CBD oil?

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Hashimoto's is basically an auto-immune disorder. The only ways I know to address it are to decrease the body's auto-immune response or if it get's bad, to remove the thyroid. My wife's condition has essentially stabilized - the amount of thyroid she has to supplement, hasn't really gone up much, and at times has gone down. But, yes, if she had it removed and had no supplements, I believe she would die. The only way to address it then would be to "make your own supplement" by eating animal thyroid glands - so it is not like someone would be totally out of options.

I am very intrigued by your comment that you believe CBD helped your thyroid, but right now I think my wife will shy away from CBD, and I have to admit that I am somewhat dubious of the claim. However, the body is a complex factory of chemical reactions, and I do not pretend to even begin to understand the modes of action of CBD. Perhaps it can help the brain in a way which helps certain thyroid dysfunction. 

https://infinitecbd.com/the-impact-cbd-has-on-thyroid-disease-disorder/

Yet another article about it. Also, I belong to a private FB group called "Cannabis Oil Success Stories". Many discuss their success with treating with CBD. If you care to read the stories, you could join and put in "thyroid" in the "Search this group" on the left. But I understand how you're leary of this, it's all so new to us now, but for thousands of years it was what people used for medicine.

[vancrideout]

CBD helps Fight Fatigue May Speed Recovery When you work out. Cortisol levels CBD oils help maintain a healthy cortisol balance, Catabolic hormones are those in body which cause breakdown of muscle tissue.

[Jeanne]

I have been on CBD oil for about 5 months now in hope that it would help ease my mind and give me appetite .  I believe it works pretty good, that is, I notice the difference if I miss a day.

[Bernard Gui]

I have arthritis in both hands that makes it difficult and sometimes painful to play the violin. I’ve tried several OTC creams and one prescription ibuprofen cream, but nothing seems to help very much. So I thought I would give CBD ointment a try. It has relieved significant pain in the knuckle of my left forefinger several times, but the jury is still out.

I have no qualms using the ointment from a WoW perspective, but it is a little weird going into the shops.  I don’t feel good about taking it internally because of both WoW and  lack of scientific testing concerns. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[The Nehor]

26 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I have arthritis in both hands that makes it difficult and sometimes painful to play the violin. I’ve tried several OTC creams and one prescription ibuprofen cream, but nothing seems to help very much. So I thought I would give CBD ointment a try. It has relieved significant pain in the knuckle of my left forefinger several times, but the jury is still out.

I have no qualms using the ointment at from a WoW perspective, but it is a little weird going into the shops.  I don’t feel good about taking it internally because of both WoW and  lack of scientific  testing concerns. 

The placebo effect can be incredibly strong. We are seeing the same kind of thing playing out in this pandemic where anecdotal recovery stories are being used to try to hawk miracle drugs. These are often failing in real clinical tests.

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The placebo effect can be incredibly strong. We are seeing the same kind of thing playing out in this pandemic where anecdotal recovery stories are being used to try to hawk miracle drugs. These are often failing in real clinical tests.

It has not worked on my lower thumb joints, but it did work within minutes on my forefinger knuckle. The arthritis bumps are right under the skin there, but the thumb problems are deeper in the joints.

A doctor friend tells me if you use something for several weeks and nothing changes, it most likely is ineffective. 

That’s why I said the jury is still out. 🙂  

Edited April 9, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

It has not worked on my lower thumb joints, but it did work within minutes on my forefinger knuckle. The arthritis bumps are right under the skin there, but the thumb problems are deeper in the joints.

A doctor friend tells me if you use something for several weeks and nothing changes, it most likely is ineffective. 

That’s why I said the jury is still out. 🙂  

Not trying to be a downer. I do hope it works.

[bluebell]

I know of people who have had good results with CBD oil, but nothing long term.  In their experiences, it has always quite working eventually.  

[RevTestament]

15 hours ago, bluebell said:

I know of people who have had good results with CBD oil, but nothing long term.  In their experiences, it has always quite working eventually.  

 

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Not trying to be a downer. I do hope it works.

