Church Releases First Book of Mormon Video

[Robert F. Smith]

On 9/20/2019 at 1:47 PM, Ahab said:

He did mention something about eating jerky, though.  Meat the "Lord" made sweet that wasn't cooked.  Didn't say what flavor it was, though, or what it had in it, so I'm thinking maybe teriyaki or peppered or just "plain" like what I usually eat.

With maybe a carrot or some corn on the cob or some other veggie every now and then.

I suppose we'll probably see some of that in one of the next videos.

The text makes clear that they were hunting game along the way, and then there is camel's and goat's milk.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 9/20/2019 at 3:03 PM, stemelbow said:

I"m not a qualified critic of such things, but I'm feeling like you and I watched different things.  All I saw was cheesy, low-productions value, bad acting, and something that was really painful to watch.  Ah well, we're all different, I guess.  

I agree.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 9/20/2019 at 4:52 PM, Ahab said:

IF heaven has mansions?  Can't we say for sure yet that yes there are some mansions in heaven?

Instead of trying to imagine what his house or mansion is like I like to try to imagine what I would like mine to be like.  I like building and if I have the option I'm going to choose to build mine myself, maybe with some help for some things.

I can't imagine having no particular place to call my home where my wife and I will be able to raise our children.  A place with toys and places to relax and unwind from all of my labors.  And a place where I can work out of my home as well.

Nothing too terribly fancy but nice and with plenty of room for everything and everyone who ever wants to come for a visit.

What would be a "mansion" to a god?

I recall reading a science fiction story about 60 years ago in which astronauts landed on a wonderfully green planet with rows and rows of carefully tended vegetation covering the whole planet, but no person present.  Every possible type of vegetation, but not a soul present.  They finally concluded that this was a kind of nursery for a god, from whence he took plants to his various planets.  Could planets be mansions?

[Robert F. Smith]

23 hours ago, Calm said:

I prefer holographic projections rather than screens.

I just heard that the late Whitney Houston is going to tour with a full company of dancers, etc., as a hologram.  No lie.

[Robert F. Smith]

21 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Ahhh....Hollywood stereotypes.... 

I’m talking about movie actors in Book of Mormon videos. Type casting? The Look. All that stuff. I’m reminded of the Arnold Friberg illustrations that came straight out of Central Casting.

That's what Cecil B. DeMille did with his "Ten Commandments," with Yule Brynner and Charlton Heston eating the scenery.  And the public loved it.

21 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Just engaged in some wishful thinking. Who knows what Lehi and his family looked like?.....................

Actually we could depict them as archeologists would according to time and place.  Israelites in Jerusalem about 600 BC can be well imagined based on what we know of their DNA.

[Robert F. Smith]

19 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

If I were to write an academic paper on this video, perhaps it would be called:

The Razor's Edge:

The Ideology of Facial Hair in Official Video Depictions of the Book of Mormon

Why is Nephi, the good son, clean shaven? And why does the other good son hardly have any facial hair? (but he has a little, so we know he's not the hero). And the bad brothers nice dark beards? Yes, Lehi has a beard, but his is grey, one of age and wisdom (perhaps mirroring the beards of previous of LDS prophets prior to the beard ban?). And as to hair length, Nephi has the shortest hair of them all.

This harks back to the old cowboy genre of films in which the good guy always rode a white horse (Roy Rogers) and the bad guy a black one.  These are tired stereotypes.

19 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

All humor aside, Lehi is presented as a prophet without a hierarchal role, yet he still prophesizes something that is meant for all, not just his family or the realm of his responsibility. This seems in contrast to the current LDS view, where the prophet is part of the hierarchy, actually at the top of the hierarchy, whose realm is greater than his family. Isn't there something subversive about Lehi in the context of his religion at that time? He wasn't at the top yet he still prophesized for everyone in Jerusalem and I'm guessing beyond.

I feel like I can't really blame the bad brothers. Imagine a similar situation today. You're LDS and you live in Salt Lake City. Your father goes out on the streets and preaches that he has had a vision that Salt Lake City will be destroyed. He is not part of the hierarchy of the LDS church, but he claims that he has seen God and has been told this. And then he makes you leave your nice house and travel off somewhere without you knowing the end destination. Nothing in the video shows that they have done anything wrong except question the vision of their father.

