The Next Exciting Temple Location?

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Israeli law would not allow it.  And that's not what Orson Hyde said, on instructions from Joseph Smith:  It is to be a specifically Jewish temple.  There is little doubt that the Dome of the Rock and Al Aksa Mosque will be razed by the Jews at some point.  Currently it is illegal to do so, but the Israelis have been steadily moving into more strict religious observance over the years, and the ultra-Orthodox have been gaining power.  Part of that is their high birthrate.  Eventually, the Knesset will pass a law permitting removal of religious rights of Muslims on the Temple Mount.  That will be the result of, of the cause of a major crisis, and it is hard to see the actual circumstances from our current static vantage point.  But it will take place.  The Jews have already been outfitting and training their priests.

While there we were told about going to the wall on Friday night.  It is hard to describe our feelings while there - the security which was much more than earlier that day, the great groups of people, the singing and dancing and praying. It was something I won't forget.  It was all so much...more, that night.

Reading what you said that all came to mind. Like there is a connection somehow.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Rain

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I really look forward to the day when the prophesied temple in Independence is built. That will mean that the apostate branches have begun to see the error of their ways, and will be coming back to the Church. That will be a good day indeed. 

Or they went bankrupt and we picked the land up cheap.

[Bernard Gui]

18 hours ago, Duncan said:

Other than where you live where would the next exciting Temple to be announced be? Now, that they have one in China, Rome, Ukraine, Hungary-places 30 years ago would seem beyond impossible to put a Temple in. I think Mongolia would be cool and I can't think of why they don't build another one in the UK, but beyond that where else? 

Krakow, Poland, and Prague, Czech Republic.

[Calm]

38 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

the ultra-Orthodox have been gaining power.  Part of that is their high birthrate. 

Their behaviour during the virus outbreak might lead to greater unpopularity and possible loss of power from what I have read (still gathering by religious instruction for weddings, funerals, etc.)

https://time.com/5815426/israel-orthodox-jewish-coronavirus/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/calls-to-seal-off-ultra-orthodox-areas-adds-tension-to-israels-virus-response

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/coronavirus-in-israel-closure-on-more-cities-death-toll-rises-ultra-orthodox-town-1.8737999

Quote

11:55 A.M. Nearly three-quarters of Jerusalem patients live in ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods

Nearly three-quarters of Jerusalem's coronavirus patients live in ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods, official figures show. According to official figures, 1,068 of the 1,442 people diagnosed with coronavirus in Jerusalem as of Monday, or 74 percent, are residents of these neighborhoods. This means Jerusalem's ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods are among the parts of the country with the highest proportion of cases per residents. (Aaron Rabinowitz)

If secular Jews have family who die due to the virus and especially if due in part to short supplies, etc., I can see a possible backlash against those who put the country in that situation with noncompliance.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Calm

[rongo]

12 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Krakow, Poland, and Prague, Czech Republic.

Church is too weak in both of these places (Poland and Czech/Slovak missions were my parents last two). It hasn't stopped the Church from building temples in weak areas before (not by a long shot), but neither area can staff and patronize them. Not really. 

The Ukraine temple was built simply because we could, and feared that the window for ever building one would close forever. 

[rongo]

45 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Israeli law would not allow it. 

A lot can change. Rapidly.

 It is to be a specifically Jewish temple. 

That's a good point. It will come from the Jews, rather than Gentile Israel.

[Robert F. Smith]

40 minutes ago, rongo said:

A lot can change. Rapidly.

Israeli law is not very friendly to Christian incursions, except under special circumstances.  Mormons are already prohibited from proselyting in the country, and, as I pointed out, the country is moving steadily to the right in Judaism.  A semester abroad facility is one thing, establishing a temple quite another.

40 minutes ago, rongo said:

That's a good point. It will come from the Jews, rather than Gentile Israel.

Apostle Hyde, as I have pointed out was very specific on the final gathering of the Jews.  Not sure what you mean by "Gentile Israel."  Are you referring to the LDS Jerusalem Center.  Few Mormons have any idea what the Gathering of Israel actually entails.  Like the Jews, they are very ethnocentric.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Their behaviour during the virus outbreak might lead to greater unpopularity and possible loss of power from what I have read (still gathering by religious instruction for weddings, funerals, etc.)

https://time.com/5815426/israel-orthodox-jewish-coronavirus/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/calls-to-seal-off-ultra-orthodox-areas-adds-tension-to-israels-virus-response

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/coronavirus-in-israel-closure-on-more-cities-death-toll-rises-ultra-orthodox-town-1.8737999

If secular Jews have family who die due to the virus and especially if due in part to short supplies, etc., I can see a possible backlash against those who put the country in that situation with noncompliance.

