Administering Sacrament in the Home

[Robert J Anderson]

45 minutes ago, Calm said:

Many of us have been around since the board started so subtract 10-15 years from our ages for when we were first attracted to the board, so there is no real reason to assume it attracts retirees mostly.   We use to have more academics, both students and professors also.

Good to know.

[Stargazer]

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I am in my very early 40s.

Good. Draconian measures are needed right now. The British were being even worse then the US about downplaying the crisis.

Well I live in the UK at this time, and as far as I could see from my angle they were not downplaying it. There was natural caution being expressed by the government -- this thing was being solidly downplayed and denied by the Chinese government, however. 

I was thinking the UK government were going overboard a bit too much a few weeks ago.  I've changed my mind at this point.

My wife works in a hospital, so I'm a little closer to the problem than most. A couple of weeks ago they issued some really effective masks to all the staff, and they were trained on how to use them. 

The Prime Minister made a national broadcast tonight in which he told the country that everyone needed to stay home unless they were in essential occupations. So, for the next three weeks (minimum) we must pretend that the zombie apocalypse has occurred, and stay at home unless absolutely necessary.

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Total reported cases were around 350k worldwide this morning. Just refreshed and up to 360k.

Anyone who wants to be morbid with me here is the tracker I have liked best so far:

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

They just updated the US so you can see reported cases by county and not just by state. It is still doing Canada by province and most of the rest of the world by nation.

So, who among us is still laughing at the "preppers" out there?

[Stargazer]

7 hours ago, Navidad said:

I am sure you are right. I just try to be overly cautious. I have given up trying to figure out what offends some folks. Oh, and I am a PhD by research student at the University of Kent in Canterbury. Are you familiar with it? Best wishes. 

I wasn't familiar with it before, but now I am! Last weekend the wife and I spent a couple of days about 30 miles away from Canterbury, in the town of Rye.

Now that the government has told everyone to stay home, that will be the last trip we will make for some weeks.

[Robert J Anderson]

So, what does everyone think of Costco not allowing returns on toilet paper? Will other stores follow suit?  What will the prepers and hoarders do with all that toilet paper?  There might be some deals in a few months online.

[Hamba Tuhan]

19 minutes ago, Robert J Anderson said:

So, what does everyone think of Costco not allowing returns on toilet paper?

All of our shops here have issued a 'no returns' rule. Their recommendation if people overbought: donate it to a community services provider since you've intentionally made life hard for the vulnerable they serve.

[Rain]

11 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Well I live in the UK at this time, and as far as I could see from my angle they were not downplaying it. There was natural caution being expressed by the government -- this thing was being solidly downplayed and denied by the Chinese government, however. 

I was thinking the UK government were going overboard a bit too much a few weeks ago.  I've changed my mind at this point.

My wife works in a hospital, so I'm a little closer to the problem than most. A couple of weeks ago they issued some really effective masks to all the staff, and they were trained on how to use them. 

The Prime Minister made a national broadcast tonight in which he told the country that everyone needed to stay home unless they were in essential occupations. So, for the next three weeks (minimum) we must pretend that the zombie apocalypse has occurred, and stay at home unless absolutely necessary.

So, who among us is still laughing at the "preppers" out there?

I don't really think this group would be doing that - unless you mean extreme preppers. I don't consider myself extreme by any means, but on my other board I would be considered a "prepper".

I do have a family member who thought food storage was for "imbecils", but now feels like that term applies to her instead.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Rain

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, Robert J Anderson said:

So, what does everyone think of Costco not allowing returns on toilet paper? Will other stores follow suit?  What will the prepers and hoarders do with all that toilet paper?  There might be some deals in a few months online.

I call it karma. 
 

I’ve made a standing offer to take some of it off their hands after the crisis blows over for, say, 20 cents on the dollar. 

[The Nehor]

14 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

How has self-quarantining been shown not to work? Because we are still getting new cases? How do you know it wouldn’t be worse without the self-quarantining?

I was unclear. It would work if it were done but it is not going to be done voluntarily (as has been shown so far) and the government is not going to enforce it in the US or in most of Europe.

Asian cultures have had a little more luck because their culture encourages compliance. China has that and the will to enforce it but it probably did not work there since they did the same thing our federal government did and stuck their fingers in their ears hoping the problem would go away. It didn't and now that all foreign journalists have been expelled their numbers are almost certainly lies. I would not be surprised either if minority ethnic groups are being intentionally infected to thin their numbers.  

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Robert J Anderson said:

So, what does everyone think of Costco not allowing returns on toilet paper? Will other stores follow suit?  What will the prepers and hoarders do with all that toilet paper?  There might be some deals in a few months online.

