Missionary Safety

[Prof]

Would a class on basic self defense and situational awareness be appropriate? Either at the MTC or in the field? Or as a P day activity?

[jkwilliams]

The Tribune is covering her story:

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/08/30/lds-church-says-it-wasnt/

[Hamba Tuhan]

9 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

What kind of training did you receive as a missionary? As I said, we received no specific training about safety or what to do in an emergency.

I served in the early 90s. All the missionaries who served in our headquarters city had a map in the flats, provided by the mission president (with input from the police force). It was colour-coded. We had areas that were safe to enter at any time, day or night. We had areas that were safe during the day only. We no-go zones. We had areas that were safe for Sisters during the day. We had areas that Sisters could go only with male escorts. And we had no-go zones for Sisters.

We also had training around what to do in the case of crowds, etc.

[Amulek]

18 minutes ago, Prof said:

Would a class on basic self defense and situational awareness be appropriate? Either at the MTC or in the field? Or as a P day activity?

Maybe. Or maybe it would just need to be an expansion of what is present in Preach My Gospel. 

I think any potential changes need to not only be informed by the safety survey but also measured by the actual degree of risk. 

 

[clarkgoble]

10 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

I don't remember there being any specific areas that sisters weren't supposed to serve. The welfare missionaries, in particular, worked in some pretty bad places in terms of poverty, crime, and living conditions. 

There were definitely areas sisters weren't supposed to serve or even be in my mission (Louisiana). In fact there were areas completely out of bounds. Still none of us were given even rudimentary training and I do think that would be helpful. Most green missionaries are incredibly naive and frequently come from sheltered suburban areas. 

BTW - regarding negativity about missions I think people talk negative just not in public areas like in Church meeting - mainly because people who haven't been on a mission really have zero idea of what the stresses are like or how scary at times it was. There's a lot of weird "utopian" attitudes towards missions commonly held by people who'd never been but never by people who have been. In some ways it's kind of like the stories you hear of people coming back from war and the gap between perception and reality leading to people not talking about it. (Not that a mission is anything like war mind you)

The other thing I wish they'd do is give some training about what to do when you get a bad companion. I mean ones who refuse to work, have mental conditions or the like. In particular the latter can be very hard - especially for young people with no background with mental illness.

[clarkgoble]

2 hours ago, Prof said:

Would a class on basic self defense and situational awareness be appropriate? Either at the MTC or in the field? Or as a P day activity?

Wouldn't really help that much in practice. (IMO)

[Hamba Tuhan]

8 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

We were specifically counseled not to share anything that might worry our families, so we basically lied about the conditions we were in.

I never received such counsel either before, during or after. And if I had, I would have ignored it since I'd sworn an oath to my mum that I'd tell her everything. I've repeatedly spoken openly about how difficult I found it to be a missionary at first, including in lessons and sacrament meeting talks. Just the other week, I was giving a driving lesson to one of the priests in our ward. He's currently not planning on serving, but I shared with him that 'my mission nearly killed me'. He seemed shocked that I would say such a thing for some reason. I think people really aren't listening.

[carbon dioxide]

There is always risk when dealing with the public in any capacity and I would think being a missionary, especially a sister mission elevates that risk when one is somewhat required to deal with strangers.  It would seem that some self defense courses in the MTC might be in order.  Surely they can spare an hour a day in the MTC for this.  Also where legal, carrying pepper spray would be a good idea.  What should not be done is to follow the advice in this real video made in Finland to stop sexual assault.  Ladies and Gentlemen, NOTHING in this video will stop an assault.  If is a funny video but also sad that they actually are serious about it.

 

[strappinglad]

Times have certainly changed in the world in 50 years. I served in the mid 60s in Guatemala during a Communist lead rebellion with people shot in the street every day and military helicopters always buzzing around. As a naïve farm kid I never once considered myself to be in danger. In those days , two guys in suits were thought by the locals to be FBI or CIA and they left us alone. Nowadays I guess we would be targets.

