"Faith Crisis" support group?

[RevTestament]

55 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

So......next year?

nope

[Bernard Gui]

9 hours ago, changed said:

The podcasters don't stand between anyone and anyone else - they try to stand "with" people.  "with" - not in front of "with" -  they ask questions, listen to people's stories, and try to see those around them "face-to-face".  ... if you want to experience what being "united" is, I think the podcasters are onto something.  

United in what way? United for or against whom?

[Bernard Gui]

9 hours ago, rockpond said:

The part above that I put in bold is an unfounded conclusion on your part:  Listening to a podcast to gain knowledge, insight, and a different perspective is not equivalent to letting the podcaster become ones advocate and spokesperson.  You'll have to provide some additional evidence to support that leap.....

You didn’t answer my question but that’s okay, I find your position on this to be unsupportable... simply a cheap attack on podcasters, many of whom have noble motivations. 

Perhaps you could explain what you think my position is. You could also do me the favor of answering my questions.

Yes. When I was serving as bishop, the Ex-Mormons for Jesus set up a hotline for anyone, especially troubled members, to call for advice and to get the truth about the Mormon Church really believes. They advertised the number in the local paper and on tracts they passed out. That was about as close to a podcast as there was in those days. They had a daily message exposing some outrageous thing or other the Mormons did or believed and offered more personal contact if the caller desired.

They followed the missionaries around, and after the elders left the home of an investigator, they would knock on the door and offer to tell the people what was wrong with the Church. In one instance they contacted a recently baptized family and told them Mormons had secret naked orgies in the temple, and that if they challenged me with that disclosure, I would deny it....which on cue I vehemently did....but they never came back. The ex-Mos’ intentions were to remove the people from the Church and do it in such a way that they would never come back and perhaps even join the cause. There are folks that do the same thing today, just using another medium to achieve their purposes.

I became involved with old Compuserve LDS forum and the ZLMB message board way back, the predecessor to this board. It was associated with FAIR, I believe. Back then almost all the dialogue was about doctrines, and often with non-LDS Christians who either had questions about the Church or bones to pick. Occasionally members would come with troubling questions.  There were a few nasty folks (both non-LDS and former LDS), of course, but generally it was a pretty robust and positive place with some very prominent LDS members who participated. The purpose was to give positive, faithful, uplifting, faith-increasing information to questioners and to discuss the gospel in a positive environment. I am sad to see this board evolve into a place where disaffected or ex-members come to challenge the Church, it’s Doctrine, history, and leaders. Unfortunately, the tone and content have driven away almost all the prominent folks. I hope their goals and intentions are wholesome, but it seems pretty divisive.

Today, podcasters and other advisors fill those roles. There may be others who just think offering a listening ear provides some service. I would hope their desire would be to keep the questioner in the fold if at all possible.

Quote

but welcome advice from podcasters, some of whom are eager to jump in and offer their services. In this way, a podcaster comes between the person and the Lord, becoming His advocate and spokesperson, taking the place of legitimate priesthood leaders.

I don’t mean the advisor becomes the advocate for the person with the Lord, but that he assumes the role the Lord’s advocate with that person. He puts himself in the place of the prophet, whether he is supporting or opposing the Church. In the case of those leading away the Saints, that’s a pretty heavy assumption of authority. In the Book of Mormon, it did not end well for them.

For those whose intent is to keep the strays safely in the fold, to me that is still an assumption of authority, but I find it reasonably acceptable and laudatory and could have some scriptural support. 

Doesn’t it seem odd that even though God has blessed us with a full panoply of Prophets and apostles, holy scriptures, the restored Gospel, the true authoritative ordinances of Salvation, a viable organized Church, and the ability to do much good, but that many of us either ignore them or pick apart their words, pit them against each other, seek out and shout their faults, and peck on each other? Then we recall the vision of the Tree of Life and the Parables of the Sower and the Wheat and the Tares, and it doesn’t seem that odd after all. It’s to be expected. 

My hope is that all those advisors and podcasters are trying to keep everyone firmly attached to the iron rod and blooming in fertile soil. Those that aren’t, I don’t wish them joy.

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Calm]

"

Quote

Itwas associated with FAIR, I believe.

