If New Revelation came...

[LoudmouthMormon]

11 hours ago, Lemuel said:

But back to SettingDogStar's original question, God is so eager to speak to us that He will do it in any way that we might accept it.  If he has to use emojis, so be it.  😇  

 

 

You're welcome.

[Calm]

10 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

The moment Joseph died published revelations that were in first person, revealed new things, read to the congregation of the church, approved, and canonized rapidly dropped. It's more of a curiosity for me then a doubt or accusation.

My understanding is they were dropping publishing prior to Joseph’s death. I will see if I can find the info later.

 Examples had been given, with the growth it seems appropriate to me not to duplicate examples over and over again....especially calls for repentance as that may be easier if not made public. 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

I find this to be one of the more difficult things to do sometimes around others. Sometimes the "sources" for why I believe what I believe are so scattered through scriptures, blogs, talks, and historical records that it would be an adventure to try and organize the proofs for my beliefs. Plus I don't have the details on a lot of the stranger things I might believe, just on outline in my head on how they might work according to scripture but the Lord hasn't directly given enough info publicly to confirm my belief. 

Some of my stuff is based more on hunches and trickles of what I think is inspiration. I just try to make sure they never become “the gospel” to me.

[smac97]

14 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

If new revelation came how would you expect it to sound?

Formal, but modern.

14 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

The BoM and D&C were heavily couched in a KJV style wording and are very beautiful, is that the standard though or just the wording filtered through the minds of that generation?

D&C 137 and 138 aren't very KJV-ish.  

14 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

Would it bother you if another revelation was brought forth that maybe sounded a bit clunkier, or is that an immediate red flag for you?

Nope.  One of the big mistakes we can make is to take our personal expectations and impute them onto what revelations are supposed to look/sound like.

14 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

I've heard it said that the KJV wording is "the langauge of revelation" but I'm not sure that's doctrine.

I've never heard that.

14 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

Does it really need to have certain phrases, wording, or "flow" to qualify as Gods word or can it just be much more plain.

As an attorney, I write in a formal and precise style.  Informality isn't really appropriate, and when I see it in other attorneys' pleadings, it really stands out (in a bad way).

14 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

When a so called prophet, from Snuffer to the TLC, jumps ship and produces revelation I've seen the criticism that their revelations use to many different words that just don't "match the way God speaks."

I don't believe Mr. Snuffer is receiving revelation.

14 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

While I might agree that these men aren't necessarily prophets, is using the wording of their revelations really a good criticism or does God really care how it's worded?

No, it's not a good criticism.  It's too facile.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[LoudmouthMormon]

By the way, Warren Jeffs and his org occasionally send out official revelations.  My bishop has received more than one of them.   They're quite notable - full of spelling errors, incomprehensible sentences, grammatical errors.   I'm glad my bishop just hands that stuff to me.  I get a kick out of it.

In case anyone is interested, the last one I saw (back in 2017) mentioned the following:
- Celestial sun-star orbs, like Onidi
- a quorum of Eloheim of Elohim
- "By morrow midnight, over one billion and seven hundred million murder spirit people on now world" are gonna croak
- Instructions to go look at Estonia and Latvia, because half of the population are supposedly missing
- We're exhorted to read the Pearl of Great Price.
- President Trump is urged, by name, to "now do full deliverance of my now innocent Keyholder"
- The CIA pays a judge a yearly bribe of $1,500,000 to keep Jeffs behind bars.
- Verse 25 reads: "CIA was, and now is not. Amen."

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by LoudmouthMormon

[CV75]

4 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

While I wouldn't be surprised if it was couched in KJV language since it's been the common feeling amongst the saints, I'm curious as to why the articles of faith are your reference for that? Those simply state, in reference to the bible, that that we believe it to be the word of God so long as it is translated correctly. Changing Thee to You or Saith to Said isn't really a translation as it is just a modern update. 

AoF #8 is my reference for not thinking that modern revelations would necessarily be couched in KJV language (originally Early Modern English and subsequently re-translated into many other languages). I have no reason to believe the KJV represents any divine syntax, though some Church Presidents may receive, record and/or report revelation using it. While many saints commonly pray in modern Biblical terms, I think this is an ethos that cannot be replicated in all languages across the globe, though the saints can make other accommodations for common, outward vocal spiritual expression friendly to the Holy Ghost's "translation."

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

By the way, Warren Jeffs and his org occasionally send out official revelations.  My bishop has received more than one of them.   They're quite notable - full of spelling errors, incomprehensible sentences, grammatical errors.   I'm glad my bishop just hands that stuff to me.  I get a kick out of it.