I fully expect a high death rate in the Haredi community due to their unwillingness to abide by social distancing rules.  They are very closed-minded and heedless of secular demands.  Netanyahu uses them to support his corrupt administration, thus catering to their desires, which angers a great many secular Israelis.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

While there we were told about going to the wall on Friday night.  It is hard to describe our feelings while there - the security which was much more than earlier that day, the great groups of people, the singing and dancing and praying. It was something I won't forget.  It was all so much...more, that night.

Reading what you said that all came to mind. Like there is a connection somehow.

Did you go into the women's section to pray?

[Rain]

1 minute ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I fully expect a high death rate in the Haredi community due to their unwillingness to abide by social distancing rules.  They are very closed-minded and heedless of secular demands.  Netanyahu uses them to support his corrupt administration, thus catering to their desires, which angers a great many secular Israelis.

When we first got to Jerusalem we couldn't find our apartment even with google maps.  We stopped and I tried to show my phone to someone and ask for directions.  She couldn't look at my phone.  Might she have been one of this group?

[Rain]

1 minute ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Did you go into the women's section to pray?

I didn't.  I get very claustrophobic in groups and I wasn't sure what the rules were anyway so we just hung back where we could see most of what was going on.

[rongo]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Not sure what you mean by "Gentile Israel."  

Phase one of the restoration was among the Gentiles --- but in the special Book of Mormon definition, these Gentiles (from predominantly northern European ancestry) are also Israel (primarily the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh). But, as the Book of Mormon and Bible testify, the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled, and there will be other phases. The ten thousands of Ephraim and the thousands of Manasseh pushed the peoples of the earth together like bulls with their horns, but I think we in the Gentile Church (Book of Mormon definition) think things will always remain that way. 

You reminded me that the Jews (not connected with the Church) will build the temple. And "out of Zion will go forth the law, and the world of the Lord from Jerusalem."

Hugh Nibley wrote of Jewish Israeli priests getting ready for the return of the temple cultus, but they were largely flying without instruments, other than ancient records and traditions. 

[Lemuel]

20 hours ago, Duncan said:

Other than where you live where would the next exciting Temple to be announced be? Now, that they have one in China, Rome, Ukraine, Hungary-places 30 years ago would seem beyond impossible to put a Temple in. I think Mongolia would be cool and I can't think of why they don't build another one in the UK, but beyond that where else? 

Russia would be cool.

[Kenngo1969]

12 hours ago, Lemuel said:

Russia would be cool.

You mean, it will be?   (Come on!  Have you been sleeping through the restoration?  Sorry!  Couldn't resist!)

Edited April 8, 2020 by Kenngo1969

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, rongo said:

Church is too weak in both of these places (Poland and Czech/Slovak missions were my parents last two). It hasn't stopped the Church from building temples in weak areas before (not by a long shot), but neither area can staff and patronize them. Not really. 

That's precisely why it will be so exciting when the Prophet announces their construction. 

My wife and my father predicted one of our sons would serve a mission in Poland. We thought they were nuts. This was before Lech Walesa and Solidarity. One did.

Their time will come.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

Phase one of the restoration was among the Gentiles --- but in the special Book of Mormon definition, these Gentiles (from predominantly northern European ancestry) are also Israel (primarily the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh). But, as the Book of Mormon and Bible testify, the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled, and there will be other phases. The ten thousands of Ephraim and the thousands of Manasseh pushed the peoples of the earth together like bulls with their horns, but I think we in the Gentile Church (Book of Mormon definition) think things will always remain that way. 

The worldwide LDS Church has many patriarchal blessing now from all the other tribes, not just Ephraim -- which has been the dominant tribe for LDS converts from West European background.  Some say that it is by adoption, others by blood.  Then there are the Lamanites from Manasseh (and from Ephraim, if we take seriously some claims about Ishmael).  It isn't clear how all that shakes out.

2 hours ago, rongo said:

You reminded me that the Jews (not connected with the Church) will build the temple. And "out of Zion will go forth the law, and the world of the Lord from Jerusalem."

Hugh Nibley wrote of Jewish Israeli priests getting ready for the return of the temple cultus, but they were largely flying without instruments, other than ancient records and traditions. 

The talmudic specs are very detailed.  Naturally they are oriented to the old sacrificial rites in the Tent of Meeting, and the two Temples in Jerusalem, along with all the other Israelite high places and temples in and out of the Land of Israel (there were two in Egypt).  Once the Jerusalem Temple Mount has been cleared, the Jews will purify the whole mount with the ashes of a red heifer.  Only then can the work on the temple begin.