No, the very first incarnation of this board was, but once people starting responding to FAIR as if the board was the main representative of it and thinking the message board posters were FAIR members, it was pretty clear the association needed to be severed.  Only a small percentage of FAIR members ever posted here.  Fewer now.  There are many more websites that can occupy their time and resources these days, our own FM website is always trying to get new content and improve what we have, the Interpreter is always looking for articles, Book of Mormon Central now has some of the once most active posters producing for it.  

Most conversations outside of the news generated ones are generally repeats.  New faces show up, but few new topics.  Rajah's geographical theory is probably the most novel topic of recent years, he impresses me for the detail he has found.  Champsatch's stuff is reporting an ongoing work, so his stuff is new building on the old.

Not saying that conversations aren't worth having, just that I can understand why some people have lost interest overtime.

ZLMB was set up in response to posters getting banned right and left for talking about actual LDS belief on the UTLM boards.  Never associated with FAIR, though many attended the conferences and some were members (I became one not too long after joining ZLMB which is how I found out about FAIR).  It was set up to be a community where anyone could come discuss faith and faith communities, only temple content was banned because that would drive LDS away.  While the owner was LDS, we had three nonLDS mods as well and decisions for banning had to be done by committee.  Didn't work well as not all mods were available, especially as time went on.

You may be thinking more of the first incarnation of this board, which almost died iirc because of the high emphasis on uplifting.  Juliann probably remembers that better than me, I was pretty occupied supervising the self destruction of ZLMB during that time period so that is what I remember.

Speaking of gone missing posters, anyone have any contact with TheSometimesaint lately? 

[changed]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

United in what way? United for or against whom?

 

United through shared experiences, united in the quest for personal exploration and freedom of thought, united in the quest to find truth at all cost.

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, RevTestament said:

nope

This year?

[CV75]

8 hours ago, rockpond said:

Yes, people in stages 4, 5, and 6 can take those teachings and make them fit within a stage 4/5/6 faith.  But those phrases don’t encourage advancement from stage 3, they encourage members to stay in stage 3.  All true or all a fraud is decidedly anti-stage 4.  Being told to just “trust us”, follow the prophet, and stay in the boat doesn’t inherently help one into stage 4 or beyond.  It tells one that the way to remain safe in their salvation is to maintain a stage 3 faith. 

Since people in stages 4, 5, and 6 find the teachings fit their developmental level, and these same people also heard these same teachings while at stage 3 (and in some cases 2, 1 and 0 – all their lives), then obviously something outside Foster’s psychological model is operating, individual application of the teachings advanced their development, or (my take) both. In either case, the developmental stage is not driven by the teaching or a simple phrase in isolation but by acting on information and incorporating it with other life inputs in a personal way. LDS teachings and keys are presented in a way to bring people closer to Christ.

A purely psychological approach is insufficient. When Christ tells us to become as little children (3 Nephi 11), He is not encouraging us to remain in stages 1-3 or to regress to stage 0 to 2 from stages 3 through 6. The attributes He (according to King Benjamin, Mosiah 3:19) associates with becoming as children are those characteristics we can psychologically associate with stage 6: “submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father,” which describe Christ.

A model that better reflects faith development in my opinion is the parable of the sower. The pressures of life (temptation, doubt, insecurity and instability, cares of the world, materialism, and pride) can impact whether and how far one advances. But once it dawns on him that he can choose to amend the soil, he can advance both psychologically and spiritually.

This is why it is contradictory to say these messages don’t inherently help people advance from stage 3 to 4 while at the same time portray that they inherently encourage people not to. There’s no inherent power in them, and what someone does with them however they are presented, is well beyond the power of the simple phrase. This is why the Spirit and keys are so essential in presenting these concepts, which for discussion purposes we have deconstructed into phrases that can mean anything to anybody.

[changed]

16 hours ago, CV75 said:

The trick, I think, is to be united under the keys. I'm assuming these podcasts to which you are referring to are not are not operating under the keys. Which isn't terrible in and of itself, but there is something fuller lacking. Which isn't terrible either if those who turn to these for comfort can still unite with those who have the keys and unite with the those who have the keys. It's not like people in a faith crisis have to choose sides.