In case anyone is interested, the last one I saw (back in 2017) mentioned the following:
- Celestial sun-star orbs, like Onidi
- a quorum of Eloheim of Elohim
- "By morrow midnight, over one billion and seven hundred million murder spirit people on now world" are gonna croak
- Instructions to go look at Estonia and Latvia, because half of the population are supposedly missing
- We're exhorted to read the Pearl of Great Price.
- President Trump is urged, by name, to "now do full deliverance of my now innocent Keyholder"
- The CIA pays a judge a yearly bribe of $1,500,000 to keep Jeffs behind bars.
- Verse 25 reads: "CIA was, and now is not. Amen."

 

Makes the Snuffer revelations look good by comparison even though his are riddled with errors and pablum.

God gives a psychological assessment of Jesus:

As between one another, you choose to not dispute. When the definition was given, it was accompanied by the realization the Lord could have disputed every day of His life with someone. He deliberately chose to not contend. He was not an argumentative personality.

 

Seminary folklore as proverbs from Snuffer:

Life is an open book test. We only need to realize the test is underway to be able to pass it.

Things which seem perfectly normal here in mortality are completely mad when viewed from eternity. Had the rich man a broader view of things, he would have treated his beggar Lazarus more kindly. By the time his omission became clear to him, it was too late to repair.

 

Snuffer imagines he is Paul and Nephi:

I knew a man in Christ about four years ago who, being overshadowed by the spirit on the 26th of February, 2005, had the Lord appear to him again. And the Lord spoke to him face to face in plain humility, as one man speaks to another, calling him by name. As they spoke the Lord put forth His hand and touched the eyes of the man and said, Look! The man had opened before him a view of the Lord kneeling in prayer. It was in a dark place. The air was heavy and overcast with sorrow. The man beheld the Lord praying in Gethsemene on the night of His betrayal and before His crucifixion.

(It continues teaching the LDS church’s conception of Gethsemane that could have been pulled from a General Conference talk with a silly addition about how Jesus kept thinking it was over and it was not. He also explains that the Resurrected Lord was embraced by Mary and it was not “touch me not” but “hold me not”. Looks like someone went to a New Testament Institute class.)

 

Some ostentatious humility and a bad attempt to be Abram or Saul:

On the 10th day of September, 2011 the word of the Lord said to me, You shall no longer be called Denver, but your name shall be called David. I was startled to hear this, and it troubled me. I regarded David as an adulterer and a murderer, who killed Uriah to hide his adultery. In response to Nathan’s parable of the rich man who took the poor man’s lamb in 2 Samuel 4:12, David condemned himself to die for his sin. If David considered himself worthy to die, then should I not also condemn David? The more I reflected on this, the more troubled I became. I asked God to give to me another name, not the unwanted David.

For a day and a half my distress grew, and I prayed repeatedly to have the name changed. I feared it memorialized and perhaps also foreshadowed failure and rebellion. I did not want to have the Lord view me as either rebellious or a failure. I thought the name was detestable, the name of a bloody man who was unfit to build the Lord’s house, whose family was torn apart by infighting. After a day and a half of prayer asking to change the name, the Lord answered in a perfectly mild voice saying, I thought it no great insult to be called the Son of David.

His gentle response cut my heart and made me ashamed. I learned David means: Beloved of God. This made me all the more embarrassed at how meanly I had reacted and spoken to the Lord about His gift to me. Instead of thinking it an unworthy name, I concluded I was unworthy of His gift. I asked Him to forgive me and he frankly did so. I am an ignorant and prideful man.

I expected to keep this private, and after doing so for six years, I have been commanded to make this known.

(What a missed opportunity. I would have claimed that I was the replacement David from the Doctrine and Covenants. I find it hard to believe he is crafty enough to use subtlety to hint at that so I think he just forgot.)

 

The Romans were right. God has a three headed dog guarding the paths the dead walk. The charitable secret to getting into heaven is that you should, like the Priest and the Levite, wait for someone else to be beaten and devoured by the monster first and then go in:

I saw a great mountain, and upon the top thereof was the glory of the fathers. To reach the top, all were required to enter through a narrow pass. In the pass was a great beast, cruel and pitiless.

The Lord brought people whom he had chosen to the mouth of the pass, and there he told them to wait for him, and he went away. The people did not wait for Him, but began to move forward into the narrow pass. The beast killed some and injured others, and none were able to pass through.

After great losses, many deaths, and terrible suffering, the people chosen by the Lord withdrew and departed from the mountain. After four and five generations, the Lord again brought some few back to the pass and again told them to stay at the mouth of the pass and wait on Him. But again there were those who tired of waiting, for they could see in the distance the glory of the Fathers and they desired to be there. These, being overtaken by their zeal, did not wait, but moved into the pass where again the beast killed or hurt them.

