Veganism

[CMZ]

I am seeing a huge rise in veganism over the last few years. I have a lot of thoughts on it myself but wanted to throw it out to this crowd who is coming from an LDS perspective (and I know there's still a lot of different perspectives in this group). I 100% get that we should be kind to animals and I don't like animals being kept in squalid, cramped conditions; but remove that from the equation and there is still animals being killed for food. And numerous scriptures seem to be okay with that (including D&C 59, D&C 89, Nephi being led to game for food, Jesus eating fish and providing fish to others for food, etc.), while also saying that it shouldn't be used in excess. But every day it seems that 10,000 new vegans are created and they are extremely vocal about how bad it is to ever have meat, or even to have eggs, milk, honey, etc. Thoughts?

[Hamba Tuhan]

I think the Word of Wisdon is pretty clear about the role of flesh in our diets. The Lord, however, seems fond of both milk and honey!

[Bernard Gui]

1 minute ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think the Word of Wisdon is pretty clear about the role of flesh in our diets. The Lord, however, seems fond of both milk and honey!

And bread and locusts.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

26 minutes ago, CMZ said:

I am seeing a huge rise in veganism over the last few years. I have a lot of thoughts on it myself but wanted to throw it out to this crowd who is coming from an LDS perspective (and I know there's still a lot of different perspectives in this group). I 100% get that we should be kind to animals and I don't like animals being kept in squalid, cramped conditions; but remove that from the equation and there is still animals being killed for food. And numerous scriptures seem to be okay with that (including D&C 59, D&C 89, Nephi being led to game for food, Jesus eating fish and providing fish to others for food, etc.), while also saying that it shouldn't be used in excess. But every day it seems that 10,000 new vegans are created and they are extremely vocal about how bad it is to ever have meat, or even to have eggs, milk, honey, etc. Thoughts?

Depends on what is available. Do you eat to live or live to eat?

Edited February 25, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[CMZ]

7 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think the Word of Wisdon is pretty clear about the role of flesh in our diets. The Lord, however, seems fond of both milk and honey!

Right along with the rise of veganism is a huge increase in people saying to never ever have any sort of dairy product EVER!

[Hamba Tuhan]

13 minutes ago, CMZ said:

Right along with the rise of veganism is a huge increase in people saying to never ever have any sort of dairy product EVER!

I know. I had a flaky housemate when I was studying in America who tried to convince me that milk was bad. He actually ran me through a script one day that he'd found in one of his flaky books, asking me to imagine a businessman in a nice car stopping by a paddock, climbing the fence and then suckling straight from a cow. The aim, obviously, was to generate an emotive 'yuck' response, but I just pointed out that I used to love drinking milk straight from the cow when I was a little boy. He seemed disappointed. Then I pointed out to him all the 'milk and honey' verses in the scriptures. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan

[CMZ]

6 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I know. I had a flaky housemate when I was studying in America who tried to convince me that milk was bad. He actually ran me through a script one day that he'd found in one of his flaky books, asking me to imagine a businessman in a nice car stopping by a paddock, climbing the fence and then suckling straight from a cow. The aim, obviously, was to generate an emotive 'yuck' response, but I just pointed out that I used to love drinking milk straight from the cow when I was a little boy. He seemed disappointed. Then I pointed out to him all the 'milk and honey' verses in the scriptures. 

And pretty much all fruits and vegetables grew out of the dirt at some point, or are even pulled right out of the dirt.

[Robert F. Smith]

45 minutes ago, CMZ said:

......................., or even to have eggs, milk, honey, etc. Thoughts?

Should bears be prohibited from eating wild honey?  Should all babies be fed ersatz milk formula?  How far dos this go?

Then there is Jordan Peterson, who only eats meat.

[strappinglad]

Natural selection will take care of those who deny that humans are omnivores

[Storm Rider]

59 minutes ago, CMZ said:

I am seeing a huge rise in veganism over the last few years. I have a lot of thoughts on it myself but wanted to throw it out to this crowd who is coming from an LDS perspective (and I know there's still a lot of different perspectives in this group). I 100% get that we should be kind to animals and I don't like animals being kept in squalid, cramped conditions; but remove that from the equation and there is still animals being killed for food. And numerous scriptures seem to be okay with that (including D&C 59, D&C 89, Nephi being led to game for food, Jesus eating fish and providing fish to others for food, etc.), while also saying that it shouldn't be used in excess. But every day it seems that 10,000 new vegans are created and they are extremely vocal about how bad it is to ever have meat, or even to have eggs, milk, honey, etc. Thoughts?