 

The thing is, my faith crisis is a result of the actions of those who had "keys".  I'm not quite able to trust an organization who calls pedophiles to occupy leadership positions... One bad apple?  Two in my case?  and everyone else who was "supposed" to be led by G-d calling and supporting these brethren...   Either there are quite a few "leaders" in the church who are not led by G-d, or G-d is a monster... I'm trying to believe G-d is not a monster.  People without "keys" have helped me quite a bit more than those with.  

Without keys - humble, open, non-defensive, non-controlling, supportive... 

With - ... ok, I'm not going to go there.

Edited June 29, 2018 by changed

[RevTestament]

45 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

This year?

That's not a few years. You asked for something specific, and I showed it to you. Sorry, if that is not specific enough. I do not know the day nor the hour if that is what you are trying to point out. But, we know more than they did for most of the last 2000 years. Whether this constitutes the second coming as you envision it, I'm not really sure.

[RevTestament]

32 minutes ago, changed said:

The thing is, my faith crisis is a result of the actions of those who had "keys".  I'm not quite able to trust an organization who calls pedophiles to occupy leadership positions... One bad apple?  Two in my case?  and everyone else who was "supposed" to be led by G-d calling and supporting these brethren...   Either there are quite a few "leaders" in the church who are not led by G-d, or G-d is a monster... I'm trying to believe G-d is not a monster.  People without "keys" have helped me quite a bit more than those with.  

Without keys - humble, open, non-defensive, non-controlling, supportive... 

With - ... ok, I'm not going to go there.

Unfortunately, God has nothing but sinners to work with:

D&C 121:

39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

I have seen what you describe here, and it is tragic. It has caused faith crises in others as well, including my wife. I think in the past the Church has had a tendency not to take those who object to certain priesthood callings seriously enough. That needs to change, if it hasn't already. I think what you describe here has happened in every type of organization including churches. i know my typical MO is to affirm callings unless I know something personally which would disqualify the person being called. Usually, there is little time to "consult with God." While it may be tempting to lay some blame on the whole Church, I think that is unfair.

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, changed said:

 

United through shared experiences, united in the quest for personal exploration and freedom of thought, united in the quest to find truth at all cost.

And...

United in keeping the commandments and remembering the Savior. United in serving one another. United in worship. United in caring for the poor, widows, fatherless. United in proclaiming the gospel and searching out our dead, building temples, giving tithes and offerings, doing good to all men. United in supporting the Lord’s representatives in righteousness. United in standing against sin. United in charity, mercy, and forgiveness.

[rockpond]

10 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Perhaps you could explain what you think my position is. You could also do me the favor of answering my questions.

Yes. When I was serving as bishop, the Ex-Mormons for Jesus set up a hotline for anyone, especially troubled members, to call for advice and to get the truth about the Mormon Church really believes. They advertised the number in the local paper and on tracts they passed out. That was about as close to a podcast as there was in those days. They had a daily message exposing some outrageous thing or other the Mormons did or believed and offered more personal contact if the caller desired.

They followed the missionaries around, and after the elders left the home of an investigator, they would knock on the door and offer to tell the people what was wrong with the Church. In one instance they contacted a recently baptized family and told them Mormons had secret naked orgies in the temple, and that if they challenged me with that disclosure, I would deny it....which on cue I vehemently did....but they never came back. The ex-Mos’ intentions were to remove the people from the Church and do it in such a way that they would never come back and perhaps even join the cause. There are folks that do the same thing today, just using another medium to achieve their purposes.

I became involved with old Compuserve LDS forum and the ZLMB message board way back, the predecessor to this board. It was associated with FAIR, I believe. Back then almost all the dialogue was about doctrines, and often with non-LDS Christians who either had questions about the Church or bones to pick. Occasionally members would come with troubling questions.  There were a few nasty folks (both non-LDS and former LDS), of course, but generally it was a pretty robust and positive place with some very prominent LDS members who participated. The purpose was to give positive, faithful, uplifting, faith-increasing information to questioners and to discuss the gospel in a positive environment. I am sad to see this board evolve into a place where disaffected or ex-members come to challenge the Church, it’s Doctrine, history, and leaders. Unfortunately, the tone and content have driven away almost all the prominent folks. I hope their goals and intentions are wholesome, but it seems pretty divisive.

Today, podcasters and other advisors fill those roles. There may be others who just think offering a listening ear provides some service. I would hope their desire would be to keep the questioner in the fold if at all possible.

