort of anti-cult expert who specialized in the LDS cult.  His was a big name, but I can’t recall it. I do remember that he wore cowboy boots and had a leather belt with a big silver buckle and used slides on an overhead projector. I came to understand how such things can escalate into violence. He established that Joseph Smith was a deceiver, the Book of Mormon was of the devil, and the Church was dangerous. The fellow I was with agreed with me that the atmosphere was such that we didn’t want to be identified as LDS. A stake presidency member in attendance who was a highly respected educator was told to sit down and shut up when he asked to respond during the Q&A. The funniest part was when the expert told of sitting in the Mormon General Conference when the vaunted Apostle LeGrande Richards was speaking. He said he heard Elder Richards quoting a Bible passage, but when he realized it directly contradicted the LDS doctrine about which he was preaching, he hung his head, stopped speaking, and slunk back to his chair. 😂 He lied! That never happened. 

Just some of the other run-ins I have had with such folks…

The local Ex-Mormons for Jesus leader falsely accused me (their bishop) of neglecting his aged parents and that was one of the reasons he left the Church. 

One of our sons was targeted for rescue by the local “Four Square” church.  The youth pastor and some youth came to the home to talk with him.

The YoungLife club compiled a list of LDS students in our high school and prayed for them daily at the flagpole.

A girl who was dating another of our sons was invited to attend a rally at a popular local Christian church where the Ed Decker’s  Ex-Mormons for Jesus folks were giving a series of classes debunking Mormonism. She went with our son to see The Godmakers. As a result she was baptized LDS and has been a faithful member for over 30 years.

After a local church gave some anti-LDS presentations to their youth, I received a letter from one my orchestra students citing some of the bad stuff we believed and asking me how I could be so stupid as to be a Mormon. I graded the letter with a red pencil and sent it to her parents. She dropped out of orchestra.

At a school parent conference, I was conversing with a mom and dad. We discovered our families had a shared interest in Scouting...we both had Eagle Scouts in our families. Their son’s troop was sponsored by another popular Lutheran church. When they learned that our troop was LDS sponsored, the ice wall went up and the conversation was ended.

A pastor for a popular “non-denominational Bible believing church” who was also a substitute music teacher would regularly call out LDS students in classes and berate them.
 

…of course I realize these do not reflect on Evangelical Protestantism as a whole. 

 

 

[Chum]

5 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

There are many Protestant anti-LDS groups just as there are many Protestant churches, but which are legitimately called Evangelical? Are you saying that they are not Evangelical because they don’t fit your definition? (I understand there is Evangelical and there is evangelical.) 

My experience is that those who embrace a doctrine of bashing other faiths - they ID as Evangelical more than any other stripe of Christianity. I've seen some notable hostility from Lutherans, which I didn't expect. 

I'm not particularly attached to the using the term evangelical, to group religious bigots. I use it because it aligns with my own history but I'm open to whatever.

[Chum]

17 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I realize these do not reflect on Evangelical Protestantism as a whole. 

I'm not sure this is true. In my view, it depends on not only how many folks participate in attacks on other faiths but on how many condone and otherwise support it.

I also think the faithful who refuse to speak against religious bigotry in their faith are a factor but that's getting into the weeds a bit. And to be clear, I've known plenty of Church members who glommed on hard to Muslim bigotry after 9/11. I did for a bit until I realized I was exactly the same as those who attacked me for my faith.

[secondclasscitizen]

It would be interesting to get that group of 40 ish girls and women to show up with their signs stating which wife of Joseph smith they are along with age and who else they are married to to show up. 
 

the interesting part would be to see how many parents whisk their kids away from them while telling them Joseph smith didn’t have a bunch of wives. I’m betting most would do that. 

[pogi]

On 8/30/2021 at 12:48 PM, Anakin7 said:

Odds are the answer would be a yes unless  a miracle happens and the evangelical house hugs us and says they were/are wrong  in there thinking. 