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, Rain said:

I didn't.  I get very claustrophobic in groups and I wasn't sure what the rules were anyway so we just hung back where we could see most of what was going on.

The women's section is quite liberal.  Anybody can pray.  The women are not allowed to use prayer shawls, to don phylacteries, or to carry Torah scrolls.  On the men's side, any man, Jew or Gentile can pray at the wall.  Same as being in a synagogue, where even Gentiles are expected to don a yarmulka.

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, Rain said:

When we first got to Jerusalem we couldn't find our apartment even with google maps.  We stopped and I tried to show my phone to someone and ask for directions.  She couldn't look at my phone.  Might she have been one of this group?

Yes, the city is very confusing at first.  And, yes, the Haredim (ultra-orthodox) try to ignore Gentiles.  They would always talk to me in Hebrew, but they didn't know I was a Gentile.

[Kenngo1969]

24 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yes, the city is very confusing at first.  And, yes, the Haredim (ultra-orthodox) try to ignore Gentiles.  They would always talk to me in Hebrew, but they didn't know I was a Gentile.

I have absolutely no idea if this is correct, since I don't speak Hebrew, myself.  Google translate:

אני לא יודע לדבר עברית

[randy]

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Or they went bankrupt and we picked the land up cheap.

Since I was born and raised in Independence, I see this being the much more likely scenario.  Of course, there are tons of wonderful people found in all the Restoration flavors represented in Independence...but generally speaking...all of their membership is older....or very old!

Most, if not all the Restoration groups are barely hanging on.  Attendance is spotty at best...financially, most if not all are struggling very hard to make ends meet.  At this point, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the only viable game in town.

 

[Lemuel]

17 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

You mean, it will be?   (Come on!  Have you been sleeping through the restoration?  Sorry!  Couldn't resist!)

It will be, if it happens.

[Damien the Leper]

On 4/6/2020 at 4:06 PM, Rain said:

It would be really cool to have one in Antarctica.

Oooo...an Ice Castle!

[Kenngo1969]

On 4/7/2020 at 1:19 PM, Lemuel said:

Russia would be cool.

 

On 4/7/2020 at 2:14 PM, Kenngo1969 said:

You mean, it will be?   (Come on!  Have you been sleeping through the restoration?  Sorry!  Couldn't resist!)

 

22 hours ago, Lemuel said:

It will be, if it happens.

So ...

You think that President Russell M. Nelson and/or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is going to go waaaay out on a limb and announce that a Temple is going to be constructed somewhere even when the only things that have happened are: (1) encouraging discussions with appropriate officials and/or (2) an agreement in principle?  I don't.  To me, that would be the equivalent of saying, "Oh, yes.  Actually, formal missionary work is happening in [Country X, where, officially, such activity is forbidden].  We just don't talk about it." 

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints doesn't go in through the back door (unless you consider the "back door" to be, "OK, we'll let your humanitarian 'missionaries' come in, but they cannot proselyte.  If anybody asks, they can talk about your church and what it does, but unless that happens, they cannot say anything about those subjects."  But, still, apart from individual members or missionaries going "off of the reservation," the Church of Jesus Christ honors those agreements.)

Off hand, I can think of only two temple announcements that have been withdrawn:  Harrison, New York, and another in the South Pacific, the name of which is escaping me at the moment.

 

[Judd]

8 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

 

So ...

You think that President Russell M. Nelson and/or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is going to go waaaay out on a limb and announce that a Temple is going to be constructed somewhere even when the only things that have happened are: (1) encouraging discussions with appropriate officials and/or (2) an agreement in principle?  I don't.  To me, that would be the equivalent of saying, "Oh, yes.  Actually, formal missionary work is happening in [Country X, where, officially, such activity is forbidden].  We just don't talk about it." 

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints doesn't go in through the back door (unless you consider the "back door" to be, "OK, we'll let your humanitarian 'missionaries' come in, but they cannot proselyte.  If anybody asks, they can talk about your church and what it does, but unless that happens, they cannot say anything about those subjects."  But, still, apart from individual members or missionaries going "off of the reservation," the Church of Jesus Christ honors those agreements.)

Off hand, I can think of only two temple announcements that have been withdrawn:  Harrison, New York, and another in the South Pacific, the name of which is escaping me at the moment.

 

Pago Pago, American Samoa. But it was also recently re-announced. I hope the design pays homage to the original design. 
 

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, Judd said:

Pago Pago, American Samoa. But it was also recently re-announced. I hope the design pays homage to the original design. 
 

Kewl!  I was not aware that it had been reannounced!  That's awesome.