The Nehor Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 23 hours ago, The Nehor said: Good. Draconian measures are needed right now. The British were being even worse then the US about downplaying the crisis. Total reported cases were around 350k worldwide this morning. Just refreshed and up to 360k. I posted this less then a day ago. We are going to hit 400k worldwide by the end of the day.
Scott Lloyd Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 31 minutes ago, The Nehor said: No, he "restricted travel" for any foreign nationals that had been in China in the last 14 days. The "bans" were and are so leaky and filled with loopholes they are basically useless. It was symbolic and did little to nothing in slowing the spread. The screenings were weak and forms handed out that operate on the honor system and then they were mostly told to self-quarantine and most did not. Meanwhile his preparations amounted to nothing. His whining that letting the early cruise ship dock would push up the number of cases in the US revealed his true focus: to make it look like the threat was contained whether it was or not. It will be some time before the facts are out but if I were a gambler I would bet he intentionally kept tests out of the hands of federal and state agencies to keep reported cases low. He is called xenophobic because he is xenophobic. His addresses are filled with buzzwords designed to make the virus "foreign". And yeah, he did just hope it would go away. The debacle with the tests while insisting that anyone who wanted a test would get one (this is still not true) reveals his dedication to dishonesty and obfuscation. If this goes half as badly as I think it will his hopes of reelection will be gone. A real crisis is often the testing point of a Presidency. George W. Bush on 9/11, Roosevelt on Pearl Harbor, and the like. They stood up to unify a nation and had to tell some hard truths and provide some basic direction and comfort. Trump continues to obfuscate and lie and stick to being President only for those he likes while gnawing on old grievances. His "my fellow Americans" speech was pathetic and self-serving and will go down in history as how not to deal with a crisis. Vague information that required numerous corrections, overblown false promises, and the like. In the past Trump has gotten away with lies because the lies did not impact his supporters. He can lie about what was in the Mueller report because no one read it. He can lie about the Ukraine call because very few looked at the raw data. His lies about this virus will be exposed quickly when people start dying even more quickly. Then again his supporters seem uniquely capable of forgetting what he said last week and focus exclusively on the latest story so maybe he will survive. We have always been at war with Australasia. I don’t accept that the travel bans have been useless. And at a time like this it is absurd to call them xenophobic. As in war time, we need to tone down the partisan rhetoric for the good of the nation and its citizenry.
The Nehor Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Congress may finally pass the aid bill today. It is unclear what is in it. This is one area I expect Trump will be helpful. He has historically been proven to love spending other people's money to boost his own status. In 2008 it took months to get an 800 billion dollar deal done. We may have a 2 trillion dollar bill by the end of the day. Trump is also not ideologically Republican and bailout forms that made Republicans balk in 2008 are being quietly accepted despite verging on socialism for those who are losing their jobs. It is going to be amusing to see the old-school free-market Republicans who embraced Trump and who in previous crises were worried about the moral hazards of delaying foreclosures, ensuring income, and deferring student loans are likely going to suddenly vote for it. Universal Basic Income was derided only months ago and now Trump is demanding a short-term version of it. The irony that Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are basically supporting the same things (though for different reasons) has me giggling. Democrats are screwing this up. Not sure why they made the idiot move to try to bring in student loan forgiveness when deferral or forbearance make more sense. I am looking forward to seeing what is in this bill. As has been before in this thread: Interesting times indeed.
Bernard Gui Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 8 hours ago, The Nehor said: If by that you mean the people with bunkers and lots of firearms I still am. Let's see if it stays that way in 3 or 4 weeks.
The Nehor Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I don’t accept that the travel bans have been useless. And at a time like this it is absurd to call them xenophobic. As in war time, we need to tone down the partisan rhetoric for the good of the nation and its citizenry. I accept that they are. Even if they did work I still criticize how they were announced. No consultation or warning to allies, presented incoherently, and key details were left out so many American citizens and legal residents found themselves desperately spending money so they could get home before the restriction was put in effect only for later clarifications to make it clear it did not apply to them at all. Xenophobia is partisan rhetoric. On a lighter note there is a joke social media movement in Mexico with individuals offering to send money to build the border wall provided it is put up very quickly to keep the virus from spreading into Mexico. Finally found a way to get Mexico to offer to pay for it. Sadly it will not be as funny in a few more weeks. Mexico has densely packed cities and so far almost no measure have been taken. They may end up being amongst the hardest hit when all is said and done. 1
Bernard Gui Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I accept that they are. Even if they did work I still criticize how they were announced. No consultation or warning to allies, presented incoherently, and key details were left out so many American citizens and legal residents found themselves desperately spending money so they could get home before the restriction was put in effect only for later clarifications to make it clear it did not apply to them at all. Xenophobia is partisan rhetoric. On a lighter note there is a joke social media movement in Mexico with individuals offering to send money to build the border wall provided it is put up very quickly to keep the virus from spreading into Mexico. Finally found a way to get Mexico to offer to pay for it. Sadly it will not be as funny in a few more weeks. Mexico has densely packed cities and so far almost no measure have been taken. They may end up being amongst the hardest hit when all is said and done. Pretty much all of Latin America......
