Women's Session

[Rain]

40 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

What I am rejecting is the perspective that I will only evaluate a speaker based on their gender. I don't care if the prophet of God is a spotted green toad - I want to hear the toad speak. When we listen to the prophet we are not listening to a man - we are listening to the prophet. 

If someone's criticism is that not enough women spoke and the only individual that spoke happen to be the prophet and apostles - please tell me what is the problem with identifying the big elephant in the room. The prophet is reduced to his gender only and his role as God's messenger is ignored. That is not putting words in anyone's mouth. 

I don't have a dog in this race. I don't care if the prophet and apostles ever spoke to the women. Conversely, I don't care if they were the only ones that spoke. I would like women to just be happy - full stop. If they don't want any men to speak - great. Just announce that no men will ever speak again unless specifically invited by whoever is in charge of all the women. I don't care what needs to be done - I just want women to never feel the need to complain about it. 

If the first presidency and the Proclamation emphasize that the gender of men and women is different then it stands to reason that we should care about the genders of those who speak.  As far as I am aware, Christ is the only male who suffered what women suffer. Since, none of our prophets or apostles have that ability I think it is ok to desire to hear more from the women who understand what it is like to be a woman in this church.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Rain

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, Rain said:

I wonder if some of it is also where we are in life right now. You still have young children. I'm soon to be an empty nester. 

 

That could be.

Also, I’ve always really loved the idea of Eve being called a mother before she had any children, and I loved how it was brought up in conference that a woman didn’t need to have children to be a mother (that really resonated with me), so my concept/understanding/feelings about motherhood might be different than yours, which could cause differing perspectives too.

[Duncan]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Do the men struggle with the priesthood session like this?  Sincere question, I’m not trying to be judgmental or sarcastic. 

I think, in my experience, it's mostly boredom at priesthood session. I can't really recall any talks shared there that have stood out to me and I have collected them all😶

[Rain]

12 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

The highest role is that if father and motherhood.  We refer to Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother by those roles.  Our heavenly parents may have other roles but nothing stand ahead of that role which is why we use those titles to refer to them.  Whether a woman has children or not, at Pres Nelson said all women are called mothers as that is their eternal destiny if faithful.

Sincere questions. Have you heard anything like this said to men - especially whether the man has children or not they are called fathers? If so, where did you see it? I would like to read it. If so, why do you think, it is only said to women?

[Rain]

4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

That could be.

Also, I’ve always really loved the idea of Eve being called a mother before she had any children, and I loved how it was brought up in conference that a woman didn’t need to have children to be a mother (that really resonated with me), so my concept/understanding/feelings about motherhood might be different than yours, which could cause differing perspectives too.

Funny, how things hit us all differently. I didn't like being called mother before I was able to have children. It felt like one of those nice things people say to make you feel better, but didn't really understand the depth of feelings of not having a child.

 

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I'm a man, so take this is as you will. I'd find it odd if there were a Catholic meeting for women during which the Pope spoke and then Catholic women complained about it because he was a man and it was a women's meeting. He is, after all, the Pope, and I'd assume that Catholic women would want to hear from him.

Am I missing something here on the LDS side of things?

It's just some dissident females hereabouts. Sampling error. I know no sisters who think that way, frankly

 

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

.................................................

I enjoyed viewing the women’s session. I think my favorite talk was by Sister Franco, who told the story of the teacher who sacrificed her bus fare so she could make a special treat for her class. 

I  loved Sister Franco's accent.

[Garden Girl]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

That could be.

Also, I’ve always really loved the idea of Eve being called a mother before she had any children, and I loved how it was brought up in conference that a woman didn’t need to have children to be a mother (that really resonated with me), so my concept/understanding/feelings about motherhood might be different than yours, which could cause differing perspectives too.

Once in a while this view will be expressed, but take it from me, a childless woman attending church for the past 23 years, I've sat through meetings and conferences listening to women, and men, gushing about motherhood that I know exactly how it was and is meant... and it doesn't include me... Elder Oak's expression is by far the exception...

GG

[bluebell]

8 hours ago, Rain said:

Funny, how things hit us all differently. I didn't like being called mother before I was able to have children. It felt like one of those nice things people say to make you feel better, but didn't really understand the depth of feelings of not having a child.

 

I remember this talk that Sheri Dew gave before I had any kids. It was likely one that shaped my beliefs about this topic a lot.

But this article by Sis  Eubanks (I didn’t know she’d never had any children) is probably my favorite on her view of what it actually means to be a mother in Zion.  It came out a few months ago and really impacted me.

 

 

 

[bluebell]

9 hours ago, Rain said:

Sincere questions. Have you heard anything like this said to men - especially whether the man has children or not they are called fathers? If so, where did you see it? I would like to read it. If so, why do you think, it is only said to women?

One thing that I’ve really noticed is how different men and women react to mother’s day verses Father’s Day. Motherhood, for whatever reason, seems to bring up very different emotions, thoughts, feelings, inadequacies, and anxieties for women than fatherhood does for men.  Speaking in general terms of course.

If men and women view and react to and struggle with parenthood so differently it makes sense that Heavenly Father would not have the same things to say or teach men about fatherhood that He has to say and teach women women about motherhood.

Each gender seems to have really different needs when it comes to that subject.

 

[Rain]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

One thing that I’ve really noticed is how different men and women react to mother’s day verses Father’s Day. Motherhood, for whatever reason, seems to bring up very different emotions, thoughts, feelings, inadequacies, and anxieties for women than fatherhood does for men.  Speaking in general terms of course.

If men and women view and react to and struggle with parenthood so differently it makes sense that Heavenly Father would not have the same things to say or teach men about fatherhood that He has to say and teach women women about motherhood.

Each gender seems to have really different needs when it comes to that subject.

 

But do we react this way because we view it differently or because it is talked about and treated differently?  I don't think it would be near as big of a deal if we only talked about motherhood in general as often as we talked about fatherhood in general. I think at this point it would be pretty hard to figure out which way it is.  The only way I can really see if there is a difference is to talk with new members who didn't come from a church or culture where motherhood is so revered and talked about. 

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, Rain said:

But do we react this way because we view it differently or because it is talked about and treated differently?  I don't think it would be near as big of a deal if we only talked about motherhood in general as often as we talked about fatherhood in general. I think at this point it would be pretty hard to figure out which way it is.  The only way I can really see if there is a difference is to talk with new members who didn't come from a church or culture where motherhood is so revered and talked about. 

From my experience with nonmembers, they seem to struggle the same way with motherhood/fatherhood that members do, but I agree that they don’t have the same triggers.   The nonmember women I know who aren’t mother’s but wanted to be are not expected to attend a meeting celebrating motherhood on that day, for example, but they still hate the day.

That’s not true for any of the nonmember men I know who aren’t fathers but always assumed they would be.

(but my sample size is small of course)

 

 

[juliann]

9 hours ago, Rain said:

Funny, how things hit us all differently. I didn't like being called mother before I was able to have children. It felt like one of those nice things people say to make you feel better, but didn't really understand the depth of feelings of not having a child.

 

I find it strange. Mother does have a meaning which they can't avoid when they use the BTW, for those of you who aren't the real thing, we will say you are anyway approach. With the huge chunk of single women in the church now, it would be reassuring if leaders talked to them as individuals who can have lives full of accomplishment and worth even if childless or unmarried. 

I agree that the problem only exists when so many women are essentially excluded from counsel. But we have another full day with a lot more counsel coming up.

[bluebell]

23 minutes ago, Rain said:

But do we react this way because we view it differently or because it is talked about and treated differently?  I don't think it would be near as big of a deal if we only talked about motherhood in general as often as we talked about fatherhood in general. I think at this point it would be pretty hard to figure out which way it is.  The only way I can really see if there is a difference is to talk with new members who didn't come from a church or culture where motherhood is so revered and talked about. 

I'm still pondering this and am thinking out loud a bit here....

You said earlier "If the first presidency and the Proclamation emphasize that the gender of men and women is different then it stands to reason that we should care about the genders of those who speak."  I agree with that (and thought it was a wise point).  I think though that it's applicable to this topic as well.  If men and women are different, then it stands to reason that men and women will innately view and react to parenthood differently.  Otherwise mothers and fathers would be interchangeable, and I don't believe that they are.

[juliann]

10 hours ago, Rain said:

If the first presidency and the Proclamation emphasize that the gender of men and women is different then it stands to reason that we should care about the genders of those who speak.  As far as I am aware, Christ is the only male who suffered what women suffer. Since, none of our prophets or apostles have that ability I think it is ok to desire to hear more from the women who understand what it is like to be a woman in this church.

And there is always the conundrum of saying how much women need to be heard and then not set the standard at the most important meeting of the year. 

[YJacket]

13 hours ago, bsjkki said:

You had to point that out. 

Equality.  You reap what you sow.  How many women complained that because the Women's Session the weekend before wasn't "officially" a part of GC that it made it seem "less than" the "regular" GC sessions.  When they first announced this change, this was my comment.  Sure it makes things more "equal", but everyone gets less.

Socialism . . .thank you feminists inside the Church for making it so women AND men both get less . . .but hey at least we are now "equal" . . .yeeeeaaaaaah!!

[Garden Girl]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I remember this talk that Sheri Dew gave before I had any kids. It was likely one that shaped my beliefs about this topic a lot.

But this article by Sis  Eubanks (I didn’t know she’d never had any children) is probably my favorite on her view of what it actually means to be a mother in Zion.  It came out a few months ago and really impacted me.

 

bluebell...  Thank you so much for these articles... I read them and they eased my heart greatly.  I know what they say is right and true.  It's just sometimes it is difficult. (I don't attend Church on Mother's Day).

GG

[The Nehor]

13 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Where is all this "complaining loudly." I don't see anything but this forum. I don't think having mixed feelings about things is "complaining loudly."

The complaining is not here. It is on the rest of our wonderful internet. I have seen quite a bit of it.

[bluebell]

57 minutes ago, Garden Girl said:

bluebell...  Thank you so much for these articles... I read them and they eased my heart greatly.  I know what they say is right and true.  It's just sometimes it is difficult. (I don't attend Church on Mother's Day).

GG

I’m so glad they brought some comfort. 💕

[juliann]

1 hour ago, YJacket said:

Equality.  You reap what you sow.  How many women complained that because the Women's Session the weekend before wasn't "officially" a part of GC that it made it seem "less than" the "regular" GC sessions.  When they first announced this change, this was my comment.  Sure it makes things more "equal", but everyone gets less.

Socialism . . .thank you feminists inside the Church for making it so women AND men both get less . . .but hey at least we are now "equal" . . .yeeeeaaaaaah!!

No discussion would be complete without the now familiar life is a pizza pie philosophy. If those who have less than I do get another slice of life, then I lose the extra slice I deserve more. 

Troll on. 

[Kate]

I find this whole conversation interesting. Maybe I’m just weird but I listen to each talk for the words and messages the Lord wants me to hear. So whether those words are coming from male or female makes no difference to me. I hang on every word of the Prophet hoping not to miss anything. All of the others too have been called and set apart to relay messages from Him as well. I feel 100% that the messages about motherhood were meant to emphasize the elevated role we play in mortality, just as we were reminded of and should see Eve’s role in the garden as elevated. Sisters, we were reminded of our abilities and spiritual power we have and have been told to ask Heavenly Father to show us our spiritual gifts. To me that was a clear message. 

[Avatar4321]

14 hours ago, bluebell said:

Do the men struggle with the priesthood session like this?  Sincere question, I’m not trying to be judgmental or sarcastic. 

 

14 hours ago, bluebell said:

Do the men struggle with the priesthood session like this?  Sincere question, I’m not trying to be judgmental or sarcastic

I never have.

[Abulafia]

My fb feed is full of women saying they are coming off fb for 10 days because President Nelson asked them to.

1. Why women and not men also?

2. Just why?

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, Abulafia said:

My fb feed is full of women saying they are coming off fb for 10 days because President Nelson asked them to.

1. Why women and not men also?

2. Just why?

I don’t know. Earlier in the year he asked the youth to do a 7 day social media fast. Maybe next GC during the men’s session he’ll ask them to do the same. 

Or maybe this is something that us women specifically are struggling with. 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, YJacket said:

Equality.  You reap what you sow.  How many women complained that because the Women's Session the weekend before wasn't "officially" a part of GC that it made it seem "less than" the "regular" GC sessions.  When they first announced this change, this was my comment.  Sure it makes things more "equal", but everyone gets less.

Socialism . . .thank you feminists inside the Church for making it so women AND men both get less . . .but hey at least we are now "equal" . . .yeeeeaaaaaah!!