I have never used it long term, so I cannot speak to that. I used CBD last year after my hernia surgery to relieve itching during the healing process, which it did excellently, and the minor amount of pain I was having, because the ibuprofen did not relieve the itching, and I felt was beginning to cause some tummy issues. I used it again this year after another surgery. I was having a somewhat complicated pain presentation because I believe another medication was interfering with my acetominophen. Until I figured that out, I was having to resort to hydrocodone, which did not bring my pain all the way down, so I supplemented with CBD, which brought my pain down to almost 0. When I began to believe the ibuprofen was contributing to tummy upset, I again resorted to CBD, to relieve what pain I had after acetominophen. It doesn't bring level 4 pain down to 0, but it does bring pain down a notch or two, and I was grateful for it. 

[Stargazer]

17 hours ago, bluebell said:

I know of people who have had good results with CBD oil, but nothing long term.  In their experiences, it has always quite working eventually.  

A man I know has had some depression issues, and at the suggestion of his family's doctor gave the herb called St. John's Wort a try. He said it did help him, but only for a few weeks. After he was no longer getting the relief (he said it gradually became less effective), he quit using it for a time. But when he started using it again some months later, he again got the effect.  I gathered from that there may be a toleration issue -- and there may be the same with CBD oil.

If we're not entirely dealing with the placebo effect after all.

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, RevTestament said:

 

I have never used it long term, so I cannot speak to that. I used CBD last year after my hernia surgery to relieve itching during the healing process, which it did excellently, and the minor amount of pain I was having, because the ibuprofen did not relieve the itching, and I felt was beginning to cause some tummy issues. I used it again this year after another surgery. I was having a somewhat complicated pain presentation because I believe another medication was interfering with my acetominophen. Until I figured that out, I was having to resort to hydrocodone, which did not bring my pain all the way down, so I supplemented with CBD, which brought my pain down to almost 0. When I began to believe the ibuprofen was contributing to tummy upset, I again resorted to CBD, to relieve what pain I had after acetominophen. It doesn't bring level 4 pain down to 0, but it does bring pain down a notch or two, and I was grateful for it. 

When my late wife was dealing with pain in connection with her progressing cancer there came a point at which the drug they were prescribing for pain (hydrocodone, I think) was not working as well as it had been. Our daughter suggested giving marijuana a try (it was totally legal in our state by then).  She did start using it sparingly for breakthrough pain, and it worked in concert with hydrocodone to manage the pain. But only for a few weeks, as the pain continued to worsen. Finally she was being given time-release morphine, and that was all she used until the end. But the MJ helped bridge the gap between medications.

[Stargazer]

On 4/9/2020 at 5:35 PM, The Nehor said:

The placebo effect can be incredibly strong. We are seeing the same kind of thing playing out in this pandemic where anecdotal recovery stories are being used to try to hawk miracle drugs. These are often failing in real clinical tests.

I wish I could remember where I read this, and it might have been in Scientific American or some other science magazine, but there was this article written by a cardiac surgeon who had been involved in testing a surgical procedure dealing with the particular problem(s) that bypass surgery is now used for. How do you test a surgical procedure do you ask? He said that they did a single-blind study, where half of a batch of patients needing treatment were operated on, with their chests being opened up, and the procedure done.  The control group simply received the same incision, and were promptly sutured back up without their chests being opened; the procedure under test was not performed.  The individuals receiving both real and placebo treatments believed they had been treated with the procedure under study.  The results?  The patients receiving the placebo treatment fared better than the ones receiving the real treatment!  This was apparently a real result -- they actually experienced improvement!  Of course, some of the non-control group received relief as well.  The surgeon said that the study proved the procedure wasn't medically viable, so it was abandoned.

He used this as a springboard to suggest the use of placebos as a last-gasp drug treatment in cases where the standard ones failed. He wrote something like this: after nothing else seems to have helped, the doctor says to the patient, "Well, I'm at the end of my possibilities, but there is one last thing that might work." Pulls out a bottle of sugar pills. "Try taking these twice a day for a week. It's something that only very rarely works when nothing else will -- and we have no idea why. There are no known side-effects, so it will either work or it won't."

Note that he was not advocating that doctors actually do this, just that it might be something that the medical community could conceivably consider doing. In short he was proposing the placebo effect as an accepted strategy.