Among those who waited, however, was a man who knelt and prayed, and waited patiently for his Lord. After a great time, the Lord came to this man and took him by the hand and led him into the pass where the great beast guarded the way. As the Lord led, however, the beast was ever occupied with attacking others, and therefore its back was turned to the Lord and the man. And so they passed by unnoticed, safely to the top. The Lord sent the man to the Fathers who, when they saw the man, inquired of him, How came you to be here and yet mortal; the last who came here were brothers who had been slain, and you are yet alive? And the man answered, I waited on the Lord and he brought me here safely.

 

It is amazing how Snuffer has to be awakened by revelation to get stuff you can find commonly in books but is presented as if it is an amazing discovery to Snuffer:

Last night I was awakened by this:

Did not Ishmael and Isaac mourn together and bury their father Abraham? Was not their father’s blood precious unto them both? Does not the blood of Abraham run in both Isaac and Ishmael? Does not the blood of Abraham run in both Esau and Jacob?

Let Ishmael today find the blood of his father, Abraham, precious still. Let Isaac likewise today find the blood of his father, Abraham, precious again. For Abraham’s sake, let all the brothers who descend from Abraham now mourn when Abraham’s blood is spilled by any of his descendants.

If Abraham’s sons do not find his blood to be precious still, there remains nothing between them but the shedding of Abraham’s blood. For all his sons who fail to find Abraham’s blood to be precious will be held to account by God, who will judge between the sons of Isaac and the sons of Ishmael, the sons of Esau and the sons of Jacob, for father Abraham’s sake, with whom God covenanted.

The sons of Abraham will not be permitted to continue this disregard of their common father’s blood without provoking God, who will soon judge between Abraham’s sons.

 

Snuffer reacts to his excommunication by channeling Joseph Smith channeling God and suggesting that he authored the idea that God would use small things to confound the wise and that those who reject his plagiarism find him foolish. I also like how the “Lord” decided to deny the Church the claim to be led by the Priesthood yet they continue to claim it. One would think they would melt or get struck down or something. Seriously, Snuffer, you are a lawyer. Be more specific:

On the evening of May 1, 2014, the Lord gave me further light and knowledge about His work in His vineyard. The Lord is in control over the church, men, and all things. When he undertakes to accomplish something, there is nothing that the Lord God shall take in His heart to do, but what he will do it. (Abr. 5:4) Often the means used by the Lord to accomplish His strange act, and to perform His strange work (T&C 102:20), are very small indeed. Now ye may suppose that this is foolishness in me; but behold, I say unto you, that by small and simple things are great things brought to pass; and small means in many instances doth confound the wise. And the Lord God doth work by means to bring about his great and eternal purposes; and by very small means the Lord doth confound the wise and bringeth about the salvation of many souls. (Alma 17:8) The LDS Church has Doctrine and Covenants 121, verses 36 to 40 (T&C 139:5) to warn it about abusing His authority. There is an “amen” or end to authority when control, compulsion, and dominion are exercised in any degree of unrighteousness. Therefore, when using authority, great care must be taken. In any case, the Church was careless. Therefore, those involved are now left to kick against the pricks, to persecute the Saints, and to fight against God.

D&C Section 121 (T&C 139) is a warning to church leaders. It is addressing the powerful, not the powerless. It is addressing those who occupy the seats of authority over others. Only those who claim the right to control, compel, and exercise dominion, are warned against persecuting the saints who believe the religion and practice it as I did from the time of my conversion. My excommunication was an abuse of authority. Therefore, as soon as the decision was made, the Lord terminated the priesthood authority of the Stake Presidency and every member of the High Council who sustained this decision, which was unanimous. Thereafter, I appealed to the First Presidency, outlining the involvement of the Twelve and the Seventy. The appeal gave notice to them all. The appeal was summarily denied.

Last general conference [April 5, 2014] the entire First Presidency, the Twelve, the Seventy, and all other general authorities and auxiliaries voted to sustain those who abused their authority in casting me out of the Church. At that moment, the Lord ended all claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to claim it is led by the priesthood. They have not practiced what he requires. The Lord has brought about His purposes. This has been in His heart all along. He has chosen to use small means to accomplish it, but he always uses the smallest of means to fulfill His purposes.

None of this was my doing. The Lord’s strange act was not, could not, be planned by me; was not, could not, have been controlled by me. It was not anticipated by me, or even understood by me, until after the Lord had accomplished His will, and made it apparent to me on the evening of May 1, 2014. He alone has done this. He is the author of all of this.

