Speculations for General Conference

[rockpond]

21 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Transitionary period - emphasize people can go either age for a year. But year, there will be problems for a year or two. I think the drop in the number of missionaries is because lots of people just aren't ready at 18. I sure as heck wasn't. They wait, but once you've already waiting past when everyone else goes it's easy to keep delaying. Make the age 19 and I bet you get more.

I don't have strong feelings on this but I'll add an extra POV to the discussion:

When the age change came, my dad was serving as a mission president in a country where the 19-yr mission age didn't fit well with their educational system.  Prospective male missionaries were having to significantly delay educational pursuits (which, per my dad, sometimes led to dropping higher educational goals altogether) or they had to wait and go on their missions much later (potentially delaying marriage).  It was definitely a welcome change there.

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 minutes ago, rockpond said:

When the age change came, my dad was serving as a mission president in a country where the 19-yr mission age didn't fit well with their educational system.

Yep. We had an Elder serve in our ward whose home country already had a policy of allowing 18-year-olds to serve for this very reason.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yep. We had an Elder serve in our ward whose home country already had a policy of allowing 18-year-olds to serve for this very reason.

This could be useful...keep 18 year olds in countries where it works better, but emphasize waiting a year where it is more flexible.  Missionaries can apply for exceptions, but have the application require something significant (like a multipage essay on why they  should be allowed, including personal testimony...just having to make the extra effort might eliminate a lot that normally would go earlier).  They have different rules for waiting for sealings in terms of civil marriage, so why not this?

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

This could be useful...keep 18 year olds in countries where it works better, but emphasize waiting a year where it is more flexible. 

As I stated above, overwhelmingly our best missionaries over the past few years have been those who came to us at age 18 (or 19 for Sisters). I know it's somewhat fashionable on this board to engage in hand-wringing over the age change. I personally love it!

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

As I stated above, overwhelmingly our best missionaries over the past few years have been those who came to us at age 18 (or 19 for Sisters). I know it's somewhat fashionable on this board to engage in hand-wringing over the age change. I personally love it!

That is why I would suggest just adding a few more hoops to jump through in countries where it works both to wait or go early.  The mature ones would find such things relatively easy in most cases while the less mature would naturally put off applying until it was easier if the hoops were chosen well.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Calm

[changed]

On 8/29/2018 at 11:35 AM, Nofear said:

Setting aside the inappropriateness of gossipy chatter, any guesses? For my part, I'm going with China opening its borders to missionaries if anything at all.

I'm hoping the church dress code will change - no more white shirts, no more dresses - blue jeans and t-shirts for all?  At least that would get a few more people to come to church ...

[smac97]

1 hour ago, changed said:

I'm hoping the church dress code will change - no more white shirts, no more dresses - blue jeans and t-shirts for all?  At least that would get a few more people to come to church ...

I think there is some real value in "Sunday dress."

Thanks,

-Smac

[clarkgoble]

4 hours ago, changed said:

I'm hoping the church dress code will change - no more white shirts, no more dresses - blue jeans and t-shirts for all?  At least that would get a few more people to come to church ...

There's technically not a dress code and I regularly see women in pant suits with no one complaining. More of the issue is people assuming there's a dress code and sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. Also I only wear a white shirt about 50% of the time.

[ksfisher]

6 hours ago, changed said:

I'm hoping the church dress code will change - no more white shirts, no more dresses - blue jeans and t-shirts for all?  At least that would get a few more people to come to church ...

