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Whacky Lawsuit Against the Church Goes Awry


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Posted

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is using my tithing dollars to hire prostitutes?! :o:blink::mega_shok:

I want to intervene in Mr. Brown's lawsuit!

How do I do that? :unknw:   I take it that I'll probably need to file a motion, yes?

Do you suppose Mr. Aldana will help me do that, and do you think it'll fly with the judge hearing Mr. Brown's case? :crazy:

 

Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, smac97 said:

Quoted by Smac:  Medel properly exercised his inherent powers to scuttle an action manifestly predicated on poppycock, she declared—describing the allegations as “absurd and delusional”—and said attorney Francisco Javier Aldana must be penalized for filing a frivolous appeal.

Nice.  While when it gets into more subjective areas, I think extra care should be taken, truly frivolous lawsuits should be fined as taking advantage of a system paid for by others.

This lawyer was taking advantage of a mentally disturbed client, imo.  I am guessing he charged a fee and didn't take it on contingency or whatever it's called where if lose, it is free, split the settlement if win as no lawyer in his right mind would assume there would be a win or even a settlement to make it go away or to help an obvious disturbed individual pay for therapy that would justify his time.

What are the basic fees for filing lawsuits?  I assume it is not completely free, but wondering if it even begins to cover the cost ofeven minimal attention. 

Edited by Calm
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, smac97 said:

Again, I am not discounting all the litigation filed against the Church.

Then what is the point of your OP?

11 hours ago, smac97 said:

Sometimes the Church and/or its agents/representatives errs legally.  When and if that happens, and can be established through evidence and argument, the Church needs to take its legal lumps like anyone else

I agree with this but am curious if you can point out an instance where the Church needed to take its legal lumps? 

11 hours ago, smac97 said:

So I don't begrudge anyone who has a legitimate (or at least colorable) grievance against the Church and avails himself to filing a lawsuit.

Again, would love to have you name a specific example.

11 hours ago, smac97 said:

That said, there are a lot of frivolous lawsuits filed against the Church.

Duh.  Any organization with means is the subject of frequent frivolous lawsuits. Do you think you are actually making an insightful observation here?

11 hours ago, smac97 said:

Those filed by Cook and Gaddy come immediately to mind.  And these are just the recent ones. 

Again, what is your point beyond mere sophistry?

Your OP has no thesis.  You are stating an obvious fact and dressing it up like it is some sort of "hot take."

So the Church is sued by idiots on occasion?  What's your point?  Because it seems like you are employing sophistry to discredit *all* lawsuits against the Church - your disingenuous "aww shucks, the Church should take its lumps just like everyone else" schtick notwithstanding.  

pic unrelated:

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Edited by Michael Sudworth
Posted
16 hours ago, Calm said:

...What are the basic fees for filing lawsuits?  I assume it is not completely free, but wondering if it even begins to cover the cost of even minimal attention. 

https://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/filingfees.pdf

Posted
15 hours ago, Michael Sudworth said:

... what is the point of your OP?

 

15 hours ago, Michael Sudworth said:

... am curious if you can point out an instance where the Church needed to take its legal lumps? 

Again, would love to have you name a specific example.

 

15 hours ago, Michael Sudworth said:

Duh.  Any organization with means is the subject of frequent frivolous lawsuits. Do you think you are actually making an insightful observation here?

 

15 hours ago, Michael Sudworth said:

Again, what is your point beyond mere sophistry?

 

15 hours ago, Michael Sudworth said:

Your OP has no thesis.  You are stating an obvious fact and dressing it up like it is some sort of "hot take."

 

15 hours ago, Michael Sudworth said:

So the Church is sued by idiots on occasion?  What's your point?  Because it seems like you are employing sophistry to discredit *all* lawsuits against the Church - your disingenuous "aww shucks, the Church should take its lumps just like everyone else" schtick notwithstanding.  ...

 

It seems, Mr. Sudworth, that your only point is to come here and lob gratuitous insults at a longtime, highly-respected poster.

Posted
3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

It seems, Mr. Sudworth, that your only point is to come here and lob gratuitous insults at a longtime, highly-respected poster.

Nein.  I am responding to rhetorical sleight of hand.  I think most posters recognize good arguments from simple smoke and mirrors. 

Posted

I would venture to say that 99.99% of these lawsuits are filed on contingency. The idea being that to avoid nuisance and legal expense, the defendant settles without admitting any guilt. The attorney gets a 30% fee or more for very little work, and the plaintiff also gets something. It’s not a lot of money in absolute terms for the lawyer, but it adds up and fills what may otherwise be dead time on his schedule. 
Farmers auto insurance put a lot of ambulance chasers out of business in the early nineties here in CA, by taking to trial every case. It cost a lot of legal fees in the short run, but effectively stopped nuisance suits since the lawyers that did this were now incurring real costs of going to trial. No easy settlements.  I know of at least one attorney that retired early because of this. 
 