[Tacenda]

10 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I wish I could remember where I read this, and it might have been in Scientific American or some other science magazine, but there was this article written by a cardiac surgeon who had been involved in testing a surgical procedure dealing with the particular problem(s) that bypass surgery is now used for. How do you test a surgical procedure do you ask? He said that they did a single-blind study, where half of a batch of patients needing treatment were operated on, with their chests being opened up, and the procedure done.  The control group simply received the same incision, and were promptly sutured back up without their chests being opened; the procedure under test was not performed.  The individuals receiving both real and placebo treatments believed they had been treated with the procedure under study.  The results?  The patients receiving the placebo treatment fared better than the ones receiving the real treatment!  This was apparently a real result -- they actually experienced improvement!  Of course, some of the non-control group received relief as well.  The surgeon said that the study proved the procedure wasn't medically viable, so it was abandoned.

He used this as a springboard to suggest the use of placebos as a last-gasp drug treatment in cases where the standard ones failed. He wrote something like this: after nothing else seems to have helped, the doctor says to the patient, "Well, I'm at the end of my possibilities, but there is one last thing that might work." Pulls out a bottle of sugar pills. "Try taking these twice a day for a week. It's something that only very rarely works when nothing else will -- and we have no idea why. There are no known side-effects, so it will either work or it won't."

Note that he was not advocating that doctors actually do this, just that it might be something that the medical community could conceivably consider doing. In short he was proposing the placebo effect as an accepted strategy.

Thank goodness for actual tests that prove other wise. Like x-rays of shrinking tumors https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/03/18/cbd-oil-shrinks-tumor.aspx or lab reports (mine) showing I no longer needed meds for my hypothyroidism.

[Stargazer]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Thank goodness for actual tests that prove other wise. Like x-rays of shrinking tumors https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/03/18/cbd-oil-shrinks-tumor.aspx or lab reports (mine) showing I no longer needed meds for my hypothyroidism.

Sorry, not sure what you're saying here, actually.  Are you (or Mercola) saying CBD oil shrinks tumors? I have a doubt about that -- Dr. Mercola is not what I would call a reliable source. Your lab report said you no longer needed meds? But you still did?  I'm confused.

What I was talking about was a surgeon who in a controlled legitimate study found that a placebo treatment got better results than a real treatment -- studies like this are used to validate whether a treatment modality actually works as opposed to merely triggering the placebo effect. And if the placebo effect works better than the real treatment, the real one is invalidated.  This was not saying that they should promote the placebo treatment as a real treatment!   Although the actual surgeon was suggesting that the placebo effect could be tried as a last resort in some cases, if nothing else worked. 

By the way, just because something succeeds as a placebo effect doesn't mean that the "fix" was fake.  Science has no idea how the placebo effect works -- but it sometimes does. Some people claim that prayer and priesthood blessings that work are merely results of the placebo effect. 

[RevTestament]

8 hours ago, Stargazer said:

When my late wife was dealing with pain in connection with her progressing cancer there came a point at which the drug they were prescribing for pain (hydrocodone, I think) was not working as well as it had been. Our daughter suggested giving marijuana a try (it was totally legal in our state by then).  She did start using it sparingly for breakthrough pain, and it worked in concert with hydrocodone to manage the pain. But only for a few weeks, as the pain continued to worsen. Finally she was being given time-release morphine, and that was all she used until the end. But the MJ helped bridge the gap between medications.

My dad is in a long term pain situation(return of polio) and says that CBD had no noticeable effect for him - at least after a week or two. I used a weak dose of CBD sublingually on myself. It wasn't any high quality stuff, but was made from stems. I wouldn't mind trying some high quality stuff from  AC/DC or Charlotte's web on my father to see if it helps him better. He recently wrote me about his life with polio, and I felt so bad for him - chronic pain is a bear.

[Tacenda]

10 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Sorry, not sure what you're saying here, actually.  Are you (or Mercola) saying CBD oil shrinks tumors? I have a doubt about that -- Dr. Mercola is not what I would call a reliable source. Your lab report said you no longer needed meds? But you still did?  I'm confused.

What I was talking about was a surgeon who in a controlled legitimate study found that a placebo treatment got better results than a real treatment -- studies like this are used to validate whether a treatment modality actually works as opposed to merely triggering the placebo effect. And if the placebo effect works better than the real treatment, the real one is invalidated.  This was not saying that they should promote the placebo treatment as a real treatment!   Although the actual surgeon was suggesting that the placebo effect could be tried as a last resort in some cases, if nothing else worked. 