Good. Idiocy should involve facing the consequences.

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Well I live in the UK at this time, and as far as I could see from my angle they were not downplaying it. There was natural caution being expressed by the government -- this thing was being solidly downplayed and denied by the Chinese government, however. 

I was thinking the UK government were going overboard a bit too much a few weeks ago.  I've changed my mind at this point.

My wife works in a hospital, so I'm a little closer to the problem than most. A couple of weeks ago they issued some really effective masks to all the staff, and they were trained on how to use them. 

The Prime Minister made a national broadcast tonight in which he told the country that everyone needed to stay home unless they were in essential occupations. So, for the next three weeks (minimum) we must pretend that the zombie apocalypse has occurred, and stay at home unless absolutely necessary.

Boris Johnson originally wanted to weather it without separating anyone but the most vulnerable to get herd immunity and let it burn itself out. In the last two weeks the government has wisely changed course on that but they lost valuable time and their infection rate is shooting up. NHS is going to face a bottleneck in another week or two.

7 hours ago, Stargazer said:

So, who among us is still laughing at the "preppers" out there?

If by that you mean the people with bunkers and lots of firearms I still am.

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I was unclear. It would work if it were done but it is not going to be done voluntarily (as has been shown so far) and the government is not going to enforce it in the US or in most of Europe.

Asian cultures have had a little more luck because their culture encourages compliance. China has that and the will to enforce it but it probably did not work there since they did the same thing our federal government did and stuck their fingers in their ears hoping the problem would go away. It didn't and now that all foreign journalists have been expelled their numbers are almost certainly lies. I would not be surprised either if minority ethnic groups are being intentionally infected to thin their numbers.  

Early on, Trump banned travel from China, an action that checked to some degree the spread of the virus to this country. For that, he was harshly criticized, the stale, old trope about him being “xenophobic.” 
 

But it wasn’t exactly a case of our government putting its fingers in its ears. 

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

If by that you mean the people with bunkers and lots of firearms I still am.

It depends upon one's definition of "prepper."

What if someone has firearms but no bunkers?  What if someone has a bunker and no firearms?  Is there a threshold to qualify for the definition? A certain number of firearms, and a certain amount of ammo?  A shotgun, a bolt-action rifle and a revolver are insufficient, but add an AR-15 and suddenly you're over the line?  Or is it mindset that determines the qualification? 

There are some who might consider me to be a prepper simply because I have a couple of years of storable food in my basement. Which is currently 4,000 miles away from where I am. And in the current coronavirus panic I can probably return to the US, but I might not be able to come back to the UK -- unless my legal resident status permits it, which I don't yet know.  

The time may come when even you might not feel inclined to laugh at preppers. In the tribulation preceding the second coming things are going to get very dicey. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Stargazer

[Stargazer]

6 hours ago, Rain said:

I don't really think this group would be doing that - unless you mean extreme preppers.

I think @The Nehor would.  And then we come to a matter of definitions and qualifications. Are there different degrees of prepper like there are degrees of Masonry?   

6 hours ago, Rain said:

I don't consider myself extreme by any means, but on my other board I would be considered a "prepper".

And then we come to how we believing and practicing (until we get it right) LDS are considered to be religious extremists by some people.

6 hours ago, Rain said:

I do have a family member who thought food storage was for "imbecils", but not feels like that term applies to her instead.

Has she changed her mind yet?

 

[Stargazer]

nvrmind

[Rain]

9 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I think @The Nehor would.  And then we come to a matter of definitions and qualifications. Are there different degrees of prepper like there are degrees of Masonry?   

And then we come to how we believing and practicing (until we get it right) LDS are considered to be religious extremists by some people. 

I don't know that you can draw any lines, but listening to the prophets over the years it does suggest you can go too far. There is some boundary over preparing because preparing is how the Lord works in all things and preparing out of fear.

Personally, I'm not going to make fun of the latter as I feel I should have patience and not judgement of those who fear, but I understand why some would.

9 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Has she changed her mind yet?

 

Since she "feels like that term applies to her instead" I would say yes. This happened within a day or 2.

[Stargazer]

The UK government has told the people that except for those in essential occupations they must stay home. For at least three weeks.  The grocery stores will continue to operate, but clothing stores, electronics retailers, and so on, must remain closed.  Medical facilities will remain operating, of course, but will only provide urgent care. Dentists will only handle emergencies.  You're allowed to leave your house to get groceries, but only infrequently. You're allowed to leave your house once per day to go on a walk, go bicycling, or visit a park, but except for your own household, gatherings of more than 2 people are forbidden. Any larger gatherings will be dispersed.