A lot of articles here on how clothing affects behavior:

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=qESZW6idFoS-jwSjorvABQ&q=does+clothing+affect+behavior&oq=does+clothing+affect+be&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0.3406.7484..9459...1.0..0.94.1698.24......0....1..gws-wiz.....6..35i39j0i131j0i131i20i264j0i20i264j0i3j0i22i30.FG2qnFg8uPE

 

[rockpond]

11 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

A lot of articles here on how clothing affects behavior:

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=qESZW6idFoS-jwSjorvABQ&q=does+clothing+affect+behavior&oq=does+clothing+affect+be&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0.3406.7484..9459...1.0..0.94.1698.24......0....1..gws-wiz.....6..35i39j0i131j0i131i20i264j0i20i264j0i3j0i22i30.FG2qnFg8uPE

 

If any on here have ever had a job where you spent significant amounts of time working from home, you might feel as I do that I tend to be more productive when I get up, shower, dress nicely, etc (as opposed to rolling out of bed and opening up the laptop).

Having seen the way many people dress to attend other churches, I tend to like our cultural dress code as Mormons.  The downside is the risk that some might not feel comfortable attending if they don't own the right attire.

I did learn recently from a temple president that temple workers are instructed to let anyone enter the temple, regardless of their dress (assuming they have a current recommend).  This makes sense to me since once inside, you are changing into temple clothing anyway.  (The question came up in conversation while I was on a short vacation and decided to do a session.  I had remembered to bring my white shirt and tie but didn't pack nice shoes... so I showed up wearing hiking boots.  Made a comment to the temple president who happened to be standing in the foyer.)

Edited September 12, 2018 by rockpond

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, rockpond said:

I did learn recently from a temple president that temple workers are instructed to let anyone enter the temple, regardless of their dress (assuming they have a current recommend).  This makes sense to me since once inside, you are changing into temple clothing anyway.  (The question came up in conversation while I was on a short vacation and decided to do a session.  I had remembered to bring my white shirt and tie but didn't pack nice shoes... so I showed up wearing hiking boots.  Made a comment to the temple president who happened to be standing in the foyer.)

My parent's temple in another state had a problem with this, where the recommend desk worker actually turned away a brother who came in jeans, even though he had a recommend.  It happened to have been that brother's first time back to the temple after decades of inactivity, and he left and never came to church again (despite the temple president, stake president, etc. visiting him personally).  

[carbon dioxide]

12 hours ago, changed said:

I'm hoping the church dress code will change - no more white shirts, no more dresses - blue jeans and t-shirts for all?  At least that would get a few more people to come to church ...

When I went to BYU, sometimes I would dress all black.  Nobody every said anything negative to me about it.

[Jeanne]

1 minute ago, carbon dioxide said:

When I went to BYU, sometimes I would dress all black.  Nobody every said anything negative to me about it.

You are related to Nehor right?☺️

[Hamba Tuhan]

I can confirm the temple policy, which has been in place for a very long time. When I was living in America, I attended a temple that was open for a half day on Mondays. I was just at the recommend desk on my way to the last session of the day when a man half-walked through the front door and asked if the temple really was open. This brother had arrived from interstate for a business meeting and had seen the cars in the temple car park. The worker said yes and invited the visitor in. He said he would run to his hotel and change first. The worker told him he didn't have time, that the last session was due to begin in 15 minutes. The poor brother -- dressed in jeans, cowboy boots, and a casual shirt -- was reluctant to do so, so the worker asked, 'What do you think matters most to the Lord today, how you're dressed or whether you're in His house?' The brother came in and did the session with me.

As far as 'dress codes' go, everyone else is right. There is real value in dressing up, but the Church certainly doesn't require specific colours or styles. In my ward, we have men wearing all colours of shirts, and a number of them wear skirts. At the same time, a number of our sisters wear nice pants, including the wife of our patriarch and our organist. One of the counsellors in our bishopric often does the all-black thing. I don't love it, but he's a cop, and it seems to suit him.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[changed]

4 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

When I went to BYU, sometimes I would dress all black.  Nobody every said anything negative to me about it.

Sam Young wore all black to his disciplinary council last Sunday.  