My son served in Argentina , and in the first couple of months their apartment was broken into and everything his new comp had was stolen, suitcase, clothes and all. The thieves were caught in the act by my son who proceeded to chase the thieves car and break the back window with his fist. I heard about this later and shook my head thinking what if they were armed and stopped to hurt him . Maybe the thieves were shocked at the daring move. Oh the guardian angels must work over time watching out for silly  missionaries. Sure , sometimes it is just dumb luck more missionaries don't get hurt or killed. I suspect that if one did a stat survey of any other group of 65000 youth, our missionaries would fall outside a couple of standard deviations from the average  of harm befalling them.

I do think that a mission specific outline of procedures and warnings should be given upon arrival at the mission home. I personally was warned about the dangers of drinking from a tap and the joys of " gambu "

[Thinking]

I don't remember any safety training in the MTC or in Peru. I do think that being 6' 4" was good protection.

[Bernard Gui]

I had guns pulled on me 6 times in Central America in the mid-60s.The Sandinistas were in the process of deposing the dictator Somoza in Nicaragua. Those are very violent countries still. Some people left us alone because they thought we were CIA. We learned safety, beyond what little common-sense Fool’s Hill climbers have, from older elders, our own experiences, and the President’s advice and information he received from local US government officials. Timely communication was very difficult. At one time we had 6 countries including Colombia and Venezuela, so presidential supervision was not optimal. I had never seen true poverty until I went there. On the other hand, for some of us, living on the edge with some brothers was pretty exciting, in a small way, I suppose, like my son Perdidissimo describes his experience in the Army (of course far, far reduced in scale and intensity, though there were moments like when a Honduran soldier stuck his carbine in my stomach and shouted, “¡Fuera! ¡Fuera!”). I had two companions who had seen combat in Vietnam. We watched out for the sisters who were always assigned to safer areas. I reckoned it was a part of the adventure.

Reading my great-uncle’s missionary journal in the Southern States Mission was an eye opener for me. He really had it tough.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, strappinglad said:

I do think that a mission specific outline of procedures and warnings should be given upon arrival at the mission home. I personally was warned about the dangers of drinking from a tap and the joys of " gambu "

Yes, that would be helpful.

And eating unwashed leafy vegetables and fruit. Wait! What do we wash the fruit in? Everyone met Montezuma and his brothers and uncles. Our President was a pharmacist so he recommended various medicines. You didn’t have to have prescriptions so we just went to a pharmacy and asked for whatever we needed. The mission president’s wife taught us a lot about food safety, but there were no guarantees.

[RevTestament]

11 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

There is always risk when dealing with the public in any capacity and I would think being a missionary, especially a sister mission elevates that risk when one is somewhat required to deal with strangers.  It would seem that some self defense courses in the MTC might be in order.  Surely they can spare an hour a day in the MTC for this.  Also where legal, carrying pepper spray would be a good idea.  What should not be done is to follow the advice in this real video made in Finland to stop sexual assault.  Ladies and Gentlemen, NOTHING in this video will stop an assault.  If is a funny video but also sad that they actually are serious about it.

 

It does seem absurd, but the rise in sexual assault in Finland is mostly due to Muslim immigrants. Many of them don't speak Finnish, and so clear and stern body language may work to catch the offender off-guard, and is worth a first try. Actually, probably the best defense for a woman is to wear an hijab in public, but in places with more muslims, they want it to be made illegal for non-Muslims to wear hijabs. But one of the highest offenses for a Muslim is to assault another Muslim's wife, although it is very difficult under Sharia law to prove rape - it requires four male witnesses or 8 female witnesses(since a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man's). Nevertheless, Muslim males typically assault non-Muslim women rather than other Muslims. Of course wearing an hijab or even a black scarf is not a real option for a missionary.

