"Faith Crisis" support group?

[changed]

So... as I am going through this thing, seems like there are a lot of good support groups out there - addiction support group, spouse of addicts support groups, singles groups/ward, there are mothers groups, and etc. etc. etc. LGBT support group?  there should be.

Every ward has inactive members - how many inactives went through or are going through a faith crisis do you think?

The only resources I have found for someone going through a crisis are anti-resources.  I know about StayLDS but I don't want a forum, I want a face-2-face support group.

What do you think of the idea?  If it magically became a new church program or something, would you be excited about it?  What would it look like?  Would it be well attended?  How to encourage people to attend?  Good idea?  I should tell my bishop he has to create on or I am leaving? haha - bad idea?

Edited June 26, 2018 by changed

[hope_for_things]

2 minutes ago, changed said:

So... as I am going through this thing, seems like there are a lot of good support groups out there - addiction support group, spouse of addicts support groups, singles groups/ward, there are mothers groups, and etc. etc. etc. LGBT support group?  there should be.

Every ward has inactive members - how many inactives went through or are going through a faith crisis do you think?

The only resources I have found for someone going through a crisis are anti-resources.  I know about StayLDS but I don't want a forum, I want a face-2-face support group.

What do you think of the idea?  If it magically became a new church program or something, would you be excited about it?  What would it look like?  Would it be well attended?  How to encourage people to attend?  Good idea?  I should tell my bishop he has to create on or I am leaving? haha - bad idea?

The A Thoughful Faith is a good support group, online, but they have get togethers as well.  Sunstone and other symposia and conferences are support for people with a wide variety of orientations towards the church.  There are many different groups listed on this web site for people all over the spectrum of belief.  

https://www.mormonspectrum.org/

Also, for me personally, it really helped when I found people in my extended family and friends who I could talk to about my faith journey.  Having a real interaction in person or over the phone is so much more meaningful than just online.  Online has its place, but we crave and need that more personal interaction.  

If you would like to chat over the phone, message me and I'd be happy to talk, no judgment, I have no agendas for or against the church.  

Unfortunately, this lacking of local support is a major problem.  I've had chats with multiple bishops and stake presidents asking for help, making suggestions on possible support mechanisms, and even volunteering to lead these efforts for those struggling with faith crisis, unfortunately without much success in my area.  I agree with you that there are likely people in every ward and stake who are struggling in silence.  Its sad...  

[HappyJackWagon]

2 minutes ago, changed said:

So... as I am going through this thing, seems like there are a lot of good support groups out there - addiction support group, spouse of addicts support groups, singles groups/ward, there are mothers groups, and etc. etc. etc. LGBT support group?  there should be.

Every ward has inactive members - how many inactives went through or are going through a faith crisis do you think?

The only resources I have found for someone going through a crisis are anti-resources.  I know about StayLDS but I don't want a forum, I want a face-2-face support group.

What do you think of the idea?  If it magically became a new church program or something, would you be excited about it?  What would it look like?  Would it be well attended?  How to encourage people to attend?  Good idea?  I should tell my bishop he has to create on or I am leaving? haha - bad idea?

Interesting question about a face to face group. I don't really know how successful it would/could be. People experiencing a faith crisis are typically devouring information and looking for answers. I don't know that the church is equipped to provide answers to the questions. I don't mean that to be disparaging, just a reality. I've had enough interactions with bishops and stake presidents who don't know how to address the issues (or are even aware of the issues) and/or provide useful answers, that I don't think there would be much success. There is also a stigma associated with  support groups in general but I think it would be even worse for people struggling with faith. I think in many ways people have an easier time admitting to an addiction than they are a loss of faith because that is the foundation for the entire church community.

I wouldn't discount online groups. They can be very helpful for many people. A group like A Thoughtful Faith on facebook is supportive and they vet new members to make sure they have an understanding of the challenging issues and the church essays before they're admitted to the group, so no one (in theory) is being blindsided with all of that new information.

