Mark of the Beast

[gopher]

Apparently Satan isn't as cool as some may have thought, at least according to this thrash metal drummer who recovered from Covid-19:

While in the coma, Carroll said he had dreams of visiting the afterlife. He saw himself leave his body and plummet down to hell, where Satan — a woman in his case — punished him for the deadly sin of sloth, morphing him into a Jabba the Hutt-like-monster who vomited blood until he had a heart attack.

“I woke up on the hospital bed with tubes coming in and out of me, and there was a nurse right there and my first words were, ‘Am I still in hell?’ ” Carroll said. “She ignored me.”

Carroll, who celebrated his 47th birthday on Wednesday, May 13, said his near-death experience gave him a new outlook on life. He now plans on living a healthier life without hard alcohol or bong rips, though he’ll still drink the occasional hard cider and narrow his marijuana use to edibles. He also adopted a belief in a higher power; he feels the prayers from his family and friends helped him pull through.

“I’m still going to listen to satanic metal, and I still love Deicide and bands like that,” Carroll said. “As far as for my personal life and my experience of what I went through, I don’t think Satan’s quite as cool as I used to.”

https://datebook.sfchronicle.com/music/for-death-angel-drummer-coming-out-of-coronavirus-coma-was-like-escaping-hell

[The Nehor]

22 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Hi 3DOP,

Sorry, but for some reason I received no notice of your response to my post. Of course there is no evidence of the form of the mark, since Revelation simply does not say, but it does give many other salient criterion. I am just noting that the Hebrew character Tav which means mark had that shape in its original form, and carries that meaning as your own post notes - and the fact of the Catholic rite which uses that shape. I am not saying there is anything pernicious about the mark of the cross itself. However, its receipt does indicate one's allegiance to the teachings of the Catholic Church - which presumably is the purpose of the mark in Revelation as a sign of a covenant. It is much like the inverted pentagram on the SLC temple. Many US citizens now associate that symbol with Satan because satanists adopted the inverted pentagram with a circle as the sign of the goat. However, the inverted pentagram alone has long been a Christian symbol, as is evident in the many Churches of Europe with the pentagram in their stained glass windows, mosaics, etc. It's not the symbol itself that carries the meaning, but the meaning attached to it that carries import. It can be used in different ways.

I would add that the Roman pontiff fulfills all the other prophetic criterion of Revelation at the head of the woman in which he has fooled the entire world - including those fellow LDS who do not support me. It is nothing personal against Catholics at all. Many, many Catholics are fine people, as I know you are. God cares about them. He wants them to come out of the woman, because He loves them. They have just been led astray in their beliefs about Christ, the nature of the Godhead, etc. As a old cliche says... if the shoe fits.

Fooled the entire world? Catholics are only about 15% of the world's population.

I also find it troubling that you ascribe being fooled to everyone who does not agree with you.....wait....are you the AntiChrist?!?!?!

[Ahab]

666 is the sum of the first 36 natural numbers ( i.e. 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + 34 + 35 + 36 = 666), and thus it is a triangular number. Notice that 36 = 15 + 21; 15, 21, and 36 are also triangular numbers; and 152 + 212 = 225 + 441 = 666.

In base 10, 666 is a repdigit (and therefore a palindromic number) and a Smith number. A prime reciprocal magic square based on 1/149 in base 10 has a magic total of 666.

The prime factorization of 666 is 2 • 32 • 37. Also, 666 is the sum of squares of first seven primes: {2^{4}+3^{9}+5^{25}+7^{49}+11^{121}+13^{169}+17^{289}

The Roman numeral for 666, DCLXVI, has exactly one occurrence of all symbols whose value is less than 1000 in decreasing order (D = 500, C = 100, L = 50, X = 10, V = 5, I = 1).

Fascinating, isn't it (the sign of the beast)

[Ahab]

...

Edited May 21, 2020 by Ahab

[RevTestament]

On 5/21/2020 at 10:02 AM, The Nehor said:

Fooled the entire world? Catholics are only about 15% of the world's population.

1.329 billion (2018) (baptized)/7.577 world population = almost 18%  Does not the world  recognize the bishop of Rome? Is he not highly regarded as a world religious leader? Does not the vast majority of Christianity accept the doctrines of the trinity promulgated by the Catholic Church? You don't seem to like my summarization, so I'll leave you with what scripture says regarding the beast. 

 

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was ^acast out, that old serpent, called the ^bDevil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

If this hasn't come to pass, exactly when is it going to come to pass according to The Nehor?