 

His organization rejected D&C 138 so he had to channel Joseph F. Smith a bit:

It has puzzled me how the Lord could go to visit the dead, the dead could greet the Son of God in the spirit world where He declared their redemption from the bands of death. Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body to be united never again to be divided, that they might receive a fullness of joy  on the one hand, but Christ did not go to preach to the wicked. Instead, from among the righteous he organized his forces and appointed messengers clothed with power and authority and commissioned them to go forth. Therefore, the very same spirits who rejoice at the deliverance from the grave were left in the grave and it was by them was the Gospel preached to those who had died. I had wondered how they could be raised from the dead and yet remain to preach to the dead. After inquiring about this matter diligently, I have learned that when the Lord declared the resurrection, He did not resurrect them. He assured them it would come, but comparatively few were resurrected with the Lord at the time he came forth from the grave.

This then puzzled me to know who then was taken from the grave, as recorded in Matthew 12:30: Many of the bodies of the saints which slept, arose, and prophesied by Samuel and confirmed by Christ (3 Nephi 10:5), who arose that were called “many Saints” by both the New Testament and the Book of Mormon.

I was shown that the spirits that rose were limited to a direct line back to Adam, requiring the hearts of the Fathers and the hearts of the children to be bound together by sealing, confirmed by covenant and the Holy Spirit of Promise. This is the reason that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have entered into their exaltation according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels, but are gods.

(A direct line from whom to Adam? Christ? Makes some sense but who did those in the New World see? Their lineage does not go there since at least Noah.)

 

And after undoing the revelation on plural marriage but stealing a lot from it God declares monogamy as the eternal law and lays out who now dwells in exaltation:

And again I say to you, Abraham and Sarah sit upon a Throne, for he could not be there if not for Sarah’s covenant with him; Isaac and Rebecca sit upon a Throne, and Isaac likewise could not be there if not for Rebecca’s covenant with him; and Jacob and Rachel sit upon a Throne, and Jacob could not be there if not for Rachel’s covenant with him; and all these have ascended above Dominions and Principalities and Powers, to abide in my Kingdom.

(Sounds very equal and a nice copy of what General Authorities say now that you cannot enter exaltation without your spouse so respect him/her.  Of course he trims it down to one spouse each. Meanwhile Hagar, Keturah, Leah, Bilhah, and Zilpah are presumably all roasting in hell for eternity for having the temerity of not being the favorite wife.)

 

Give Priesthood to women? Nah, but how to appear open minded? Got it:

I asked the Lord that priesthood get extended beyond the confines of the men who have continually abused and neglected it. I was told that priesthood is confined to men because of the Fall and the conditions ordained by God at that time. Until we reverse things in the Millennium, that is the way it is going to remain, as to the ordinances thus far given in public. I asked the Lord to change that order. It is not going to change. I then asked the Lord that if only men were to hold priesthood for our public ordinances, then could only women vote to sustain them. The saying pleased the Lord, for it was already in His heart. But He said to me, There shall be a minimum of seven women to sustain the man in any vote, and if the man is married, his wife shall be one of them.

(God says sorry, but I decreed it and can’t change it. Would if I could but what can you do? It is not like I am omnipotent or anything. Here, have the right to vote and we will call it even.)

 

Sorry, I had way too much fun with this......

Edited July 22, 2019 by The Nehor

[SettingDogStar]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Makes the Snuffer revelations look good by comparison even though his are riddled with errors and pablum.

God gives a psychological assessment of Jesus:

As between one another, you choose to not dispute. When the definition was given, it was accompanied by the realization the Lord could have disputed every day of His life with someone. He deliberately chose to not contend. He was not an argumentative personality.

 

Seminary folklore as proverbs from Snuffer:

Life is an open book test. We only need to realize the test is underway to be able to pass it.

Things which seem perfectly normal here in mortality are completely mad when viewed from eternity. Had the rich man a broader view of things, he would have treated his beggar Lazarus more kindly. By the time his omission became clear to him, it was too late to repair.

 

Snuffer imagines he is Paul and Nephi:

I knew a man in Christ about four years ago who, being overshadowed by the spirit on the 26th of February, 2005, had the Lord appear to him again. And the Lord spoke to him face to face in plain humility, as one man speaks to another, calling him by name. As they spoke the Lord put forth His hand and touched the eyes of the man and said, Look! The man had opened before him a view of the Lord kneeling in prayer. It was in a dark place. The air was heavy and overcast with sorrow. The man beheld the Lord praying in Gethsemene on the night of His betrayal and before His crucifixion.

(It continues teaching the LDS church’s conception of Gethsemane that could have been pulled from a General Conference talk with a silly addition about how Jesus kept thinking it was over and it was not. He also explains that the Resurrected Lord was embraced by Mary and it was not “touch me not” but “hold me not”. Looks like someone went to a New Testament Institute class.)