[changed]

11 hours ago, ksfisher said:

A lot of articles here on how clothing affects behavior:

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=qESZW6idFoS-jwSjorvABQ&q=does+clothing+affect+behavior&oq=does+clothing+affect+be&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0.3406.7484..9459...1.0..0.94.1698.24......0....1..gws-wiz.....6..35i39j0i131j0i131i20i264j0i20i264j0i3j0i22i30.FG2qnFg8uPE

 

If you are a "Looker" cloths matter... if you are a listener, or a talker - that is a different ball of wax:

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by changed

[changed]

What I am really hoping for - some new service project  - something like:

• The church will now open and operate half-way homes
• Each stake will be opening food pantries and a thrift stores to feed the homeless in their area.
• The church buildings will now be used as community centers during the week with reading and writing lessons, health and exercise classes, counseling, and daycare.

Is it wrong to spend Sundays volunteering instead of going to church?  If church was something productive - if it was helping people in tangible ways - that would get more people to come I think.

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by changed

[e-eye]

2 hours ago, changed said:

What I am really hoping for - some new service project  - something like:

• The church will now open and operate half-way homes
• Each stake will be opening food pantries and a thrift stores to feed the homeless in their area.
• The church buildings will now be used as community centers during the week with reading and writing lessons, health and exercise classes, counseling, and daycare.

Is it wrong to spend Sundays volunteering instead of going to church?  If church was something productive - if it was helping people in tangible ways - that would get more people to come I think.

 

Good, better, best. It’s good to serve on sundays but not better than renewing your covenants, learning and teaching together for a few hours. There’s a reason it’s a temple question.  Sometimes there are exceptions, but we really should be at church serving and then taking what we gain from there to all the world. 

[Rain]

10 hours ago, changed said:

What I am really hoping for - some new service project  - something like:

• The church will now open and operate half-way homes
• Each stake will be opening food pantries and a thrift stores to feed the homeless in their area.
• The church buildings will now be used as community centers during the week with reading and writing lessons, health and exercise classes, counseling, and daycare.

Is it wrong to spend Sundays volunteering instead of going to church?  If church was something productive - if it was helping people in tangible ways - that would get more people to come I think.

 

The church has looked into opening community services. What they found was that when that service was already in the community it was seen as competition and better than yours. They found it is much more effective and the best thing to support services that were already there.  

Funny thing is many people don't know or recognize the help the church is giving.  My friend went to a meeting where one charity gave recognition to 3 other charities that helped them, but didn't know that all 3 were actually our church because they came from places like the "bishop's storehouse".  

There are actually quite a few things happening in church houses.  My stake center has a group that has been doing exercise classes where all have been welcome for 30 years, though in a few different buildings. My last stake had exercise classes as well. I know of language classes and 12 step programs held in them.

While I'm good with filling them more we also have to be aware of scheduling conflicts that happen because of that. One day I went to that exercise class and we had to hold it outside because there was a funeral set up. Not a problem then because it was during the winter in Phoenix, but in the summer it would have been tough.  

And besides that, if we are pulling church members to do the day care etc then we are pulling them from services in the community like I talked about above.

This is one of the reasons for Just Seve. To support the community services already there that need our help.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Rain

[Rain]

7 hours ago, e-eye said:

Good, better, best. It’s good to serve on sundays but not better than renewing your covenants, learning and teaching together for a few hours. There’s a reason it’s a temple question.  Sometimes there are exceptions, but we really should be at church serving and then taking what we gain from there to all the world. 

Besides, the 3 hour block is only 1.8% of our week. While I recognize there is time spent in the temple and doing our callings and scriptures, 1.8% is not a lot of time to renew the covenants and help each other to face the rest of the week and encourage each other to grow and serve others. That isn't too say we can't be more effective - I just don't think it takes enough time to mean we can't do service as well at another time.

[changed]

3 hours ago, Rain said:

The church has looked into opening community services. What they found was that when that service was already in the community it was seen as competition and better than yours. They found it is much more effective and the best thing to support services that were already there.  