On 5/21/2020 at 10:02 AM, The Nehor said:

I also find it troubling that you ascribe being fooled to everyone who does not agree with you.....wait....are you the AntiChrist?!?!?!

You are of course free to be troubled.... after all you are The Nehor. 

[3DOP]

On 5/20/2020 at 12:10 PM, RevTestament said:

Hi 3DOP,

Sorry, but for some reason I received no notice of your response to my post. Of course there is no evidence of the form of the mark, since Revelation simply does not say, but it does give many other salient criterion. I am just noting that the Hebrew character Tav which means mark had that shape in its original form, and carries that meaning as your own post notes - and the fact of the Catholic rite which uses that shape. I am not saying there is anything pernicious about the mark of the cross itself. However, its receipt does indicate one's allegiance to the teachings of the Catholic Church - which presumably is the purpose of the mark in Revelation as a sign of a covenant. It is much like the inverted pentagram on the SLC temple. Many US citizens now associate that symbol with Satan because satanists adopted the inverted pentagram with a circle as the sign of the goat. However, the inverted pentagram alone has long been a Christian symbol, as is evident in the many Churches of Europe with the pentagram in their stained glass windows, mosaics, etc. It's not the symbol itself that carries the meaning, but the meaning attached to it that carries import. It can be used in different ways.

I would add that the Roman pontiff fulfills all the other prophetic criterion of Revelation at the head of the woman in which he has fooled the entire world - including those fellow LDS who do not support me. It is nothing personal against Catholics at all. Many, many Catholics are fine people, as I know you are. God cares about them. He wants them to come out of the woman, because He loves them. They have just been led astray in their beliefs about Christ, the nature of the Godhead, etc. As a old cliche says... if the shoe fits.

Hi Rev,

I saw your reply and then forgot about it. Sorry. I don't spend as much time here as I once did.

Anyway, I appreciate your concern. If the Catholic Church were not what she claims to be, your analysis seems reasonable enough.

[Tacenda]

I'm sorry to revive this thread, but I'm unable to start new topics. I have a favor, tonight I went to dinner with my husband's brothers and wives for some "therapy", they call it anyway, it got started with just the brothers being able to get things off their chests while caring for their mom each week, haha. Well tonight my sister in law told us we all need to read Elder Vaughn J. Featherstone's letter that was put in the Atlanta temple's cornerstone. I tried to find it on LDS.org where she said to look for it. Instead I saw this article from Mormon Interpreter. https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/vaughn-j-featherstones-atlanta-temple-letter/

Is the letter available somewhere, I cannot locate it in full, only bits of it from the Interpreter folks. I'd like to relieve her of any anxiety she may be feeling if that is what she might be feeling, not sure. 

Any help would be appreciated!!

[Calm]

https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets?id=3438179d-a8c0-499d-a2cc-82d6a239cef7&crate=0&index=4

see if this works for you. 

[Tacenda]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets?id=3438179d-a8c0-499d-a2cc-82d6a239cef7&crate=0&index=4

see if this works for you. 

It worked! I guess there isn't too much in there that I need to worry over for my sis in law. I have very stalwart in laws and love them very much!

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

It worked! I guess there isn't too much in there that I need to worry over for my sis in law. I have very stalwart in laws and love them very much!

If she is concerned with the possibility that it was a prophecy that didn’t come true and that it was seen as an official revelation for some reason , as I have seen some critics stating, the Interpreter article likely covers that iirc (I only skimmed it due to researching it myself previously after getting questions through FM on it, so may be confusing content of that article with other stuff I found). 

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

If she is concerned with the possibility that it was a prophecy that didn’t come true and that it was seen as an official revelation for some reason , as I have seen some critics stating, the Interpreter article likely covers that iirc (I only skimmed it due to researching it myself previously after getting questions through FM on it, so may be confusing content of that article with other stuff I found). 

No, she read it as a warning for us I believe.

[Navidad]

Hi all: I have several thoughts on this question. First, whenever you read in a news-type article online about what "prominent evangelicals" teach or say, you can be pretty sure that the person is a "celebrity evangelical." There is a big difference. Celebrities become such by  making outlandish statements. That is how they get clicks. Second, you cannot be sure if the prominent Evangelical is a Fundamentalist, a Pentecostal, or a member of a mainstream Protestant group, or what? There is little discernment involved in the use of the term evangelical.

