Veganism

[Maidservant]

Something living has to die and be eaten in order for something else living to stay living.  On that basis, I don't have a problem eating meat.

However, I do think that a person eating meat ought to kill it themselves--hunting or raising it.  That I will never do, unless starving in the extreme.  Having said that, I still buy my hamburger at the grocery store, but I don't think I'm right in doing so.

BBQ Pork.  Nuf said.

The older I get, the more that for me, personally, I feel better, clearer, more energetic when I don't eat meat or dairy.  I do need a low carb, high protein diet, high fruits and greens.  My high protein is from nuts, seeds, and legumes.  I also need high fat, which I get from coconut.  I drink a smoothie a day, and have a salad a day (with nuts and seeds with the veggies).  I stopped eating sugar.  I'm about to stop eating all bread and pasta, and have whole grains only.  Eating that smoothie and salad turns off my hunger, even though I can eat as much as I want of 'the good stuff'.  I never count calories or stop snacking (I 'graze' all day) or limit portions or let myself go hungry.  I actually think I am becoming a breatharian or pranarian.  I haven't tried to (planet Earth, so much food, so little time used to be my motto and sorta still is), but I think that is what is happening.  I don't get hungry until between 11 and 2 pm.  I eat a smoothie and a huge salad and a normal dinner (casserole or whatnot).  But what used to be a huge salad and a huge supper are getting smaller just because my hunger turns off, my body says, 'thanks', I'm done' instead of cravings.

[Hamba Tuhan]

26 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

I stopped eating sugar.

I'm genuinely confused what people mean when they say/write this. I always just assume it means you don't buy sugar and therefore don't add it to foods or cook with it. But then I'm not sure. My milk is 4.5 per cent sugar. Do you consider consuming milk to be 'eating sugar'? On average, carrots are 4.7 per cent sugar, sweeter than milk, so do you include eating carrots as 'eating sugar'? Or are you just talking about not using any form of standalone sugar?

[Maidservant]

12 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I'm genuinely confused what people mean when they say/write this. I always just assume it means you don't buy sugar and therefore don't add it to foods or cook with it. But then I'm not sure. My milk is 4.5 per cent sugar. Do you consider consuming milk to be 'eating sugar'? On average, carrots are 4.7 per cent sugar, sweeter than milk, so do you include eating carrots as 'eating sugar'? Or are you just talking about not using any form of standalone sugar?

Lol, I understand food chemistry, and that sugar is a carbon based molecule found integrated into all fruits and vegetables etc.

I stopped eating 5 candy bars a day [etc], okay?   Sugar cane.   Also for now, no honey.

In fact, I still eat bread and salad dressing, and things like that, so I know there is sugar in those things too.

I also eat coconut sugar if I want, but I haven't had much occasion yet.

Anyway, I have my brain and energy back.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Maidservant

[RevTestament]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Chocolate is plant based, so endulge without shame or fear.

I wish I could, but I only like sweetened chocolate - usually with a good amount of milk fat.... But I do believe the chocolate itself is healthy. It seems when I hit about 50, my sweet tooth was enough to make me gain weight, so it is my weakness. But I dare say I eat less sugar than the typical American. But I have determined to eat less chips and other junk food - the jump in price this last year has helped that resolve. My yogurt may sound healthy, but it too I can't really eat without sweetening it. I buy it either somewhat presweetened or i add some kind of fruit jam/preserve. I often follow it with a fruit like grapefruit. It has gotten more difficult to get decent yogurt with no fillers like corn starch, so now I often mix my own. I also have a banana and raisins almost every morning, so I am already overweighted on the sugar.

The Loma Linda Adventists are largely pesco-vegetarians and typically eat about one helping of fish per day - so again, they are not strict vegans - and my assertion that the longest lived people are not strict vegans is not withdrawn. If I lived on the West or East Coast, I think I definitely would eat more fish, but my wife doesn't like fish for the most part. I love all kinds of fish and shellfish such as shrimp, crab and lobster. It is just pricey in Utah, so I eat my helping of beef or poultry instead. Tonight i made chili - I got about 5 oz of beef(my only meat for the day) with beans and some corn and tomato. Many people don't realize it, but a lot of the old canned foods were in cans lined with BPA - even when you think you are eating healthy, you can get all kinds of exposure to chemicals. The heightened scrutiny in recent years on the American food industry has helped though.

