Your luxury spiritual trip…er…journey with a Shipibo

[Bernard Gui]

What do you think of spiritual highs induced by psychedelic mushroom?

 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-19/all-inclusive-magic-mushroom-ayahuasca-retreats-are-new-luxury-trips

Quote

Bigham’s experience is becoming more and more common as a new breed of retreat is offering not only the lush surroundings, pleasant accommodations, and well-prepared food of high-end vacations but also the spiritual healing and metaphysical self-discovery of guided, plant-based psychedelic experiences. Colloquially they’re called trips, though most practitioners prefer the term “journey.”

…She was drawn to its nightly ceremonies, during which participants take psilocybin mushrooms and, led by local Rastafarians, embark on a series of transcendental journeys that might include visions and an altered emotional state…

…The main event of the itinerary [Costa Rica], which ranges from 5 to 12 nights, isn’t a boozy luau or snorkeling excursion but an ayahuasca ceremony led by native Shipibo healers.…

[Rastas and Shipibos? Bob Marley has left the building.]
[The Shipibo-Conibo live in the 21st century while keeping one foot in the past, spanning millennia in the Amazonian rainforest. Many of their traditions are still practiced, such as ayahuasca medicine work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipibo-Conibo ]

 

 

Quote

In Vancouver, the Journeymen Collective focuses on imparting spiritual well-being into the corporate world. Their guided mushroom ceremonies—in which 2 to 5 grams of psychoactive fungi are blended with gourmet chocolate—are held at local lodgings and aimed at helping business leaders and executive teams align their companies with a greater purpose.

Gary Logan founded the Journeymen Collective in 2018 with his husband, Robert Grover, and says their goal is to make guests feel taken care of. “We want to cradle you, nurture you, and guide you through this process,” he says. “We want people to relax and rest into the medicine, not worry if there’s a tarantula on their face.”

[O Canada…Where pines and maples grow…]

Quote

…Soltara may lack the five-star indulgences of, say, Utah’s decadent Amangiri resort…

[https://www.aman.com/resorts/amangiri]

Extending over 25,000 square feet of the desert, the Aman Spa looks out over the tranquillity of America’s Canyon Country. As well as Aman Spa Signature therapies and journeys, Amangiri’s expert therapists offer treatments shaped by the healing traditions of the Navajo, drawing on the elements of earth, wind, fire and water. 

[Yáʼátʼééh In Our Lovely Deseret…]

Quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca People who have consumed ayahuasca report having mystical experiences and spiritual revelations regarding their purpose on earth, the true nature of the universe and deep insight into how to be the best person they possibly can.This is viewed by many as a spiritual awakening and what is often described as a near death experience or rebirth. It is often reported that individuals feel they gain access to higher spiritual dimensions and make contact with various spiritual or extra-dimensional beings who can act as guides or healers

Werrrry eenterestink…New luxury trips indeed.

Rastas, Shipibos, Navajos? Can someone say “cultural appropriation”?

[Tacenda]

I watched a Netflix doc about mushrooms that included psilocybin for spiritual experiences. And the great health benefits as well. I particularly liked how doing these sessions can help someone with alcoholism, or mental conditions such as post traumatic syndrome, that can be cleared up with just a couple or even one visit. 

I hope this can be the wave of the future for mental health care. And think that mushrooms were ingested in Bible times, and can explain talking donkey's and many other strange things. And believe that those that lived in Joseph Smith's time used them to get spiritual experiences and maybe even him, since in his area there were plenty of mushrooms. 

The Netflix is very well worth it to watch, it make me wonder if God intended for us to use it, believe it or not. Just like other herbs for our health. 

"Fantastic Fungi" is the name of the Netflix documentary. 

PS: In a former ward years ago, there was this couple that would go and hunt for different varieties of mushrooms. She was older back then and I remember seeing her a few short years ago out on the golf course just as young as ever. So who knows. 

[bOObOO]

45 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I watched a Netflix doc about mushrooms that included psilocybin for spiritual experiences. And the great health benefits as well. I particularly liked how doing these sessions can help someone with alcoholism, or mental conditions such as post traumatic syndrome, that can be cleared up with just a couple or even one visit. 