I don’t mean the advisor becomes the advocate for the person with the Lord, but that he assumes the role the Lord’s advocate with that person. He puts himself in the place of the prophet, whether he is supporting or opposing the Church. In the case of those leading away the Saints, that’s a pretty heavy assumption of authority. In the Book of Mormon, it did not end well for them.

For those whose intent is to keep the strays safely in the fold, to me that is still an assumption of authority, but I find it reasonably acceptable and laudatory and could have some scriptural support. 

Doesn’t it seem odd that even though God has blessed us with a full panoply of Prophets and apostles, holy scriptures, the restored Gospel, the true authoritative ordinances of Salvation, a viable organized Church, and the ability to do much good, but that many of us either ignore them or pick apart their words, pit them against each other, seek out and shout their faults, and peck on each other? Then we recall the vision of the Tree of Life and the Parables of the Sower and the Wheat and the Tares, and it doesn’t seem that odd after all. It’s to be expected. 

My hope is that all those advisors and podcasters are trying to keep everyone firmly attached to the iron rod and blooming in fertile soil. Those that aren’t, I don’t wish them joy.

 

An unfair and unfounded comparison.  If you want to cast judgment on podcasters or members who listen to those podcasters, you ought to be observing what they actually do, not making over-generalized and baseless conclusions.  Show some evidence not just your bias against them. 

[ALarson]

7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

And...

United in keeping the commandments and remembering the Savior. United in serving one another. United in worship. United in caring for the poor, widows, fatherless. United in proclaiming the gospel and searching out our dead, building temples, giving tithes and offerings, doing good to all men. United in supporting the Lord’s representatives in righteousness. United in standing against sin. United in charity, mercy, and forgiveness.

I see those who are struggling and looking for support as being united in searching for the truth.  I believe it's just that simple.

All that you've listed is great, but they want the truth and feel that's what they have not completely received in the past from church leaders and lessons at church, etc.  I know the church is working on being more open and they are revealing more details regarding difficult topics, but that does not change the fact that many members still don't know about these yet and when they discover that Joseph married 14 year old girls, had over 30 wives and married other men's wives (just an example), they go searching for what else they haven't been told at church.  I'm not claiming that information wasn't available somewhere, but it certainly was not taught.  It still isn't really taught....try bringing up the words "Joseph's polygamy" at church in a class environment and see the reaction you get.  Members are starved for the truth and they go looking for others who are searching as well..

Edited June 29, 2018 by ALarson

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

"

No, the very first incarnation of this board was, but once people starting responding to FAIR as if the board was the main representative of it and thinking the message board posters were FAIR members, it was pretty clear the association needed to be severed.  Only a small percentage of FAIR members ever posted here.  Fewer now.  There are many more websites that can occupy their time and resources these days, our own FM website is always trying to get new content and improve what we have, the Interpreter is always looking for articles, Book of Mormon Central now has some of the once most active posters producing for it.  

Most conversations outside of the news generated ones are generally repeats.  New faces show up, but few new topics.  Rajah's geographical theory is probably the most novel topic of recent years, he impresses me for the detail he has found.  Champsatch's stuff is reporting an ongoing work, so his stuff is new building on the old.

Not saying that conversations aren't worth having, just that I can understand why some people have lost interest overtime.

ZLMB was set up in response to posters getting banned right and left for talking about actual LDS belief on the UTLM boards.  Never associated with FAIR, though many attended the conferences and some were members (I became one not too long after joining ZLMB which is how I found out about FAIR).  It was set up to be a community where anyone could come discuss faith and faith communities, only temple content was banned because that would drive LDS away.  While the owner was LDS, we had three nonLDS mods as well and decisions for banning had to be done by committee.  Didn't work well as not all mods were available, especially as time went on.

You may be thinking more of the first incarnation of this board, which almost died iirc because of the high emphasis on uplifting.  Juliann probably remembers that better than me, I was pretty occupied supervising the self destruction of ZLMB during that time period so that is what I remember.

Speaking of gone missing posters, anyone have any contact with TheSometimesaint lately? 