At least one fat lady has sung:

Quote

 

Regarding the subject of Christian anti-Mormonism, Richard Mouw (President of the Fuller Theological Seminary) stated in 2004 at the Salt Lake Tabernacle in Salt Lake City,

I am now convinced that we ... have often seriously misrepresented the beliefs and practices of the Mormon community. Indeed, let me state it bluntly to the LDS folks here this evening: we have sinned against you. The God of the Scriptures makes it clear that it is a terrible thing to bear false witness against our neighbors, and we have been guilty of that sort of transgression in things we have said about you. We have told you what you believe without making a sincere effort first of all to ask you what you believe...Indeed, we have even on occasion demonized you, weaving conspiracy theories about what the LDS community is 'really' trying to accomplish in the world

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Mormonism

 

 

[rongo]

8 minutes ago, pogi said:

At least one fat lady has sung:

It seems to me that "Mormons aren't Christian!" energy has really waned over the last decade (I think its high water mark was the 80s and 90s and early 2000s). Most evangelical Protestants don't really feel like protesting Mormon events, in my experience. I think all conservative religious groups see the bigger threat as secularism, skepticism, and apathy/failure to launch among their youth --- much more so than the dreaded Mormon Menace. 

[Chum]

If our focus is on Christian Groups attacking our faith and not Christian Groups attacking numerous faiths, we won't accomplish much of value.

[Navidad]

To answer some of your questions - This chart shows the denominations that belong to the NAE - the National Association of Evangelicals - usually considered the parent community of Evangelicals in the United States. These denominations have voluntarily identified themselves as want to be considered Evangelical with a capital E. Over 45,000 individual churches who may or may not belong to these denominations have also chosen to affiliate with NAE. I am trying to find a list of schools, colleges, and universities who have also affiliated with NAE, but I am not having any luck. Individuals may also join the organization as well. Hopefully you will find this list of denominations interesting. I can only say that I am unaware of any LDS bashing going on in denominations affiliated with this group. NAE is much more oriented towards positive interfaith interactions, tolerance, etc. Anyway here is the list. If a group is on this list, you can assume they are Evangelical.

[poptart]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Ever lived in Washington or Oregon? A close relative who used to be a homeless vet said the best place to be a homeless vet was in the South and the worst place was in the Northwest. 

Yep, 3 or so years.  I kept to the LGBT and Asian areas, people in Tacoma and depending on where in Seattle really sucked.  Thing is, support for the poor, LGBTQ and poc was fantastic.  Spent some time in the South as a child, plenty of Baptiats who resented my mom for not being Caucasian and saying we were poor because their version of God hated us.  From what I've seen of current events, looks like the bigotry and hatred of the poor is worse.

[Navidad]

5 hours ago, Chum said:

You seem to be equating two groups, when only one is following a doctrine to demean and degrade the faith of the other. This isn't a reasonable representation to me.

Belittling the other, even to the point of the identification of the other as being in the service of Lucifer has been for too long characteristic of both groups under discussion. There are many examples of both, is there not? I know fundamentalists who have taught that LDS doctrine is of Satan; surely many thousands of LDS folks were taught about the sectarian pastor and his affiliation with Satan. I believe this tendency is happily lessening on both sides. I would love to see it disappear entirely from the dialogue, preaching, and teaching of both LDS and non-LDS Christians. I think that would please the Lord.

[Navidad]

36 minutes ago, rongo said:

It seems to me that "Mormons aren't Christian!" energy has really waned over the last decade (I think its high water mark was the 80s and 90s and early 2000s). Most evangelical Protestants don't really feel like protesting Mormon events, in my experience. I think all conservative religious groups see the bigger threat as secularism, skepticism, and apathy/failure to launch among their youth --- much more so than the dreaded Mormon Menace. 

I couldn't agree more. I wish it would disappear entirely.

 

[Navidad]

50 minutes ago, pogi said:

At least one fat lady has sung:

 

Indeed, and Richard Mouw has been a significant leader of the Evangelicals for many years. He even preached once in the tabernacle. Good for him. I got to sit in the choir loft, sing Come Come Ye Saints and listen to a talk by Rick Turley about the history of the tabernacle. He even pointed out that Dwight Moody, the great fundamentalist evangelist (there were no Evangelicals as a group back then) preached there twice and that of the 6,000 in attendance there wasn't a dry eye in the place. I loved that story!