Church Releases First Book of Mormon Video

[JAHS]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Do you mean is that literally what Lehi beheld, or is Lehi himself speaking figuratively to convey what he actually saw?

Either one. He goes on to tell of seeing Christ and the twelve apostles so it appears to be the kind of vision which includes seeing into the future.

[katherine the great]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

I don't see anything cool about men who reject the teachings of God or who don't put in the effort to find out what God actually teaches when they don't know for sure for themselves.

Whining, whimpering, stubborn obstinate neanderthals (people born in Europe a long time ago) is an image that springs to my mind when I consider men, or males, who act like Laman or Lemuel.

That's an insult to the memory of all good Neanderthals. 😊

I have to agree that if Laman and Lemuel were presented as attractive and charming, it would make more sense that they were able to lead so many people away.

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

I think it was literal to Lehi. Is there a real throne? Probably not. Unless SpaceShip Celestial Earth has a captains chair I see no reason for a literal throne. Lehi recognizes it as symbol of power and glory, so that’s what the Lord most likely showed him.

I expect there is a real throne. Maybe lots of them.

[JAHS]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

12 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

I think it was literal to Lehi. Is there a real throne? Probably not. Unless SpaceShip Celestial Earth has a captains chair I see no reason for a literal throne. Lehi recognizes it as symbol of power and glory, so that’s what the Lord most likely showed him.

I expect there is a real throne. Maybe lots of them.

When I have a dream, as many visions are, and I see someone sitting in a chair I really mean I see someone sitting in an actual chair. 

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, JAHS said:

When I have a dream, as many visions are, and I see someone sitting in a chair I really mean I see someone sitting in an actual chair. 

Unless God just floats, why wouldn't he have a chair?  And if any meetings are held or observed in a vision, seems like this would automatically be seen as a throne.

[Ahab]

13 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

That's an insult to the memory of all good Neanderthals. 😊

I have to agree that if Laman and Lemuel were presented as attractive and charming, it would make more sense that they were able to lead so many people away.

Laman and Lemuel only led some people from Jerusalem away from the Lord, and we both know what most of the people from Jerusalem were like back then.  Not too hard to do even if they weren't particularly physically attractive.

But sure if it helps you go ahead and imagine them with a flashy smile and a wink and a nod like they're saying: "Hey come over here and follow us why doncha!"   You don't want to follow Nephi just because you think he is good looking do ya?"

[JAHS]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

7 minutes ago, JAHS said:

When I have a dream, as many visions are, and I see someone sitting in a chair I really mean I see someone sitting in an actual chair. 

Unless God just floats, why wouldn't he have a chair?  And if any meetings are held or observed in a vision, seems like this would automatically be seen as a throne.

Of course that chair I see in my dream doesn't actually exist, so I am wondering if visions we or prophets have are interpretations for our minds that we can relate to?
Perhaps God doesn't actually sit on a throne but the  vision creates that image in our minds to represent that He rules over all like a king. 
Then again there could be an actual throne for Him to sit in since He is a resurrected being of flesh and bone. 

[Ahab]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Unless God just floats, why wouldn't he have a chair?  And if any meetings are held or observed in a vision, seems like this would automatically be seen as a throne.

Right now I call my desk chair my throne.  It is my seat of power, whatever power I have.  It doesn't have any gold or jewels on it but it's the man sitting on it that makes it a throne, rather than the throne that makes the man sitting on it a ruler.

[SettingDogStar]

18 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Right now I call my desk chair my throne.  It is my seat of power, whatever power I have.  It doesn't have any gold or jewels on it but it's the man sitting on it that makes it a throne, rather than the throne that makes the man sitting on it a ruler.

It just comes down to the idea of WHY God would need a throne? I don’t think he does, just for us.

[Ahab]

6 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

It just comes down to the idea of WHY God would need a throne? I don’t think he does, just for us.

Need a throne? I suppose he has a "seat of power" wherever he is and whether or not he is standing or sitting.  And who knows maybe he never has and never will choose to sit down on it, other than those times when some person saw him sitting on it.

The rest of the time that would leave him the option of either standing or laying down.  For eternity.

So while I may not know if he ever sits down I can tell you that I sure plan to do some more sitting over the course of eternity, even after I am resurrected with my perfect body.