Thanks. It’s amazing how much I forget as the age creeps upward.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[rockpond]

2 hours ago, CV75 said:

Since people in stages 4, 5, and 6 find the teachings fit their developmental level, and these same people also heard these same teachings while at stage 3 (and in some cases 2, 1 and 0 – all their lives), then obviously something outside Foster’s psychological model is operating, individual application of the teachings advanced their development, or (my take) both. In either case, the developmental stage is not driven by the teaching or a simple phrase in isolation but by acting on information and incorporating it with other life inputs in a personal way. LDS teachings and keys are presented in a way to bring people closer to Christ.

 

A purely psychological approach is insufficient. When Christ tells us to become as little children (3 Nephi 11), He is not encouraging us to remain in stages 1-3 or to regress to stage 0 to 2 from stages 3 through 6. The attributes He (according to King Benjamin, Mosiah 3:19) associates with becoming as children are those characteristics we can psychologically associate with stage 6: “submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father,” which describe Christ.

 

A model that better reflects faith development in my opinion is the parable of the sower. The pressures of life (temptation, doubt, insecurity and instability, cares of the world, materialism, and pride) can impact whether and how far one advances. But once it dawns on him that he can choose to amend the soil, he can advance both psychologically and spiritually.

 

This is why it is contradictory to say these messages don’t inherently help people advance from stage 3 to 4 while at the same time portray that they inherently encourage people not to. There’s no inherent power in them, and what someone does with them however they are presented, is well beyond the power of the simple phrase. This is why the Spirit and keys are so essential in presenting these concepts, which for discussion purposes we have deconstructed into phrases that can mean anything to anybody.

 

There is no inherent power in the teachings of our prophet and apostles?  I disagree. 

And that some members manage to move into stages of faith that are beyond stage 3, doesn’t mean that those messages I identified aren’t stage 3 messages.  For me, those teachings (the ones I identified) were principles that I had to reject to be able to move beyond a stage 3 faith   Accepting those three teachings at face value locks you into stage 3.  Are you expecting me to believe that when the Brethren send those messages out to church members what they are actually hoping for is that members will reject or re-interpret them so that they can move into a stage 4-5 faith?

 

[Bernard Gui]

13 minutes ago, rockpond said:

An unfair and unfounded comparison.  If you want to cast judgment on podcasters or members who listen to those podcasters, you ought to be observing what they actually do, not making over-generalized and baseless conclusions.  Show some evidence not just your bias against them. 

Apparently you missed this...among other things.

Quote

My hope is that all those advisors and podcasters are trying to keep everyone firmly attached to the iron rod and blooming in fertile soil. Those that aren’t, I don’t wish them joy.

I do have a pronounced bias against those whose efforts create and perpetuate division and intend to lead people off the true path.

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

6 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thanks. It’s amazing how much I forget as the age creeps upward. Whatevervbecame of Richard Abanes?

Quite a few missing. I hope you that still read will speak up. I'd like to know if it's posters like me that turn you off.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Tacenda

[CV75]

2 hours ago, changed said:

 

The thing is, my faith crisis is a result of the actions of those who had "keys".  I'm not quite able to trust an organization who calls pedophiles to occupy leadership positions... One bad apple?  Two in my case?  and everyone else who was "supposed" to be led by G-d calling and supporting these brethren...   Either there are quite a few "leaders" in the church who are not led by G-d, or G-d is a monster... I'm trying to believe G-d is not a monster.  People without "keys" have helped me quite a bit more than those with.  

Without keys - humble, open, non-defensive, non-controlling, supportive... 

With - ... ok, I'm not going to go there.

I see. I’m not in a position to counsel you about that and don’t want to probe into all the facts involved.

But I would go with God is not a monster, and therefore 1) no matter how bad a man can get in his priesthood calling, He will Personally make it up to you; 2) if you’ve benefited from any of the ordinances He has given you, you have still benefited from the keys (no matter how badly  a man with keys can abuse his trust); and 3) the light of Christ is readily available with or without keys.

[Bernard Gui]

13 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I see those who are struggling and looking for support as being united in searching for the truth.  I believe it's just that simple.