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

I stopped eating 5 candy bars a day [etc], okay?  

... I also eat coconut sugar if I want ...

So basically it means that you've stopped eating sweets and confectionery? 

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

I only like sweetened chocolate - usually with a good amount of milk fat....

I have a hot chocolate many mornings here in the office that I make with just cocoa powder, non-fat milk powder and water. I used to add a bit of sugar, but it got less and less, and now I've decided the milk is plenty sweet enough. I do use a bit more milk powder than one normally would, but I also use mounds of cocoa. I could be wrong, but I feel it's a pretty healthy way to enjoy chocolate.

[CMZ]

31 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

In fact, I still eat bread and salad dressing, and things like that, so I know there is sugar in those things too.

In the case of bread and salad dressing there is only sugar in them if someone put sugar in it.

[CMZ]

10 hours ago, Anijen said:

I know Dr. Duttan knew the chickens and eggs coming from places such as Michaels was healthier than organic free range ones..

Very interested to learn what exactly makes factory-farmed eggs more healthy.

[CMZ]

13 hours ago, Amulek said:

Speaking of squalid, cramped conditions, you know they literally shove plants underneath the ground and cover them with feces, right? I don't care how bad animals think they've got it - plants get it 100 times worse. It's totally barbaric. Sorry, but I'm with this guy.

 

Ha! I'm not the one you have to convince.

[CMZ]

12 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I believe the main problem with the Americans are lots of processed foods, drinks and other simple carbs, fried foods with vegetable oils, preservatives, and other additives, etc. I used to buy into the saturated fat claim, but the international data doesn't support that. The main problem is lots of simple carbs and sweets - one can still do that and be vegan - a vegan can be fat and have heart disease. Potato chips and corn chips are vegan - just sayin.

So, would potato chips be better if they were fried in animal fat rather than in vegetable oil?

[RevTestament]

21 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I have a hot chocolate many mornings here in the office that I make with just cocoa powder, non-fat milk powder and water. I used to add a bit of sugar, but it got less and less, and now I've decided the milk is plenty sweet enough. I do use a bit more milk powder than one normally would, but I also use mounds of cocoa. I could be wrong, but I feel it's a pretty healthy way to enjoy chocolate.

I feel a healthy way to partake of hot chocolate would be to mix the powdered cocoa with coconut milk... although some still are bound and determined to believe that coconut is a harmful saturated fat. However, I might advise staying away from the canned coconut milk unless you are sure the can is not BPA lined. At one time the highest known fat diet in the world was a little Polynesian island in the Pacific with about a 50% fat intake - no heart disease until American goods were introduced. Almost all the fat was coconut. Its anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties I'm sure did not hurt.

[Hamba Tuhan]

14 minutes ago, CMZ said:

In the case of bread and salad dressing there is only sugar in them if someone put sugar in it.

That's not entirely true in the case of bread. White wheat flour is 0.3 per cent sugar, and wholemeal is 0.4 per cent. But it's largely the case. Where I live, it's not standard practice to add sugar to bread at all. I'm not sure why that happens in America, but the result is something that reminds me of cake.

In the case of salad, I've never really got the point of bottled dressing either. I just add salt, cracked pepper, garlic, balsamic vinegar and olive oil. Done.

[Hamba Tuhan]

3 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

I feel a healthy way to partake of hot chocolate would be to mix the powdered cocoa with coconut milk ... 

I'm happy with my cow's milk, thanks.

Quote

I might advise staying away from the canned coconut milk unless you are sure the can is not BPA lined.

So you spend several hours per day producing your own coconut milk then?

