High Councilman arrested for filming a woman getting undressed

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

There are many texts on cognitive science which account for and acknowledge such biases caused by political and cultural differences.  But we conveniently ignore them

Not in my part of the world, we don't. Increasingly, the rest of the world is tired of American 'social science' pretending it's something universal when it's not even an accurate representation of the actual cultural diversity in the US.

[JAHS]

Apparently he was  "fired" for secretly photographing woman inside H&M dressing room 
I didn't know we could get "fired" from our church callings.

[mfbukowski]

34 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Not in my part of the world, we don't. Increasingly, the rest of the world is tired of American 'social science' pretending it's something universal when it's not even an accurate representation of the actual cultural diversity in the US.

Just to carry this one more step in relevance to our faith- understanding this precise point about science in general, is why religion has nothing to fear from "science".

There is no such thing as "objectivity" - every human utterance is tied first and primarily to very basic human motivations and passions.  Yet religion is pronounced as "irrational" when it is just a human activity like all the others, with its base in what is most important to us individually and socially.

How many scientific discoveries have been motivated primarily by human "irrational" needs?

Navigation requires astronomy.  Curing cancer requires scientific medical research.  What was the motivation to go to the moon? And how much science resulted from that?

Human needs drive human behavior

Edited August 21, 2019 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

16 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Apparently he was  "fired" for secretly photographing woman inside H&M dressing room 
I didn't know we could get "fired" from our church callings.

I guess that is the presumption since others often pay people to perform church activities in their denomination.   I knew an LDS person who had a  well-paying job playing organ for a local Protestant congregation.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

Apparently he was  "fired" for secretly photographing woman inside H&M dressing room 
I didn't know we could get "fired" from our church callings.

This is how we do it in my ward:

 

[longview]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I am confused.  How do YOU bait the truth?  Do you know who those three women are?  Do you deny their testimonies?   There are many more who have been victimized by Bubba.  Not only him but Hillary did savage many of them by carrying on a smear campaign against them.  Something up your alley.

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, longview said:

I am confused.  How do YOU bait the truth?  Do you know who those three women are?  Do you deny their testimonies?   There are many more who have been victimized by Bubba.  Not only him but Hillary did savage many of them by carrying on a smear campaign against them.  Something up your alley.

Please don't make the thread political.  That has nothing to do with the topic.

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, longview said:

I am confused.  How do YOU bait the truth?  Do you know who those three women are?  Do you deny their testimonies?   There are many more who have been victimized by Bubba.  Not only him but Hillary did savage many of them by carrying on a smear campaign against them.  Something up your alley.

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by The Nehor

[longview]

51 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Please don't make the thread political.  That has nothing to do with the topic.

Women being victimized?  Most would say very pertinent.

[Tacenda]

 

This updated news article was released yesterday. They really, really downplay the calling of bishop, nearly throwing them under the bus IMO. Calling them volunteers and leaving out so much as to what the calling truly is.

https://www.ksl.com/article/46622145/local-church-leader-charged-in-dressing-room-camera-incident

"Church spokesman Eric Hawkins said in an email that Murdock served as a high councilor, which is a volunteer position helping with the administration of several local congregations. He also previously served as a bishop of a local congregation, another volunteer position."

Edited August 21, 2019 by Tacenda

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, longview said:

Women being victimized?  Most would say very pertinent.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.  The clintons have nothing to do with the topic.  Please respect my wishes as the OP.  Thanks.

[Tacenda]

Something else that bothers me to no end. This man and his wife were picking up their son from his mission!! 

[provoman]

43 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

 

This updated news article was released yesterday. They really, really downplay the calling of bishop, nearly throwing them under the bus IMO. Calling them volunteers and leaving out so much as to what the calling truly is.

https://www.ksl.com/article/46622145/local-church-leader-charged-in-dressing-room-camera-incident

"Church spokesman Eric Hawkins said in an email that Murdock served as a high councilor, which is a volunteer position helping with the administration of several local congregations. He also previously served as a bishop of a local congregation, another volunteer position."

How would you have presented it? A Bishop is a volunteer, right?

Bishop, in fact every position of service in the Church, is a volunteer position.

 

For reference to cover those who receive living expense, the United States military is all volunteers - who also receive a pay.

Edited August 21, 2019 by provoman

[The Nehor]

17 minutes ago, provoman said:

How would you have presented it? A Bishop is a volunteer, right?

Bishop, in fact every position of service in the Church, is a volunteer position.

 

For reference to cover those who receive living expense, the United States military is all volunteers - who also receive a pay.

While true that is misleading. Saying your military is all volunteer just means you do not have conscription or an active draft. You cannot generalize that. Almost all employees are volunteers using that logic in that they were not compelled to work there and even places with a more compensated clergy are all volunteers.

That said, yes, being a member of the High Council is an uncompensated voluntary position so it is fair to call it volunteer. I would not call an apostle or compensated Seventy a volunteer.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Something else that bothers me to no end. This man and his wife were picking up their son from his mission!! 

Why does that matter? Perverts gotta perv, what errand they were on does not change much.

[bluebell]

16 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Why does that matter? Perverts gotta perv, what errand they were on does not change much.