 

Some ostentatious humility and a bad attempt to be Abram or Saul:

On the 10th day of September, 2011 the word of the Lord said to me, You shall no longer be called Denver, but your name shall be called David. I was startled to hear this, and it troubled me. I regarded David as an adulterer and a murderer, who killed Uriah to hide his adultery. In response to Nathan’s parable of the rich man who took the poor man’s lamb in 2 Samuel 4:12, David condemned himself to die for his sin. If David considered himself worthy to die, then should I not also condemn David? The more I reflected on this, the more troubled I became. I asked God to give to me another name, not the unwanted David.

For a day and a half my distress grew, and I prayed repeatedly to have the name changed. I feared it memorialized and perhaps also foreshadowed failure and rebellion. I did not want to have the Lord view me as either rebellious or a failure. I thought the name was detestable, the name of a bloody man who was unfit to build the Lord’s house, whose family was torn apart by infighting. After a day and a half of prayer asking to change the name, the Lord answered in a perfectly mild voice saying, I thought it no great insult to be called the Son of David.

His gentle response cut my heart and made me ashamed. I learned David means: Beloved of God. This made me all the more embarrassed at how meanly I had reacted and spoken to the Lord about His gift to me. Instead of thinking it an unworthy name, I concluded I was unworthy of His gift. I asked Him to forgive me and he frankly did so. I am an ignorant and prideful man.

I expected to keep this private, and after doing so for six years, I have been commanded to make this known.

(What a missed opportunity. I would have claimed that I was the replacement David from the Doctrine and Covenants. I find it hard to believe he is crafty enough to use subtlety to hint at that so I think he just forgot.)

 

The Romans were right. God has a three headed dog guarding the paths the dead walk. The charitable secret to getting into heaven is that you should, like the Priest and the Levite, wait for someone else to be beaten and devoured by the monster first and then go in:

I saw a great mountain, and upon the top thereof was the glory of the fathers. To reach the top, all were required to enter through a narrow pass. In the pass was a great beast, cruel and pitiless.

The Lord brought people whom he had chosen to the mouth of the pass, and there he told them to wait for him, and he went away. The people did not wait for Him, but began to move forward into the narrow pass. The beast killed some and injured others, and none were able to pass through.

After great losses, many deaths, and terrible suffering, the people chosen by the Lord withdrew and departed from the mountain. After four and five generations, the Lord again brought some few back to the pass and again told them to stay at the mouth of the pass and wait on Him. But again there were those who tired of waiting, for they could see in the distance the glory of the Fathers and they desired to be there. These, being overtaken by their zeal, did not wait, but moved into the pass where again the beast killed or hurt them.

Among those who waited, however, was a man who knelt and prayed, and waited patiently for his Lord. After a great time, the Lord came to this man and took him by the hand and led him into the pass where the great beast guarded the way. As the Lord led, however, the beast was ever occupied with attacking others, and therefore its back was turned to the Lord and the man. And so they passed by unnoticed, safely to the top. The Lord sent the man to the Fathers who, when they saw the man, inquired of him, How came you to be here and yet mortal; the last who came here were brothers who had been slain, and you are yet alive? And the man answered, I waited on the Lord and he brought me here safely.

 

It is amazing how Snuffer has to be awakened by revelation to get stuff you can find commonly in books but is presented as if it is an amazing discovery to Snuffer:

Last night I was awakened by this:

Did not Ishmael and Isaac mourn together and bury their father Abraham? Was not their father’s blood precious unto them both? Does not the blood of Abraham run in both Isaac and Ishmael? Does not the blood of Abraham run in both Esau and Jacob?

Let Ishmael today find the blood of his father, Abraham, precious still. Let Isaac likewise today find the blood of his father, Abraham, precious again. For Abraham’s sake, let all the brothers who descend from Abraham now mourn when Abraham’s blood is spilled by any of his descendants.

If Abraham’s sons do not find his blood to be precious still, there remains nothing between them but the shedding of Abraham’s blood. For all his sons who fail to find Abraham’s blood to be precious will be held to account by God, who will judge between the sons of Isaac and the sons of Ishmael, the sons of Esau and the sons of Jacob, for father Abraham’s sake, with whom God covenanted.

The sons of Abraham will not be permitted to continue this disregard of their common father’s blood without provoking God, who will soon judge between Abraham’s sons.