And the police power will be utilized to enforce all this.

The one thing that this coronavirus thing may do, assuming it blows over and we go back to something resembling "normal", is that plenty of thoughtful people, who previously thought "preppers" were completely nuts, will begin to rethink some things. And they might conclude that while some preppers were probably nuts, nevertheless maybe there is a principle there worth emulating out of common sense. Some will realize that they really ought to be prepared, rather than mindlessly relying upon the indestructible dependability of the endless supply chain. 

We truly do live in interesting times.

 

[Stargazer]

13 minutes ago, Rain said:

I don't know that you can draw any lines, but listening to the prophets over the years it does suggest you can go too far. There is some boundary over preparing because preparing is how the Lord works in all things and preparing out of fear.

Personally, I'm not going to make fun of the latter as I feel I should have patience and not judgement of those who fear, but I understand why some would.

I know this guy who really took things to an extreme. He didn't seem to be dealing from fear, so much, but his preparation was definitely to the next level, as it were. Because he lived in the shadow of Mt. Rainier (a potentially dangerous volcano) and the shadow of the upcoming megathrust earthquake of the Cascadia Subduction Zone (anytime from now to the next 700 years), he decided that he needed to create supply caches along certain routes out of the danger zone, in case his family needed to exfiltrate to safer places.  I don't know how many he created, but he placed a number of supply caches (buried in public land using sealed pipe containers) along likely exfiltration routes so that they wouldn't need to carry everything on their backs if they needed to do it on foot.  This was years ago. Now that he's well over 70 years old and his children have all grown up and moved out, I'm pretty sure he's abandoned his preparations. But I haven't seen him in years, so...

Personally, I thought he was taking things too far, but he didn't let it rule his life like some preppers do.  As I recall, when the early South Pole explorers were preparing to reach that desolate place they first put out supply caches so that they would be able to re-supply on the way back -- because they couldn't carry all they needed for both coming and going.

13 minutes ago, Rain said:

Since she "feels like that term applies to her instead" I would say yes. This happened within a day or 2.

Wow, someone who can self-evaluate!  A good sign.

[MustardSeed]

I think that this is enough of a “trauma” that it will imprint a certain fear that will force new behaviors in the future, kind of the way the depression influenced my grandma in ways I thought were strange. 
 

I for one am learning of the importance of food storage, and also I’m now keenly aware of the amount of food I used to waste.  Leftovers are now not tossed, even if it’s just oatmeal.  Also I’m learning about the importance of cleanliness. I wasn’t gross before but my hands are really dry now- 

Edited March 24, 2020 by MustardSeed

[Amulek]

14 hours ago, Stargazer said:

So, who among us is still laughing at the "preppers" out there?

I've got a family member who one might consider to be a "prepper." This weekend he called everyone in the family to make sure we all had enough of whatever we needed, and he offered to bring stuff to us if any of us had any needs (e.g., toilet paper, food storage, etc.). I was happy to report that we were in good shape, but it reminded me that one of the benefits of being well prepared is that you then have the capacity to reach out and help others in their time of need. 

 

[Calm]

27 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I think that this is enough of a “trauma” that it will imprint a certain fear that will force new behaviors in the future, kind of the way the depression influenced my grandma in ways I thought were strange. 
 

I for one am learning of the importance of food storage, and also I’m now keenly aware of the amount of food I used to waste.  Leftovers are now not tossed, even if it’s just oatmeal.  Also I’m learning about the importance of cleanliness. I wasn’t gross before but my hands are really dry now- 

Two that my daughter uses (diabetic with thin skin and dry dry hands). Vanicream and CeraVe.  

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Early on, Trump banned travel from China, an action that checked to some degree the spread of the virus to this country. For that, he was harshly criticized, the stale, old trope about him being “xenophobic.” 
 

But it wasn’t exactly a case of our government putting its fingers in its ears. 

No, he "restricted travel" for any foreign nationals that had been in China in the last 14 days. The "bans" were and are so leaky and filled with loopholes they are basically useless. It was symbolic and did little to nothing in slowing the spread. The screenings were weak and forms handed out that operate on the honor system and then they were mostly told to self-quarantine and most did not. Meanwhile his preparations amounted to nothing. His whining that letting the early cruise ship dock would push up the number of cases in the US revealed his true focus: to make it look like the threat was contained whether it was or not. It will be some time before the facts are out but if I were a gambler I would bet he intentionally kept tests out of the hands of federal and state agencies to keep reported cases low.