Funny thing is many people don't know or recognize the help the church is giving.  My friend went to a meeting where one charity gave recognition to 3 other charities that helped them, but didn't know that all 3 were actually our church because they came from places like the "bishop's storehouse".  

There are actually quite a few things happening in church houses.  My stake center has a group that has been doing exercise classes where all have been welcome for 30 years, though in a few different buildings. My last stake had exercise classes as well. I know of language classes and 12 step programs held in them.

While I'm good with filling them more we also have to be aware of scheduling conflicts that happen because of that. One day I went to that exercise class and we had to hold it outside because there was a funeral set up. Not a problem then because it was during the winter in Phoenix, but in the summer it would have been tough.  

And besides that, if we are pulling church members to do the day care etc then we are pulling them from services in the community like I talked about above.

This is one of the reasons for Just Seve. To support the community services already there that need our help.

 

I guess I am just comparing what the LDS curch in our neighborhood does with what the other church organizations in the neighborhood do.  Most of the other churches have youth and preschool programs during the day - quite a few LDS kids attend other churches during the week because of this.  (LDS moms are expected to stay at home, and not have a need for daycare or something?)  The other churches also have combined study groups - there is a Jewish-Christian alliance group for example, and combined humanitarian groups, which LDS church does not participate in.  I had a homeless girl living in her car in front of our home for 6 months who was a member (medical conditions / psychological conditions that did not allow her to use the guest room) and the church did not support her at all.  I had to work with the other religious organizations in the area (Baptists raised money and bought her a new car etc.)  The LDS church would not even let her use the showers in the bathroom during the day.  I am working with immigrants and refugees (I live on the boarder) - again, not through the LDS church, but through a Catholic organization who is supporting food and clothing needs.  I work with the city food bank - the LDS church does supply one type of food, but the # of volunteer hours and contributions pale in comparison to what the other church groups in the area are doing   Other churches hold non-denominational scripture study classes open to all... while LDS holds things like seminary that only teach Mormon doctrine which is not as inviting to a wider audience.  

Different wards from different areas - I know... just seems like our ward is more concerned with keeping the building clean than concerned with inviting the community in and being part of the neighborhood.  

[changed]

11 hours ago, e-eye said:

Good, better, best. It’s good to serve on sundays but not better than renewing your covenants, learning and teaching together for a few hours. There’s a reason it’s a temple question.  Sometimes there are exceptions, but we really should be at church serving and then taking what we gain from there to all the world. 

 

I'm pretty inactive at this point in time  - do not hold a temple recommend because I no longer trust the priesthood (abuse issues).  My baptism covenants involved something about service - I find more service opportunities outside the walls of the church...  dressing up, putting on makeup - pretending to be good and holy for 3 hours... I do not like it.  It does not feel genuine or real.  

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, changed said:

 

I'm pretty inactive at this point in time  - do not hold a temple recommend because I no longer trust the priesthood (abuse issues).  My baptism covenants involved something about service - I find more service opportunities outside the walls of the church...  dressing up, putting on makeup - pretending to be good and holy for 3 hours... I do not like it.  It does not feel genuine or real.  

I haven't worn makeup for decades, "dressing up" takes no more time than casual clothing.  Pretending....that is also a personal choice.  I don't pretend to be anything I am not, the only thing I don't do that I feel like doing is laying down on the pews rather than sitting on them.

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, changed said:

Other churches hold non-denominational scripture study classes open to all... while LDS holds things like seminary that only teach Mormon doctrine which is not as inviting to a wider audience.

Out of all of your critiques of the church in your post this one stood out to me the most.  Are you saying that the church should change it's doctrine, it's core beliefs, in order to be more popular?

(And I'm not sure what you mean by "things like seminary."  The church does actually hold seminary.)

[bsjkki]

I apologize if this was already discussed but I read the last few pages of this thread and not everything. 

I talked to my sister today and she has a friend who was told to not to submit her sons mission papers until after conference. Interesting....