 

Snuffer reacts to his excommunication by channeling Joseph Smith channeling God and suggesting that he authored the idea that God would use small things to confound the wise and that those who reject his plagiarism find him foolish. I also like how the “Lord” decided to deny the Church the claim to be led by the Priesthood yet they continue to claim it. One would think they would melt or get struck down or something. Seriously, Snuffer, you are a lawyer. Be more specific:

On the evening of May 1, 2014, the Lord gave me further light and knowledge about His work in His vineyard. The Lord is in control over the church, men, and all things. When he undertakes to accomplish something, there is nothing that the Lord God shall take in His heart to do, but what he will do it. (Abr. 5:4) Often the means used by the Lord to accomplish His strange act, and to perform His strange work (T&C 102:20), are very small indeed. Now ye may suppose that this is foolishness in me; but behold, I say unto you, that by small and simple things are great things brought to pass; and small means in many instances doth confound the wise. And the Lord God doth work by means to bring about his great and eternal purposes; and by very small means the Lord doth confound the wise and bringeth about the salvation of many souls. (Alma 17:8) The LDS Church has Doctrine and Covenants 121, verses 36 to 40 (T&C 139:5) to warn it about abusing His authority. There is an “amen” or end to authority when control, compulsion, and dominion are exercised in any degree of unrighteousness. Therefore, when using authority, great care must be taken. In any case, the Church was careless. Therefore, those involved are now left to kick against the pricks, to persecute the Saints, and to fight against God.

D&C Section 121 (T&C 139) is a warning to church leaders. It is addressing the powerful, not the powerless. It is addressing those who occupy the seats of authority over others. Only those who claim the right to control, compel, and exercise dominion, are warned against persecuting the saints who believe the religion and practice it as I did from the time of my conversion. My excommunication was an abuse of authority. Therefore, as soon as the decision was made, the Lord terminated the priesthood authority of the Stake Presidency and every member of the High Council who sustained this decision, which was unanimous. Thereafter, I appealed to the First Presidency, outlining the involvement of the Twelve and the Seventy. The appeal gave notice to them all. The appeal was summarily denied.

Last general conference [April 5, 2014] the entire First Presidency, the Twelve, the Seventy, and all other general authorities and auxiliaries voted to sustain those who abused their authority in casting me out of the Church. At that moment, the Lord ended all claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to claim it is led by the priesthood. They have not practiced what he requires. The Lord has brought about His purposes. This has been in His heart all along. He has chosen to use small means to accomplish it, but he always uses the smallest of means to fulfill His purposes.

None of this was my doing. The Lord’s strange act was not, could not, be planned by me; was not, could not, have been controlled by me. It was not anticipated by me, or even understood by me, until after the Lord had accomplished His will, and made it apparent to me on the evening of May 1, 2014. He alone has done this. He is the author of all of this.

 

His organization rejected D&C 138 so he had to channel Joseph F. Smith a bit:

It has puzzled me how the Lord could go to visit the dead, the dead could greet the Son of God in the spirit world where He declared their redemption from the bands of death. Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body to be united never again to be divided, that they might receive a fullness of joy  on the one hand, but Christ did not go to preach to the wicked. Instead, from among the righteous he organized his forces and appointed messengers clothed with power and authority and commissioned them to go forth. Therefore, the very same spirits who rejoice at the deliverance from the grave were left in the grave and it was by them was the Gospel preached to those who had died. I had wondered how they could be raised from the dead and yet remain to preach to the dead. After inquiring about this matter diligently, I have learned that when the Lord declared the resurrection, He did not resurrect them. He assured them it would come, but comparatively few were resurrected with the Lord at the time he came forth from the grave.

This then puzzled me to know who then was taken from the grave, as recorded in Matthew 12:30: Many of the bodies of the saints which slept, arose, and prophesied by Samuel and confirmed by Christ (3 Nephi 10:5), who arose that were called “many Saints” by both the New Testament and the Book of Mormon.

I was shown that the spirits that rose were limited to a direct line back to Adam, requiring the hearts of the Fathers and the hearts of the children to be bound together by sealing, confirmed by covenant and the Holy Spirit of Promise. This is the reason that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have entered into their exaltation according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels, but are gods.

(A direct line from whom to Adam? Christ? Makes some sense but who did those in the New World see? Their lineage does not go there since at least Noah.)

 

And after undoing the revelation on plural marriage but stealing a lot from it God declares monogamy as the eternal law and lays out who now dwells in exaltation:

And again I say to you, Abraham and Sarah sit upon a Throne, for he could not be there if not for Sarah’s covenant with him; Isaac and Rebecca sit upon a Throne, and Isaac likewise could not be there if not for Rebecca’s covenant with him; and Jacob and Rachel sit upon a Throne, and Jacob could not be there if not for Rachel’s covenant with him; and all these have ascended above Dominions and Principalities and Powers, to abide in my Kingdom.