[CA Steve]

I would expect that the response to this by anyone in a position of authority would be that the church itself is designed as a faith crisis support group.

[Tacenda]

26 minutes ago, changed said:

So... as I am going through this thing, seems like there are a lot of good support groups out there - addiction support group, spouse of addicts support groups, singles groups/ward, there are mothers groups, and etc. etc. etc. LGBT support group?  there should be.

Every ward has inactive members - how many inactives went through or are going through a faith crisis do you think?

The only resources I have found for someone going through a crisis are anti-resources.  I know about StayLDS but I don't want a forum, I want a face-2-face support group.

What do you think of the idea?  If it magically became a new church program or something, would you be excited about it?  What would it look like?  Would it be well attended?  How to encourage people to attend?  Good idea?  I should tell my bishop he has to create on or I am leaving? haha - bad idea?

I think it could help a lot of people stay in the church. I needed someone to talk to about my crisis, and ended up going to StayLDS.com. It was okay. Then I tried NewOrderMormon, and it was okay because it led me to be able to talk face to face to someone nearby in my hometown. I would have loved something in the church for this. I had not a soul I dared talk to. Because it might open the door for them to go into a crisis as well. But if we had some LDS that were aware of the situation and could help, why not?

It's the hardest thing I've ever had to go through in my life. People of faith, that have never experienced probably won't understand. So maybe someone that's been there done that? 

If you are in my area I would love to meet and talk! PM me if that works. 

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by Tacenda

[Calm]

I see a problem in that many in a faith crisis in my experience feel the need to voice complaints and only complaints about the Church at least for a time.  I think there would be a concern that such groups would cause increased focus on negatives rather than helping resolve questions if the majority of the group were in a negative phrase.

[Guest]

There are so many reasons a person my become inactive, and probably most don't have to do with Faith, or loss of Faith issues. Because of this few if any may attend.  

[Tacenda]

My niece on my husband's side posted this website on FB, she's TBM. She mainly posted something about not judging each other, and how this is a big turn off and why members quit coming to church. But as I looked at the website I saw something about those that are in a faith crisis needing some help. YAY! http://www.listenlearnandlove.org/faith-challenges

This is the main page...http://www.listenlearnandlove.org/ It looks to be a support for the LGBTQ crowd as well. So much on here, that about covers the gamut!

[changed]

3 hours ago, CA Steve said:

I would expect that the response to this by anyone in a position of authority would be that the church itself is designed as a faith crisis support group.

 

The ability to share actual concerns, and talk through real issues is not really there at the traditional mtgs... 

[changed]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

I see a problem in that many in a faith crisis in my experience feel the need to voice complaints and only complaints about the Church at least for a time.  I think there would be a concern that such groups would cause increased focus on negatives rather than helping resolve questions if the majority of the group were in a negative phrase.

There are anti-support groups out there that mirror this for sure - there is tons of support for people who want to leave the church, and not as much support for those tinkering on the edge of almost wanting to stay... 

Yes - it would have to have some spiritually redeeming quality to it - perhaps something a little alternative, meditation, or sharing anything uplifting - not necessarily from the traditional scriptures -  just anything.  The point being to get your mind in a happy place, non-resentful, free to believe what you are able to believe kind of a place.

Edited June 27, 2018 by changed

[changed]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I think it could help a lot of people stay in the church. I needed someone to talk to about my crisis, and ended up going to StayLDS.com. It was okay. Then I tried NewOrderMormon, and it was okay because it led me to be able to talk face to face to someone nearby in my hometown. I would have loved something in the church for this. I had not a soul I dared talk to. Because it might open the door for them to go into a crisis as well. But if we had some LDS that were aware of the situation and could help, why not?

It's the hardest thing I've ever had to go through in my life. People of faith, that have never experienced probably won't understand. So maybe someone that's been there done that? 

