The Ongoing Restoration

[The Nehor]

14 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

So what is the structure of the restoration supposed to look like? If we are just finishing the foundations that means we’ve just started

Yep, cool huh?

Elias lays the foundation, Elijah builds the temple, and then Messiah comes to it. We are metaphorically entering stage 2.

You know all those neat hints at stuff Joseph Smith was hinting at and playing with. I am hopeful for more of that.

Light and knowledge are the best:

Quote

God shall give unto you knowledge by his Holy Spirit, yea, by the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost, that has not been revealed since the world was until now;

Which our forefathers have awaited with anxious expectation to be revealed in the last times, which their minds were pointed to by the angels, as held in reserve for the fulness of their glory;

A time to come in the which nothing shall be withheld, whether there be one God or many gods, they shall be manifest.

All thrones and dominions, principalities and powers, shall be revealed and set forth upon all who have endured valiantly for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And also, if there be bounds set to the heavens or to the seas, or to the dry land, or to the sun, moon, or stars--

All the times of their revolutions, all the appointed days, months, and years, and all the days of their days, months, and years, and all their glories, laws, and set times, shall be revealed in the days of the dispensation of the fulness of times--

According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest.

How long can rolling waters remain impure? What power shall stay the heavens? As well might man stretch forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri river in its decreed course, or to turn it up stream, as to hinder the Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints.

Edited November 1, 2018 by The Nehor

[hope_for_things]

On 10/31/2018 at 8:12 AM, halconero said:

 

 

Sid“We're witnesses to a process of restoration,” said the prophet. “If you think the Church has been fully restored, you're just seeing the beginning. There is much more to come…Wait till next year. And then the next year. Eat your vitamin pills. Get your rest. It's going to be exciting.”

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/latter-day-saint-prophet-wife-apostle-share-insights-global-ministry

I don’t think I’ve seen a prophet in my lifetime who is a) so open about how they receive revelation and b) so open about an ongoing restoration.

That is not a criticism or indictment of former prophets. I fully believe they were called of God to guide His Church. I also believe President Nelson has been raised up at a very special time to usher in a new period of the Church. I’m fascinated and excited to see what comes next.

Side note: “eat your vitamin pills. Get your rest” has to the cutest way of saying “buckle up.”

I like the idea that the restoration is ongoing, that squares well with the AoF and its helpful to view things as an ever changing progression with some fits and starts along the way.  This is what a careful review of history shows and we need to pay attention to the trends of history.  

But I don't like the whole buckle up and get ready mentality, or hastening the work, or we're in the eleventh hour, so now is the time.  This kind of language is too much like sales tactics for my comfort.  Buy today, this is a limited offer and if you don't act now you'll forfeit your opportunity.  Or a death bed repentance kind of theology.  

If we as Mormons believe that God is fair and consistent, then we should apply this idea to everything we teach.  God isn't in a rush, God wants us to do things orderly and not take short cuts.  God wants us to make substantive and deliberate decisions, not hasty and rash ones.  This life is a marathon, not a sprint.  Lets use our best judgment here, instead of trying to work people up into a revival like frenzy.  

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, hope_for_things said:

I like the idea that the restoration is ongoing, that squares well with the AoF and its helpful to view things as an ever changing progression with some fits and starts along the way.  This is what a careful review of history shows and we need to pay attention to the trends of history.  

But I don't like the whole buckle up and get ready mentality, or hastening the work, or we're in the eleventh hour, so now is the time.  This kind of language is too much like sales tactics for my comfort.  Buy today, this is a limited offer and if you don't act now you'll forfeit your opportunity.  Or a death bed repentance kind of theology.  

If we as Mormons believe that God is fair and consistent, then we should apply this idea to everything we teach.  God isn't in a rush, God wants us to do things orderly and not take short cuts.  God wants us to make substantive and deliberate decisions, not hasty and rash ones.  This life is a marathon, not a sprint.  Lets use our best judgment here, instead of trying to work people up into a revival like frenzy.  

The imagery they are using does not strike me as a sale tactic. More like riding an amusement park ride. Brace yourself. This is going to be a wild and fun ride.

To be fair though the gospel is a limited time offer and the early sign up bonuses are fantastic. The pay can sometimes seem substandard but the retirement plan is out of this world.

[Avatar4321]

3 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

I like the idea that the restoration is ongoing, that squares well with the AoF and its helpful to view things as an ever changing progression with some fits and starts along the way.  This is what a careful review of history shows and we need to pay attention to the trends of history.  