All that you've listed is great, but they want the truth and feel that's what they have not completely received in the past from church leaders and lessons at church, etc.  I know the church is working on being more open and they are revealing more details regarding difficult topics, but that does not change the fact that many members still don't know about these yet and when they discover that Joseph married 14 year old girls, had over 30 wives and married other men's wives (just an example), they go searching for what else they haven't been told at church.  I'm not claiming that information wasn't available somewhere, but it certainly was not taught.  It still isn't really taught....try bringing up the words "Joseph's polygamy" at church in a class environment and see the reaction you get.  Members are starved for the truth and they go looking for others who are searching as well.

I understand what you are saying, but I don’t agree that it’s so simple. I have been through the process myself. I found that It is ultimately best to look for the truth from its source. Otherwise we get the vision of the Tree of Life.

[ALarson]

6 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I understand what you are saying, but I don’t agree that it’s so simple. I have been through the process myself. I found that It is ultimately best to look for the truth from its source. Otherwise we get the vision of the Tree of Life.

But when members feel "the source" has not been completely forthcoming with the truth, their trust is shaken.  Many do pray and turn to the Lord and feel guided to search for the truth by going directly to original sources, documents, journals, records and so on.  Sometimes what they discover is very difficult to come to terms with and remain active.   I know we are told to choose to believe and stay active, but when someone's belief is shaken or shattered, it's difficult to do that.  I think there's nothing wrong with using all kinds of support available when searching for the truth.  What needs to be remembered is to find the sources yourself, study them, pray about them and then come to your own conclusions.  It's the conclusions of others that may lead you astray.  But let's not be afraid of members searching for the truth and looking for others who are doing the same.

[Jeanne]

Just now, ALarson said:

But when members feel "the source" has not been completely forthcoming with the truth, their trust is shaken.  Many do pray and turn to the Lord and feel guided to search for the truth by going directly to original sources, documents, journals, records and so on.  Sometimes what they discover is very difficult to come to terms with and remain active.   I know we are told to choose to believe and stay active, but when someone's belief is shaken or shattered, it's difficult to do that.  I think there's nothing wrong with using all kinds of support available when searching for the truth.  What needs to be remembered is to find the sources yourself, study them, pray about them and then come to your own conclusions.  It's the conclusions of others that may lead you astray.  But let's not be afraid of members searching for the truth and looking for others who are doing the same.

I agree.  Sometimes we get the same answer from the source for different questions...so we roll our eyes and try to believe and look for something else.

[Bernard Gui]

16 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Quite a few missing. I hope you that still read will speak up. I'd like to know if it's posters like me that turn you off.

No, it’s not posters like you that run people off. I think it partly may be unnecessary personal attacks and the frustration of answering the same questions over and over, having their answers rejected, and wanting to move on to something more productive. For example, there are many places like FAIR  that are a great way to deal with the repetitive issues, but not everyone is willing to even look or they reject the answers that are given simply because they come from faithful Mormons. In the end, IMO, we council with the Lord and choose our path. He will judge our desires.

[Bernard Gui]

1 minute ago, Jeanne said:

I agree.  Sometimes we get the same answer from the source for different questions...so we roll our eyes and try to believe and look for something else.

At what point does the eye rolling stop and the eyes become single to the glory of God?

[Jeanne]

8 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

At what point does the eye rolling stop and the eyes become single to the glory of God?

When we stop getting the same answers for different questions.  Which is why when I seek the Glory of God, I know longer go through the leaders of any church.

[Bernard Gui]

6 minutes ago, ALarson said:

But when members feel "the source" has not been completely forthcoming with the truth, their trust is shaken.  Many do pray and turn to the Lord and feel guided to search for the truth by going directly to original sources, documents, journals, records and so on.  Sometimes what they discover is very difficult to come to terms with and remain active.   I know we are told to choose to believe and stay active, but when someone's belief is shaken or shattered, it's difficult to do that.  I think there's nothing wrong with using all kinds of support available when searching for the truth.  What needs to be remembered is to find the sources yourself, study them, pray about them and then come to your own conclusions.  It's the conclusions of others that may lead you astray.  But let's not be afraid of members searching for the truth and looking for others who are doing the same.

The source I am speaking of is the Holy Spirit. We find a measure of satisfaction and solace in reading various sources as we struggle with various issues, but how does one know which is reliable? In the end, I think the only real and lasting answer in dealing with any faith crisis...death, betrayal, sin, coming across unexpected information, offenses, abuse, whatever....is communion with the Spirit and following it’s direction.