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The new jerusalem in jackson county, missouri ?


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I was born and raised in Independence, Missouri so I will go on record now as saying wholeheartedly that ..YES! I believe the New Jerusalem will be located in Jackson County, Mo.   Recently I have come across some members of the Church who espouse a view that the Saints failed in their efforts to establish that back in the day and so now they are of the notion that perhaps Salt Lake City, Utah will be the New Jerusalem spoken of by the Lord in the Doctrine and Covenants.

So my question for my esteemed and well versed Brothers and Sisters on this board....what do you believe?  Jackson County or Salt Lake City, Utah?

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1 minute ago, randy said:

I was born and raised in Independence, Missouri so I will go on record now as saying wholeheartedly that ..YES! I believe the New Jerusalem will be located in Jackson County, Mo.   Recently I have come across some members of the Church who espouse a view that the Saints failed in their efforts to establish that back in the day and so now they are of the notion that perhaps Salt Lake City, Utah will be the New Jerusalem spoken of by the Lord in the Doctrine and Covenants.

So my question for my esteemed and well versed Brothers and Sisters on this board....what do you believe?  Jackson County or Salt Lake City, Utah?

I’ve never heard of anyone who thought SLC would be the New Jerusalem. Interesting that you have. 

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13 minutes ago, randy said:

Jackson County or Salt Lake City, Utah?

I remember when I was young figuring out the shortest distance from my house to Jackson county, you know, back in the day when we used maps and Google wasnt around to tell you in 2 seconds. I don't think it's in Utah, I think the Brethren are going to go with stay where you're at and help everyone in your community. The church is to global now. That's why they're building so many temples possibly.

Edited by AtlanticMike
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13 minutes ago, randy said:

Recently I have come across some members of the Church who espouse a view that the Saints failed in their efforts to establish that back in the day and so now they are of the notion that perhaps Salt Lake City, Utah will be the New Jerusalem spoken of by the Lord in the Doctrine and Covenants.

These members espousing such opinions wouldn't happen to be Utah natives would they?

 

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16 minutes ago, randy said:

I was born and raised in Independence, Missouri so I will go on record now as saying wholeheartedly that ..YES! I believe the New Jerusalem will be located in Jackson County, Mo.   Recently I have come across some members of the Church who espouse a view that the Saints failed in their efforts to establish that back in the day and so now they are of the notion that perhaps Salt Lake City, Utah will be the New Jerusalem spoken of by the Lord in the Doctrine and Covenants.

So my question for my esteemed and well versed Brothers and Sisters on this board....what do you believe?  Jackson County or Salt Lake City, Utah?

I wholeheartedly agree with you about the location of the New Jerusalem. Those who contradict that are wresting doctrine. 
 

I think, though, that Jackson County is a man-made boundary to which we need not bind ourselves. Adam-Ondi-Ahman is not in Jackson County, yet I believe that will be part of the New Jerusalem. 

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5 minutes ago, Amulek said:

These members espousing such opinions wouldn't happen to be Utah natives would they?

 

Please don’t cast aspersions on native Utahns. I’m one, and I don’t hold that opinion, nor does any Utah native I know. 

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9 minutes ago, Amulek said:

These members espousing such opinions wouldn't happen to be Utah natives would they?

 

They are...but I agree with Scott that we should not cast aspersions on them.    I was stationed at Hill AFB back in the day...and I had the usual good natured discussions with Ward Members about the New Jerusalem, Indep.Missouri Temple/Complex and all things Jackson County.  Until recently I was never aware that such a notion existed.    One of the points made by one individual was that in Article of Faith #10 it simply states that "Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent".   His position is that since AoF #10 was edited to include (the New Jerusalem) that would have been the perfect time to affirm and include "Jackson County" so as to read " Zion (the New Jerusalem located in Jackson County Missouri) will be built upon the American continent."