(Sounds very equal and a nice copy of what General Authorities say now that you cannot enter exaltation without your spouse so respect him/her.  Of course he trims it down to one spouse each. Meanwhile Hagar, Keturah, Leah, Bilhah, and Zilpah are presumably all roasting in hell for eternity for having the temerity of not being the favorite wife.)

 

Give Priesthood to women? Nah, but how to appear open minded? Got it:

I asked the Lord that priesthood get extended beyond the confines of the men who have continually abused and neglected it. I was told that priesthood is confined to men because of the Fall and the conditions ordained by God at that time. Until we reverse things in the Millennium, that is the way it is going to remain, as to the ordinances thus far given in public. I asked the Lord to change that order. It is not going to change. I then asked the Lord that if only men were to hold priesthood for our public ordinances, then could only women vote to sustain them. The saying pleased the Lord, for it was already in His heart. But He said to me, There shall be a minimum of seven women to sustain the man in any vote, and if the man is married, his wife shall be one of them.

(God says sorry, but I decreed it and can’t change it. Would if I could but what can you do? It is not like I am omnipotent or anything. Here, have the right to vote and we will call it even.)

 

Sorry, I had way too much fun with this......

Funnily enough while I don’t agree with Snuffer or his role, I like the way some of his “revelations” are worded. In fact reading on of them is what inspired this post.

Again, I don’t believe it’s a true revelation or that he is a prophet. However, the wording of his revelations are much more, uh, simple? Not as flowery? Usually you see imposters attempt to con you by sounding high and mighty, couched in flowing prose and prophecy, but Snuffers are honestly kind of clunky and just use words like “you should not have disagreed with one another” or something. They’re not as bad as Warren Jeffs since Snuffer actually has decent grammar and spelling. So either he just thinks his followers are dumb or he really believes what he’s doing is right and thus doesn’t care what the revelations sound like.

It’s food for thought though. This isn’t a thread about Snuffer but I would say that I actual don’t mind the way some (not all) of his “revelations” are worded.

Edit: Btw the main reason the scripture committee rejected 138 is becuase it’s copyright. It’s not that they believe it was wrong or false. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by SettingDogStar

[Storm Rider]

The RLDS/Community of Christ has consistently added to their Doctrine and Covenants. This is one of the things I appreciated discovering and wished that leaders had set the same example. 

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

The RLDS/Community of Christ has consistently added to their Doctrine and Covenants. This is one of the things I appreciated discovering and wished that leaders had set the same example. 

Read those added sections before you think it is a good idea.

[Storm Rider]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Read those added sections before you think it is a good idea.

I idea I was thinking about is that the heavens remain open and God continues to talk to his prophets - specifically new revelation. I was not addressing the quality or caliber of added scripture found within the Community of Christ. 

[SettingDogStar]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Read those added sections before you think it is a good idea.

My interpretation was that Storm Rider likes the pattern of continually adding new revelation as it came from the Lord. I like that too, I wish the leadership would publish revelations as they came even if they were rather mundane. 

[The Nehor]

Just now, SettingDogStar said:

My interpretation was that Storm Rider likes the pattern of continually adding new revelation as it came from the Lord. I like that too, I wish the leadership would publish revelations as they came even if they were rather mundane. 

I would have no problem with them publishing them if they chose but I would not want them canonizing them. I think the early church may have gone too far in canonizing a few (not all or even most) of the revelations in the D&C now.

[SettingDogStar]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I would have no problem with them publishing them if they chose but I would not want them canonizing them. I think the early church may have gone too far in canonizing a few (not all or even most) of the revelations in the D&C now.

I’m curious as to what makes you say that? 

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

I’m curious as to what makes you say that? 

Sections 15 and 16 are almost identical. Why do we need both?

[SettingDogStar]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Sections 15 and 16 are almost identical. Why do we need both?

Fair enough haha When i first read those verses I actually had a momentary "doubt" that maybe Joseph was just reusing old manuscript or revelation, but then I realized that's obviously what he was doing and that doesn't make it not inspired 

[Hamba Tuhan]

11 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I specifically said for the Church as a whole.

If you receive true personal revelation good for you.

Yes, but why do you privilege the former over the latter?

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yes, but why do you privilege the former over the latter?

Because I am to be directed by both personal revelation and the revelations claimed by our leaders.  I privilege neither but acceptance of one is required for continued membership in the Church.

In order to accept one and maintain standing I am often expected to ignore the other.

One is between me and God.  The other features an intermediary that declines to provide any evidence yet expects God to confirm all their statements to anyone who prays.

[Hamba Tuhan]

53 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I privilege neither but acceptance of one is required for continued membership in the Church.