When I hear vegans talk, the moment they go into the spiel of poor animals my eyes roll back really badly. Most of the time I get the impression that these folks grew up in concrete jungles and don't have a clue about how real farming happens. In the last day or two I read an article on why an individual chose to be a vegan and its merits. She way into the poor animals; how cramped they are in cages, etc., etc., etc. She must be talking about really giant farming and ranching. Most of my extended family were all small farmers and ranchers. Chickens were in coops and other animals were in pens (pigs), cows had huge, fenced fields, etc. Do I feel bad when I eat meat, butter, cheese, etc.? No on your life.  

If some individual wants to be a vegan, please - knock yourself out - just leave off on the annoying, silly gibbering about why everyone else should be like you. 

I am more comfortable with those that just choose to be vegetarians - they are more sane...maybe because I have been around a lot of Jains and they just did not have a lot of hangups about being a vegetarian. 

That is my soapbox for today.

[The Nehor]

I agree that people in the west eat too much meat and particularly in the US it has been subsidized to an absurd degree. If we stopped prices would rise and the problem would take care of itself.

For some reason the red state ranchers seem to be of two minds about government welfare. Then again to a lesser degree this is true of US agriculture too. Someone needs to smash the corn syrup lobby to little bits.

[MustardSeed]

To each his own. 

Mormons eat a lot of sugar.  I have no CFR.  But I’ve existed, so I’ve seen things.  We are pretty particular about certain aspects of the w of w but not about others.  I think if I were to curb my behavior to be more respectful to the body it would be to cut my sugar intake in half. 

Environmentalism is funny... I spent a week in an exotic resort recently and all my drinks had flimsy paper straws for drinks served in...you guessed it.... plastic cups.  

I feel like I’m nice enough to animals by keeping my cat alive despite her tendency to eliminate behind my sofa. 

[Calm]

I have tried to go vegetarian.  That made me sick (did it the intelligent way too).  I find at minimum I need fish for protein every other day.  I definitely could eat less than I do now though.  Otoh, going low carb is when I feel best.

[Hamba Tuhan]

17 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Mormons eat a lot of sugar. 

I think the last time I bought a kilo bag of sugar was about two years ago, and I still have most of it. But maybe that's cos I'm a Latter-day Saint?

[mrmarklin]

I didn’t evolve to the top of the food chain to become a vegan or a vegetarian. 😎

[MustardSeed]

18 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think the last time I bought a kilo bag of sugar was about two years ago, and I still have most of it. But maybe that's cos I'm a Latter-day Saint?

Whoops, there I go being incorrect again.

[Calm]

This may be useful to see how things measure up by state:

https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/data-statistics/index.html

Checking it out now, but Utah appears to be lower than the national average in obesity.

I think they are lower in the measure of sugar drinks for adolescents, but of course not the only thing with sugar we eat.

If reading correctly (because it is not closely), Utah seems about average for adults back in 2013.

https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/data-statistics/sugar-sweetened-beverages-intake.html

Utah also is not just LDS or the only type of culture LDS have, I use it only as a possible indicator for general LDS behaviour.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

I started drinking cold press veggie juice daily in October.  I have found that people don’t want to hear about it. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by MustardSeed

[MustardSeed]

According to Bloomberg, a research company, Utah is known now as the “Sweet Tooth Capital of the United States,” consuming twice as much candy than any other state in America.

[Hamba Tuhan]

11 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

“Research conducted at BYU on religion and obesity shows Mormons are 34% more likely to be overweight than members of other religions.

You didn't provide a link, so I did a Google search. Here's the actual quote:

Quote

According to a 2006 study titled “Religion and Body Weight in Utah” by BYU health science professor Ray Merrill, Mormons at the time were on average 5.7 pounds heavier and 34 percent more likely to be obese than non-religious individuals in Utah. A similarly widespread study hasn’t been conducted since, but this data shows that Mormons have ways to go with adopting healthier eating habits and cutting excessive sugar out of their diets.

And some more interesting quotes from the same link:

Quote

Not all data regarding religion and weight is negative, however. Utah’s obesity report shows that Utah has the sixth lowest obesity rate in the nation, but it’s also clear from the data that this is likely because Utah is the “youngest state” with a median population age of 30.7 years old. The 18- to 25-year-old population in Utah has an obesity rate of 8.9 percent while those aged 45–64 have an obesity rate of 33 percent.