If you are in my area I would love to meet and talk! PM me if that works. 

 

 

I tried NOM too.  

I'm not from Utah

[The Nehor]

For all the good this would do I think it would do more bad.

It would be a magnet to anti's coming to "get support" when really they want to share their latest doubts in excruciating detail and any attempt to shut them down for going too far would trigger a backlash about how their "concerns are being dismissed" or whatever.

There would be a tendency for those in this group to feed off each other's negativity even if no one is "infiltrating". Everyone will air their concerns. It is not like alcoholism where everyone at AA realizes it is a problem they want to overcome and people rarely leave the meeting with more reasons they should drink. You can't say the same about someone going on about their problem's with Joseph's polygamy or the translation of the Book of Abraham or one person's problems with their bishop.

[changed]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

For all the good this would do I think it would do more bad.

It would be a magnet to anti's coming to "get support" when really they want to share their latest doubts in excruciating detail and any attempt to shut them down for going too far would trigger a backlash about how their "concerns are being dismissed" or whatever.

There would be a tendency for those in this group to feed off each other's negativity even if no one is "infiltrating". Everyone will air their concerns. It is not like alcoholism where everyone at AA realizes it is a problem they want to overcome and people rarely leave the meeting with more reasons they should drink. You can't say the same about someone going on about their problem's with Joseph's polygamy or the translation of the Book of Abraham or one person's problems with their bishop.

 

There could be rules - like some 50/50 rule, something good for something bad.  

I just need a happy middle-ground.  I cannot support a few things in the church (will not go into detail), but there are other things I very much support.  It feels like it's an "all or nothing" kind of deal for a lot of people, being a cafeteria Mormon is very much looked down on - but I think cafeteria is better than nothing or anti.  It would be nice to find a group that allows freedom of thought in a positive atmosphere - to support spirituality without having to get strict on the doctrines of everything.  

.. sounds like I need to just go to the local non-denominational church... 

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, changed said:

 

There could be rules - like some 50/50 rule, something good for something bad.  

I just need a happy middle-ground.  I cannot support a few things in the church (will not go into detail), but there are other things I very much support.  It feels like it's an "all or nothing" kind of deal for a lot of people, being a cafeteria Mormon is very much looked down on - but I think cafeteria is better than nothing or anti.  It would be nice to find a group that allows freedom of thought in a positive atmosphere - to support spirituality without having to get strict on the doctrines of everything.  

.. sounds like I need to just go to the local non-denominational church... 

The Church welcomes those who are "halfway in" but we do not laud or recommend their approach to the gospel or see it as an equally viable alternative to faithful devotion. Your post here does not suggest you are looking to come to full faith in the gospel. I just see such a group as an invitation to many to normalize that approach. People can form such groups but the Church is unlikely to sponsor or organize them.

[changed]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The Church welcomes those who are "halfway in" but we do not laud or recommend their approach to the gospel or see it as an equally viable alternative to faithful devotion. Your post here does not suggest you are looking to come to full faith in the gospel. I just see such a group as an invitation to many to normalize that approach. People can form such groups but the Church is unlikely to sponsor or organize them.

 

I'm not sure that the church does welcome "half in".  I will always be "half-in" for any human imperfect organization.  Faith in a church, vs. faith in G-d - those are two very different things.

I am fully devoted to principles of love / kindness / honesty / health / education & knowledge, and have had experiences that have convinced me death is not the end.

I "hope" that some spirit might be a benevolent G-d, that the end will justify the means, and somehow all tears will be wiped away.  There are some beautiful things in the christian scriptures to hope for, but I will be a doubting Thomas until I have spiritual confirmation on those.  ... was doubting Thomas so horrible?  He was an apostle after all.  If I get confirmation, great - otherwise, I'll be an honest agnostic.