I've been thinking about the pepper spray defense since this thread was started, and I'm sure the Church has some reservations about allowing missionaries to carry pepper spray. However, it is not against the Law of the Lord to vigorously defend oneself if another has put their life in jeopardy. My wife and I just read this scripture the other night:

D&C 98:31 Nevertheless, thine enemy is in thine hands; and if thou rewardest him according to his works thou art justified; if he has sought thy life, and thy life is endangered by him, thine enemy is in thine hands and thou art justified.

I do not particularly like guns, and to "carry," one has to get a permit, which I just don't bother with. I only own a small caliber rifle. Further, spray is very compact and portable. It can be used to ward off animals without harming them, and can be very effective at disarming a would-be gunman or attacker. It can be taken safely and legally in your automobile, camping trips, etc. I personally would not be opposed to female missionaries being allowed to carry pepper spray, although I think the rules always requiring them to be in pairs significantly add to their safety. I suppose the main obstacle would be transporting the spray on planes, although most seem to allow up to four ounces in checked bags.

[strappinglad]

Always check which way the wind is blowing before using a spray. It may come back to bite you. Encourage the attacker to move around so your back is to the wind.

I once had a conversation with a 3 rd degree black belt and asked what he would do if confronted by 3 men. He said his first move would be to... turn and run away as fast as possible.

Edited August 30, 2018 by strappinglad

[RevTestament]

4 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Always check which way the wind is blowing before using a spray. It may come back to bite you. Encourage the attacker to move around so your back is to the wind.

I once had a conversation with a 3 rd degree black belt and asked what he would do if confronted by 3 men. He said his first move would be to... turn and run away as fast as possible.

Well, since you brought up the subject I bought a spray gel for this reason, and keep it where my wife can get to it easily. It can be safely sprayed even upwind in most situations.

[Calm]

I have accidentally sprayed myself.  20+ years ago, the spray was to go into a dispenser and I didn't get it quite centered and the nozzle was facing me.  Not full on, just a hint, but boy did it last and washing my skin and eyes spread it around more than cooled off.

Very educational experience.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Calm

[bsjkki]

I wanted to add this link to article about missionary safety. I think it discussed this topic perfectly. https://bycommonconsent.com/2018/08/31/missionary-safety-brainstorming/

I loved how she discussed this topic.

"I’m sure it’s statistically valid that missionaries are generally safer than, I dunno, drunken college students attending frat parties who dive into the wrong end of swimming pools. Granted. But when applied to missionaries as a group, safety is not really about obedience. God doesn’t say “Sister X, you didn’t read your scriptures today, so you will now be sexually assaulted.” We have this magical mindset that missionaries are going to be physically safe in dangerous situations if they do completely unrelated things [1]. But the fact is that missionaries are often in unsafe situations beyond their control, and no, they are not always protected even when they are obedient."

I also think we need to be careful with how we react to missionaries injuries/deaths. I have a friend whose son got in a car accident on his mission. He was paralyzed and is now a quadrapalegic. They were late returning to the apartment that night. Her son could not get his companion out the door to go home and he tried. His companion was driving and was not seriously injured in the accident. One of the questions she is frequently asked is, "where they obeying all the rules?"  How callous.  I think it is human nature to have this illusion of control over our lives...that if we are obediant and good enough, we won't have bad things happen. Conversely, people are at fault for the bad things that happen in their lives. The story of the blind man in the New Testement puts this theory to rest. I do believe the commandments help us avoid known pitfalls and troubles...but some just come no matter how righteous we are. When people ask that questions of my friend, it seems like they are saying, her son deserved his fate. 

"I do believe you can feel spiritual warnings to avoid situations or get out of a place, but that doesn’t mean that nothing will ever happen to you or that you are at fault if something does. It doesn’t mean you are disobedient or a bad missionary, or that those who aren’t assaulted are somehow better. When we say this, it’s a weird twist on the prosperity gospel: if you are righteous, you will prosper; therefore if you prosper, you were righteous. Ergo, bad things only happen to disobedient people, or in other words, bad things only happen to bad people. Wrong, wrong, wrong."