He is called xenophobic because he is xenophobic. His addresses are filled with buzzwords designed to make the virus "foreign". And yeah, he did just hope it would go away. The debacle with the tests while insisting that anyone who wanted a test would get one (this is still not true) reveals his dedication to dishonesty and obfuscation. If this goes half as badly as I think it will his hopes of reelection will be gone. A real crisis is often the testing point of a Presidency. George W. Bush on 9/11, Roosevelt on Pearl Harbor, and the like. They stood up to unify a nation and had to tell some hard truths and provide some basic direction and comfort. Trump continues to obfuscate and lie and stick to being President only for those he likes while gnawing on old grievances. His "my fellow Americans" speech was pathetic and self-serving and will go down in history as how not to deal with a crisis. Vague information that required numerous corrections, overblown false promises, and the like. In the past Trump has gotten away with lies because the lies did not impact his supporters. He can lie about what was in the Mueller report because no one read it. He can lie about the Ukraine call because very few looked at the raw data. His lies about this virus will be exposed quickly when people start dying even more quickly. Then again his supporters seem uniquely capable of forgetting what he said last week and focus exclusively on the latest story so maybe he will survive. We have always been at war with Australasia.

[Rain]

44 minutes ago, Amulek said:

I've got a family member who one might consider to be a "prepper." This weekend he called everyone in the family to make sure we all had enough of whatever we needed, and he offered to bring stuff to us if any of us had any needs (e.g., toilet paper, food storage, etc.). I was happy to report that we were in good shape, but it reminded me that one of the benefits of being well prepared is that you then have the capacity to reach out and help others in their time of need. 

 

Provident Living was designed just this reason.

I read through it again after searching for the link. Caught something I didn't see before when covid wasn't the big thing like it is today 

"On 20 April of that year the First Presidency assigned stake president Harold B. Lee to introduce the welfare program Churchwide. He later recalled, “I was astounded to learn that for years there had been before them [Church leaders], as a result of their thinking and planning and as the result of the inspiration of Almighty God, the genius of the very plan that is being carried out and was in waiting and in preparation for a time when in their judgment the faith of the Latter-day Saints was such that they were willing to follow the counsel of the men who lead and preside in this Church.”"

Puts more light on Ensign Peak.

[Stargazer]

10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No, he "restricted travel" for any foreign nationals that had been in China in the last 14 days. The "bans" were and are so leaky and filled with loopholes they are basically useless. It was symbolic and did little to nothing in slowing the spread. The screenings were weak and forms handed out that operate on the honor system and then they were mostly told to self-quarantine and most did not. Meanwhile his preparations amounted to nothing. His whining that letting the early cruise ship dock would push up the number of cases in the US revealed his true focus: to make it look like the threat was contained whether it was or not. It will be some time before the facts are out but if I were a gambler I would bet he intentionally kept tests out of the hands of federal and state agencies to keep reported cases low.

He is called xenophobic because he is xenophobic. His addresses are filled with buzzwords designed to make the virus "foreign". And yeah, he did just hope it would go away. The debacle with the tests while insisting that anyone who wanted a test would get one (this is still not true) reveals his dedication to dishonesty and obfuscation. If this goes half as badly as I think it will his hopes of reelection will be gone. A real crisis is often the testing point of a Presidency. George W. Bush on 9/11, Roosevelt on Pearl Harbor, and the like. They stood up to unify a nation and had to tell some hard truths and provide some basic direction and comfort. Trump continues to obfuscate and lie and stick to being President only for those he likes while gnawing on old grievances. His "my fellow Americans" speech was pathetic and self-serving and will go down in history as how not to deal with a crisis. Vague information that required numerous corrections, overblown false promises, and the like. In the past Trump has gotten away with lies because the lies did not impact his supporters. He can lie about what was in the Mueller report because no one read it. He can lie about the Ukraine call because very few looked at the raw data. His lies about this virus will be exposed quickly when people start dying even more quickly. Then again his supporters seem uniquely capable of forgetting what he said last week and focus exclusively on the latest story so maybe he will survive. We have always been at war with Australasia.

TDS.

[The Nehor]

My state's idiot lieutenant governor is now suggesting that older and at risk people (to be fair including himself) sacrifice themselves to save the economy. Idolatry reigns as people now exist to serve the economy instead of the logical inverse.

My county issued a "stay at home" order late last night. Nonessential travel can be punished by fines and possible jail time (unlikely on the latter).

The Olympics are now officially being delayed until next year.

President is saying people will be going back to work very soon.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

TDS.

Ah yes, the old fake psychological diagnosis. Anyone saying bad things about our rambling incoherent God-Emperor is clearly insane.