I will not embrace anything that is intolerant, unkind, places anyone in harms way, that places a middle-man between anyone and their spiritual exploration... it is the "trust in the arm of flesh" doctrines that bother me the most.

[changed]

6 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

There are so many reasons a person my become inactive, and probably most don't have to do with Faith, or loss of Faith issues. Because of this few if any may attend.  

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/08/24/why-americas-nones-left-religion-behind/

...are opposed to organized religion (22%) 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/06/more-americans-now-say-theyre-spiritual-but-not-religious/

About a quarter of U.S. adults (27%) now say they think of themselves as spiritual but not religious

interesting.

Those "opposed to organized religion" might like Mormonism as most of the local leaders are volunteers and not paid - which makes it feel a little less "organized".  

Would the church welcome those who are "spiritual but not religious"?  

Edited June 27, 2018 by changed

[The Nehor]

11 hours ago, changed said:

 

I'm not sure that the church does welcome "half in".  I will always be "half-in" for any human imperfect organization.  Faith in a church, vs. faith in G-d - those are two very different things.

I am fully devoted to principles of love / kindness / honesty / health / education & knowledge, and have had experiences that have convinced me death is not the end.

I "hope" that some spirit might be a benevolent G-d, that the end will justify the means, and somehow all tears will be wiped away.  There are some beautiful things in the christian scriptures to hope for, but I will be a doubting Thomas until I have spiritual confirmation on those.  ... was doubting Thomas so horrible?  He was an apostle after all.  If I get confirmation, great - otherwise, I'll be an honest agnostic.

I will not embrace anything that is intolerant, unkind, places anyone in harms way, that places a middle-man between anyone and their spiritual exploration... it is the "trust in the arm of flesh" doctrines that bother me the most.

Faith in a church and faith in God are different things but hoping there might be a benevolent spirit God......do you have either? My faith is not vested in a church. It is vested in Christ and because of that faith I trust in his Priesthood and its keys.

It is ironic to me that those who claim doubts and being unsure often demand an end to an intermediary. It would seem they would be the ones who need it most. Meanwhile those in the LDS faith afire with a testimony of the gospel receiving revelation honor the mantle of the apostles and listen intently to what they have to say. It would seem they would be the ones who need it less.

Edited June 27, 2018 by The Nehor

[CV75]

15 hours ago, changed said:

So... as I am going through this thing, seems like there are a lot of good support groups out there - addiction support group, spouse of addicts support groups, singles groups/ward, there are mothers groups, and etc. etc. etc. LGBT support group?  there should be.

Every ward has inactive members - how many inactives went through or are going through a faith crisis do you think?

The only resources I have found for someone going through a crisis are anti-resources.  I know about StayLDS but I don't want a forum, I want a face-2-face support group.

What do you think of the idea?  If it magically became a new church program or something, would you be excited about it?  What would it look like?  Would it be well attended?  How to encourage people to attend?  Good idea?  I should tell my bishop he has to create on or I am leaving? haha - bad idea?

Just a few random thoughts that come to mind:

There is definitely power in groups, and it is important that the members of it have a untied purpose in order to leverage this power.

While not an addiction per se, I would think a person having a faith crisis would find great benefit in applying the same principles of the Atonement as those used in the addiction recovery and support programs. But because faith is so personal, the steps in these programs start on a very intimate scale and then branch out and broaden to bring more people into the healing process.

With that in mind, I think starting "small" with your bishop or your ministering sister or brother will probably help ease the burden and clarify your purpose. The Spirit will help you trust who can bring in to your support network, and help you obtain any faith breakthroughs they have.

[CA Steve]

11 hours ago, changed said:

 

The ability to share actual concerns, and talk through real issues is not really there at the traditional mtgs... 

I agree with you but I was referring to you asking about "a new church   program". I do not believe the church would start up such a program on a church wide basis for a variety of reasons. The system is designed for such people to go to their leadership for help on an individual basis. I suspect that same leadership would not be comfortable with groups of doubters getting together to discuss their problems. The church isn't even comfortable with groups of people forming outside scripture study groups.  In the case of groups of people with doubts, such discussions would probably have just as great of chance of leading people out of the church as they would back in. 