What you will choose to do is up to you and your own options, I suppose.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Ahab

[Scott Lloyd]

52 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Either one. He goes on to tell of seeing Christ and the twelve apostles so it appears to be the kind of vision which includes seeing into the future.

I think it’s par for the course for a prophetic vision to peer into the future. That’s why I’m not so eager to jump on the “deutero-Isaiah” bandwagon just because the reign of Cyrus the great was foretold by Isaiah. Foreseeing future events is what prophets do, for crying out loud. 

[Scott Lloyd]

42 minutes ago, Calm said:

Unless God just floats, why wouldn't he have a chair?  And if any meetings are held or observed in a vision, seems like this would automatically be seen as a throne.

Why wouldn’t God just float? He can do anything, right?

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Why wouldn’t God just float? He can do anything, right?

Because rooms would be boring with nothing in it?

It starts sounding like drifting on clouds.

If Heaven has mansions, surely there must be something in them.  Otherwise it would be much more enjoyable imo to just have everything opened to nature.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Calm

[Ahab]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Why wouldn’t God just float? He can do anything, right?

Do you think he could be so stubborn that he absolutely refuses to sit down except for those times when some person needs to see him sitting down for some reason?

Do you think he could have appeared to whoever saw him sitting as standing instead but he just chose to appear sitting down even though he really didn't need to sit?  

Why would he do that?  Do you think God could ever act funny?

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Because rooms would be boring with nothing in it?

It starts sounding like drifting on clouds.

If Heaven has mansions, surely there must be something in them.  Otherwise it would be much more enjoyable imo to just have everything opened to nature.

IF heaven has mansions?  Can't we say for sure yet that yes there are some mansions in heaven?

Instead of trying to imagine what his house or mansion is like I like to try to imagine what I would like mine to be like.  I like building and if I have the option I'm going to choose to build mine myself, maybe with some help for some things.

I can't imagine having no particular place to call my home where my wife and I will be able to raise our children.  A place with toys and places to relax and unwind from all of my labors.  And a place where I can work out of my home as well.

Nothing too terribly fancy but nice and with plenty of room for everything and everyone who ever wants to come for a visit.

[Calm]

It was more a "if/then" statement (given we are taught there are mansions, it is logical there is furniture in them rather than empty spaces).

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

It was more a "if/then" statement (given we are taught there are mansions, it is logical there is furniture in them rather than empty spaces).

Something like the furniture in the celestial room of each temple, I imagine, if not something even nicer than we know about right now.  

Nothing gaudy, though.  Sheesh.  Have you seen some of those really expensive reciiners they try to sell people these days  big and bulky and not what I would say is in good taste.

Maybe some kind of recliner, though, and maybe some big screens where everything going on in the universe can be seen from some kind of security monitoring stations.  I mean, why not.  Even if he doesn't really "need" it.

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Something like the furniture in the celestial room of each temple, I imagine, if not something even nicer than we know about right now.  

Nothing gaudy, though.  Sheesh.  Have you seen some of those really expensive reciiners they try to sell people these days  big and bulky and not what I would say is in good taste.

Maybe some kind of recliner, though, and maybe some big screens where everything going on in the universe can be seen from some kind of security monitoring stations.  I mean, why not.  Even if he doesn't really "need" it.

I prefer holographic projections rather than screens.

[Calm]

32 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Something like the furniture in the celestial room of each temple, I imagine, if not something even nicer than we know about right now.  

Nothing gaudy, though.  Sheesh.  Have you seen some of those really expensive reciiners they try to sell people these days  big and bulky and not what I would say is in good taste.

Maybe some kind of recliner, though, and maybe some big screens where everything going on in the universe can be seen from some kind of security monitoring stations.  I mean, why not.  Even if he doesn't really "need" it.

I prefer holographic projections rather than screens.

That way the gorgeous woodwork, tapestries, and other fine art on the walls is not detracted from.

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

I prefer holographic projections rather than screens.

That way the gorgeous woodwork, tapestries, and other fine art on the walls is not detracted from.

Yes, an improvement on my idea.  Well done. 

Maybe something like an omnimax theatre where the projections appear over our heads, if we want, or right in front of us, if we would rather see that.  And all by voice command, if we want, or by just thinking about whatever we want to see in reality.

