rockpond Posted August 11, 2017 Author Posted August 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, The Nehor said: It amazes me how easily some people are led away like this. I almost wish I had no conscience and was okay with eternal hellfire. Then I could make a much more appealing (and profitable) break off from the LDS church. Have you read his books or listened to him?
The Nehor Posted August 11, 2017 Posted August 11, 2017 Just now, rockpond said: Have you read his books or listened to him? I have listened to some of his stuff. Not impressed.
mnn727 Posted August 11, 2017 Posted August 11, 2017 Not living in Mormon Central, I always find it funny how much credence people put in someone like Snuffer (or name your favorite anti or former LDS). Nobody even cares in the rest of the world. Mormons are barely a blip on anyones radar outside of Mormon Central and anti's or former with a grudge have never been heard of. My belief is that you have too many 'cultural Mormons' in Mormon central that blow to and fro with every little rumor. 3
Popular Post rongo Posted August 11, 2017 Popular Post Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, mnn727 said: Not living in Mormon Central, I always find it funny how much credence people put in someone like Snuffer (or name your favorite anti or former LDS). Nobody even cares in the rest of the world. Mormons are barely a blip on anyones radar outside of Mormon Central and anti's or former with a grudge have never been heard of. The story of the little boy on the beach with the starfish. "It mattered to that one." It matters a great deal to someone living in the mission field who finds his teachings about the Church apostatizing and its authority being transferred to Snuffer to be appealing. Regardless of whether or not "nobody even cares . . . Mormons are barely a blip on anyone's radar outside of Mormon Central." There are LDS everywhere (not just in Mormon Central) who are drawn into Snuffer's net, and it matters to them --- and their families and leaders. It's an issue, when it's an issue in your backyard. Regardless of how many other backyards don't have that issue. Edited August 11, 2017 by rongo 9
rockpond Posted August 11, 2017 Author Posted August 11, 2017 24 minutes ago, rongo said: The story of the little boy on the beach with the starfish. "It mattered to that one." It matters a great deal to someone living in the mission field who finds his teachings about the Church apostatizing and its authority being transferred to Snuffer to be appealing. Regardless of whether or not "nobody even cares . . . Mormons are barely a blip on anyone's radar outside of Mormon Central." There are LDS everywhere (not just in Mormon Central) who are drawn into Snuffer's net, and it matters to them --- and their families and leaders. It's an issue, when it's an issue in your backyard. Regardless of how many other backyards don't have that issue. Well said. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted August 11, 2017 Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: Is this "Denver Snuffer" a real name? 1 hour ago, Duncan said: No, I think it's a pseuodonym, his real name is Machine Gun Mcgillicutty Is he this guy? https://www.amazon.com/Mafia-Mormon-My-Conversion-Story/dp/1555177948 Probably not. McGillicutty is an Irish name. P.S. "Denver Snuffer" could be the name Machine Gun McGillicutty assumed in Witness Protection after turning state's evidence against the Mob. Edited August 11, 2017 by Kenngo1969 1
Duncan Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Is he this guy? https://www.amazon.com/Mafia-Mormon-My-Conversion-Story/dp/1555177948 Probably not. McGillicutty is an Irish name. P.S. "Denver Snuffer" could be the name Machine Gun McGillicutty assumed in Witness Protection after turning state's evidence against the Mob. I have a story about guns, a member of the Church and State's evidence but maybe some other time
cdowis Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Duncan said: I can possibly see stake numbers wise going away but say the Salt Lake Bubblegum South Stake going into total apostasy seems a bit much to swallow I heard third-hand that they assign home teachers according to which "flavor" they belong. Sacarament attendance is also kept separately. Statistics show that Snuffy is quickly gaining in members and activity. But that is just rumour.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 1 hour ago, mnn727 said: Not living in Mormon Central, I always find it funny how much credence people put in someone like Snuffer (or name your favorite anti or former LDS). Nobody even cares in the rest of the world. Mormons are barely a blip on anyones radar outside of Mormon Central and anti's or former with a grudge have never been heard of. My belief is that you have too many 'cultural Mormons' in Mormon central that blow to and fro with every little rumor. Utah does not have a corner on weird Mormons. 3
Duncan Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, cdowis said: I heard third-hand that they assign home teachers according to which "flavor" they belong. Sacarament attendance is also kept separately. Statistics show that Snuffy is quickly gaining in members and activity. But that is just rumour. well, as Barney Rubble used to say, "could be, cooooouuuld be!"