But I don't like the whole buckle up and get ready mentality, or hastening the work, or we're in the eleventh hour, so now is the time.  This kind of language is too much like sales tactics for my comfort.  Buy today, this is a limited offer and if you don't act now you'll forfeit your opportunity.  Or a death bed repentance kind of theology.  

If we as Mormons believe that God is fair and consistent, then we should apply this idea to everything we teach.  God isn't in a rush, God wants us to do things orderly and not take short cuts.  God wants us to make substantive and deliberate decisions, not hasty and rash ones.  This life is a marathon, not a sprint.  Lets use our best judgment here, instead of trying to work people up into a revival like frenzy.  

The Lord has said in the scriptures that he will hasten the work. This isn’t  something the saints have made up.

and we as “Mormons” should not do anything.

as saints of the Lord, we should follow His direction 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Avatar4321

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

The imagery they are using does not strike me as a sale tactic. More like riding an amusement park ride. Brace yourself. This is going to be a wild and fun ride.

To be fair though the gospel is a limited time offer and the early sign up bonuses are fantastic. The pay can sometimes seem substandard but the retirement plan is out of this world.

I see the gospel as all about eternity and about people being judged for their character and the intent of their heart, not whether or not someone agrees to a signing bonus for a one time job offer.  We have very different perspectives on what the core of the gospel is about.  

Your version sounds more to me like the evangelicals that want you to say a prayer to be saved to me.  

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said:

The Lord has said in the scriptures that he will hasten the work. This isn’t  something the saints of made up.

and we as “Mormons” should not do anything.

as saints of the Lord, we should follow His direction 

Whoever said every word in the scriptures was inspired, that sounds like a biblical literalist argument to me.  I thought Mormonism proclaimed precisely the opposite, that the scriptures are flawed and that we need to use discernment to determine what is inspired.  I don't think those messages are inspired.  

[The Nehor]

12 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I see the gospel as all about eternity and about people being judged for their character and the intent of their heart, not whether or not someone agrees to a signing bonus for a one time job offer.  We have very different perspectives on what the core of the gospel is about.  

Your version sounds more to me like the evangelicals that want you to say a prayer to be saved to me.  

Yeah, I played up the mercantile angle for laughs. I do not view it as a transaction or as a “believe and be saved” one time dedication.

[Bernard Gui]

On 10/31/2018 at 10:42 AM, MiserereNobis said:

I hope so. I'd like to see something beyond policy/logistics (18 year old missionaries, renaming home teaching, 2 hour block, no more "Mormon", etc). For a church that claims continuing revelation, you guys are long overdue for something that is different than the types of changes that go on regularly in other churches.

Changes in policy and logistics can come by revelation. For example, at the personal, ward, and stake levels, parents, bishops, and stake presidents establish policies and do things in certain ways (not conflicting with general church guidelines) that are changed all the time when they receive revelation to do so. We cannot do this for stewardships over which we do not preside. That is reserved for those in high leadership positions. Changes can come about as the result of revelation and divine instruction. It doesn't have to be Moses on the Mountain to be revelation. Not every revelation is preceded by "Noah........"

Edited November 1, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Whoever said every word in the scriptures was inspired, that sounds like a biblical literalist argument to me.

It is not equivalent.  A painting may inspire us and be completely abstract.  Inspiration is about drawing our hearts and minds to good.  This can be done in a variety of ways.

[Bernard Gui]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, I played up the mercantile angle for laughs. I do not view it as a transaction or as a “believe and be saved” one time dedication.

Nevertheless, the prophets warn not to procrastinate the day of repentance. So we could be justified in saying, "Get it before it gets too hot."

[Avatar4321]

30 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Whoever said every word in the scriptures was inspired, that sounds like a biblical literalist argument to me.  I thought Mormonism proclaimed precisely the opposite, that the scriptures are flawed and that we need to use discernment to determine what is inspired.  I don't think those messages are inspired.  

So you are arguing when the Lord himself is speaking it’s not inspired?

 

So how do we know what inspired and what’s not?

[Bernard Gui]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is not equivalent.  A painting may inspire us and be completely abstract.  Inspiration is about drawing our hearts and minds to good.  This can be done in a variety of ways.

One time when I was very depressed, I listened to Beethoven's 5th Symphony. In the transition between the third and fourth movements, I received huge and lasting inspiration and thanked God for Beethoven. It was then that I learned what Beethoven meant when he said, 

Quote

When I open my eyes, I can only sigh, for what I see is contrary to my creed: and I must despise the world for not perceiving that music is a higher revelation than any wisdom or philosophy. It is the wine that inspires new creations, and I am the Bacchus, who presses out this wine for men, and makes them spiritually drunk; when they are sober they bring to shore all kinds of things which they have caught. God is nearer to me than to others. I approach him without fear, I have always known him. Neither am I anxious about my music, which no adverse fate can overtake, and which will free him who understands it from the misery which afflicts others."