I personally think that acceptance of both is required, but I get your point that, depending on how it is handled, public rejection of one may be more easily linked to apostasy. (Though I'd be willing, if pushed, to argue that rejection of the other is always at the root ...)

Quote

In order to accept one and maintain standing I am often expected to ignore the other.

I wish you well with that. My experience has been that revelation to me and revelation to the authorised prophets is a single, seamless continuum -- which certainly sounds like an easier position to be in! I don't envy your struggle.

[kllindley]

14 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I specifically said for the Church as a whole.

If you receive true personal revelation good for you.

I think a major problem is that the Church as a whole doesn't want revelation. I am entirely unconvinced that they would be any more willing to accept a revelation in the Lord's words than what we now receive.  

I think the same was not true for the Saints in Joseph's day. Given the relative scarcity of Canon Revelations, he obviously taught so much more and it seems from my reading of contemporary accounts that the Saints were generally very faithful in accepting and obeying his less formal teachings based on his inspiration and personal teachings.

I fully believe that just as soon as the Church as a whole hungers and thirsts enough to accept and follow the degree of revelation we currently receive, the Lord will immediately increase our privileges. 

[Robert F. Smith]

On 7/21/2019 at 9:19 PM, SettingDogStar said:

....................................

Edit: Duncan pointed out that I should clarify more since revelation is received pretty often, just not canonized or even quoted. I meant a revelation that would be read and canonized into the D&C. While I considered that a revelation was received, I don't consider OD2 to actually be that revelation but an announcement of it. Something like Section 76, 107, 84, or 132. 

While it is true that OD2 is not a revelation, but only a description of revelatory content, that does not mean that actual revelations have to be given in any particular format or language.  The Classical biblical prophets often gave their revelations as Hebrew poetry which could be sung.  They followed then conventional formats, just as a modern storyteller does.  For example, using 'Thus sayeth the Lord" was once a standard introductory format in Hebrew and in KJV English.  Same as the well-known opener "Once upon a time" let's everyone know that a fairytale is coming.  Joseph Smith followed the prophetic conventions of his time.  Modern prophets are not obligated to follow those same conventions.

Over and above that, however, prophecy does not have to be verbal.  It can be visual, physical, or impressionistic.  The only common denominator would be the Holy Spirit.  I once received a strong non-verbal message from the Holy Spirit and it made a powerful impression upon me.  I cannot quote it, but only describe it and the meaning it had.

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, kllindley said:

I think a major problem is that the Church as a whole doesn't want revelation. I am entirely unconvinced that they would be any more willing to accept a revelation in the Lord's words than what we now receive.  

I think the same was not true for the Saints in Joseph's day. Given the relative scarcity of Canon Revelations, he obviously taught so much more and it seems from my reading of contemporary accounts that the Saints were generally very faithful in accepting and obeying his less formal teachings based on his inspiration and personal teachings.

I fully believe that just as soon as the Church as a whole hungers and thirsts enough to accept and follow the degree of revelation we currently receive, the Lord will immediately increase our privileges. 

A couple of things: (1) it may be that the foundational revelations of the Restoration were more or less completed in Joseph's time, and that additional material is not as crucial now. (2) Jan Shipps pointed out that the Saints of the 19th century lived in "sacred time," a time in which the belief you describe was paramount and God was imminent.  That no longer applies and may be impossible to recapture outside the celestial room of a temple.

[The Nehor]

11 hours ago, kllindley said:

I think a major problem is that the Church as a whole doesn't want revelation. I am entirely unconvinced that they would be any more willing to accept a revelation in the Lord's words than what we now receive.  

I think the same was not true for the Saints in Joseph's day. Given the relative scarcity of Canon Revelations, he obviously taught so much more and it seems from my reading of contemporary accounts that the Saints were generally very faithful in accepting and obeying his less formal teachings based on his inspiration and personal teachings.

I fully believe that just as soon as the Church as a whole hungers and thirsts enough to accept and follow the degree of revelation we currently receive, the Lord will immediately increase our privileges. 

I think you overestimate the faithfulness of the early saints, speaking generally and not specifically.

[Tacenda]

I think revelations are overrated. Warren Jeffs gave zillions of revelations and created havoc on so many lives. I think the people themselves need to get revelation. I don't trust a soul anymore to speak for God.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think revelations are overrated. Warren Jeffs gave zillions of revelations and created havoc on so many lives. I think the people themselves need to get revelation. I don't trust a soul anymore to speak for God.

Novices in receiving revelation need teachers and those who can guide them.

Everyone struggles and sometimes need to rely to a degree on the light of others and having someone you can rely on in those moments is a huge boon.

Organizationally we need someone to receive revelation for the organization.