Jeremiah and other prophets of that time were harshly critical of the King and his court advisors for favoring Egypt, rather than making a deal with the Babylonians.  The chief priest and his fellows at the Temple were aligned with the King, so were also under condemnation by Jeremiah (himself a priest, as were his two scribes).  The hierarchy was in apostasy.  When that happens, as it did in Joseph Smith's time, one must inveigh against it.  Even though the cost may be high.  Since God wanted Lehi and family to go to the New World, he used that opportunity to get them out of Jerusalem.

19 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I'll also say that this appears directed at LDS audiences, which makes perfect sense and isn't a criticism.

That is clearly not the intent.  Rather it is certainly intended for the general public as a missionary tool.

19 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I just wanted to acknowledge it. From little things (like the numbers of "even" used in the dialogue, something that this board has shown me is LDS vernacular), to the focus on drinking -- the first sin we are shown is some drunkards, and the bad brothers want to keep the gold and silver to drink..............................

You left out the prostitutes who accosted Lehi.  This largely misses the point of the prophetic critique of the Jerusalem hierarchy.

[Robert F. Smith]

19 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

This is demonstrably false. It’s not a problem, though. True church doesn’t equal good videos. Unless you think so..?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_3J6Go5Ng (Why Christian Movies are BAD | The Problem with Christian Media - part 2) 

On the other hand, I can recall at least a dozen excellent films made about Catholicism, which were made by professional film makers, not by the RC Church.  They were usually based on best-selling books.

 

Edited September 21, 2019 by Robert F. Smith

[Robert F. Smith]

9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

..........................

Finally, the idiomatic use of “even” among Latter-day Saints — mainly among older Church leaders — is ultimately drawn from phrasing in the King James Version of the Bible. Since the phrasing in the English version of the Book of Mormon is consistent with that Bible version, it stands to reason this “even” idiom would be present in a motion picture depicting Book of Mormon events. 

That is why a professional writer should have been hired to adapt the book to film.  Someone who actually understands cinema.

[Robert F. Smith]

9 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Since that would have nothing to do with Lehi, his family, or his people, I would say nowhere. 

So you would have them exclude the book of Ether?

[Scott Lloyd]

25 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

That is why a professional writer should have been hired to adapt the book to film.  Someone who actually understands cinema.

I guess I’m a hayseed, because it doesn’t bother me. 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

That's what Cecil B. DeMille did with his "Ten Commandments," with Yule Brynner and Charlton Heston eating the scenery.  And the public loved it.

Actually we could depict them as archeologists would according to time and place.  Israelites in Jerusalem about 600 BC can be well imagined based on what we know of their DNA.

Yes, but we can’t know what individuals looked like.

[blueglass]

I'm glad the church invests in these projects.  Looks fun to watch - just hope more will pick up the book and read as well. 

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

That's what Cecil B. DeMille did with his "Ten Commandments," with Yule Brynner and Charlton Heston eating the scenery.  And the public loved it.

Actually we could depict them as archeologists would according to time and place.  Israelites in Jerusalem about 600 BC can be well imagined based on what we know of their DNA.

Heston as Brigham Young and Charles Coburn as Porter Rockwell..... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/1995/7/23/19183965/violent-avenging-angel-out-on-video-in-time-for-24th

Edited September 22, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[SettingDogStar]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

What would be a "mansion" to a god?

I recall reading a science fiction story about 60 years ago in which astronauts landed on a wonderfully green planet with rows and rows of carefully tended vegetation covering the whole planet, but no person present.  Every possible type of vegetation, but not a soul present.  They finally concluded that this was a kind of nursery for a god, from whence he took plants to his various planets.  Could planets be mansions?

Sounds like what Brigham mentioned about how all the animals and plants from this planet were brought here from other planets.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I just heard that the late Whitney Houston is going to tour with a full company of dancers, etc., as a hologram.  No lie.

That is rather creepy if they are going to program it for new stuff as opposed to use old performances transferred to the new technology.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Yes, but we can’t know what individuals looked like.

I was thinking more of the general physiology of Israelites in that time and place.  Charlton Heston was not a Jew and looked nothing like an actual Moses of that time and place.  It would be nice to have a touch of realism in such historical films.  The public doesn't know that, so doesn't care.  Thus, Arnold Friberg can portray BofM characters as Nordic, Viking warriors, with nary a complaint, and people accepted Swede Max Von Sydow as Jesus in "The Greatest Story Ever Told."  At least in Jewish films like "Yentle," or "Fiddler on the Roof," we get some authenticity.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

That is rather creepy if they are going to program it for new stuff as opposed to use old performances transferred to the new technology.

