The Nehor Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Tacenda said: Then some on this thread are gaslighting, lol! I would explain but the Danite Psyops division has to keep its secrets. Just know if you start hearing very loud nonstop yodeling music outside your residence that you have crossed a line.
MustardSeed Posted June 28, 2019 Author Posted June 28, 2019 There’s an old black and white movie that can help clarify the definition of Gaslighting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film)
Tacenda Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 55 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I would explain but the Danite Psyops division has to keep its secrets. Just know if you start hearing very loud nonstop yodeling music outside your residence that you have crossed a line. Haha thanks for the warning! What the heck is Psyops? 29 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Here is a fun example of gaslighting. Nehor do you create these comics?
The Nehor Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: Haha thanks for the warning! What the heck is Psyops? Nehor do you create these comics? No, they come from here: https://xkcd.com/
Calm Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: What the heck is Psyops https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations_(United_States)
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 8 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: I can simply tell you that what you know to be true, never really happened. Mate, this is precisely what you and other critics attempt to do in almost every post. 4
Tacenda Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 22 minutes ago, Calm said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations_(United_States) Thanks, I did find it a bit ago, thanks for the trouble.
mfbukowski Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 Are we really debating the meaning of a word, when there is no standard or way to establish who is "right"? Clearly those who think there is such an objective standard are gaslighting. 1
provoman Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 8 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Are we really debating the meaning of a word, when there is no standard or way to establish who is "right"? Clearly those who think there is such an objective standard are gaslighting. stop gaslighting
Scott Lloyd Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 17 hours ago, MustardSeed said: Gaslighting is a term often misused when the term “manipulating” would be more applicable. The term Gaslight means to attempt to convince someone that their reality is not real. For example, you put your keys on the counter. I hide the keys, you can’t find them, I tell you that you must be going crazy. It’s an intentional effort to make you think you’ve lost your marbles. This is true. Can you cite an example where the term has been misapplied?
provoman Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 Thinking back on my experiences I can identify several times gaslighting was used against. Me: I felt the Spirit Other: No you did not, that was just your subconscience or heartburn. ---------------------- Me: I had experiences, that are Divine in origin. Other: No you did not, and here is an experiment to prove you did not. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 17 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: You're right that calling something a manipulation may often be more accurate. But I don't have to tell you you're going crazy to gaslight. I can simply tell you that what you know to be true, never really happened. For example- If I know I was taught X my entire life, but then someone tells me I wasn't taught X, but rather Y, then I might start to doubt myself and think I'm going crazy. I doubt my own experience because someone who knows better is telling my I was never taught X. So if I believe X, it is my fault. I think that is legit gaslighting. IOW- ALL gaslighting is a manipulation, but not all manipulations are gaslighting. 17 hours ago, Calm said: If the intent isn't to drive the person to doubt their sanity, it isn't gaslighting. It may be rewriting history, but trying to convince someone something false is true is not the same thing as trying to get them to doubt theirselves. (Themselves. I don’t believe “theirselves” is a recognized word.) Someone here said “gaslighting” is overused. I agree with that, and misapplication is part of its overuse. For example if I disagree with someone on the proper interpretation of a statement when it is considered in context, to contradict the person is not gaslighting. It is merely expressing disagreement. To accuse someone of gaslighting is as much as to accuse him of dishonesty. It constitutes fighting words and ought to be done sparingly, if at all.