The author also lists 10 suggestions for improving missionary safety. 

[Tacenda]

On 8/30/2018 at 2:23 AM, Bernard Gui said:

I had guns pulled on me 6 times in Central America in the mid-60s.The Sandinistas were in the process of deposing the dictator Somoza in Nicaragua. Those are very violent countries still. Some people left us alone because they thought we were CIA. We learned safety, beyond what little common-sense Fool’s Hill climbers have, from older elders, our own experiences, and the President’s advice and information he received from local US government officials. Timely communication was very difficult. At one time we had 6 countries including Colombia and Venezuela, so presidential supervision was not optimal. I had never seen true poverty until I went there. On the other hand, for some of us, living on the edge with some brothers was pretty exciting, in a small way, I suppose, like my son Perdidissimo describes his experience in the Army (of course far, far reduced in scale and intensity, though there were moments like when a Honduran soldier stuck his carbine in my stomach and shouted, “¡Fuera! ¡Fuera!”). I had two companions who had seen combat in Vietnam. We watched out for the sisters who were always assigned to safer areas. I reckoned it was a part of the adventure.

Reading my great-uncle’s missionary journal in the Southern States Mission was an eye opener for me. He really had it tough.

My son served in the Oakland California Mission and the surrounding areas. It may as well have been in Central America!  I felt good when I had read that a lot of the gangs would not harm a representative from God. So a good thing for a missionary to where the badges and suits? 

My son got in good with a group by playing basketball with a few of them, he is an amazing player for his height, pretty short like my husband. The danger came from his companion when he was attacked and hit for asking for the cell phone, that this companion was using under a blanket. My son had to run to get away to the nearest store and stayed there for awhile. He called his mission president who told him to continue being companions for a couple more weeks. He told him no one else could stand being around his companion since the guy had anger issues, but my son who is more of a peace maker could.  🤮

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

I wanted to add this link to article about missionary safety. I think it discussed this topic perfectly. https://bycommonconsent.com/2018/08/31/missionary-safety-brainstorming/

I loved how she discussed this topic.

"I’m sure it’s statistically valid that missionaries are generally safer than, I dunno, drunken college students attending frat parties who dive into the wrong end of swimming pools. Granted. But when applied to missionaries as a group, safety is not really about obedience. God doesn’t say “Sister X, you didn’t read your scriptures today, so you will now be sexually assaulted.” We have this magical mindset that missionaries are going to be physically safe in dangerous situations if they do completely unrelated things [1]. But the fact is that missionaries are often in unsafe situations beyond their control, and no, they are not always protected even when they are obedient."

I also think we need to be careful with how we react to missionaries injuries/deaths. I have a friend whose son got in a car accident on his mission. He was paralyzed and is now a quadrapalegic. They were late returning to the apartment that night. Her son could not get his companion out the door to go home and he tried. His companion was driving and was not seriously injured in the accident. One of the questions she is frequently asked is, "where they obeying all the rules?"  How callous.  I think it is human nature to have this illusion of control over our lives...that if we are obediant and good enough, we won't have bad things happen. Conversely, people are at fault for the bad things that happen in their lives. The story of the blind man in the New Testement puts this theory to rest. I do believe the commandments help us avoid known pitfalls and troubles...but some just come no matter how righteous we are. When people ask that questions of my friend, it seems like they are saying, her son deserved his fate. 

"I do believe you can feel spiritual warnings to avoid situations or get out of a place, but that doesn’t mean that nothing will ever happen to you or that you are at fault if something does. It doesn’t mean you are disobedient or a bad missionary, or that those who aren’t assaulted are somehow better. When we say this, it’s a weird twist on the prosperity gospel: if you are righteous, you will prosper; therefore if you prosper, you were righteous. Ergo, bad things only happen to disobedient people, or in other words, bad things only happen to bad people. Wrong, wrong, wrong."

The author also lists 10 suggestions for improving missionary safety. 