The Nehor Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, Bernard Gui said: Let's see if it stays that way in 3 or 4 weeks. Historically violent actions in plagues have mostly been against foreigners and (in Europe) Jews. Mad Maxx style craziness is unlikely.
The Nehor Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, Bernard Gui said: Pretty much all of Latin America...... Yeah, Mexico City is the worst in terms of density but most of Central and South America are in trouble.
Bernard Gui Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, The Nehor said: Historically violent actions in plagues have mostly been against foreigners and (in Europe) Jews. Mad Maxx style craziness is unlikely. Although I said it tongue in cheek, looting is a definite possibility.
The Nehor Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 And on a less serious note have some fun: And finally how to shut down social gatherings that should not be happening:
Bernard Gui Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) Also, some of the folks in more remote towns here in Washington are getting upset with the city folks fleeing to their supposedly safer areas, buying their stores out, and camping in woods and parks. The city of Westport was just closed and outsiders were asked to stay out. Sister Gui and I went there on Monday to walk on the beach, so I guess we were part of the problem. This could result in confrontations. Edited March 24, 2020 by Bernard Gui 1
The Nehor Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Although I said it tongue in cheek, looting is a definite possibility. It will happen but probably not on a large scale. That actually reminds me. I offered to take some of the valuable stuff out of the chapel for a while since I have room to store it inside without putting it in a garage and no kids that can break anything. I should follow up. We do have a rotation of driving by the chapel too. 1
The Nehor Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Also, some of the folks in more remote towns here in Washington are getting upset with the city folks fleeing to their supposedly safer areas, buying their stores out, and camping in woods and parks. The city of Westport was just closed and outsiders were asked to stay out. Sister Gui went there on Monday to walk on the beach, so I guess we were part of the problem. This could result in confrontations. Xenophobia.
Stargazer Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Ah yes, the old fake psychological diagnosis. Anyone saying bad things about our rambling incoherent God-Emperor is clearly insane. Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is not a clinical condition of course, as you recognize. I didn't vote for him, and I don't particularly like him. However, unlike some people I don't consider everything he does to be wrong, everything he says to be stupid, and don't believe he's either insane, a racist, and a xenophobe. The fact that you believe that he is all of that says to me that you have TDS. I see his faults, understand that he is a fallible human being like the rest of us, and that sometimes his actions will be correct and other times incorrect, even with the best advice (just like it was with Obama, the Bushes, and Clinton). As for me, it really doesn't matter whom I vote for. I vote in Washington state, and they're going to go for whatever Democrat is put in front of them. So I can vote for Mickey Mouse again, and it will have no effect whatsoever. And given who the likely Democrat candidate is at this stage (unless it becomes clearer that he is actually suffering early-stage dementia, or the overall situation changes dramatically), Trump will inevitably be re-elected. 1
Stargazer Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Xenophobia. I bet you'd love people coming into your town buying up all the consumables so you couldn't have any. It's a legitimate fear and not a phobia (i.e. irrational fear) at all. And then there's the problem of people who are carrying the virus coming into areas where it isn't yet so prevalent. I believe that most of the disease is concentrated in the cities. So let's invite possible carriers of the disease into our homes. In the UK we are being told to stay at home and the police are prepared to make arrests of people not following the government's directive of social distancing. Of course they're all xenophobes over here. Edited March 24, 2020 by Stargazer
The Nehor Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Stargazer said: Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is not a clinical condition of course, as you recognize. I didn't vote for him, and I don't particularly like him. However, unlike some people I don't consider everything he does to be wrong, everything he says to be stupid, and don't believe he's either insane, a racist, and a xenophobe. The fact that you believe that he is all of that says to me that you have TDS. I see his faults, understand that he is a fallible human being like the rest of us, and that sometimes his actions will be correct and other times incorrect, even with the best advice (just like it was with Obama, the Bushes, and Clinton). As for me, it really doesn't matter whom I vote for. I vote in Washington state, and they're going to go for whatever Democrat is put in front of them. So I can vote for Mickey Mouse again, and it will have no effect whatsoever. And given who the likely Democrat candidate is at this stage (unless it becomes clearer that he is actually suffering early-stage dementia, or the overall situation changes dramatically), Trump will inevitably be re-elected. I do not believe everything he does is wrong though most of what he does right he does for the wrong reason but you cannot have everything. In fact this coronavirus bill will probably have a lot of good in it and I expect he will sign it. The downside is we will get him bragging about how he made this happen for the next nine months when it is questionable whether he will even know what is in the bill beyond talking points. He will probably lie about what is in it too and about how involved he was. Again, you cannot have everything. Virtually everything he says is stupid. He just rambles and lies and shares how great he is with everyone with no subtlety. His saying something and it being true have no correlative value. I don't think he is insane. I do think he is a racist xenophobe though and the open racist xenophobes realize it.