provoman Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Someone here said “gaslighting” is overused. I agree with that, and misapplication is part of its overuse. For example if I disagree with someone on the proper interpretation of a statement when it is considered in context, to contradict the person is not gaslighting. It is merely expressing disagreement. To accuse someone of gaslighting is as much as to accuse him of dishonesty. It constitutes fighting words and ought to be done sparingly, if at all. I see the term used so often on other forums, that for me, it has become a "when did stop beating your spouse" type statement. That is, in my experience it is not used to correct an error, rather it is used to as an avoidance tactic to having to address specifics of an discussion. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, provoman said: I see the term used so often on other forums, that for me, it has become a "when did stop beating your spouse" type statement. That is, in my experience it is not used to correct an error, rather it is used to as an avoidance tactic to having to address specifics of an discussion. Or a bludgeon with which to beat someone. 1
The Nehor Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 50 minutes ago, provoman said: Thinking back on my experiences I can identify several times gaslighting was used against. Me: I felt the Spirit Other: No you did not, that was just your subconscience or heartburn. ---------------------- Me: I had experiences, that are Divine in origin. Other: No you did not, and here is an experiment to prove you did not. That is not really gaslighting. They are trying to convince you that you are wrong but not that you are crazy or trying fill you with self-doubt or undermine your confidence in your judgement in general. 2
provoman Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, The Nehor said: That is not really gaslighting. They are trying to convince you that you are wrong but not that you are crazy or trying fill you with self-doubt or undermine your confidence in your judgement in general. Some interpretations, I have read, of gaslight involve causing someone to question their own reality - by telling me my experiences are not spiritual or divine, the person is wanting me to question my own reality. Edited June 28, 2019 by provoman
HappyJackWagon Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: (Themselves. I don’t believe “theirselves” is a recognized word.) Someone here said “gaslighting” is overused. I agree with that, and misapplication is part of its overuse. For example if I disagree with someone on the proper interpretation of a statement when it is considered in context, to contradict the person is not gaslighting. It is merely expressing disagreement. To accuse someone of gaslighting is as much as to accuse him of dishonesty. It constitutes fighting words and ought to be done sparingly, if at all. I can't tell who you are trying to correct or why. Did either Calm or I say "theirselves"? Definitely not in the quotes linked in your post. I agree that gaslighting implies dishonesty. It is about a person's motive for saying something that isn't correct. I often say things incorrectly but it's usually just because I don't know any better. So it would seem the motives for why a person would gaslight, would be a) to make a person doubt themselves so they are easier to manipulate b) deflect blame from oneself c) sadism d) I'm sure there are others but I can't think of them But I think it's interesting to note that gaslighting isn't necessarily just about making a person think they are insane. It's about power and manipulation.
Amulek Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 17 hours ago, SettingDogStar said: We often just believe anything that is said at the "top" even if it isn't totally true or historically inaccurate [...] I have never been taught to believe "anything that is said at the 'top.'" I have always been taught that it is my responsibility to gain a personal testimony of all truths. However, with respect to the other half of your statement, I readily admit to believing lots of things that aren't historically inaccurate. 1
The Nehor Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 50 minutes ago, provoman said: Some interpretations, I have read, of gaslight involve causing someone to question their own reality - by telling me my experiences are not spiritual or divine, the person is wanting me to question my own reality. Sort of but I think the word is diluted in that case. Gaslighting is a pejorative term and I believe it should only be used it there is malice or a conscious attempt to harm the person, not the idea. If someone denies your spiritual experience while believing or knowing it is real that would be gaslighting in my mind. This means devils are compulsive gaslighters. 4
Scott Lloyd Posted June 29, 2019 Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: I can't tell who you are trying to correct or why. Did either Calm or I say "theirselves"? Definitely not in the quotes linked in your post. I agree that gaslighting implies dishonesty. It is about a person's motive for saying something that isn't correct. I often say things incorrectly but it's usually just because I don't know any better. So it would seem the motives for why a person would gaslight, would be a) to make a person doubt themselves so they are easier to manipulate b) deflect blame from oneself c) sadism d) I'm sure there are others but I can't think of them But I think it's interesting to note that gaslighting isn't necessarily just about making a person think they are insane. It's about power and manipulation. I was referring to Calm’s post. She used “theirselves.” Perhaps she later corrected it, which, of course, would make my correction appear meaningless. Gaslighting has a specific definition. It does not apply merely to disagreement, nor does it always apply to manipulation, although that is its intent. I’ll give you an example from this board of when I was on the receiving end of misapplication of the term “gaslighting.” In a discussion about President Hinckley’s response to an interview question about the Lorenzo Snow couplet, I disputed that President Hinckley had lied. I argued that, viewed in context, his words were true and made perfect sense in that he was referring only to the first half of the couplet. Rather than merely disagreeing with my interpretation of President Hinckley’s response, someone accused me of gaslighting. I was also called a fool in that discussion. If I had falsely claimed that President Hinckley never uttered the words at all, and if I had deceptively tried to make someone think the interview never actually took place, that would have been an instance of gaslighting. Edited June 29, 2019 by Scott Lloyd
Calm Posted June 29, 2019 Posted June 29, 2019 9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Themselves. I don’t believe “theirselves” is a recognized word.) I am stumbling over words right now speaking, not surprised it is showing up in my writing.
Tacenda Posted June 29, 2019 Posted June 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Calm said: I am stumbling over words right now speaking, not surprised it is showing up in my writing. Lately I've been putting down the wrong -their, they're, there- and know exactly what is correct but type the wrong one, and have to edit a lot.
MustardSeed Posted June 29, 2019 Author Posted June 29, 2019 14 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: This is true. Can you cite an example where the term has been misapplied? I’m happy to pm you if you like.
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