I believe there is a good use for all kinds of plants and vegetables, including mushrooms.  I just wouldn't want to pay a lot of money for them, and fortunately most are inexpensive. 

45 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I hope this can be the wave of the future for mental health care. And think that mushrooms were ingested in Bible times, and can explain talking donkey's and many other strange things.

No, Balaam had a special burro, or some version of one.  Much like Mr. Ed, a talking horse.  And snakes can talk, too.  And dogs, like Lassie.  A person just needs the ability to know what they are saying.

45 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

And believe that those that lived in Joseph Smith's time used them to get spiritual experiences and maybe even him, since in his area there were plenty of mushrooms. 

I am open to that possibility.

[pogi]

Psiloscybin has long intrigued me. 

Some may judge it to be a counterfeit spiritualism, but if it leads to enduring good fruit and positive life changes and improved relationship with God and others, can it really be said to be counterfeit? 

I could see it being a problem if it replaced other forms of spirituality and brotherly love/charity and faith, but it seems to do the opposite - it seems to enhance, or is a catalyst to, more spirituality, love, and compassion in every day life. 

The word of wisdom (which doesn't actually mention psychedelics or illicit drugs) and the expectation to obey the law of the land, seem to be the only religious hold-backs to freely exploring spiritually with psiloscybin.  My question is, before the word of wisdom became a commandment with the additions of illicit drug use, and if the drug was not illegal, was there any religious proscription for its use in scripture or otherwise?  Could people freely explore, without sin, before the mid 19th century? 

The first hand accounts are intriguing:

Quote

 

But what was most interesting and compelling to me when we first started this work was that in most volunteers, psilocybin produced large increases on self-rated questionnaires designed to measure naturally occurring mystical-type and insightful-type experiences. And what I should say is we, in effect, did a much more rigorous and controlled systematic replication of Walter Pahnke's Good Friday Experiment, showing that most of our volunteers showed these kinds of effects.

The core features, this sense of unity, the interconnectedness of all people and things, all as one pure consciousness, this can be an introverted or extroverted type of unity. And that's accompanied by a sense of sacredness or reverence or preciousness for the experience. There's a noetic quality, a sense of encountering ultimate reality, that people feel these experiences are more real and more true than everyday waking consciousness.

There's deeply felt positive mood, sometimes the experience is universal love, joy, peace. Transcendence of time and space, where past and future collapse into the present moment. And the other component is these experiences are felt to be ineffable. One of the first things that people say at the end of the session is I can't possibly put that experience into words.

So here is a volunteer's written description of an experiment, of an experience. This was done either in the evening of the experience or the morning, but prior to meeting with the guides. And what I've done is highlighted the features that Stace calls out as being definitive of the experience.

So he says, "In my mind's eye, I felt myself instinctively taking on a posture of prayer in my head. I was on my knees, hands clasped in front of me, and I bowed to this force. I wasn't scared or threatened in any way.

It was more about reverence. I was showing my respect. I was humbled and honored to be in this presence. This presence was a feeling, not something I saw or heard, I only felt it. But it felt more real than any reality I've ever experienced.

And it was a familiar place too, one I had felt before. It was when I surrendered to this that I felt like I let go. I was gone, or should I say, this earthly part of me was. I was still on the couch, in some sort of suspended animation, awaiting my return.

I was in the void. This void had a strange and indescribable quality to it, that there was nothing to it but this feeling of unconditional and undying love. It felt like my soul was basking in the feeling of this space. I have no idea how long this lasted. Time and space did not exist there. It was all different manifestations of this love feeling I found myself wrapped in."

So here's a month after high-dose sessions. And we have about 80% of people saying that this experience is among the five most personally meaningful experiences of their lives. Another 80%, five most spiritually significant experiences of their life. When asked what this means, they'll say, well this is comparable in personal meaning to me as the birth of my first-born child or the death of a parent.

Respondents endorse large significant increases in positive changes in moods, attitudes about life and self, behavior, social effects, and spirituality. And they attribute these changes to the session experience. And then, remarkably, these effects are sustained through at least 14 months and in many, many cases, years later.