By the way, just because something succeeds as a placebo effect doesn't mean that the "fix" was fake.  Science has no idea how the placebo effect works -- but it sometimes does. Some people claim that prayer and priesthood blessings that work are merely results of the placebo effect. 

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and was on Synthroid. After a few years started having issues such as high anxiety, weight gain, brain fog and severe panic attacks on the freeway. I ran across cannabis for the prevention of Alzheimer's, studies are ongoing that it can rid the brain of plaque. So I ordered it from Colorado and wondered if it would help with my hypothyroidism too and asked my doctor if I could go off the meds. My doctor said I could try it for 3 months and at the end get tested again. So that's what I did, and the lab work came back that I no longer needed the medication. Could that have been a placebo effect? I don't think so. 

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and was on Synthroid. After a few years started having issues such as high anxiety, weight gain, brain fog and severe panic attacks on the freeway. I ran across cannabis for the prevention of Alzheimer's, studies are ongoing that it can rid the brain of plaque. So I ordered it from Colorado and wondered if it would help with my hypothyroidism too and asked my doctor if I could go off the meds. My doctor said I could try it for 3 months and at the end get tested again. So that's what I did, and the lab work came back that I no longer needed the medication. Could that have been a placebo effect? I don't think so. 

Yay!  

No, it doesn't sound like the placebo effect.  The only problem with cannabis as a medication is the irrational fear of it as a recreational substance. Not wanting to address this in a discussion (I think it has been discussed to death on this board) that's all I'll say about it.

But a good outcome of a treatment, even if it is due to placebo effect, is not (necessarily) illusory. If a sugar pill cures you, for example, who cares if it was the placebo effect?

Edited April 11, 2020 by Stargazer

[strappinglad]

If a sugar pill can have a positive result on an ailment, would a sugar cookie do even better because it is a bit bigger? 😏

[pogi]

On 4/9/2020 at 10:06 AM, Bernard Gui said:

I have arthritis in both hands that makes it difficult and sometimes painful to play the violin. I’ve tried several OTC creams and one prescription ibuprofen cream, but nothing seems to help very much. So I thought I would give CBD ointment a try. It has relieved significant pain in the knuckle of my left forefinger several times, but the jury is still out.

I have no qualms using the ointment from a WoW perspective, but it is a little weird going into the shops.  I don’t feel good about taking it internally because of both WoW and  lack of scientific testing concerns. 

You might try Curcumin (turmeric).  I have read some promising things about its effectiveness with some types of arthritis -  as effective as high dose NSAIDs, without the nasty GI side effects from long term use.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

You might try Curcumin (turmeric).  I have read some promising things about its effectiveness with some types of arthritis -  as effective as high dose NSAIDs, without the nasty GI side effects from long term use.

At this point, I'm pretty much willing to try anything that won't cause other harm.

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, strappinglad said:

If a sugar pill can have a positive result on an ailment, would a sugar cookie do even better because it is a bit bigger? 😏

I have found that Sister Gui's chocolate chip cookies cure just about whatever ails you.

[RevTestament]

14 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I have found that Sister Gui's chocolate chip cookies cure just about whatever ails you.

Make that oatmeal chocolate chip cookies, and she could lead me around like a lost sheep....

[Bernard Gui]

16 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Make that oatmeal chocolate chip cookies, and she could lead me around like a lost sheep....

Yes. Oatmeal, date bits, and shredded coconut. 

[2BizE]

No, the WoW specifies you should use the herbs with prudence like CBD and Marijuana.  It also says you should drink mild beverages of barley (beer). 

[Tacenda]

3 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

No, the WoW specifies you should use the herbs with prudence like CBD and Marijuana.  It also says you should drink mild beverages of barley (beer). 

My good friend takes Adderall for Narcolepsy and another drug for severe restless syndrome. But refuses to take CBD, I guess it comes with a stigma or something but not harmful like the meth in Adderall and her other drug, crazy! I love her to bits, but she won't go there yet. Maybe she'll give in like Bernard Gui did, way to go @Bernard Gui, I hope it works for as long as possible. 

I have issues with almost anything big pharm puts out, but do understand there are needed drugs too.