whistleblower on Church finances

[california boy]

I just read a similar article about this in the San Francisco paper

 

[ttribe]

22 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

"In a declaration signed under penalty of perjury, Nielsen urges the IRS to strip the nonprofit of its tax-exempt status and alleges that Ensign could owe billions in taxes. He is seeking a reward from the IRS, which offers whistleblowers a cut of unpaid taxes that it recovers."    And there is it.  HAHAHA.  He is a concerned citizen.  Right. He wants to get rich.

He only receives something if his allegations are supported by the investigation. Think about that for a little while. 

[Duncan]

apparently there is a video

 

[Michael Sudworth]

I am absolutely devastated at this level of deception that has been carried on for so many years.

I phoned all of my adult children tonight, instructing them not to pay any further tithing until President Nelson makes a comment why the Church has amassed 100 Billion dollars by misappropriating sacred tithing funds.

[carbon dioxide]

25 minutes ago, ttribe said:

He only receives something if his allegations are supported by the investigation. Think about that for a little while. 

Ok I thought about it.  He wants to get rich.

[strappinglad]

I wonder how many times the Church has been audited  by the IRS over the last 25 years ? Were no red flags ever raised over this issue ? 

Perhaps the IRS took lessons on investigating from the F ….

[carbon dioxide]

7 minutes ago, Michael Sudworth said:

I am absolutely devastated at this level of deception that has been carried on for so many years.

I phoned all of my adult children tonight, instructing them not to pay any further tithing until President Nelson makes a comment why the Church has amassed 100 Billion dollars by misappropriating sacred tithing funds.

Don't you think that that allegation has to be proven first? 

[carbon dioxide]

40 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

And when the US government fails, how much will the church’s portfolio be worth do you think? Serious question. 

Hopefully it will cash out before then.

[Gillebre]

I believe here lay the next great test of faith for members of the Church. Satan will spread lies abroad in the earth, as in the Book of Mormon, to weaken and stagnate the mission of the Church with increasing fervor.

I believe that seeds of doubt planted by incessant mass media, and not favorable to the Gospel, will start to bear greater evil fruit in the coming years.

 

[PacMan]

8 minutes ago, Michael Sudworth said:

I am absolutely devastated at this level of deception that has been carried on for so many years.

I phoned all of my adult children tonight, instructing them not to pay any further tithing until President Nelson makes a comment why the Church has amassed 100 Billion dollars by misappropriating sacred tithing funds.

Phone your adult children and let them know that the church removed the word gullible from the dictionary.

[carbon dioxide]

48 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Classic ad-hominem. 
 

Edited to add: Also you will note that he has skin in the game. Last I heard penalty for perjury was jail time. 

Well perhaps he will give it to charity.  PERHAPS.  Time will tell

[SeekingUnderstanding]

2 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Hopefully it will cash out before then.

And cash will be worth what exactly?

[PacMan]

Why is it that weasels actually tend to look like weasels?

I watched until I couldn't stomach this guy's tin-foil conspiracy theories that were completely divorced from any laws.

One day, I hope the church starts holding these knuckleheads accountable.  If not for defamation, then for a complete abuse of air quotes.

If the "church" did something wrong, I'd expect that they'd make it right and then hold responsible those professionals they relied on for bad advice.  Not sure why this would affect someone's testimony.

Edited December 17, 2019 by PacMan

[10THAmendment]

I’d venture to guess that this kind of stuff is why the church shut off transparency and handles all finances behind closed doors. 
 

Anyone who thought the church didn’t use tithing funds for business endeavors had their heads willfully buried in the sand. 

[carbon dioxide]

2 hours ago, mtomm said:

Loss of trust

Loss of trust how.  Now if church leaders are using the funds to buy a bunch of Ferrari and Lamborghinis YES.  Even IF these claims are true and I sort of doubt it based on the figure.  (I am sure the church has billions but what are the odds that the Church reaches the magical 100 billion marks and then this comes out?.   It sounds like a made up figure to me) what is the church doing or planning to do with it.  It is smart to have large reserves for bad times.  Any large organization that spends as much as they take in are going to be in big trouble if things go south.  They will have to either go into massive debt or sell off stuff to stay afloat.  I am not interested in the dollar amount, whatever it actually is.  I am interested in the plans for it.

[bsjkki]

6 hours ago, PacMan said:

Why is it that weasels actually tend to look like weasels?

I couldn't stomach the tin-foil conspiracy theories after watching this guy fail to connect them to any laws.

One day, I hope the church starts holding these knuckleheads accountable.  If not for defamation, then for a complete abuse of air quotes.

Thank you...can you say 'smarmy?” I did not find him credible, he has limited knowledge, has a self interest incentive and makes ridiculous arguments. The church is rich so you should not pay your tithing, is not a new line of attack against the church. Also, are earnings on tithing funds, tithing funds. I view principal and earnings on principal quite differently.