And they're also confirmed by ratings by friends, family members, and colleagues, work colleagues, that make of the participant's behavior. So this isn't just the participant's self-perceived changes. These changes are reflected by ratings done by we call them community observers. And we've shown that across a number of studies.

So this just provides a finer-grained sense of what people are endorsing. And this is positive attitudes about life. What's shown here graphically is that this is increasing as a function of dose, on the left, here. And here's what people are endorsing. They're endorsing increased life appreciation, gratitude, enthusiasm, meaning, richness, joy, optimism, dynamic quality, and positive life values.

This is the positive social effects that sometimes we call altruistic or pro-social. Again, dose-related increases. This is at six months in a different study. Increased positive relationships, tolerance toward others, love toward others, empathy, compassion, concern for vulnerable people.

And here's increased spirituality. And again, illustrated by increases in sense of reverence, a sense of the preciousness of life, the frequency of profound sacred experiences, the belief in some form of continuance after death, the sense that all life is interconnected, and an emotional bond with all of humanity.

Atheists. So one of the interesting questions here was among those who identified as atheists before the encounter. And perhaps not surprisingly, the rate of identification of atheists was much higher in the psilocybin group than in the non-drug group. However, after the encounter, the majority of these atheists in both groups no longer identified as atheist. So 57% and 67%, respectively.

 

An effective cure for atheism it seems!  How bad could it be?

Edited August 20, 2021 by pogi

[bOObOO]

17 minutes ago, pogi said:

Psiloscybin has long intrigued me. 

Some may judge it to be a counterfeit spiritualism, but if it leads to enduring good fruit and positive life changes and improved relationship with God and others, can it really be said to be counterfeit? 

I could see it being a problem if it replaced other forms of spirituality and brotherly love/charity and faith, but it seems to do the opposite - it seems to enhance, or is a catalyst to, more spirituality, love, and compassion in every day life. 

The word of wisdom (which doesn't actually mention psychedelics or illicit drugs) and the expectation to obey the law of the land, seem to be the only religious hold-backs to freely exploring spiritually with psiloscybin.  My question is, before the word of wisdom became a commandment with the additions of illicit drug use, and if the drug was not illegal, was there any religious proscription for its use in scripture or otherwise?  Could people freely explore, without sin, before the mid 19th century? 

The first hand accounts are intriguing:

An effective cure for atheism it seems!  How bad could it be?

I would be dubious about succumbing to this, from your quote:   It was when I surrendered to this that I felt like I let go. I was gone, or should I say, this earthly part of me was. I was still on the couch, in some sort of suspended animation, awaiting my return.

Could have been what some refer to as a near death experience.  I would prefer to be more aware of myself and surroundings while remaining conscious, but I suppose it might be worth the risk.  Joseph Smith talked about how weak he felt after his First Vision but at least he was aware that he was in the presence of God the Father and Son.  I don't know if he remained conscious or not.

Edited August 20, 2021 by bOObOO

[MiserereNobis]

Smac started a thread somewhat about this awhile back. I added my experiences with psychedelics, especially with peyote in the Native American Church, and how that eventually led me to Christ:

 

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/73557-ex-mormons-on-shrooms/

[pogi]

29 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Smac started a thread somewhat about this awhile back. I added my experiences with psychedelics, especially with peyote in the Native American Church, and how that eventually led me to Christ:

 

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/73557-ex-mormons-on-shrooms/

How do you view the use of psychedelics now?  Is it something that you use still on occasion, or would you be open to using again, or do you look at it more as a seed to something better? Does Catholicism take a stance on their use?   

[echelon]

Having been taught that there are substances which can take away from our spirituality, I often think it reasonable that there would also be substances to increase spirituality.  I just never had the courage to experiment on it.

[Chum]

Folks in the PTSD community are more than a little interested in the therapeutic prospects of psilocybin, ketamine, mdma and other chems.

The DEA is finally losing some power over substances and we can finally do some responsible research into these uniquely promising compounds. There's a lot of hope that this trend continues and - that we learn how mind-boggling stupid it was to have an LEO agency set medical policy for an entire nation.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Chum said:

.............................

The DEA is finally losing some power over substances and we can finally do some responsible research into these uniquely promising compounds. There's a lot of hope that this trend continues and - that we learn how mind-boggling stupid it was to have an LEO agency set medical policy for an entire nation.