Quote

At one time the highest known fat diet in the world was a little Polynesian island in the Pacific with about a 50% fat intake - no heart disease until American goods were introduced. Almost all the fat was coconut.

Link?

[CMZ]

6 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

That's not entirely true in the case of bread. White wheat flour is 0.3 per cent sugar, and wholemeal is 0.4 per cent. But it's largely the case. Where I live, it's not standard practice to add sugar to bread at all. I'm not sure why that happens in America, but the result is something that reminds me of cake.

In the case of salad, I've never really got the point of bottled dressing either. I just add salt, cracked pepper, garlic, balsamic vinegar and olive oil. Done.

Yes. I understand. Getting at people adding sugar beyond what's already in the flour. The point of it being added (and to other things that don't need it) is to get people hooked on it.

Your salad dressing recipe is very similar to mine.

[Hamba Tuhan]

3 minutes ago, CMZ said:

Your salad dressing recipe is very similar to mine.

Fresh lemon in place of the vinegar can also be nice, especially a very light, herb-filled salad!

[CMZ]

1 hour ago, Maidservant said:

I feel better, clearer, more energetic when I don't eat meat or dairy.

What is automatically bad about dairy?

[CMZ]

Just now, Hamba Tuhan said:

Fresh lemon in place of the vinegar can also be nice, especially a very light, herb-filled salad!

You just pretty much got at my difference.

[CMZ]

1 hour ago, Maidservant said:

I never count calories

Correct. When you're eating good stuff from nature you don't need to bother counting calories.

[CMZ]

14 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Where I live, it's not standard practice to add sugar to bread at all. I'm not sure why that happens in America, but the result is something that reminds me of cake.

I've heard that Europe doesn't have the same problem with rampant gluten-intolerance like we have here in America. My guess is that it's because Europe is not using grain that has become something other than what nature intended.

[RevTestament]

13 minutes ago, CMZ said:

So, would potato chips be better if they were fried in animal fat rather than in vegetable oil?

In this day and age I would say no. Any toxins in animals  are usually concentrated in their fat. I do not advise increasing intake of animal fats, and I will typically trim any excess fat on my stew meat. Many chips are fried in canola oil. It is cheap. The deal with most vegetable oils is that they were introduced in WW II to replace coconut oil and palm oil. After the war the American companies then went on an anti-saturated fat campaign to convince Americans to not reintroduce coconut oil. However, the international studies don't support the contention that all saturated fats are harmful. 

The thing about vegetable oils is that they load us up with omega 6 fats which aren't particularly helpful to us. Coconut oil also has mid-chain fatty acids which are not a saturated fat, and have anti fungal and anti-bacterial properties: lauric acid and caprylic acid. Olive oil is technically not a vegetable oil - it is a fruit. Have you ever had french fries fried with a blend of olive oil and peanut oil? Yum. I feel coconut oil would be another healthy choice for making potato chips - good luck finding those at the store though.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating eating potato chips. Potatoes are kind of a simple carb which can elevate blood sugar levels. They do, however, also have a lot of potassium which is needed to be able to store that sugar as glycogen rather than fat - each glycogen molecule also has a potassium. So as long as you don't eat too much, they are probably OK, as the body will convert the carbs to glycogen to be stored in the liver and muscles for later use - given some moderate daily exercise.

[RevTestament]

21 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I'm happy with my cow's milk, thanks.

Studies like the China study do make a correlation between continual consumption of cow's milk and various maladies including prostate cancer. You make want to check that out. i am not convinced cow milk is particularly healthy. I stopped drinking it when I became lactose intolerant.

21 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

So you spend several hours per day producing your own coconut milk then?

You can buy fresh coconut milk in a carton. If you do use canned coconut milk with unknown canning procedures, don't scrape the sides of the can as BPA binds to fat, and so that fat on the sides is going to act like a chemical barrier. 

[MustardSeed]

I like my hot coco mixed half and half with Pero. Love it, actually. 

Maidservant I wish I could eliminate sugar. I’ve never made it a single day. 