The Book of Revelation is a very unique kind of writing only found in a few places in the Bible. It is apocalyptic literature: There is some in Daniel, in Ezekiel and in Revelation. It is extremely hard to interpret. It is so hard not to inject our thinking of our own time into our interpretation. I can remember a day in early June, 1967 when an Arab-Israeli war broke out and at the same time a blackout covered the northeastern US where I lived. I remember it well because my typing final was cancelled because of no electricity. To me, it was an answer to prayer! (not really). My father sat in his Dodge all day listening to the radio because he was sure it was the beginning of Armageddon. Of course, it wasn't. We don't know if the events described in Biblical apocalyptic literature are already fulfilled, are yet to come, are completely symbolic, or ??????

If I may I would like to recommend the analysis of the mark of the beast found in this link. It is from a truly prominent evangelical scholar and is balanced in its interpretation and analysis. The author, Dr. Keener is a "prominent" New Testament scholar at Asbury Seminary, a Methodist school. I really like his thoughtfulness and lack of bias as he helps walk us through such a difficult subject. I hope you all find it interesting.

https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/what-is-the-mark-of-the-beast

Edited July 8, 2020 by Navidad

[RevTestament]

On 7/8/2020 at 9:42 AM, Navidad said:

Hi all: I have several thoughts on this question. First, whenever you read in a news-type article online about what "prominent evangelicals" teach or say, you can be pretty sure that the person is a "celebrity evangelical." There is a big difference. Celebrities become such by  making outlandish statements. That is how they get clicks. Second, you cannot be sure if the prominent Evangelical is a Fundamentalist, a Pentecostal, or a member of a mainstream Protestant group, or what? There is little discernment involved in the use of the term evangelical.

The Book of Revelation is a very unique kind of writing only found in a few places in the Bible. It is apocalyptic literature: There is some in Daniel, in Ezekiel and in Revelation. It is extremely hard to interpret. It is so hard not to inject our thinking of our own time into our interpretation. I can remember a day in early June, 1967 when an Arab-Israeli war broke out and at the same time a blackout covered the northeastern US where I lived. I remember it well because my typing final was cancelled because of no electricity. To me, it was an answer to prayer! (not really). My father sat in his Dodge all day listening to the radio because he was sure it was the beginning of Armageddon. Of course, it wasn't. We don't know if the events described in Biblical apocalyptic literature are already fulfilled, are yet to come, are completely symbolic, or ??????

If I may I would like to recommend the analysis of the mark of the beast found in this link. It is from a truly prominent evangelical scholar and is balanced in its interpretation and analysis. The author, Dr. Keener is a "prominent" New Testament scholar at Asbury Seminary, a Methodist school. I really like his thoughtfulness and lack of bias as he helps walk us through such a difficult subject. I hope you all find it interesting.

https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/what-is-the-mark-of-the-beast

I am actually aware of the many attempts through history to answer the question of the number of his name ie 666. That article does a decent job of covering several of the attempts including those by Irenaeus. Since it is prophecy, I do not believe the number must conform to Hebrew or gamatria. One of the most popular views is that  “Nero Caesar,” comes out to “666.” The article even points out archaeologists have uncovered a document from the Judean desert that spells the name precisely this way. "Interestingly, some copyists preferred for “666” the questionable reading “616,” which is another way that one could count “Nero Caesar” (omitting a debatable letter)."

However, the author omits one view early Protestants had, which surely you  know about - that is Vicarius Filii Dei which adds up to 666 in Roman numerals. Catholics take pains to show that the pontiff doesn't go by that title, but it was in the Donation of Constantine which Catholics point out was a forgery. Nonetheless, the Donation  was adopted into Roman Catholic law by way of reference for awhile - that is until they decided the Donation was a forgery.... just a little extra info.

[Kenngo1969]

On 5/21/2020 at 12:38 PM, Ahab said:

666 is the sum of the first 36 natural numbers ( i.e. 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + 34 + 35 + 36 = 666), and thus it is a triangular number. Notice that 36 = 15 + 21; 15, 21, and 36 are also triangular numbers; and 152 + 212 = 225 + 441 = 666.

In base 10, 666 is a repdigit (and therefore a palindromic number) and a Smith number. A prime reciprocal magic square based on 1/149 in base 10 has a magic total of 666.

The prime factorization of 666 is 2 • 32 • 37. Also, 666 is the sum of squares of first seven primes: {2^{4}+3^{9}+5^{25}+7^{49}+11^{121}+13^{169}+17^{289}

The Roman numeral for 666, DCLXVI, has exactly one occurrence of all symbols whose value is less than 1000 in decreasing order (D = 500, C = 100, L = 50, X = 10, V = 5, I = 1).

Fascinating, isn't it (the sign of the beast)

Owwwwww!

You're making my head hurt!!!!!!!!!!!