Conference Announcements--Gender Equity Implications

[Stormin' Mormon]

A couple of big announcements this weekend carry some gender equity implications.  I'm curious if y'all think these implications will have more than a negligible impact on gender equity issues in the Church.

First:  With the consolidation of Melchizedek Priesthood quorums, the Relief Society presidency is now more analogous to the Elder's Quorum presidency.  Both have stewardship over half of the adult population of the ward, and both are a single voice in ward councils.  Prior to this, stewardship over adult males was divided between two quorums, each with its own voice in council. 

Second:  The new ministry program is a single unified program, for both men and women.  There is no longer a separate program for the men (Home Teaching) and the women (Visiting Teaching).  All participate together in the ministry.

Third:  Inviting the young women to participate in the ministry program narrows the differences between the young men and young women programs.  Both now have responsibilities to minister. 

Obviously, these changes do not erase all the gender differences in the Church, but it does lessen some of them.  Not being a woman, I really can't say whether this lessening is even worth mentioning, let alone discussing.

[JAHS]

I'm pretty sure gender equity was not the reason for the changes, but it does seems to make things a little more equal. 
I don't think most people will look at it that way though. It's just a change to better minister to the ward members. 

[Stormin' Mormon]

I didn't think it was the reason for the changes, just a beneficial side effect.

[bluebell]

I think it's awesome.  Though it has been funny to listen to some of the men complaining about how hard it's going to be to combine the older/younger experienced/less experienced men together.  Women have been doing it since the beginning so hopefully the men can manage.  

[filovirus]

25 minutes ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

First:  With the consolidation of Melchizedek Priesthood quorums, the Relief Society presidency is now more analogous to the Elder's Quorum presidency.  Both have stewardship over half of the adult population of the ward, and both are a single voice in ward councils.  Prior to this, stewardship over adult males was divided between two quorums, each with its own voice in council.

Both did not have stewardship over half the adult population. The RS had stewardship over adult women. The quorums had stewardship over the entirety of the congregation, including the adult women.

[Prof]

I'm with JAHS on this. I don't think gender equality was the motivation for these changes. It may not really have been considered at all. I think they were just looking for a better way to do things.

I would say that it is good to see the young women involved. That is a resource that I'm not sure we have employed to its fullest.

[bluebell]

26 minutes ago, filovirus said:

Both did not have stewardship over half the adult population. The RS had stewardship over adult women. The quorums had stewardship over the entirety of the congregation, including the adult women.

Where does it say that elders quorum has stewardship over the women?  

As a woman I have never had to deal with the elders quorum in any capacity. The elders quorum presidency has no authority over me either. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by bluebell

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Where does it say that elders quorum has stewardship over the women?  

As a woman I have never had to deal with the elders quorum in any capacity. The elders quorum presidency has no authority over me either. 

Sisters often have home teachers visit especially when they are indigent.  They help out with household jobs etc. They visit with widows and watch over them, visit them in nursing homes. etc.  Elders quorums often help people move, etc especially sisters who are unmarried.

Widows are often visited by priesthood.   I hear that President Monson did that occasionally

The church welfare program is administered by the bishop as often assisted by the EQP.

You are blessed to have never needed this assistance 

Edited April 3, 2018 by mfbukowski

[Calm]

And the RS is known to help families that have no mothers, at least in the many wards I have been in.  And single men were sure to be included in any service project if there was a need there.

In the Primary Presidency, we would talk about providing support for families with children in them.  And we would talk about how the children could help serve families with no children in the home, as in seniors.  I assume the YM and YW do the same.  I don't think you can split the ward in half and say this presidency has stewardship over these individuals and no others.

The ward, imo, is like one big family, responsibilities are shared by many, overseen by the Bishop and the RS President, who in the best functioning wards I have seen, work together well as a team.  This is not to say the RS Pres shares all the keys with the Bishop or that each spends much of their time looking over the other's shoulder telling them what to do.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Calm

[Storm Rider]

As my eyes roll back in my head thinking about the fact that we actually have people that seek out ways to create gender equality. It is as if the race is on to destroy anything that could possibly, remotely distinguish between male and female.  God forbid that there is a difference.  Then, at the end of the creation of "equality" we can all be the same.  We get to be consumers and producers in an economy that is totally equal and happy as long as we consume.  We grow the babies in test tubes so no one dares to find a dissimilarity between male and female. No need for families because families are sexist!  Yup, a paradise is what we are creating.  Let's go fast into this better world that humans will create.  

Go Spot go. See Jane and **** ( Richard, then) run. They run the same speed.  Jane and **** are equal.  If one goes faster than the other they will be hammered into submission.  We rejoice in equality. We teach equality.  We preach equality.  All hail to equality.  Stamp all inequality.  

Yeah, boy will this be a swell ride as long as every one is blind and never questions anything in the great pursuit of equality.  

Edited April 3, 2018 by Storm Rider

[Calm]

Yeah, not really what I have seen discussed when it comes to equality though there may be some factions that promote that.

Equality is more often promoted in my experience as removing unnecessary burdens from women or minority ethnic groups that prevent them from running as fast as they can, not trying to slow down anyone else.  They want to fulfill their own potential, not hamper anyone else.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Calm

[rockpond]

2 hours ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

A couple of big announcements this weekend carry some gender equity implications.  I'm curious if y'all think these implications will have more than a negligible impact on gender equity issues in the Church.

First:  With the consolidation of Melchizedek Priesthood quorums, the Relief Society presidency is now more analogous to the Elder's Quorum presidency.  Both have stewardship over half of the adult population of the ward, and both are a single voice in ward councils.  Prior to this, stewardship over adult males was divided between two quorums, each with its own voice in council. 

Second:  The new ministry program is a single unified program, for both men and women.  There is no longer a separate program for the men (Home Teaching) and the women (Visiting Teaching).  All participate together in the ministry.

Third:  Inviting the young women to participate in the ministry program narrows the differences between the young men and young women programs.  Both now have responsibilities to minister. 

Obviously, these changes do not erase all the gender differences in the Church, but it does lessen some of them.  Not being a woman, I really can't say whether this lessening is even worth mentioning, let alone discussing.

Consolidation of MP will help balance (by a little) the gender gap in ward council.  I think that will be a good thing.

I will be waiting to see what happens with how the ministering program is administered.  LDS Tools pushed a new release today which shows "Ministering Brothers" and "Ministering Sisters" in place of Home Teachers and Visiting Teachers.  So, I wonder if administering the ministering program will become a joint effort between RSP and EQP or if it will still function as two separate programs.  I'd love to see it become a joint effort.

I believe that inviting the YW 14+ to participate in the ministering program is a move to create more gender equity.  From the age of 8, my daughter has been asking why she won't get to do visits with Mom, like her brothers do visits with Dad.

[Calm]

"believe that inviting the YW 14+ to participate in the ministering program is a move to create more gender equity."

I think it is less about gender equality and more about filling a need for Young Women to be integrated into the ward and their gender's ward organization.  It has been a useful practice that helped the Young Men move from youth to adult association.  Makes sense to use a tried and true program for the Young Women who have been struggling at times to know what their role in the ward family is (see Sister Oscarson's talk https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2018/04/media/session_2_talk_8/5761570154001?lang=eng )

Most Young Women I know could care less about doing the same thing Young Men do on a long term basis unless they can be shown there is a reason for the YW to start doing it.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Calm

[rockpond]

12 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

As my eyes roll back in my head thinking about the fact that we actually have people that seek out ways to create gender equality. It is as if the race is on to destroy anything that could possibly, remotely distinguish between male and female.  God forbid that there is a difference.  Then, at the end of the creation of "equality" we can all be the same.  We get to be consumers and producers in an economy that is totally equal and happy as long as we consume.  We grow the babies in test tubes so no one dares to find a dissimilarity between male and female. No need for families because families are sexist!  Yup, a paradise is what we are creating.  Let's go fast into this better world that humans will create.  

Go Spot go. See Jane and **** run. They run the same speed.  Jane and **** are equal.  If one goes faster than the other they will be hammered into submission.  We rejoice in equality. We teach equality.  We preach equality.  All hail to equality.  Stamp all inequality.  

Yeah, boy will this be a well ride as long as every one is blind and never questions anything in the great pursuit of equality.  

I can't say that my opinion was all that different from yours until my 8 year old daughter started to ask why God favored the boys.  I don't think the pursuit of equality for equality's sake is needed.  But there are good reasons to pursue equality.

[rockpond]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

"believe that inviting the YW 14+ to participate in the ministering program is a move to create more gender equity."

I think it is less about gender equality and more about filling a need for Young Women to be integrated into the ward and their gender's ward organization.  It has been a useful practice that helped the Young Men move from youth to adult association.  Makes sense to use a tried and true program for the Young Women who have been struggling at times to know what their role in the ward family is (see Sister Oscarson's talk https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2018/04/media/session_2_talk_8/5761570154001?lang=eng )

Most Young Women I know could care less about doing the same thing Young Men do unless they can be shown there is a reason for the YW to start doing it.