[SouthernMo]

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It is ironic to me that those who claim doubts and being unsure that demand an end to an intermediary.

This is a noteworthy observation. I’d never thought about that.

One of the possible explanation for that phenomenon is that those of us who claim doubts have been let down or left unfulfilled by the church (intermediary), and are looking for a new path that might give us what we are seeking for. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by SouthernMo
Rephrased my observation to make more sense with what I meant.

[RevTestament]

17 hours ago, changed said:

So... as I am going through this thing, seems like there are a lot of good support groups out there - addiction support group, spouse of addicts support groups, singles groups/ward, there are mothers groups, and etc. etc. etc. LGBT support group?  there should be.

Every ward has inactive members - how many inactives went through or are going through a faith crisis do you think?

The only resources I have found for someone going through a crisis are anti-resources.  I know about StayLDS but I don't want a forum, I want a face-2-face support group.

What do you think of the idea?  If it magically became a new church program or something, would you be excited about it?  What would it look like?  Would it be well attended?  How to encourage people to attend?  Good idea?  I should tell my bishop he has to create on or I am leaving? haha - bad idea?

 

13 hours ago, changed said:

The ability to share actual concerns, and talk through real issues is not really there at the traditional mtgs... 

This is true. The Church frowns on discussing issues outside of the lessons, Archaeology, etc. 

The Church has also frowned on outside study groups probably for many of the same reasons. I have an inquisitive mind, which is always asking and searching for answers. To me the Church is all about having an open mind and learning from the best sources until one becomes a member, and then it seems the dialogue of members changes to not reading that "anti-material." I have read a lot of it, because I am interested in addressing it, and diffusing it. A typical example would be the CES Letter.

How many inactives have gone through a faith crisis? My guess is a lot of them, if not most of them to some extent. I remember a story of someone on Beliefnet who was investigating the Church and heard a voice say "It is true. It is true." He was attracted to the teachings of the Church, ie the restored gospel, and this was the straw that pushed him into the Church. He was happily in the Church for awhile, but began to learn about some issues which he had not known when he joined, and he began to doubt the Church. He eventually left, and was posting against the Church in the Beliefnet forums. 

I am personally of the opinion that if there were archaeology sites which people could see actually supported the Book of Mormon, that would do much to alleviate the concerns of those who choose to leave the Church or go inactive. Then they would feel Joseph was not just making it up. 

I believe this day was foreseen when the faith of members would wane. 

8 While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that the Church does not know prophecy when they see it, and has interpreted a good number of things incorrectly. This news is not welcome by the Church because it casts doubt on the Church leadership. Yet, they themselves say the Lord will not allow them to lead the Church astray. Of course they do not envision an "outsider" as being the one to correct them. Anyone who they perceive as correcting them seems to get labeled as "ark steadiers" in a condescending manner, which I find quite ironic since it refers to this very scripture which indicates the ark needs steadying, but will not be easily steadied. 

I have said on this very forum I will not teach false doctrine. Despite several early doctrines being repudiated by the Church (ie, Adam-god, blood atonement, etc)  the Church continues to take a hard stand on those who do not see eye to eye with traditional teachings. While these issues may not be the issues which have disturbed your apple cart, they are issues which bug me - for instance Eden in America. Some view these issues as almost quaint - giving the Church a "different feel." I, however, believe them to be damaging to the Church.

What I am telling you is I strongly doubt you will ever see some kind of officially sanctioned faith crisis support group. The Church is still in the stage where it believes "when the prophet[president] has spoken, the thinking is done." It expects members to simply follow what has been taught without "thinking." Thus, my type of questioning is not welcome. It is perceived as disturbing the apple cart, and raising questions can cause doubts which are seen as the work of the devil. 