A 2006 study titled “Does Religion Increase the Prevalence and Incidence of Obesity in Adulthood?” shows a positive correlation between certain religious practices and obesity among American Christians (particularly in the South) and a negative correlation with other practices. The study showed that “women who reported higher rates of church attendance had a lower risk of becoming obese.”

Men are also less likely to be or become obese the more they turn to religion for consolation, according to the study. The scientists hypothesized that men may turn to religion — instead of food — as a form of comfort and therefore are more likely to avoid obesity.

Some data and other experiments cited in the 2006 study shows that identifying as religious does increase a person’s likelihood of being obese, but other data shows this may be because many religious people don’t smoke (or smoke as much) as non-religious people and therefore they don’t have that appetite suppressing factor playing a part in their weight.

The 2006 study says, “People who regularly attend church, pray, or read the Bible tend to have lower blood pressure than less religious people.”

People who are religious are also hospitalized less often, are less likely to suffer from depression, have a stronger sense of well-being and life satisfaction, stronger immune systems and better longevity, according to the study.

Anecdotally, we usually have a missionary couple from America in our stake. I've often joked that, regardless of which couple it has been, everything they cook is based on two ingredients: butter and sugar. Though I've always blamed this on their being American ...

[CV75]

10 hours ago, CMZ said:

I am seeing a huge rise in veganism over the last few years. I have a lot of thoughts on it myself but wanted to throw it out to this crowd who is coming from an LDS perspective (and I know there's still a lot of different perspectives in this group). I 100% get that we should be kind to animals and I don't like animals being kept in squalid, cramped conditions; but remove that from the equation and there is still animals being killed for food. And numerous scriptures seem to be okay with that (including D&C 59, D&C 89, Nephi being led to game for food, Jesus eating fish and providing fish to others for food, etc.), while also saying that it shouldn't be used in excess. But every day it seems that 10,000 new vegans are created and they are extremely vocal about how bad it is to ever have meat, or even to have eggs, milk, honey, etc. Thoughts?

I am wary of any "-ism*" just I am wary of any "-ite" as described in the Book of Mormon (4 Nephi 1:17).

*Per the online dictionary, "a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement."

The argument can be made that such practices are expensive and actually for the economically privileged who could be using their resources for more global benefit. I am guilty to a degree; I use plant-derived (vegan) designer protein as part of my diet to reduce the dairy and meat sources.

[Gray]

11 hours ago, CMZ said:

I am seeing a huge rise in veganism over the last few years. I have a lot of thoughts on it myself but wanted to throw it out to this crowd who is coming from an LDS perspective (and I know there's still a lot of different perspectives in this group). I 100% get that we should be kind to animals and I don't like animals being kept in squalid, cramped conditions; but remove that from the equation and there is still animals being killed for food. And numerous scriptures seem to be okay with that (including D&C 59, D&C 89, Nephi being led to game for food, Jesus eating fish and providing fish to others for food, etc.), while also saying that it shouldn't be used in excess. But every day it seems that 10,000 new vegans are created and they are extremely vocal about how bad it is to ever have meat, or even to have eggs, milk, honey, etc. Thoughts? 

I can certainly understand not wanting to eat meat for ethical reasons. However, I would draw the line at cheese and eggs. We have to have SOME joy in life, and cheese and eggs don't come from animal death.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Gray

[Walden]

21 minutes ago, Gray said:

I can certainly understand not wanting to eat meat for ethical reasons. However, I would draw the line at cheese and eggs. We have to have SOME joy in life, and cheese and eggs don't come from animal death.

Agreed, though a vegan would argue that eggs and cheese don't come from animal death, but rather, animal torture due to the squalid conditions of factory farms that produce much of the dairy that we consume.

Study after study confirms that a diet that is primarily plant-based leads to longer lifespans and less health issues such as heart disease, cancer, etc. 

[MustardSeed]

To be honest I think conversation around food is  much like conversation around religion ****imo****. 

People don’t like to be told that there is only one way to do it.

People are attached to their own way. 

Who's to say that one way of living is better than the next? Happiness is in the head. 

My way is good enough for me right now. I’m as healthy and as happy as I could be.  Even if you don’t believe me.

[Bernard Gui]

12 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

I am more comfortable with those that just choose to be vegetarians - they are more sane...

Are you comfortable with humanitarians?