[Maidservant]

7 hours ago, CMZ said:

What is automatically bad about dairy?

Well, I never said automatically.  I just know I personally do better without it, especially in terms of mucus buildup in my throat, nose, and ears.  At least, those are the most noticeable effects, there may be others.  I have considered milk and products a good protein source and allowed them to myself for that reason, but, again, I just notice my body entire is not a huge fan.  I do think that when a person is involved in raising their own milk and making their own cheese, I assume that is a better deal.  For example, there are cultures that rely on camel's milk.  I would assume that is very life giving to them.  My late husband's family are Arizona ranchers, so they grew up on fresh cow's milk, and I will tell you that I personally think fresh cow's milk is nasty; I don't like looking at it, smelling it, tasting it.  I like my 2 percent.  So already I'm not really drinking real milk.  But I am losing even my taste for dairy and cheese, which I NEVER thought would happen, but I notice that when I choose, say, bits of cheese in my salad, I don't really enjoy it as much as when I just leave it out.  And I *am* one of those people who do think its weird that we drink other animal's milk but not human milk and that milk is not really for the adult body.

7 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

In the case of salad, I've never really got the point of bottled dressing either. I just add salt, cracked pepper, garlic, balsamic vinegar and olive oil. Done.

This is a personal downfall of mine and I'm not sure how I'm going to change it.  While mentally I can say that olive oil, vinegar, and lemon (and perhaps herbs) are a highly nutritious part of the salad, I simply hate the taste.  I can't eat a salad without a bunch of ranch dressing.  I hope that will change sometime in the future, or maybe I can learn to make ranch dressing from coconut milk, but for now I just can't stand eating a salad with that stuff (oil vinegar lemon) poured over it.

30 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Maidservant I wish I could eliminate sugar. I’ve never made it a single day. 

This is my third run, and I am only about two months in.  There are certain things you have to do to prepare and also while you are doing it.  For example, you must never go hungry (from other foods) and you must eat high protein.  I don't think most sugar addicted people can just stop willy nilly.  Although once one is prepared, cold turkey is best, because any opportunity to have a bit is going to be an opportunity to have a lot (as with any drug).  One thing that is helping me this round is that my body now knows what is going on since we have done this before; and my body is becoming more of my ally rather than a combatant.  My body now knows how I feel with sugar than without and definitely prefers the latter; although certainly I still get what I call "cookie twinges" which are mostly at night when I'm relaxing.  So I go for popcorn then.  My trouble right now is that sugar instantly disables me.  I go into a "carb coma"--I actually fall asleep within five or ten minutes of taking in a sugar load.  My joints hurt so that it is an exercise in pain to get out of bed in the morning.  And my brain is in a fog and I can't move normally through the day.  So there's really no choice for me.  I can eat sugar and be dead soon, or stop and stay alive.

[Storm Rider]

9 hours ago, Maidservant said:

Something living has to die and be eaten in order for something else living to stay living.  On that basis, I don't have a problem eating meat.

However, I do think that a person eating meat ought to kill it themselves--hunting or raising it.  That I will never do, unless starving in the extreme.  Having said that, I still buy my hamburger at the grocery store, but I don't think I'm right in doing so.

BBQ Pork.  Nuf said.

The older I get, .....

I am not sure the logic that meat eaters must eat their own kill without also having plant eaters not be required to grow all that they choose to eat. Do you think you need to grow everything you eat? If not, the logic does not seem to work and I don't understand this thought process. I am not sure we really disagree much on your intent; but the process does not seem whole or balanced in the way you are expressing it. 

I think everyone would be better off if they worked on farms that had to work for everything they eat. One of the great losses in our age is the loss of connection to the land. People don't know how to grow plants that are harvested for food; they don't know how to raise animals that they will slaughter to eat. Too much concrete in the world and not enough green things.  

As I have aged, what I have noticed most is my lack of appetite for everything. When I do eat meat, an 8 oz steak for example, I hardly eat anything the next day - I am just not hungry. 

[The Nehor]

Meat is our friend: