Mormon Women for Ethical Government

[bluebell]

40 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

But in some very last-minute, anteroom horse trading, Jeff Flake, Republican from Arizona and one of the Latter-day Saints on the committee, agreed with some Democrats that he would support the motion only with the stipulation that when the approval of Kavanaugh goes before the full Senate, his vote will be contingent on there being a one-week (maximum) FBI investigation into the allegations against Kavanaugh. 

The agreement is not binding on the full Senate, but if the Republicans want Flake’s vote, they might have to honor his pledge. 

Kudos to him!

[smac97]

On 9/26/2018 at 3:46 PM, Nofear said:

The group was mentioned in a Kavanaugh  thread, but I thought not to derail that thread, but some details on the group are appropriate.

It was indeed formed after the recent political election but it is not a politically partisan group.

It seems to have been formed as a reaction to the election of Pres. Trump.

Quote

The group is all and only women. The organization, despite being fairly young, has membership in the several thousands. It has a broad spectrum of very conservative to quite liberal members.

And I'd like to find that they are united in their desire for ethics and civility in government, rather than united in a dislike of Donald Trump.

Quote

Their purpose is not partisan politics but is more along the lines of not letting politics divide but being about a good work upon which they can all (mostly) agree.

Being male, I am not privy to its internal discussions or non-public data. I have, however, personally met the president and have other avenues to gain insight. They have "call to action" items where they encourage their membership to engage politically. Recent ones include immigration and Kavanaugh.

Both of which are signature - and controversial - political topics being addressed by Donald Trump.

Quote

Much like the Church, they often don't always advise how to vote or what opinion to take but to encourage the members to let their voice be heard nonetheless. Though an outsider, I see the group channeling much of the spirit and vim of the early Relief Society.

That would be nice.

Quote

The group has a webpage: http://www.mormonwomenforethicalgovernment.org/
It has a facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/mormonweg/ (it used to do most of its business through facebook but the size of the group made that mechanism unwieldy)
The have a book of essays: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CTFXVGF/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Here are their public statements to date:

• February 15, 2018 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard Continuing Negotiations on Protections for DREAMers

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• February 8, 2018 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to the Silencing, Denigration, and Abuse of Women

This one is interesting.  "We stand with all women and hold in the highest regard those who seek help or counsel when they are being harmed in any way. These women must be heard and they must be believed."

Oi.  They had me until that bolded part.  Women "must be believed?"  Must?  Because they are women?  And they must be believed uncritically and unconditionally and absolutely?

Sorry, not going to go along with that.

• February 6, 2018 —  Announcing the 2018 Spring Conference for Mormon Women for Ethical Government
• January 22, 2018 — Fifteen Declarations on Ethical Immigration Policy

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• January 12, 2018 —  Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to President Trump’s Crass and Racist Comments

Direct criticism of Pres. Trump.  "{W}e impatiently await the time when honorable members of Congress from both sides of the aisle will put aside politics, recognize what is at stake, and take decisive action to protect this country from a President who is so clearly unfit for office."

So . . . yeah.  They are "bipartisan," but united in disliking Donald Trump.

• January 5, 2018 — Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to the Passing of President Thomas S. Monson
• January 2, 2018 — Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to Utah Senator Orrin Hatch’s Announcement of Retirement

This note includes requests that Sen. Hatch "take across the finish line several critical legislative solutions... [including] CHIP and protection for DREAMers."

So ... immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• December 12, 2017 — Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to the Alabama Senate Election Results

Expressing disappointment in the election of . . . a Republican.

• December 2, 2017 — An Open Letter to President Trump from Mormon Women for Ethical Government 

An overtly anti-Trump letter.

• November 29, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government in Response to Bigotry

Criticism of "the White House" about immigration.  

So ... immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• November 10, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to Sexual Violence
• November 7, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to Gun Violence

Wow.  They really jump the shark here.  "How many of our children must be sacrificed on the altar of individual liberties before we are shaken to action?"

This is "non-partisan," eh?  

Hardly.

• October 30, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to the Mueller Investigation

They are calling for "protection" of Mueller as he investigates Pres. Trumpt.

So . . . anti-Trump.  That's what this statement is about.

• September 9, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government in Response to Bannon Interview

Criticism of a (former) Trump operative.

Partisan.

• September 5, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government (MWEG) with Regard to Announcement About DACA

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• August 12, 2017 — Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government in Response to White Supremacist Rally and Ensuing Violence in Charlottesville, Virginia
• June 29, 2017 — Mormon Women for Ethical Government Call for Decency in Political Discourse
• May 2, 2017 — Mormon Women for Ethical Government Gather to Protest Unethical Detention of a Young Mother

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• April 6, 2017 — Mormon Women for Ethical Government and Others Gather in Prayer to Protest Feds’ “Changed Priorities” for Deportation

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

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v

So to date, this group has not published a single "official statement" criticizing a Democrat.  Just criticisms of Republicans and Republican-leaning issues (stricter immigration, regulation of guns, etc.).

Res ipsa loquitur, I think.  These folks are an anti-Trump group.  I think the declarations about being "non-partisan" seem questionable given that they are only criticizing Republicans (with a primary and principal focus of criticizing Donald Trump).

So when can we expect these folks to issue an "official statement" about sexual assault allegations directed against a Democrat?  Keith Ellison?  Cory Booker?

Or are ethics only a concern when a Republican is in the crosshairs?

🤨

-Smac

Edit: I'll note here that I have plenty of objections to Donald Trump's past personal behavior.  I don't like him as a person.  But I also have some heartburn about the slanted and one-sided criticisms directed against Republicans only.  Democrats shouldn't get a free pass.  But this so-called "nonpartisan" group seems to be giving them one.

Edited September 28, 2018 by smac97

[bluebell]

I just read this about Flake's involvement with the vote:

"The intervention of Flake, a moderate, put Senate confirmation of Kavanaugh, a conservative federal appeals court judge nominated for a lifetime job on the top U.S. court, in further doubt. It means a final Senate vote on the nomination could be delayed for up to a week so a possible FBI investigation can be completed, if Republican Senate leaders agree to Flake's demand.

Democrats, who have opposed Kavanaugh's nomination from the outset, had called for an FBI probe, but Republicans and Trump had opposed the move. 

Flake's action came a day after the Judiciary Committee's jarring and emotional hearing into the allegations against Kavanaugh that gripped the country, with a university professor named Christine Blasey Ford accusing him of sexually assaulting her in 1982 when both were high schools students in Maryland. Kavanaugh denied the accusation.

"This country's being ripped apart here," Flake, with a pained look on his face, told his fellow senators. "... I think we can have a short pause," Flake added.

"We ought to do what we can to make sure that we do all due diligence with a nomination this important," said Flake, who earlier in the day announced he would vote for Kavanaugh in the committee.

Senator Lisa Murkowski, a moderate Republican who has not said how she will vote on Kavanaugh, quickly endorsed Flake's request."

 

 

[bsjkki]

8 minutes ago, smac97 said:

It seems to have been formed as a reaction to the election of Pres. Trump.

And I'd like to find that they are united in their desire for ethics and civility in government, rather than united in a dislike of Donald Trump.

Both of which are signature - and controversial - political topics being addressed by Donald Trump.

That would be nice.

Here are their public statements to date:

• February 15, 2018 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard Continuing Negotiations on Protections for DREAMers

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• February 8, 2018 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to the Silencing, Denigration, and Abuse of Women

This one is interesting.  "We stand with all women and hold in the highest regard those who seek help or counsel when they are being harmed in any way. These women must be heard and they must be believed."

Oi.  They had me until that bolded part.  Women "must be believed?"  Must?  Because they are women?  And they must be believed uncritically and unconditionally and absolutely?

Sorry, not going to go along with that.

• February 6, 2018 —  Announcing the 2018 Spring Conference for Mormon Women for Ethical Government
• January 22, 2018 — Fifteen Declarations on Ethical Immigration Policy

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• January 12, 2018 —  Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to President Trump’s Crass and Racist Comments

Direct criticism of Pres. Trump.  "{W}e impatiently await the time when honorable members of Congress from both sides of the aisle will put aside politics, recognize what is at stake, and take decisive action to protect this country from a President who is so clearly unfit for office."

So . . . yeah.  They are "bipartisan," but united in disliking Donald Trump.

• January 5, 2018 — Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to the Passing of President Thomas S. Monson
• January 2, 2018 — Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to Utah Senator Orrin Hatch’s Announcement of Retirement

This note includes requests that Sen. Hatch "take across the finish line several critical legislative solutions... [including] CHIP and protection for DREAMers."

So ... immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• December 12, 2017 — Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to the Alabama Senate Election Results

Expressing disappointment in the election of . . . a Republican.

• December 2, 2017 — An Open Letter to President Trump from Mormon Women for Ethical Government 

An overtly anti-Trump letter.

• November 29, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government in Response to Bigotry

Criticism of "the White House" about immigration.  

So ... immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• November 10, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to Sexual Violence
• November 7, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to Gun Violence

Wow.  They really jump the shark here.  "How many of our children must be sacrificed on the altar of individual liberties before we are shaken to action?"

This is "non-partisan," eh?  

Hardly.

• October 30, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to the Mueller Investigation

They are calling for "protection" of Mueller as he investigates Pres. Trumpt.

So . . . anti-Trump.  That's what this statement is about.

• September 9, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government in Response to Bannon Interview

Criticism of a (former) Trump operative.

Partisan.

• September 5, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government (MWEG) with Regard to Announcement About DACA

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• August 12, 2017 — Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government in Response to White Supremacist Rally and Ensuing Violence in Charlottesville, Virginia
• June 29, 2017 — Mormon Women for Ethical Government Call for Decency in Political Discourse
• May 2, 2017 — Mormon Women for Ethical Government Gather to Protest Unethical Detention of a Young Mother

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• April 6, 2017 — Mormon Women for Ethical Government and Others Gather in Prayer to Protest Feds’ “Changed Priorities” for Deportation

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

Nary a single "official statement" criticizing a Democrat.

Res ipsa loquitur, I think.  These folks are an anti-Trump group.  I think the declarations about being "non-partisan" seem questionable given that they are only criticizing Republicans (with a primary and principal focus of criticizing Donald Trump).

So when can we expect these folks to issue an "official statement" about sexual assault allegations directed against a Democrat?  Keith Ellison?  Cory Booker?

Or are ethics only a concern when a Republican is in the crosshairs?

🤨

-Smac

Edit: I'll note here that I have plenty of objections to Donald Trump's past personal behavior.  I don't like him as a person.  But I also have some heartburn about the slanted and one-sided criticisms directed against Republicans only.  Democrats shouldn't get a free pass.  But this so-called "nonpartisan" group seems to be giving them one.

Thank you for the analysis! Spot on!

[Storm Rider]

I certainly detest the act of telling me you are non-partisan, but then act only in a partisan manner.  However, it is very easy to understand that Trump gets up in the morning and paints a big target on himself by both his words and actions.  

It would be so easy to actually be non-partisan and actually stand for an ethical form of government. It is not like it is difficult to find fault with both sides of government. They are fumbling a great opportunity for Mormons to be perceived as a force for good rather than just another partisan hack job. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Storm Rider

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

It seems to have been formed as a reaction to the election of Pres. Trump.

And I'd like to find that they are united in their desire for ethics and civility in government, rather than united in a dislike of Donald Trump.

Both of which are signature - and controversial - political topics being addressed by Donald Trump.

That would be nice.

Here are their public statements to date:

• February 15, 2018 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard Continuing Negotiations on Protections for DREAMers

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• February 8, 2018 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to the Silencing, Denigration, and Abuse of Women

This one is interesting.  "We stand with all women and hold in the highest regard those who seek help or counsel when they are being harmed in any way. These women must be heard and they must be believed."

Oi.  They had me until that bolded part.  Women "must be believed?"  Must?  Because they are women?  And they must be believed uncritically and unconditionally and absolutely?

Sorry, not going to go along with that.

• February 6, 2018 —  Announcing the 2018 Spring Conference for Mormon Women for Ethical Government
• January 22, 2018 — Fifteen Declarations on Ethical Immigration Policy

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• January 12, 2018 —  Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to President Trump’s Crass and Racist Comments

Direct criticism of Pres. Trump.  "{W}e impatiently await the time when honorable members of Congress from both sides of the aisle will put aside politics, recognize what is at stake, and take decisive action to protect this country from a President who is so clearly unfit for office."

So . . . yeah.  They are "bipartisan," but united in disliking Donald Trump.

• January 5, 2018 — Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to the Passing of President Thomas S. Monson
• January 2, 2018 — Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to Utah Senator Orrin Hatch’s Announcement of Retirement

This note includes requests that Sen. Hatch "take across the finish line several critical legislative solutions... [including] CHIP and protection for DREAMers."

So ... immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• December 12, 2017 — Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to the Alabama Senate Election Results

Expressing disappointment in the election of . . . a Republican.

• December 2, 2017 — An Open Letter to President Trump from Mormon Women for Ethical Government 

An overtly anti-Trump letter.

• November 29, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government in Response to Bigotry

Criticism of "the White House" about immigration.  

So ... immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• November 10, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to Sexual Violence
• November 7, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to Gun Violence

Wow.  They really jump the shark here.  "How many of our children must be sacrificed on the altar of individual liberties before we are shaken to action?"

This is "non-partisan," eh?  

Hardly.

• October 30, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to the Mueller Investigation

They are calling for "protection" of Mueller as he investigates Pres. Trumpt.

So . . . anti-Trump.  That's what this statement is about.

• September 9, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government in Response to Bannon Interview

Criticism of a (former) Trump operative.

Partisan.

• September 5, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government (MWEG) with Regard to Announcement About DACA

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• August 12, 2017 — Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government in Response to White Supremacist Rally and Ensuing Violence in Charlottesville, Virginia
• June 29, 2017 — Mormon Women for Ethical Government Call for Decency in Political Discourse
• May 2, 2017 — Mormon Women for Ethical Government Gather to Protest Unethical Detention of a Young Mother

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• April 6, 2017 — Mormon Women for Ethical Government and Others Gather in Prayer to Protest Feds’ “Changed Priorities” for Deportation

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

|
|
|
v

So to date, this group has not published a single "official statement" criticizing a Democrat.  Just criticisms of Republicans and Republican-leaning issues (stricter immigration, regulation of guns, etc.).

Res ipsa loquitur, I think.  These folks are an anti-Trump group.  I think the declarations about being "non-partisan" seem questionable given that they are only criticizing Republicans (with a primary and principal focus of criticizing Donald Trump).

So when can we expect these folks to issue an "official statement" about sexual assault allegations directed against a Democrat?  Keith Ellison?  Cory Booker?

Or are ethics only a concern when a Republican is in the crosshairs?

🤨

-Smac

Edit: I'll note here that I have plenty of objections to Donald Trump's past personal behavior.  I don't like him as a person.  But I also have some heartburn about the slanted and one-sided criticisms directed against Republicans only.  Democrats shouldn't get a free pass.  But this so-called "nonpartisan" group seems to be giving them one.

Wow! This group seems about as “non-partisan” as CNN. 

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I just read this about Flake's involvement with the vote:

"The intervention of Flake, a moderate, put Senate confirmation of Kavanaugh, a conservative federal appeals court judge nominated for a lifetime job on the top U.S. court, in further doubt. It means a final Senate vote on the nomination could be delayed for up to a week so a possible FBI investigation can be completed, if Republican Senate leaders agree to Flake's demand.

Democrats, who have opposed Kavanaugh's nomination from the outset, had called for an FBI probe, but Republicans and Trump had opposed the move. 

Flake's action came a day after the Judiciary Committee's jarring and emotional hearing into the allegations against Kavanaugh that gripped the country, with a university professor named Christine Blasey Ford accusing him of sexually assaulting her in 1982 when both were high schools students in Maryland. Kavanaugh denied the accusation.

"This country's being ripped apart here," Flake, with a pained look on his face, told his fellow senators. "... I think we can have a short pause," Flake added.

"We ought to do what we can to make sure that we do all due diligence with a nomination this important," said Flake, who earlier in the day announced he would vote for Kavanaugh in the committee.

Senator Lisa Murkowski, a moderate Republican who has not said how she will vote on Kavanaugh, quickly endorsed Flake's request."

 

 

Source, please. 

This account is essentially accurate (I watched the proceedings all morning) but the commentary about the nomination being “in further doubt” reflects slanting and bias. If anything, the nomination’s chances seem better today than in the last several days, as it has been voted out of committee. I agree with Lindsey Graham’s prediction that a a one-week FBI investigation (and Flake wants that to be the maximum time) is not going to change any opinions. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

I tacked this on to a prior post, but lest it has been overlooked, I’ll repost it here. 

Suppose a Latter-day Saint woman earnestly believes Judge Kavanaugh’s denials of the allegations against him. Would she be welcome in this group? Would her opinion be respected?

I’ll add only that I am uncomfortable with any group using the word “Mormon” to push such a politically partisan cause. It tends to lump the Church and its members in with the axe they are grinding. 

[bsjkki]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I tacked this on to a prior post, but lest it has been overlooked, I’ll repost it here. 

Suppose a Latter-day Saint woman earnestly believes Judge Kavanaugh’s denials of the allegations against him. Would she be welcome in this group? Would her opinion be respected?

I’ll add only that I am uncomfortable with any group using the word “Mormon” to push such a politically partisan cause. It tends to lump the Church and its members in with the axe they are grinding. 

Yes. On  the other thread I mentioned how this group does not speak for me but because of their name, they imply they represent Mormon women. 

[Walden]

43 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I’ll add only that I am uncomfortable with any group using the word “Mormon” to push such a politically partisan cause. It tends to lump the Church and its members in with the axe they are grinding. 

Agreed, it's the very reason I officially resigned from the church, I no longer wanted to be affiliated with a group that pushed their political agenda from the pulpit as the church did during the Prop 8 vote here in California

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Source, please. 

This account is essentially accurate (I watched the proceedings all morning) but the commentary about the nomination being “in further doubt” reflects slanting and bias. If anything, the nomination’s chances seem better today than in the last several days, as it has been voted out of committee. I agree with Lindsey Graham’s prediction that a a one-week FBI investigation (and Flake wants that to be the maximum time) is not going to change any opinions. 

I don't know which news outlet it was.  It was in my top five yahoo news stories  few hours ago but since then there have been hundreds of article written about it and I don't know which one I had originally read, sorry.  It might be that there were two other republican senators who had not yet said they would vote for Kavanaugh that caused the writer to say the appointment was in doubt.  If I ever find the original story I quoted from, I'll post it.

[Nofear]

The Church takes political positions too. Still, despite the vast majority of members being conservative (we do have liberal members though). Yet, I still call the Church non-partisan.

While not a transhumanist myself, I am not offended by the name Momon Transhumanist Association. It, like me, endeavors to be scientific.

[Scott Lloyd]

On 9/28/2018 at 4:41 PM, Walden said:

Agreed, it's the very reason I officially resigned from the church, I no longer wanted to be affiliated with a group that pushed their political agenda from the pulpit as the church did during the Prop 8 vote here in California

There is no functional equivalence here. On the one hand, it is a matter of the Church officially enunciating a position. On the other hand it is a matter of a political pressure group assuming for itself without authorization a name typically associated with the Church of Jesus Christ and its membership. 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

13 minutes ago, Nofear said:

The Church takes political positions too. Still, despite the vast majority of members being conservative (we do have liberal members though). Yet, I still call the Church non-partisan.

While not a transhumanist myself, I am not offended by the name Momon Transhumanist Association. It, like me, endeavors to be scientific.

I don’t approve of that either. 

[Scott Lloyd]

16 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I don't know which news outlet it was.  It was in my top five yahoo news stories  few hours ago but since then there have been hundreds of article written about it and I don't know which one I had originally read, sorry.  It might be that there were two other republican senators who had not yet said they would vote for Kavanaugh that caused the writer to say the appointment was in doubt.  If I ever find the original story I quoted from, I'll post it.

OK. Thanks. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I don’t approve of that either. 

What about the Mormon Women Stand group?

[Glenn101]

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

I just read this about Flake's involvement with the vote:

"The intervention of Flake, a moderate, put Senate confirmation of Kavanaugh, a conservative federal appeals court judge nominated for a lifetime job on the top U.S. court, in further doubt. It means a final Senate vote on the nomination could be delayed for up to a week so a possible FBI investigation can be completed, if Republican Senate leaders agree to Flake's demand.

Democrats, who have opposed Kavanaugh's nomination from the outset, had called for an FBI probe, but Republicans and Trump had opposed the move. 

Flake's action came a day after the Judiciary Committee's jarring and emotional hearing into the allegations against Kavanaugh that gripped the country, with a university professor named Christine Blasey Ford accusing him of sexually assaulting her in 1982 when both were high schools students in Maryland. Kavanaugh denied the accusation.

"This country's being ripped apart here," Flake, with a pained look on his face, told his fellow senators. "... I think we can have a short pause," Flake added.

"We ought to do what we can to make sure that we do all due diligence with a nomination this important," said Flake, who earlier in the day announced he would vote for Kavanaugh in the committee.

Senator Lisa Murkowski, a moderate Republican who has not said how she will vote on Kavanaugh, quickly endorsed Flake's request."

 

 

I think that is reasonable, i.e. a vote delay until an FBI investigation. I do not know an investigation will be able to turn up any real evidence after 36 years. There just is not going to be any type of forensic evidence to be found. But there are some things that may be able to be checked. Whether Mark Judge worked at the Potomac Safeway and when is one of them.

[MiserereNobis]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Wow! This group seems about as “non-partisan” as CNN. 

Or Fox News 😉

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

What about the Mormon Women Stand group?

I'm torn regarding that group and their use of "Mormon."

For one thing, I don't know a whole lot about them. My understanding, admittedly meager, is that they don't engage in politics so much as social issues and that they try to conform their advocacy to what would be consistent with the Church's position on such issues. If that is the case, I wouldn't have a problem, so long as they were careful to make frequent disclaimers that they are not affiliated with the Church, much as FairMormon does.

Speaking of which, FairMormon occurred to me as I was solidifying my position in my mind. Does it bother me that they include "Mormon" in their name? Well, for one thing, I didn't much like when they changed their name from FAIR to FairMormon. But my reason for not objecting to the name is that, unlike the group being discussed on this thread, FairMormon does not engage in politics.  Furthermore, they don't take positions inconsistent with those of the Church. In fact, their raison d'etre is to defend the positions taken by the Church.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Glenn101 said:

I think that is reasonable, i.e. a vote delay until an FBI investigation. I do not know an investigation will be able to turn up any real evidence after 36 years. There just is not going to be any type of forensic evidence to be found. But there are some things that may be able to be checked. Whether Mark Judge worked at the Potomac Safeway and when is one of them.

One of the senators who spoke today -- I think it was Booker, or it might have been Blumenthal -- mentioned that Judge had written in one of his books about working at the Safeway and when. I don't think there is any significant potential revelation in this.

[sunstoned]

6 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

I certainly detest the act of telling me you are non-partisan, but then act only in a partisan manner.  However, it is very easy to understand that Trump gets up in the morning and paints a big target on himself by both his words and actions.  

It would be so easy to actually be non-partisan and actually stand for an ethical form of government. It is not like it is difficult to find fault with both sides of government. They are fumbling a great opportunity for Mormons to be perceived as a force for good rather than just another partisan hack job. 

This is exactly how I feel about the four Mormon senators on the committee.  

[sunstoned]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Source, please. 

This account is essentially accurate (I watched the proceedings all morning) but the commentary about the nomination being “in further doubt” reflects slanting and bias. If anything, the nomination’s chances seem better today than in the last several days, as it has been voted out of committee. I agree with Lindsey Graham’s prediction that a a one-week FBI investigation (and Flake wants that to be the maximum time) is not going to change any opinions. 

I guess it would depend on what the FBI findings are.  

[Scott Lloyd]

On 9/28/2018 at 9:26 PM, sunstoned said:

I guess it would depend on what the FBI findings are.  

The clamor for an FBI investigation  at its heart was never anything other than a ploy to delay the process beyond the elections in hopes of electing  a Democratic majority to block Kavanaugh’s nomination. But Flake, by insisting that it be limited to a week in length, made it palatable for the Republicans to agree to it. There’s nothing new to unearth. Key witnesses have already spoken, and unlike Senate committees, the FBI cannot compel testimony. 

Furthermore, witnesses like Judge gave sworn written statements to the Senate Judiciary Committee under penalty of felony, and it would be foolish for them to change their stories now. 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Glenn101]

12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

One of the senators who spoke today -- I think it was Booker, or it might have been Blumenthal -- mentioned that Judge had written in one of his books about working at the Safeway and when. I don't think there is any significant potential revelation in this.

It was in his book, but I don't think he mentioned the name of the store. However this is something that Ford may have read.

Edited to add: I really would like to know the truth of the matter, but after 36 years I believe that is going to be next to impossible to ascertain barring some stunning new revelations in the way of actual evidence rather than jogged memories. Right now I am comfortable with my belief that Judge Kavanaugh has been truthful in his denial of the allegations against him based upon the responses by the friends who knew him the best during his high school years and the complete lack of corroboration by the people that Doctor Ford named in her accounts of the event.

I do believe that Doctor Ford is sincere and that she did suffer an attack, but based upon information available it is very possible that she was mistaken.

Glenn

Edited September 29, 2018 by Glenn101

[BlueDreams]

On 9/28/2018 at 1:34 PM, smac97 said:

It seems to have been formed as a reaction to the election of Pres. Trump.

And I'd like to find that they are united in their desire for ethics and civility in government, rather than united in a dislike of Donald Trump.

Both of which are signature - and controversial - political topics being addressed by Donald Trump.

That would be nice.

Here are their public statements to date:

• February 15, 2018 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard Continuing Negotiations on Protections for DREAMers

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• February 8, 2018 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to the Silencing, Denigration, and Abuse of Women

This one is interesting.  "We stand with all women and hold in the highest regard those who seek help or counsel when they are being harmed in any way. These women must be heard and they must be believed."

Oi.  They had me until that bolded part.  Women "must be believed?"  Must?  Because they are women?  And they must be believed uncritically and unconditionally and absolutely?

Sorry, not going to go along with that.

• February 6, 2018 —  Announcing the 2018 Spring Conference for Mormon Women for Ethical Government
• January 22, 2018 — Fifteen Declarations on Ethical Immigration Policy

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• January 12, 2018 —  Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to President Trump’s Crass and Racist Comments

Direct criticism of Pres. Trump.  "{W}e impatiently await the time when honorable members of Congress from both sides of the aisle will put aside politics, recognize what is at stake, and take decisive action to protect this country from a President who is so clearly unfit for office."

So . . . yeah.  They are "bipartisan," but united in disliking Donald Trump.

• January 5, 2018 — Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to the Passing of President Thomas S. Monson
• January 2, 2018 — Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to Utah Senator Orrin Hatch’s Announcement of Retirement

This note includes requests that Sen. Hatch "take across the finish line several critical legislative solutions... [including] CHIP and protection for DREAMers."

So ... immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• December 12, 2017 — Response from Mormon Women for Ethical Government to the Alabama Senate Election Results

Expressing disappointment in the election of . . . a Republican.

• December 2, 2017 — An Open Letter to President Trump from Mormon Women for Ethical Government 

An overtly anti-Trump letter.

• November 29, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government in Response to Bigotry

Criticism of "the White House" about immigration.  

So ... immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• November 10, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to Sexual Violence
• November 7, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to Gun Violence

Wow.  They really jump the shark here.  "How many of our children must be sacrificed on the altar of individual liberties before we are shaken to action?"

This is "non-partisan," eh?  

Hardly.

• October 30, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government with Regard to the Mueller Investigation

They are calling for "protection" of Mueller as he investigates Pres. Trumpt.

So . . . anti-Trump.  That's what this statement is about.

• September 9, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government in Response to Bannon Interview

Criticism of a (former) Trump operative.

Partisan.

• September 5, 2017 — Official Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government (MWEG) with Regard to Announcement About DACA

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• August 12, 2017 — Statement from Mormon Women for Ethical Government in Response to White Supremacist Rally and Ensuing Violence in Charlottesville, Virginia
• June 29, 2017 — Mormon Women for Ethical Government Call for Decency in Political Discourse
• May 2, 2017 — Mormon Women for Ethical Government Gather to Protest Unethical Detention of a Young Mother

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

• April 6, 2017 — Mormon Women for Ethical Government and Others Gather in Prayer to Protest Feds’ “Changed Priorities” for Deportation

Immigration.  A signature "Trump" issue.

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So to date, this group has not published a single "official statement" criticizing a Democrat.  Just criticisms of Republicans and Republican-leaning issues (stricter immigration, regulation of guns, etc.).

Res ipsa loquitur, I think.  These folks are an anti-Trump group.  I think the declarations about being "non-partisan" seem questionable given that they are only criticizing Republicans (with a primary and principal focus of criticizing Donald Trump).

So when can we expect these folks to issue an "official statement" about sexual assault allegations directed against a Democrat?  Keith Ellison?  Cory Booker?

Or are ethics only a concern when a Republican is in the crosshairs?

🤨

-Smac

Edit: I'll note here that I have plenty of objections to Donald Trump's past personal behavior.  I don't like him as a person.  But I also have some heartburn about the slanted and one-sided criticisms directed against Republicans only.  Democrats shouldn't get a free pass.  But this so-called "nonpartisan" group seems to be giving them one.

I disagree with your conclusions. The group can still be nonpartisan (they state non, not bi) while supporting concerns that they feel have an ethical or moral imperative. That they’ve picked issues that are “trump” issues shouldn’t be a surprise. Democratic agendas aren’t  generally being passed through congress and by the White House right now and so have less imminent impact. And a wide breadth of Americans are deeply concerned about him as a president. Not simply having a republican but him….who for many is an icon of lack of civility and compromised ethics. The issues that they have written are issues that a majority of the US population has issues with: Trump’s xenophobia, bigotry, sexism, racism, and uncivil/bombastic dialogue…as well as other public issues of concern. One can be of either party or neither and still want to see a moral compass that steers away from these things…and actively seeks to see that implemented in society.

I think to point out partisanship, we would need to see if a majority of the American people have concerns about these issues, knowing that for americans, 26% ID as republican and 27% as Democrat…the rest being independent or unaffiliated. If you include leaning independents, the most recent poll is 44% (R) and 47 % (D). (That number that has ranged by 8 points for republicans (38-44) and 5 for democrats (45-50). Its also well known that millennials and younger veer more left of center than previous generation…which is important, because this group was generally younger….so in that context “left-leaning” would be more expected (it’s fairly known that republicans are likely going to need a generational rebranding to be relevant in coming years). If an issue captures a solid majority of the nation, it likely means it’s fairly non-partisan…ie the idea isn’t simply about party lines. I would propose that the majority of the statements ring as such.

 

I’ve been quickly googling several of these concerns that are listed to make sure that my initial hunch was correct. But generally a large percentage of the US population would generally agree with their consensus (broadly). Especially if it’s closer to the demographics mentioned (younger and/or women). If I showed most of these views to my friends IRL, who range on political identity/beliefs - but are not really partisan – they would generally agree with that these are fairly even handed views. In short, the left lean is likely not one of partisanship but one of playing the demographics games (young women concerned about compassion and equitable government

 

On Keith Ellison…he was under investigation by Minnesota’s Democratic Party and recently asked for another separate investigation from the House Ethic Committee. What this group is asking for isn’t that Kavenaugh shouldn’t be confirmed period (that would be a partisan stance). But that he shouldn’t be confirmed without an investigation on serious allegations….which is again a majority/nonpartisan view…while still holding up what the overarching body of these women’s group believes in surrounding women and abuse. And if the investigation comes up with confirmation of Ford’s account, that there be some form of real repentance involved. Some could argue that’s the case/difference with booker. I get that you might disagree and that those who lean more strongly right may also disagree….but that doesn’t change that the majority of the nation (as well as younger Mormons) are not that stridently republican and would be fine with the gist of their points.

I lost track of all the stats I've looked at. I'll try to post the ones I was looking at to see majority views and if they fit largely partisan divide....but it's currently not letting me. 

 

With luv,

BD

Edited September 30, 2018 by BlueDreams