Regarding the part that I put in bold -- I see this as the increased gender equity to which I referred.

As I mentioned above in response to Storm Rider:  Equity for equity's sake isn't a good pursuit.  But seeking equity because our girls and young women need to feel that the value of their contributions and because women's voices in our councils make us all better, is a good pursuit.

I guess it's all in the perspective.

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

Both have stewardship over half of the adult population of the ward, and both are a single voice in ward councils.  Prior to this, stewardship over adult males was divided between two quorums, each with its own voice in council. 

Well, the HP group leader always struggled to keep his dentures in place, so he was usually silent during ward council.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, rockpond said:

So, I wonder if administering the ministering program will become a joint effort between RSP and EQP or if it will still function as two separate programs.

There will need to be administrators to administrate the various ministers in their ministries. 

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Sisters often have home teachers visit especially when they are indigent.  They help out with household jobs etc. They visit with widows and watch over them, visit them in nursing homes. etc.  Elders quorums often help people move, etc especially sisters who are unmarried.

Widows are often visited by priesthood.   I hear that President Monson did that occasionally

The church welfare program is administered by the bishop as often assisted by the EQP.

You are blessed to have never needed this assistance 

Of course I have experience with those types of service (though I’ve never know an EQP to be involved with dispensing ward welfare. I’ve only ever had RS president being in charge of that under authority of the bishop—including when I was a RS president). I am so thankful for the men of the church.

But none of that means that I fall under the stewardship of the EQ. When the RS takes a meal in to a man or otherwise serves him, it doesn’t mean he is under their stewardship either.

[Duncan]

One thing we try to stress in our ward and i'm sure others do as well, if you see a service opportunity, then fill it if you can. You don't need permission from anybody to be nice to someone, or to help them out. I've often thought the less the Bishop has to worry about the better

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, rockpond said:

Consolidation of MP will help balance (by a little) the gender gap in ward council.  I think that will be a good thing.

I will be waiting to see what happens with how the ministering program is administered.  LDS Tools pushed a new release today which shows "Ministering Brothers" and "Ministering Sisters" in place of Home Teachers and Visiting Teachers.  So, I wonder if administering the ministering program will become a joint effort between RSP and EQP or if it will still function as two separate programs.  I'd love to see it become a joint effort.

I believe that inviting the YW 14+ to participate in the ministering program is a move to create more gender equity.  From the age of 8, my daughter has been asking why she won't get to do visits with Mom, like her brothers do visits with Dad.

The latest message I guess to leadership shows an equal effort.  

The biggest changes I see are frequent what used to be called "PPI's" - personal interviews by bishops, EQ and RS presidents to get reports from the ministering bros and sisters on the welfare of those assigned to them to visit.  No more monthly visits- but visits as required.

If a husband and wife are assigned to a family, the interview might come through the Bishop or EQ pres, or the RS president- that is my understanding since the interview can be between the leader and either member of the ministering couple.

[sunstoned]

5 hours ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

I didn't think it was the reason for the changes, just a beneficial side effect.

I am not so sure.  This could be seen as a significant step toward gender equity for the reasons list up thread.  This could be part of a 5 or 10 year plan.  

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

There will need to be administrators to administrate the various ministers in their ministries. 

I don't think that is a problem we call them "supervisors" now

The tough part will be the interviews with each companionship quarterly

[mfbukowski]

1 minute ago, sunstoned said:

I am not so sure.  This could be seen as a significant step toward gender equity for the reasons list up thread.  This could be part of a 5 or 10 year plan.  

At least that belief could tone down some of the rhetoric. 

[sunstoned]

2 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

At least that belief could tone down some of the rhetoric. 

I generally feel that the change is good.  The concept of "ministering" could be seen as more inclusive than "teaching".  I know that this is just semantics, but perception is a powerful thing.

[mfbukowski]

50 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Of course I have experience with those types of service (though I’ve never know an EQP to be involved with dispensing ward welfare. I’ve only ever had RS president being in charge of that under authority of the bishop—including when I was a RS president). I am so thankful for the men of the church.

But none of that means that I fall under the stewardship of the EQ. When the RS takes a meal in to a man or otherwise serves him, it doesn’t mean he is under their stewardship either.

Disagree.