Edited December 17, 2019 by bsjkki

[Benjamin Seeker]

Just now, carbon dioxide said:

Loss of trust how.  Now if church leaders are using the funds to buy a bunch of Ferrari and Lamborghinis YES.  Even IF these claims are true and I sort of doubt it based on the figure.  (I am sure the church has billions but what are the odds that the Church reaches the magical 100 billion marks and then this comes out?.   It sounds like a made up figure to me) what is the church doing or planning to do with it.  It is smart to have large reserves for bad times.  Any large organization that spends as much as they take in are going to be in big trouble if things go south.  They will have to either go into massive debt or sell off stuff to stay afloat.  I am not interested in the dollar amount, whatever it actually is.  I am interested in the plans for it.

Propping up for profit ventures is one of the allegations. When the church does that with profit made from invested tithing funds, there can be justifiable loss of trust.

[carbon dioxide]

If the Church is really rich, one would think the Church has enough lawyers, tax attorneys and accountant to know what is legal and what is not.  So at this point we either have a church that employs a bunch of idiots who do not know the law and are advising church leaders horribly or an individual who either is making things up or does not see the whole picture and is not informed well.  Given the fact that there is no evidence of any individuals in the church sucking off funds to enrich themselves personally, there is not personal gain to purposely violate the law so why do it? 

[bsjkki]

20 minutes ago, Michael Sudworth said:

I am absolutely devastated at this level of deception that has been carried on for so many years.

I phoned all of my adult children tonight, instructing them not to pay any further tithing until President Nelson makes a comment why the Church has amassed 100 Billion dollars by misappropriating sacred tithing funds.

You know, as a member, I always knew it wasn't my job to decide how tithing funds should be appropriated. In my personal life, I've been told to save for a rainy day and also accumulate 20 years worth of finances for my retirement. I guess, in your opinion, the church should spend all their money every year and not make any earnings on the tithing they receive. Is that what you are saying? Did you watch the video? This guy is not credible...he has an agenda with possibly a huge payday. He makes assumptions based on very limited knowledge of all the facts. IMO, I do not want the government involved in any way with tithing funds. What you tax, you can control. I give my ten percent and it is gone from my mind to be used as the church leaders deem the most necessary. There is no evidence of fraud or personal enrichment because of these funds. 

[gtaggart]

So some of you are really buying the idea that the Brethren are scamming the members? Really? That there is not more to the story than what Br. Nielsen blew through his whistle? Oh well.

[carbon dioxide]

13 minutes ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

Propping up for profit ventures is one of the allegations. When the church does that with profit made from invested tithing funds, there can be justifiable loss of trust.

Lets say that this allegation is true.  What negative is it that the church uses my tithing money to invest in a for profit fund?  If the money is not being pocketed by a person to buy cars and homes, is that not good?  The church is taking my money and amplify it.  Now in that case they should pay tax on that profit.  Got to stay with the law.  If they are not paying tax, they need to pay the tax along with interest not paid.  My only loss of trust with my tithing money is if its going to buy cars, homes, jets, and other things to enrich individuals personally.  If the church is banking my tithing money for a future period of trouble, that is good.  We should all have a good savings account to protect us when bad times hit. And bad times will hit at some point.  This bull market and economy will not go up forever.  If the George Albert Smith prophecy is correct and at some point we will see another depression far worse than the Great Depression of 1930s, then the Church better build up its position as much as possible.

Edited December 17, 2019 by carbon dioxide

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Not to mention bailing out Mutual life:....................

I thought it was Beneficial Life, if it was indeed bailed out.

[strappinglad]

Would that we followed the Israelites when they brought their tithes to the temple and watched the priests burn them up, literally go up in smoke. There is a lesson there about how to regard the tithes given to the Lord. 

Now Fast offerings, humanitarian funds, education funds etc. maybe you can been more critical, but tithing not so much. 

Most people , if they could retire at 65 ,will need enough resources to last them until 80...90...? In other words they need 15-25 years worth of support taking into account low inflation and stable markets. Good luck with that. Be Prepared  should not just apply to scouts. 

[Robert F. Smith]

57 minutes ago, ttribe said:

He only receives something if his allegations are supported by the investigation. Think about that for a little while. 

A nice retirement, if and only if all the allegations are true.

However, all of this merely points up the need for transparency.  If all this were a matter of record, and on the up and up, no whistleblower could do any damage.

[bsjkki]

I'm still trying to figure out why I should feel the church misled me by turning a portion of tithing dollars into a reserve fund for a rainy day. Sounds like smart money management and what the church teaches the members to do with their own funds. This guy doesn't have all the facts of the bailout money so we will see if anything was done inappropriately but I think the church using earning on this fund to keep from having beneficial life go bankrupt and leaving its policy holders high and dry, was a good thing. I think the scandal of a 'wealthy' church stiffing policy holders would be worse. Also, the church has an interest in downtown development and rejuvenation...I wonder how these 'bailout' dollars were categorized and how exactly how they were spent. I'm not sure the church's accountants are totally inept so will reserve all judgement.

Edited December 17, 2019 by bsjkki