When a hierarchy espouses truth, it is a powerful thing, but there has never been a hierarchy which has continually espoused truth. By its own admission this includes our current Church hierarchy, which has itself denounced certain early Church teachings. This is troubling to some. Strangely, to me it brings hope. Hope for change - that the Church will eventually realize more things it has incorrectly taught - like physical sacrifice has been done away - and will show more patience with those who have written about such issues. 

While my guess is such issues are not what trouble you, I bring them up as examples, and to let you know that one can have such beliefs and yet be active in the Church. I also want to let you know that you are free to discuss your issues in forums such as this one, although that is not what you seek. I am probably not going to provide satisfying answers on issues like polygamy. My spiel on this issue is if you don't like polygamy, just say no. Contrary to early rhetoric it is not a commandment, nor is temporal polygamy necessary for exaltation. Just another area where the Church was wrong. If you can live with Church leaders being wrong despite their rhetoric, and still love the restored gospel and the scriptures, that should help relieve internal stress. On more modern issues such as LGBTQ, I don't see the Church changing much more. I personally do not like the November policy, but i suppose the Church has seen youth struggle with their parents when choosing to join the Church, and doesn't wish to be a part of that struggle. However, I think Christ foresaw such difficulties when He taught that His sword of truth would divide father and child. I have not been persuaded that the parent's permission is not sufficient in these cases.

Edited June 27, 2018 by RevTestament

[Tacenda]

10 hours ago, changed said:

 

I'm not sure that the church does welcome "half in".  I will always be "half-in" for any human imperfect organization.  Faith in a church, vs. faith in G-d - those are two very different things.

I am fully devoted to principles of love / kindness / honesty / health / education & knowledge, and have had experiences that have convinced me death is not the end.

I "hope" that some spirit might be a benevolent G-d, that the end will justify the means, and somehow all tears will be wiped away.  There are some beautiful things in the christian scriptures to hope for, but I will be a doubting Thomas until I have spiritual confirmation on those.  ... was doubting Thomas so horrible?  He was an apostle after all.  If I get confirmation, great - otherwise, I'll be an honest agnostic.

I will not embrace anything that is intolerant, unkind, places anyone in harms way, that places a middle-man between anyone and their spiritual exploration... it is the "trust in the arm of flesh" doctrines that bother me the most.

Wow, these are my feelings to a tee! Middlewayer isn't all that bad IMO!

[Tacenda]

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Faith in a church and faith in God are different things but hoping there might be a benevolent spirit God......do you have either? My faith is not vested in a church. It is vested in Christ and because of that faith I trust in his Priesthood and its keys.

It is ironic to me that those who claim doubts and being unsure that demand an end to an intermediary. It would seem they would be the ones who need it most. Meanwhile those in the LDS faith afire with a testimony of the gospel receiving revelation honor the mantle of the apostles and listen intently to what they have to say. It would seem they would be the ones who need it less.

If the past is a truth indicator, it spells out that the apostles have shown to be wrong on a few, or many occasions. No middle man for me, no thanks.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

If the past is a truth indicator, it spells out that the apostles have shown to be wrong on a few, or many occasions. No middle man for me, no thanks.

Then the question becomes are they more often wrong then the person making that statement? I find the messengers are better at revelation then I am and are more likely to be right. Plus I have the assurance that they will not lead me to hell and that God stands with them despite their occasional errors.

Is the average John or Jane Doe doubter so good at receiving clear revelation that they can safely dispense with Apostles as they are a superior source of truth?

A physicist once made a mistake so I am not going to trust any of them. I will just figure out the laws of physics on my own (math is easy) while I build a starship to fly to Kolob. I am sure it will turn out fine.

Edited June 27, 2018 by The Nehor

[SouthernMo]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Plus I have the assurance that they will not lead me to hell 

This is key.

Where did you get this assurance?