I agree with Tacenda in that knowing why they were in TN does add an extra level of hypocrisy to the hypocrisy mountain the husband has already built.  It also adds to the feelings of sadness for the family.  Can you imagine having such an experience being the way that your mission ended?  Poor kid.

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 8/20/2019 at 12:46 PM, HappyJackWagon said:

The guy is a serious creeper. Maybe the wife is too, but my first thought was that she wanted to avoid the pain and embarrassment for her husband, herself, and her entire family. Her attempt to "cover it up" was really just an attempt at self-preservation. Who knows what the impact will be to the family re: church, but also financially, and socially.

Some folks just can't even.  There is a type of person out there (typically a mom or wife, but can also sometimes be a male or sibling), that just erects strong walls of denial through which nothing reaches.  My hubby CAN'T have done that, he's a high councilman.  My son didn't do that, he's going on a mission. 

This type, whether they're broken or evil, end up committing great acts of evil.  They don't believe their own daughters reporting incest.  They'll lie to judges about what they heard, when, and the mental status of the victim.  If they're Christian, they'll lecture victims on their duties to forgive.  They'll accuse victims of boat rocking, and blame them for ruining a good person's chances to succeed in life.  Sometimes it's out of fear because perp is the breadwinner.  Sometimes it's out of pride, because look who she picked as a spouse, or what does that say about her parenting.  But yeah, beware.

[JAHS]

This guy tries to make some correction concerning the they way this story is portrayed in the various news outlets

Words matter. So you just knew we were in for a rough ride, journalistically speaking, when headlines like this one began to sprout online: “Peeping Tom in Nashville Store Turns Out to Be High-Ranking Mormon Leader.” Things got really rough when local-TV news kicked in.

Now, I realize that this particular headline ran at a Patheos advocacy site called — Friendly Atheist. But this online post did combine lots of the issues and stumbles one could find elsewhere. 
Combine the present-tense reference to this man being a bishop with the phrase “High-Ranking Mormon Leader” and it would appear that  a member of the church’s national hierarchy had fallen. 

Here is how The New York Post summed up the crucial information about Murdock’s standing:

"A high-ranking member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was busted taking photos of a woman in a store’s dressing room, according to police and church officials."

Like I said, religion-news can get complicated. The term “high councilor” sounds really important, especially when combined with another “high-ranking” reference.
I really liked the unintentional humor in this headline: “Police:  Man who filmed woman in Tennessee dressing room is high member of LDS church.”

So he is not a “leader,” he’s just a “member” and he is “high.”

 

[Maureen]

John Dehlin has put together a summary of this person, Steven Murdock, on Mormon Stories. It's pretty interesting.

M.

[Tacenda]

33 minutes ago, Maureen said:

John Dehlin has put together a summary of this person, Steven Murdock, on Mormon Stories. It's pretty interesting.

M.

Here's the link, and his very detailed report for those that don't care for podcasts. It definitely shows that this wasn't Murdock's first rodeo.

https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/steven-murdock/

[changed]

On 8/20/2019 at 1:16 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

[and from the Tennessean story]

While we're tossing around our yucks and barfs, how about throwing some of that the wife's way?  Wife's actions were somewhere between misguided out of shock, and downright evil.

How about throwing some the church's way?  Why would the church put someone like this into leadership positions?  

On 8/20/2019 at 1:18 PM, bluebell said:

Seriously.  She's the worst kind of enabler.  

the church is the worst kind of enabler to claim callings are from God, and put people like this into leadership positions.

 

The spirit does not protect.

Callings in the church do not come from God.  

 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by changed

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, changed said:

How about throwing some the church's way?  Why would the church put someone like this into leadership positions?  

the church is the worst kind of enabler to claim callings are from God, and put people like this into leadership positions.

 

The spirit does not protect.

Callings in the church do not come from God.  

 

 

Yeah, I am tired of reading this crap and trying not to lash out.

Edited August 22, 2019 by The Nehor

[clarkgoble]

1 hour ago, changed said:

How about throwing some the church's way?  Why would the church put someone like this into leadership positions?  

the church is the worst kind of enabler to claim callings are from God, and put people like this into leadership positions.

The spirit does not protect.

Callings in the church do not come from God.  

The Church doesn't claim all callings are inspired. Further callings can only come to the people available. While leaders are directed to pray and gain inspiration, they also have free will. It's simply the case not all have inspiration. Often desperation is a huge factor as well. 

The fact someone may believe a particular calling is inspired doesn't entail that it was inspired. 

It's bad enough people claiming de facto infallibility to the apostles when they don't claim that. Attributing it to Bishops and Stake Presidents really seems like a reach.

Edited August 22, 2019 by clarkgoble

[Hamba Tuhan]

29 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, I am tired of reading this crap and trying not to lash out.

I've gone from counting to ten to counting to 20 and beyond. Good thing I know heaps of numbers!

[bluebell]

13 hours ago, changed said:

 the church is the worst kind of enabler to claim callings are from God, and put people like this into leadership positions.

 

The spirit does not protect.

Callings in the church do not come from God.  

 

 

Please don't thread-jack the thread with this, it's off topic.  If you want to talk about callings in church then you can start your own thread on that.