However, revelation is different from this kind of inspiration. The little revelation I have received is worlds apart from inspiration. 

[hope_for_things]

22 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is not equivalent.  A painting may inspire us and be completely abstract.  Inspiration is about drawing our hearts and minds to good.  This can be done in a variety of ways.

I agree that this can be done in a variety of ways.  The hastening rhetoric way isn't a way that resonates with me, so I was expressing my perspective as to why I don't think it is valuable.  But if it works for someone else, I can respect that, its just not a healthy approach from my perspective.  

[Bernard Gui]

11 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

So you are arguing when the Lord himself is speaking it’s not inspired?

 

So how do we know what inspired and what’s not?

In my experience, inspiration and revelation always result in my having an increase of love for others. That's how I know.

[hope_for_things]

10 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

So you are arguing when the Lord himself is speaking it’s not inspired?

 

So how do we know what inspired and what’s not?

How do you know the words written by that author of that book accurately reflect the divine will?  They are words on a page that was translated from a different language from a completely different culture, written in a specific time and place and context, and you're telling me you know exactly what God meant to say and how it applies to our conversation today?  

What is inspired varies by the tastes of each individual.  What works or art do you find inspirational?  

[hope_for_things]

2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

In my experience, inspiration and revelation always result in my having an increase of love for others. That's how I know.

Yes, I agree with this for me too.  Inspiring things often give me a sense of increased love for others, good comment.  

[RevTestament]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The imagery they are using does not strike me as a sale tactic. More like riding an amusement park ride. Brace yourself. This is going to be a wild and fun ride.

To be fair though the gospel is a limited time offer and the early sign up bonuses are fantastic. The pay can sometimes seem substandard but the retirement plan is out of this world.

Sometimes you are just too good Nehor, and belie your avatar.

[Hamba Tuhan]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Brace yourself.

As we can see from this very forum, some members are already finding the ride a bit bumpy. We've been told for years now that it's going to get bumpier. Personally, I've got both hands in the air.

Quote

... the early sign up bonuses are fantastic ...

I attended a ward when I was younger that included a man who was baptised in his 80s. He only lived about 1.5 years post baptism, but he bore his testimony every month, and in doing so, he always referenced the parable of the labourers. He used to say, I'm so grateful that the Lord has prepared a reward for those of us whose hearts were too hard for too long, but oh! the blessings I've missed out on in the meantime.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Avatar4321]

President Nelson just restated all of this about the continuing restoration on Twitter 

[Avatar4321]

2 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

How do you know the words written by that author of that book accurately reflect the divine will?  They are words on a page that was translated from a different language from a completely different culture, written in a specific time and place and context, and you're telling me you know exactly what God meant to say and how it applies to our conversation today?  

What is inspired varies by the tastes of each individual.  What works or art do you find inspirational?  

The Spirit.

I fail to see how a revelation where God is speaking can not be inspired 

[MiserereNobis]

A continuing "restoration" would mean getting closer and closer to the way things were before the great apostasy, wouldn't it? Or is the word "restoration" being used in a different sense here?

Maybe you guys will get restored to the Marian dogmas and we can finally pray to Her together

 

[Jane_Doe]

3 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

A continuing "restoration" would mean getting closer and closer to the way things were before the great apostasy, wouldn't it?

Not quite.  More just continuing receiving of Truth. 

[rockpond]

52 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

President Nelson just restated all of this about the continuing restoration on Twitter 

I think that account is just someone sending out quotes from him.  The tweet from 11/1/18 at 4:01pm seems to an exact quote from his earlier message. 

[hope_for_things]

2 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

The Spirit.

I fail to see how a revelation where God is speaking can not be inspired 

Thus saith the Lord, thou art mistaken.  

Modern day revelation

[halconero]

3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

A continuing "restoration" would mean getting closer and closer to the way things were before the great apostasy, wouldn't it? Or is the word "restoration" being used in a different sense here?

A bit of A, a but of B.

Some of it means restoring that which was held during the Primitive Church. Some of it means restoring that which was known, but has since been hidden, since the foundations of the world.

3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Maybe you guys will get restored to the Marian dogmas and we can finally pray to Her together

 

I’ll let you do my Marian prayers for me vicariously.