Yes, and the Sackler family and their associates want blanket immunity from prosecution for murdering hundreds of thousands Americans by deliberately pushing opioids as safe.  The DEA did nothing to stop that.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I watched a Netflix doc about mushrooms that included psilocybin for spiritual experiences. And the great health benefits as well. I particularly liked how doing these sessions can help someone with alcoholism, or mental conditions such as post traumatic syndrome, that can be cleared up with just a couple or even one visit. 

I hope this can be the wave of the future for mental health care. And think that mushrooms were ingested in Bible times, and can explain talking donkey's and many other strange things. And believe that those that lived in Joseph Smith's time used them to get spiritual experiences and maybe even him, since in his area there were plenty of mushrooms. 

The Netflix is very well worth it to watch, it make me wonder if God intended for us to use it, believe it or not. Just like other herbs for our health. 

"Fantastic Fungi" is the name of the Netflix documentary. .........................

John M. Allegro, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross: A Study of the Nature and Origins of Christianity Within the Fertility Cults of the Ancient Near East  (1970):

Quote

... he interprets the fresco of the Plaincourault Chapel to be an accurate depiction of the ritual ingestion of Amanita muscaria as the Eucharist. Allegro argued that Jesus never existed as a historical figure and was a mythological creation of early Christians under the influence of psychoactive mushroom extracts such as psilocybin.[1] ** * *

The book has been described as "notorious" and as "one of the strangest books ever published on the subject of religion and pharmacology".[4] There was a media frenzy when it was published in 1970. This caused the publisher to apologize for issuing it and forced Allegro's resignation from his university position.[1][5] Judith Anne Brown suggested that the book was "difficult to read and difficult to summarize, because he follows clues that criss-cross different cultures and lead into many-layered webs of association".[5] Mark Hall writes that Allegro suggested the scrolls all but proved that a historical Jesus never existed.[6] Philip Jenkins writes that Allegro was an eccentric scholar who relied on texts that did not exist in quite the form he was citing them, and calls the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross "possibly the single most ludicrous book on Jesus scholarship by a qualified academic".[7]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Mushroom_and_the_Cross .

Jordan Peterson, on the other hand, does not find it necessary to ingest shrooms in order to choke and tear up when discussing the historical Jesus as "too terrifying a reality to fully believe"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZvjZoqhiuw .

Edited August 20, 2021 by Robert F. Smith

[ttribe]

Ketamine can be extremely helpful with depression, especially in acute circumstances.

[OGHoosier]

There may well be a very decent use for these plants, and though it seems strange, when I look at it from a different angle it makes sense that our embodied minds would be susceptible to alterations that make it more sensitive to spiritual influences. 

I'm still pretty cautious about these though until more research is done. 

[strappinglad]

So, was the veil put over our memories  like a fog inducing drug , and these mushrooms etc. can clear away that fog at least temporarily ?

[OGHoosier]

3 hours ago, strappinglad said:

So, was the veil put over our memories  like a fog inducing drug , and these mushrooms etc. can clear away that fog at least temporarily ?

Perhaps. For my part I think that since we are embodied beings our brains have to be involved when we're interacting with the Spirit. Perhaps some of these mushrooms interact with the mechanisms that are in play when we interact with the Spirit or other forces from beyond the veil. 

[MiserereNobis]

On 8/20/2021 at 12:26 PM, pogi said:

How do you view the use of psychedelics now?  Is it something that you use still on occasion, or would you be open to using again, or do you look at it more as a seed to something better? Does Catholicism take a stance on their use?   

Hi Pogi,

I know this is from a month back, but I never got back to you. I do not use psychedelics now and haven't since I stopped associating with the Native American Church and began exploring Catholicism and converted (about 15 years ago). Like you say, in my experience it was a seed to something better. It helped me be open to mystical experience, which allowed me to ultimately find God.

I don't personally know any traditional Catholics who are using psychedelics. I seriously doubt if there are any.

I don't think I'd ever use them again spiritually. They served their purpose and my relationship to God doesn't need them anymore. I feel like using them spiritually at this time would just be an excuse to use them recreationally.