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32 minutes ago, randy said:

I was born and raised in Independence, Missouri so I will go on record now as saying wholeheartedly that ..YES! I believe the New Jerusalem will be located in Jackson County, Mo.   Recently I have come across some members of the Church who espouse a view that the Saints failed in their efforts to establish that back in the day and so now they are of the notion that perhaps Salt Lake City, Utah will be the New Jerusalem spoken of by the Lord in the Doctrine and Covenants.

So my question for my esteemed and well versed Brothers and Sisters on this board....what do you believe?  Jackson County or Salt Lake City, Utah?

Check the CFM lesson and links on this subject: the New Jerusalem, like "Israel" and "Zion" can refer to a number of concepts including the original attempt to establish it in MO. One conceptualization is that it is the same Zion (see AoF 10) and that it will be built on the American continent.

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16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I wholeheartedly agree with you about the location of the New Jerusalem. Those who contradict that are wresting doctrine. 
 

I think, though, that Jackson County is a man-made boundary to which we need not bind ourselves. Adam-Ondi-Ahman is not in Jackson County, yet I believe that will be part of the New Jerusalem. 

Yes...I agree totally about not being tied to any man-made boundary regarding Jackson County.  

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34 minutes ago, randy said:

I was born and raised in Independence, Missouri so I will go on record now as saying wholeheartedly that ..YES! I believe the New Jerusalem will be located in Jackson County, Mo.   Recently I have come across some members of the Church who espouse a view that the Saints failed in their efforts to establish that back in the day and so now they are of the notion that perhaps Salt Lake City, Utah will be the New Jerusalem spoken of by the Lord in the Doctrine and Covenants.

So my question for my esteemed and well versed Brothers and Sisters on this board....what do you believe?  Jackson County or Salt Lake City, Utah?

I have a crazy question. I heard a while back from a couple new guys in the ward that somewhere near jackson county the church has started laying the groundwork for neighborhoods including sewer and water, anything up there like this happening? Probably not I guess, same guys told me that the  canneries will be shutting down anytime because we were a year or two away from the second coming,  this was like 10 or 12 years ago.

 

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3 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Check the CFM lesson and links on this subject: the New Jerusalem, like "Israel" and "Zion" can refer to a number of concepts including the original attempt to establish it in MO. One conceptualization is that it is the same Zion (see AoF 10) and that it will be built on the American continent.

Being a Zion people,  Zion is anywhere where the Pure in Heart dwell are concepts I agree with.  But the location of the Center Stake of Zion being in Indep. Mo, the spot of the Indep. Missouri Temple having been specified in scripture, which has not been rescinded by the Lord.  I am not aware of any statements from a President of the Church that in any way hints that what the Lord declared in the Doctrines and Covenants regarding the New Jerusalem in Jackson County, the Temple and Temple complex in Indep. Missouri, the Far West Temple being built, the future events to be had at Adam-ondi-Ahman...will not come to pass.  My study has reaffirmed just the opposite.

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10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

If God decided to move it it was probably because of all the meth.

We do have some work to do in that area....sad to say

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8 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I have a crazy question. I heard a while back from a couple new guys in the ward that somewhere near jackson county the church has started laying the groundwork for neighborhoods including sewer and water, anything up there like this happening? Probably not I guess, same guys told me that the  canneries will be shutting down anytime because we were a year or two away from the second coming,  this was like 10 or 12 years ago.

 

I have not heard anything regarding laying ground work for neighborhoods etc.  I do know the Church, as it has for decades, is always looking to purchase land and other properties in Jackson County.  I do know that there are always talks being had at various levels of leadership between the LDS and CoC regarding possible purchases etc.    But, the work and progress in Indep. Missouri is just quietly and steadily rolling along!

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56 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I’ve never heard of anyone who thought SLC would be the New Jerusalem. Interesting that you have. 

It caught me off guard a bit i must say....

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7 minutes ago, randy said:

We do have some work to do in that area....sad to say

No worries. I take prescription amphetamines. It has been said that methamphetamines is the meth of amphetamines so it is the stuff that messes with you. I mean, look at how deranged I am and extrapolate.