The real problem we have with lawsuits in the US, is that the loser does not have to pay the legal costs of the defendants in frivolous suits. Britain, as an example, has loser pays rule, and avoids a lot of stupidity clogging their courts. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Michael Sudworth said:

Nein.  I am responding to rhetorical sleight of hand.  I think most posters recognize good arguments from simple smoke and mirrors. 

Well, so far the count is smac 10– Mike 0.  That seems about right to me.  But no need to worry, posters here are generally kind hearted so probably won’t pile on.  

Posted
2 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

Britain, as an example, has loser pays rule, and avoids a lot of stupidity clogging their courts. 

I wouldn't want this to occur in all cases as it could prevent those without financial backing from being able to take on those who do out of fear they might lose and be financially destroyed, but some penalty for poorly substantiated lawsuits should occur, imo.

Posted
On 5/21/2020 at 11:31 AM, smac97 said:

I am not discounting all the litigation filed against the Church.  Sometimes the Church and/or its agents/representatives errs legally.

 

22 hours ago, Michael Sudworth said:

What's your point?  Because it seems like you are employing sophistry to discredit *all* lawsuits against the Church

 

*snort*

Posted
1 hour ago, Calm said:

That is more than I expected.  Thanks.

When you say "more," are you referring to the cost of filing, or to the amount of information? ;)

Posted

Cost. :)  But now I think of it, wasn't expecting more than a couple of estimates, so the second too.

Posted

Yeah.  I recently filed an action against someone here in Utah.  I went for broke ... literally, in my case, since I no longer have a job ... didn't ask for a specific amount of monetary damages ($360) and requested a jury, even though I can't see wasting a jury's time with it and would be fine with having a judge hear it (but, if I understand the rules correctly, either party can request a jury), which is another $250.  My opponent is judgment proof, which means I'll never see a dime from her, even if I win. :rolleyes:<_< Just for, ummm, fun, here's  Utah's fee schedule.  https://www.utcourts.gov/resources/fees.htm

Posted
11 hours ago, Michael Sudworth said:

Nein.  I am responding to rhetorical sleight of hand.  I think most posters recognize good arguments from simple smoke and mirrors. 

Then why are you still here?

Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 Even people who might disagree with Smac97's views as he has expressed them in this thread would not go so far as to say that he has engaged in "rhetorical sleight of hand" or that he is simply using "smoke and mirrors." 

LOL.  You are busting me up.  Ha. @Robert F. Smith presents arguments.   Smac uses a lot of words that essentially mean nothing.

 

Quote

I strongly suspect that Smac97 will be making substantive, well-reasoned arguments on this Board, on any successors it might have, and perhaps in similar fora long after you, by contrast, have lost interest and have gone the way of the Dodo Bird.

I agree.  I am don't have the stamina to match Smac's nonsense.  He's driven many good posters away through his sophistry by simply wearing them down with Zeezrom-esque language and tricks.

Quote

That's not to say, however, that perfectly valid contrary viewpoints won't exist or that people won't disagree with Smac97.

Most sensible people disagree with Smac's posts on this board.

Quote

But he is possessed of a formidable intellect and excellent reasoning skills

Poppycock, so I am issuing an official CFR.  As I said, @Robert F. Smith and @Kevin Christensen are intellectuals with solid reasoning skills.  Smac is lawyer who uses underhanded and disingenuous rhetoric to win arguments.  Winning arguments does not equal truth; something folks with quality reasoning skills understand.

Quote

so anyone who dismisses him, as you have done on this thread, does so at his own peril.

Peril? LOL

Oh man.... this post made my day

Edited by Michael Sudworth
Posted
7 minutes ago, Michael Sudworth said:

Most sensible people disagree with Smac's posts on this board.

 

What is your list of sensible people?  If you put it up first, then we can poll them to see if they match your assessment. 

Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, bluebell said:

He sounds like the kind of poster where anyone who doesn't agree with him isn't sensible.    

I disagree with @Robert F. Smith about nearly everything.  But he is an honest, sensible intellectual.

I believe @mfbukowski pollutes the Gospel message with his Rorty fetish. But I respect the effort @mfbukowski puts into developing and expressing his arguments.

Smac is Zeezrom.  Fancy words, no substance.

Edited by Michael Sudworth
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