Then there is the history of the 2060 Sons of Helaman. Faith and obedience worked well for them. One might call the Lehite Promise....if you are righteous you will prosper in the land...prosperity gospel; however, even when they were righteous, bad things happened. In the long run, it always turned out best for them. That is one of the messages of the Book of Mormon.

[bsjkki]

14 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Then there is the history of the 2060 Sons of Helaman. Faith and obedience worked well for them. One might call the Lehite Promise....if you are righteous you will prosper in the land...prosperity gospel; however, even when they were righteous, bad things happened. In the long run, it always turned out best for them. That is one of the messages of the Book of Mormon.

So, are you saying we should preach “the prosperity gospel?”

If, “in the end” you mean in the eternities, that is probably so. 

Do you believe the more prosperous among us are the most righteous? The Lehite Promise was a specific promise but I don’t think it correlates to more than this one event. Many righteous, faithful men likely died in the battle that spared the Sons of Helamen.

Was Joseph Smith’s life so difficult because he wasn’t righteous enough?

Living the Gospel does make stronger families and stronger families make stronger communities which in turn can provide greater wealth to a population. I think this is very true in the Macro sense but fails on the Micro level.

[Bernard Gui]

11 hours ago, bsjkki said:

So, are you saying we should preach “the prosperity gospel?

To some extent, yes, but in the sense that it is popularly preached by megapreachers. I am saying the Lehite Promise is a main theme of the Book of Mormon.... obey God and prosper in this land. But nothing there about sending faith seed money to a megachurch pastor.

Quote

If, “in the end” you mean in the eternities, that is probably so. 

Do you believe the more prosperous among us are the most righteous? The Lehite Promise was a specific promise but I don’t think it correlates to more than this one event. Many righteous, faithful men likely died in the battle that spared the Sons of Helamen.

Nope......”for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” Indeed many good people died, much to their sorrow, but the SoH were protected over the space of many battles as they were promised.

The Lehite Promise covers all inhabitants of the Land of Promise....

Quote

Ether 2:9 And now, we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity.

10 For behold, this is a land which is choice above all other lands; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God. And it is not until the fulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are swept off.

11 And this cometh unto you, O ye Gentiles, that ye may know the decrees of God—that ye may repent, and not continue in your iniquities until the fulness come, that ye may not bring down the fulness of the wrath of God upon you as the inhabitants of the land have hitherto done.

12 Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written.

 

Quote

Was Joseph Smith’s life so difficult because he wasn’t righteous enough?

Of course not, although some may agree. He thought it was difficult so that he could be perfected....

Quote

I am like a huge, rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors, suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women—all hell knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus I will become a smooth and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty, who will give me dominion over all and every one of them, when their refuge of lies shall fail, and their hiding place shall be destroyed, while these smooth-polished stones with which I come in contact become marred.

 

Quote

Living the Gospel does make stronger families and stronger families make stronger communities which in turn can provide greater wealth to a population. I think this is very true in the Macro sense but fails on the Micro level.

Perhaps, but I do not discount God’s promises to protect those who love and serve him.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Amulek]

On 8/30/2018 at 7:34 PM, Calm said:

I have accidentally sprayed myself.  20+ years ago, the spray was to go into a dispenser and I didn't get it quite centered and the nozzle was facing me.  Not full on, just a hint, but boy did it last and washing my skin and eyes spread it around more than cooled off.

Very educational experience.

When I was on my mission, we were helping a lady clean out one of the rooms in her house as a service project. While doing so we happened to uncover an old can of pepper spray. 

I had, up to that point in my life, never been subjected to pepper spray and was curious about how bad it really was. I mean, it's not lethal, right?

So, I did what any reasonable missionary would do: I dared the other Elders to try it out with me. I got most them to agree by making it into one of those, "I'll do it if you do it" kind of things.

I think they were relying on me to not actually go through with it - that was their downfall.  