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2 minutes ago, randy said:

I have not heard anything regarding laying ground work for neighborhoods etc.  I do know the Church, as it has for decades, is always looking to purchase land and other properties in Jackson County.  I do know that there are always talks being had at various levels of leadership between the LDS and CoC regarding possible purchases etc.    But, the work and progress in Indep. Missouri is just quietly and steadily rolling along!

Missionaries that serve in the mission sign agreements that they will not purchase any land in the area while on their mission. At least they did a few years ago.

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5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No worries. I take prescription amphetamines. It has been said that methamphetamines is the meth of amphetamines so it is the stuff that messes with you. I mean, look at how deranged I am and extrapolate.

I must confess...i don't post much, but I come here almost everyday and read of all the "comings and goings", but over all these years I have really come to appreciate your...hmmm, how can I say this?  Your somewhat twisted and demented sense of humor!  You have made me chucke out loud more times than I can remember...so thank you for that!

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9 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Missionaries that serve in the mission sign agreements that they will not purchase any land in the area while on their mission. At least they did a few years ago.

You my good friend are a certified goofball!

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41 minutes ago, randy said:

They are...but I agree with Scott that we should not cast aspersions on them.    I was stationed at Hill AFB back in the day...and I had the usual good natured discussions with Ward Members about the New Jerusalem, Indep.Missouri Temple/Complex and all things Jackson County.  Until recently I was never aware that such a notion existed.    One of the points made by one individual was that in Article of Faith #10 it simply states that "Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent".   His position is that since AoF #10 was edited to include (the New Jerusalem) that would have been the perfect time to affirm and include "Jackson County" so as to read " Zion (the New Jerusalem located in Jackson County Missouri) will be built upon the American continent."

I knew a family in Kansas who moved to Utah to live in what they saw as a Zion community (I don’t know how long they lasted, the community was just getting started and unless they had some very wealthy sponsor, not sure how it was going to survive).  Wasn’t a United Order community, sounded more based on political ideas to me than economic.  Really wish I remembered the name of it (this was back late 80s).  I remember thinking why move back to Utah to prepare for the second coming when you are down the block so to speak where you are.  Unfortunately I don’t remember asking, so I don’t know if they thought SLC would be the center of things. 

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19 minutes ago, randy said:

Your somewhat twisted and demented sense of humor!

I agree! He cracks me up sometimes.

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Rumors among some of the Pacific Islanders living in our area are that a number of folks from there are moving to Jackson County for this reason. Who knows?

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1 hour ago, randy said:

Being a Zion people,  Zion is anywhere where the Pure in Heart dwell are concepts I agree with.  But the location of the Center Stake of Zion being in Indep. Mo, the spot of the Indep. Missouri Temple having been specified in scripture, which has not been rescinded by the Lord.  I am not aware of any statements from a President of the Church that in any way hints that what the Lord declared in the Doctrines and Covenants regarding the New Jerusalem in Jackson County, the Temple and Temple complex in Indep. Missouri, the Far West Temple being built, the future events to be had at Adam-ondi-Ahman...will not come to pass.  My study has reaffirmed just the opposite.

This is one of the concepts I was referring to, which obviously is not "just the opposite."

This is a fairly comprehensive article on the subject, but note the section title, "An Unfolding Understanding" here: https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/zion-new-jerusalem?lang=eng and in another article, "Conclusion" here: https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/revelations-in-context/the-center-place?lang=eng

See also: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/topic/zion , https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/topic/new-jerusalem 

The "center place" could end up anywhere, figuratively or literally, including quite possibly Jackson County, Missouri. The concept of "the temple" can also have many meanings and intersects with "Israel," "Zion" and the "New Jerusalem." It is interesting to me that the New Jerusalem is equally an inheritance for the righteous of all nations, not just the Jews of the literal seed of Abraham or Israel.

And since you mentioned it, D&C 105 could be viewed as a rescission of sorts. I haven't a problem with that. I just keep my eye on where the scriptures sand the living prophets align.

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Definitely Jackson county.  After it's wiped clean.

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