Jump to content

The new jerusalem in jackson county, missouri ?


Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, longview said:

Don't know if it is speculation or what but I have heard it said that when the City of Enoch was taken up into Heaven, it left an enormous void where the Gulf of Mexico is.  And it is prophesied that the city will return.  Would that fit the bill?

 

https://juvenileinstructor.org/enoch-and-zion/
 

Quote

In his journal, early Mormon apostle Wilford Woodruff recounted “the opinion of the Prophet Joseph” that “when the City of Enoch fled & was translated it was whare the gulf of Mexico now is. It left that gulf a body of water.”

 

Link to post
14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This is a good article, one I’ve used in the past to dispel the false notions of the entire Church having to walk en masse to Missouri. 
 

I have my own theory as to why this originated. Many of the early Saints verily believed that the Second Coming would transpire within their lifetime. Had that happened, the entire Church, such as it was, could probably have fit easily within the confines of Jackson County. 
 

And what would have been the means of overland travel then? Pretty much what they were when the Pioneer Saints came to the Salt Lake Valley. 
 

So even though these myths strike us as silly today when we think even a moment about them, they probably seemed much more plausible in the early days of the Church and got handed down from generation to generation without ever being seriously scrutinized. 

Absolutely. The same with the timing of the Second Coming (it was reasonable to hold to the understanding that it would happen then -- until D&C 130:7 clarified it -- and then years 1900, 2000 and so on). I can relate to them completely, when I joined the Church in 1975 as a college student, I assumed the Second Coming would be around the year 2000, and that Jackson County MO would replace SLC for Church / Millennium Headquarters.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
20 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

image.png.b5a3afc3c6c3980a0419207063c21bcc.png

Hi Ken.  If this photo is some kind of meme, then I do not understand it.  Could you enlighten me, please?  :friends:

Link to post
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, longview said:

Hi Ken.  If this photo is some kind of meme, then I do not understand it.  Could you enlighten me, please?  :friends:

I think it’s from the movie “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure,” which highlighted the overuse of “excellent” among some young people at the time. Kenngo is probably poking fun at your descriptor in “very excellent link.”

 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
20 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think it’s from the movie “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure,” which highlighted the overuse of “excellent” among some young people at the time. Kenngo is probably poking fun at your descriptor in “very excellent link.”

If overuse is what you're after ...
 

 

Link to post
Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think it’s from the movie “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure,” which highlighted the overuse of “excellent” among some young people at the time. Kenngo is probably poking fun at your descriptor in “very excellent link.”

 

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

If overuse is what you're after ...
 

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

If overuse is what you're after ...
 

 

 

Oh?  I shoulda used the spread fingers emoticon!    

Edited by longview
Link to post
15 minutes ago, longview said:

Oh?  I shoulda used the spread fingers emoticon!    

I don’t know the meaning of the spread fingers. I suppose it’s because I never saw the movie. 
 

Incidentally, I’ll risk driving poor Seeking Understanding into apoplexy by raising the question of whether “very excellent” is redundant. Wouldn’t the word “excellent” by definition obviate the need for the adverb “very”?

I’m not correcting you, just wondering for future reference. 

Link to post
4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I don’t know the meaning of the spread fingers. I suppose it’s because I never saw the movie. 
 

Incidentally, I’ll risk driving poor Seeking Understanding into apoplexy by raising the question of whether “very excellent” is redundant. Wouldn’t the word “excellent” by definition obviate the need for the adverb “very”?

I’m not correcting you, just wondering for future reference. 

True, it should be "most excellent".

Link to post
50 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

That does sound more like what I’m used to. 

Doesn't the redundancy make you fly to pieces?

Link to post
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, longview said:

Doesn't the redundancy make you fly to pieces?

No. 

“Most excellent” has long been a standard idiom in English. “Very excellent” not so much. 
 

Added later: FYI, I found this on the Internet:

https://www.quora.com/Is-most-excellent-grammatically-correct
 

It sustains my impression and reasoning about “very excellent” although frequency of use has made me more comfortable with “most excellent.”

Excellent is an adjective, so if you are going to use it in the superlative - most excellent, it should be followed by a noun. “The most excellent movie I’ve ever seen.”

Now, at one time the word “most” would sometimes be used not to form a superlative but rather as a qualifying adverb as in, “He was most helpful,” meaning, he was very helpful. I

However, “excellent” is a sort of adjective that cannot be qualified nor superlative. If something is excellent, it is better than the rest - it excels. So, technically, one thing cannot be more excellent than another thing - it cannot excel more than another thing. Both may excel and one may have excelled beyond the other, but the degree to which they excel must be addressed using other language. Therefore, there really is no appropriate time to use the superlative - most excellent. By the same token, it cannot be “very excellent” or “almost excellent,” etc.

Think of it like making an A+ on a paper. While your writing might be better than that of your friend who also made an A+, your paper does not have a better grade. It isn’t more A+ than your friend’s. You both surpassed the expectations - you both excelled.

Having said that, you will hear people say “It was the most excellent . . . ,” and their listeners will understand the meaning and might not even think it strange.

Edited by Scott Lloyd
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Posted (edited)

The idea that we will go back to Jackson County I think is a Mormon urban legend.  It was born of a desire to regain that which was lost by the early saints.  In BY’s time the saints had to be persuaded to even plant trees bc they thought they would be going back at any time—they did not understand.

There were several ‘center places” throughout church history.  Kirkland, then JC, then Nauvoo and finally SLC.  The church was absolved of making JC THE center place in D&C 124.  read the whole section but specifically v  51 “Therefore, for this cause have I accepted the offerings of those whom I commanded to build up a city and a house unto my name, in Jackson county, Missouri, and were hindered by their enemies, saith the Lord your God.”  JC was simply one of many center places for the church.

Then, there is this: “Joseph continued, “‘It is only a little handful of Priesthood you see here tonight, but this Church will fill North and South America--it will fill the world.’ Among other things he said, ‘It will fill the Rocky Mountains. There will be tens of thousands of Latter-day Saints who will be gathered in the Rocky Mountains, and there they will open the door for the establishing of the Gospel among the Lamanites, who will receive the Gospel and their endowments and the blessings of God. This people will go into the Rocky Mountains; they will there build temples to the Most High. They will raise up a posterity there, and the Latter-day Saints who dwell in these mountains will stand in the flesh until the coming of the Son of Man. The Son of Man will come to them while in the Rocky Mountains.’”14https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/pages/the-tapestry-of-gods-hand?lang=eng

 Bottom line we are not going back.  The infrastructure is in UT.  JC is part of a large metropolitan area today.  What would have to happen to 100’s of thousands of  those people that live there for us to just come in and take over their property, lands and businesses so that we could build a city?  Think about it.

Edited by Durangout
Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...