What ensued was one of the most painful, but also hilarious, moments of my mission. I know it sounds juvenile, but it was really worth it.

Plus, I'll forever have ingrained in my memory the eye-roll which was given to me by that dear sister when I asked her for permission to use her pepper spray (and told her what we planed on doing with it). LOL. 

 

[bsjkki]

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Perhaps, but I do not discount God’s promises to protect those who love and serve him.

What does this look like in the world today? Bad things happen to really righteous people. I believe your statement is true, but I also believe he lets bad things happen too. I don't believe if someone gets injured or assaulted it is because they did something wrong. I don't believe every righteous servant will get a miracle of protection or healing. I do not believe we should judge a persons righteousness based on their wealth or health. I also believe an overall righteous people will be blessed and prosper.

 

[The Nehor]

On 8/29/2018 at 11:18 PM, strappinglad said:

Times have certainly changed in the world in 50 years. I served in the mid 60s in Guatemala during a Communist lead rebellion with people shot in the street every day and military helicopters always buzzing around. As a naïve farm kid I never once considered myself to be in danger. In those days , two guys in suits were thought by the locals to be FBI or CIA and they left us alone. Nowadays I guess we would be targets.

My son served in Argentina , and in the first couple of months their apartment was broken into and everything his new comp had was stolen, suitcase, clothes and all. The thieves were caught in the act by my son who proceeded to chase the thieves car and break the back window with his fist. I heard about this later and shook my head thinking what if they were armed and stopped to hurt him . Maybe the thieves were shocked at the daring move. Oh the guardian angels must work over time watching out for silly  missionaries. Sure , sometimes it is just dumb luck more missionaries don't get hurt or killed. I suspect that if one did a stat survey of any other group of 65000 youth, our missionaries would fall outside a couple of standard deviations from the average  of harm befalling them.

I do think that a mission specific outline of procedures and warnings should be given upon arrival at the mission home. I personally was warned about the dangers of drinking from a tap and the joys of " gambu "

My mission was not that dangerous but I had a gun pulled on me. Kids would fire rocks at us with slingshots and one almost hit  my companion’s head. Also got assaulted by a guy and was spitting out blood afterwards. My companion ran when he threw the first punch and I was lying on the pavement (thanks Elder) so companionship unity suffered a bit. Still have a small scar in my mouth. I think of it every time I read of Paul taking stripes for the cause of Christ.

I also saw it as an adventure. My first thought after I got away was that I had to get some pictures. It is part of the thrill. As much as I do not think I could do it again I am glad that stuff happened. It was, in a strange way, fun. I can tell stories of being threatened, attacked, chased, nearly into get a fight with a local crime family to protect an investigator, and being assaulted by an unclean spirit. Then there was the time a group of guys were describing graphically how they wanted to engage in forcible inappropriate intimate relations my companion. He did not understand what they were saying (poor kid missed out on learning exotic metaphors somehow) and thought they were being nice and went over to try to teach them. I practically had to drag him away. Yeah, same guy that ran away. You are welcome. Another companion punched a guy in the face for mugging him at knifepoint a few weeks before and we got to go to court to testify and see that some British judges do wear those silly wigs. And I was either too dumb to realize how dangerous it was or (more likely) was too young to care.

While I encourage any reasonable steps to protect missionaries I hope if we make changes they do not take the missionaries out of the fray too much. While things like Service Missions and restricting missionaries to safer areas have their place I think the next generation will miss out on much if it is too sanitized. As others have said it is not combat by any means but the cause is more just and we go in with less physical weaponry.

[The Nehor]

11 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Perhaps, but I do not discount God’s promises to protect those who love and serve him.

God does not usually promise physical safety. King Mosiah was a rare exception as a missionary’s parent. While God often delivers the faithful in tragic circumstances I think more of poor Amulek likely watching his family thrown into the flames and asking (possibly begging) Alma to use the power of God and do something and God said no.

Edited September 5, 2018 by The Nehor