[The Nehor]

While the throne debate is kind of silly why not have a throne? Sure, God probably does not need one but maybe he wants one. One of the advantages of being God is if you want it you can pretty much have it. If the physical resurrection is an advantage then physicality is an advantage probably because it can bring joy, pleasure, and happiness. So God can eat chocolate, surf, watch a star explode from nearby, lie in a hammock, ride a horse, pet an animal, and sit in a throne. Why would he? For FUN!!!!!

Edited September 21, 2019 by The Nehor

[SettingDogStar]

36 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

While the throne debate is kind of silly why not have a throne? Sure, God probably does not need one but maybe he wants one. One of the advantages of being God is if you want it you can pretty much have it. If the physical resurrection is an advantage then physicality is an advantage probably because it can bring joy, pleasure, and happiness. So God can eat chocolate, surf, watch a star explode from nearby, lie in a hammock, ride a horse, pet an animal, and sit in a throne. Why would he? For FUN!!!!!

I’ve read that the reason Heaven is a great Urim and Thummim is because those who can use one can use it to bring forth anything. Want a world of plains, fields, and hills? You got it! Forests and mountains? There it is! And because of the power granted to Gods (as opposed to prophets who can seemingly only use the stones to “see”) the conjured worlds and objects can be physically interacted with.

It really makes it a perfect paradise.

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Because rooms would be boring with nothing in it?

It starts sounding like drifting on clouds.

If Heaven has mansions, surely there must be something in them.  Otherwise it would be much more enjoyable imo to just have everything opened to nature.

That's my point. God can choose to have a throne or not have one; He can dwell in an enclosure or be in the open. He is not limited by what we imagine His circumstances to be.

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, Ahab said:

I don't see anything cool about men who reject the teachings of God or who don't put in the effort to find out what God actually teaches when they don't know for sure for themselves.

Whining, whimpering, stubborn obstinate neanderthals (people born in Europe a long time ago) is an image that springs to my mind when I consider men, or males, who act like Laman or Lemuel.

Ahhh....Hollywood stereotypes.... 

I’m talking about movie actors in Book of Mormon videos. Type casting? The Look. All that stuff. I’m reminded of the Arnold Friberg illustrations that came straight out of Central Casting.

Just engaged in some wishful thinking. Who knows what Lehi and his family looked like?

Edited September 21, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[MiserereNobis]

If I were to write an academic paper on this video, perhaps it would be called:

The Razor's Edge:

The Ideology of Facial Hair in Official Video Depictions of the Book of Mormon

Why is Nephi, the good son, clean shaven? And why does the other good son hardly have any facial hair? (but he has a little, so we know he's not the hero). And the bad brothers nice dark beards? Yes, Lehi has a beard, but his is grey, one of age and wisdom (perhaps mirroring the beards of previous of LDS prophets prior to the beard ban?). And as to hair length, Nephi has the shortest hair of them all.

All humor aside, Lehi is presented as a prophet without a hierarchal role, yet he still prophesizes something that is meant for all, not just his family or the realm of his responsibility. This seems in contrast to the current LDS view, where the prophet is part of the hierarchy, actually at the top of the hierarchy, whose realm is greater than his family. Isn't there something subversive about Lehi in the context of his religion at that time? He wasn't at the top yet he still prophesized for everyone in Jerusalem and I'm guessing beyond.

I feel like I can't really blame the bad brothers. Imagine a similar situation today. You're LDS and you live in Salt Lake City. Your father goes out on the streets and preaches that he has had a vision that Salt Lake City will be destroyed. He is not part of the hierarchy of the LDS church, but he claims that he has seen God and has been told this. And then he makes you leave your nice house and travel off somewhere without you knowing the end destination. Nothing in the video shows that they have done anything wrong except question the vision of their father.

I'll also say that this appears directed at LDS audiences, which makes perfect sense and isn't a criticism. I just wanted to acknowledge it. From little things (like the numbers of "even" used in the dialogue, something that this board has shown me is LDS vernacular), to the focus on drinking -- the first sin we are shown is some drunkards, and the bad brothers want to keep the gold and silver to drink.

What y'all need is some independent artists to create LDS masterpieces, such as Dante for Catholicism