The Nehor Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Stargazer said: I bet you'd love people coming into your town buying up all the consumables so you couldn't have any. It's a legitimate fear and not a phobia (i.e. irrational fear) at all. Xenophobia is not only about irrational fears.
The Nehor Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) And we made it. 407k cases worldwide. Should we start a pool on 500K? Edited March 24, 2020 by The Nehor
Bernard Gui Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 42 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Xenophobia. How so? Many people in Westport were from the interior big cities. Crowding the beaches and parks, buying out stores. What are they supposed to do?
Bernard Gui Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Xenophobia is not only about irrational fears. In common parlance today, it is definitely a negative.
Bernard Gui Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 45 minutes ago, The Nehor said: It will happen but probably not on a large scale. That actually reminds me. I offered to take some of the valuable stuff out of the chapel for a while since I have room to store it inside without putting it in a garage and no kids that can break anything. I should follow up. We do have a rotation of driving by the chapel too. Are you armed?
mfbukowski Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 On 3/22/2020 at 10:42 AM, The Nehor said: New York requested military help. They have over 10,000 cases including an outbreak in a jail. That is more than all of France. It is important not to panic though. This does not mean martial law or military enforced quarantines. It is probably more a need for manpower. They can provide bodies to do things like disinfecting buildings, assist in food distribution, maintain order at testing locations And hospitals, and the like. This is more akin to activating the national guard in a hurricane situation. I'm talking about civil liberties. I'm talking about cops who are probably more likely to be infected, giving tickets to those who aren't. I'm talking about long shots on TV of "crowded " beaches which look wide open to me. You put 20 people on a beach and then take it with a telephoto lens from far away and every thing looks compressed. It's more Panic inducing than helpful. As so we have runs on toilet paper? Toilet paper? Really?
The Nehor Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, mfbukowski said: I'm talking about civil liberties. I'm talking about cops who are probably more likely to be infected, giving tickets to those who aren't. I'm talking about long shots on TV of "crowded " beaches which look wide open to me. You put 20 people on a beach and then take it with a telephoto lens from far away and every thing looks compressed. It's more Panic inducing than helpful. As so we have runs on toilet paper? Toilet paper? Really? If civil liberties are not resumed when it is over I will worry. 2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Are you armed? Nope. Unless you count my fists.
Bernard Gui Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: I'm talking about civil liberties. I'm talking about cops who are probably more likely to be infected, giving tickets to those who aren't. I'm talking about long shots on TV of "crowded " beaches which look wide open to me. You put 20 people on a beach and then take it with a telephoto lens from far away and every thing looks compressed. It's more Panic inducing than helpful. As so we have runs on toilet paper? Toilet paper? Really? Sister Gui just got off the daily tele-conference with her school faculty. They have been assigned to run daycare for first responders, including law enforcement, EMTs, firefighters, health care, etc. The teachers and staff are being asked to "sacrifice" to help the first responders. I understand the need, but it makes no sense to me to get a bunch of kids together whose parents may be carriers, and then send them home to their families at the end of a day of unenforceable social distancing, not to mention the exposure to the faculty and staff and their families. Perhaps I am not seeing the big picture. Sister Gui is exempt because she is over 65 and she has me (a certified geezer) at home. Don't tell anyone I said that. Edited March 24, 2020 by Bernard Gui 2
Bernard Gui Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, The Nehor said: If civil liberties are not resumed when it is over I will worry. Nope. Unless you count my fists. Don't bring fists to a fight unless the other guy only has fists and doesn't know how to use them. No baseball bats, bear spray, nothing? How would you enforce security? Call law enforcement? What would you do if you owned a business that was being looted? Serious question. Edited March 24, 2020 by Bernard Gui
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