Just the old stuff, but it still sells.

[Calm]

1 minute ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Just the old stuff, but it still sells.

That is like colorizing old films, I suppose. 

[Anakin7]

    I watch it on my laptop and the words that were being spoken and the mouth movements they did were not in sync at all. There were periods of when there mouth's were not moving yet words were being spoken and mouth's were moving but no words were heard. The acting was okay but it did not much for me, not enough emotion and feeling of the characters they portrayed. 

The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine

Washing My Garment Robe In His Blood

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

He Died To Make Man Holy

Anakin7

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I guess I’m a hayseed, because it doesn’t bother me. 

I think that we ought to put our best foot forward in such a missionary effort, for the same reason that other churches should also do their very best:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_3J6Go5Ng&list=RD50_3J6Go5Ng&start_radio=1&t=29  .  It is less about us than it is about the real value of our efforts -- spending tithing money.

 

[Bernard Gui]

3 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I was thinking more of the general physiology of Israelites in that time and place.  Charlton Heston was not a Jew and looked nothing like an actual Moses of that time and place.  It would be nice to have a touch of realism in such historical films.  The public doesn't know that, so doesn't care.  Thus, Arnold Friberg can portray BofM characters as Nordic, Viking warriors, with nary a complaint, and people accepted Swede Max Von Sydow as Jesus in "The Greatest Story Ever Told."  At least in Jewish films like "Yentle," or "Fiddler on the Roof," we get some authenticity.

Indeed. All those gringos who portrayed Native Americans and Latinos, too.

My big blue seminary copy of the Book of Mormon featured Friberg’s paintings. I think I have mentioned before that those brought one of my best friends into the Church. He and I were into the newly published books of Robert Howard’s Conan stories. My friend was attending seminary with his LDS girlfriend. Those paintings were right out of Conan and my friend was mesmerized by them. Still active, by the way. God moved in mysterious ways....

[Hamba Tuhan]

7 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

That is why a professional writer should have been hired to adapt the book to film. 

Most writers can’t do it. Very few book-based films successfully capture the meat and intent of the text. Some just slavishly follow the narrative scene-by-scene, creating something only preexistent fans love. Others create a separate work altogether. I can only think of two book adaptations that didn’t fall into one of these traps. 

For now, I’m reserving judgement. But so far I’m genuinely gobsmacked that the Church took this on.  As I noted above, I was expecting didactic vignettes. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Most writers can’t do it. Very few book-based films successfully capture the meat and intent of the text. Some just slavishly follow the narrative scene-by-scene, creating something only preexistent fans love. Others create a separate work altogether. I can only think of two book adaptations that didn’t fall into one of these traps. 

........................

Not true at all.  There are excellent adaptations of various books, along with many horrendous failures (hack writers are a big problem).  Hollywood can do some excellent work.

I have read a number of books and plays which have gone on to be made into wonderful films.  Franco Zefferelli did some fine versions of Shakespeare's plays ("Taming of the Shrew," and "Romeo & Juliet").  Both "The Exorcist" and "Red October" were well adapted.  "Grapes of Wrath," "Gone With the Wind," "Shane," and many other works were legendary.  The Church should have allowed professionals to handle this.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_3J6Go5Ng&list=RD50_3J6Go5Ng&start_radio=1&t=29 . 

 

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Indeed. All those gringos who portrayed Native Americans and Latinos, too....................

One of my favorite films is "Last of the Mohicans" (1992), which used actual Amerinds.

[Dan McClellan]

On 9/20/2019 at 11:54 AM, LoudmouthMormon said:

- Lehi's "house" - sort of small, compared to the image I've had in my head for years, of his household consisting of various extended relatives and servants and hired hands and whatnot.

His house is actually pretty large according to what houses were actually like around the time period. That was one of my comments after seeing the video. The initial wide shot of Jerusalem is very, very accurate, but then they get to Lehi's house and he goes in and sits down on a large sectional in front of his coffee table at the front of the house (where the animals and the storage would have been) and it's way off. The shape of the house is in keeping with the traditional four-room/pillared house, but the size is on the larger end, and the interior is not accurate. Attached is a reconstruction of what a standard bet av (household) would have looked like, as well as the four-roomed/pillared house.