Duncan Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: Utah does not have a corner on weird Mormons. if you want them, I have a ton of refferals for you, i'll even deliver! 2
clarkgoble Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, rockpond said: Doug Fabrizio interviewed Lindsey Hansen Park on his RadioWest show regarding Denver Snuffer and the Remnant movement. [...] I'm wondering if those of you who do live in the Mormon corridor have seen any other evidence of Park's claim. I'm tremendously skeptical. I bet most people don't even know of Snuffer is. I'll admit I had no idea who Park was. Honestly I heard far more about that lady up in Twin Falls, ID making all those millennialist predictions than I've heard about Snuffer in the real world. Edited August 12, 2017 by clarkgoble 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 3 hours ago, rockpond said: Park responded that she has been forwarded "leaked" correspondence between stake presidents and area authorities revealing groups of membership in the Wasatch Front area and, in some cases, even entire stakes that are moving toward apostasy as a result of their belief in the Remnant or Snuffer movement. 3 hours ago, rockpond said: I have a hard time imagining how an entire stake apostasizes. In the first instance, you used the wording 'moving toward apostasy', and I can certainly see that. I served in a ward on my mission that was making a similar move. It had been allowed over some years to become a safe haven for a progressive/feminist clique that was growing in its influence and reach. In my time, we had ceased holding 'gendered' meetings (so priesthood and Relief Society were combined each week), and a blind eye was turned when a sister in the ward helped with the blessing of her baby. These were more symptoms, though. The weekly discussion groups and photocopied newsletter and occasional seminars were where the real movement was, and I could see it spreading to other wards in the stake. A couple of them had started their own weekly discussion groups, and members of some of these other wards were contributing pieces to the newsletter. Needless to say, missionary work in the ward was at zero. Some months after I was transferred, I heard that one of the Twelve had paid a visit to the ward and explained that certain things needed to change immediately and that anyone who couldn't take the changes would be removed from Church membership, and that seemed to stop it -- though really it probably just forced some pockets of it underground. I suspect the whole stake could have become involved, however, if something drastic hadn't been done. I served in the same stake twice after that and saw little open evidence of the movement. 3
Kenngo1969 Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 44 minutes ago, Duncan said: I have a story about guns, a member of the Church and State's evidence but maybe some other time I'm down for that. Can you PM me?
Scott Lloyd Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: In the first instance, you used the wording 'moving toward apostasy', and I can certainly see that. I served in a ward on my mission that was making a similar move. It had been allowed over some years to become a safe haven for a progressive/feminist clique that was growing in its influence and reach. In my time, we had ceased holding 'gendered' meetings (so priesthood and Relief Society were combined each week), and a blind eye was turned when a sister in the ward helped with the blessing of her baby. These were more symptoms, though. The weekly discussion groups and photocopied newsletter and occasional seminars were where the real movement was, and I could see it spreading to other wards in the stake. A couple of them had started their own weekly discussion groups, and members of some of these other wards were contributing pieces to the newsletter. Needless to say, missionary work in the ward was at zero. Some months after I was transferred, I heard that one of the Twelve had paid a visit to the ward and explained that certain things needed to change immediately and that anyone who couldn't take the changes would be removed from Church membership, and that seemed to stop it -- though really it probably just forced some pockets of it underground. I suspect the whole stake could have become involved, however, if something drastic hadn't been done. I served in the same stake twice after that and saw little open evidence of the movement. Wow! Talk about getting off the rails. How long ago was this?
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: How long ago was this? 1990s.
Duncan Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: I'm down for that. Can you PM me? you apparently can't receive any messages!!!!!
stemelbow Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 5 hours ago, rockpond said: Doug Fabrizio interviewed Lindsey Hansen Park on his RadioWest show regarding Denver Snuffer and the Remnant movement. It's a very interesting interview if you are looking to learn more about that topic. I'm sure there are multiple ways to listen to it but the one I use is to download the podcast via iTunes. But, to my question... At one point in the interview, Fabrizio asks Park if she believes that the church leadership sees the Remnant movement as a threat. Park responded that she has been forwarded "leaked" correspondence between stake presidents and area authorities revealing groups of membership in the Wasatch Front area and, in some cases, even entire stakes that are moving toward apostasy as a result of their belief in the Remnant or Snuffer movement. That's quite a claim. Personally, I only know a few people who have left the church for that reason but among them in a direct descendant of Bruce R. McConkie -- which was surprising to me. Obviously Snuffer earned a spot on the infamous "bubble chart" of church threats that was leaked but so did a number of other people/issues. I'm wondering if those of you who do live in the Mormon corridor have seen any other evidence of Park's claim. I'll still have to listen, I guess, but I'm doubting this claim by Sister Park, or just as likely she's getting fed garbage for funsies. Correspondence between multiple Stake Presidents to Area authorities talking about many people in many stakes, and in some cases whole stakes moving towards apostasy because they believe in the remnant/snuffer movement? IF she has something leaked, I can at least guarantee, that if she has something leaked from my SP to an area Authority it is fake. I wouldn't doubt that there are plenty of people interested, intrigued, or sympathetic. Whose leaking the SP or the area Presidency? Why to her? Well at least this has me interested enough to ask and might get me to listen to this Fabrizio interview.
Bernard Gui Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: But then I'm constantly amazed at how immune my ward seems to be from the weird stuff I read about on this message board and elsewhere: Nor mine here in Washington. pretty boring, but also comforting. 3
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: But then I'm constantly amazed at how immune my ward seems to be from the weird stuff I read about on this message board. This is exactly how I feel. My impression is that the internet allows for the amplification of rather isolated weirdness. Or maybe I'm just lucky? Edited August 12, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan 2
Scott Lloyd Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: This is exactly how I feel. My impression is that the internet allows for the amplification of rather isolated weirdness. Or maybe I'm just lucky? I think your impression is spot on. But I thought of two or three other weird things that haven't hit my ward yet: arbitrary banning of smartphones at church, disgruntled dissidents nailing (or I guess that would be taping) lists of their complaints to the meetinghouse door, and clandestine undercurrents in the membership about stockpiling weapons, forming tent cities in the desert and the like. Oh, and the guy who interviewed and wrote a book about another guy who had visions of nasty things happening, including most of the apostles being wiped out in a disaster or an accident or something. Somebody help me out here; I can't recall the name of the book or the author, but it was quite the sensation for a while among a segment of Mormondom. Edited to add: I remembered the title: Visions of Glory. And it's by John Pontius. Rather than link to the book's Amazon listing, I'll link to this review by BYU Professor D. Kelly Ogden. Edited August 12, 2017 by Scott Lloyd
Calm Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) Spencer was the name given, though it was an alias. John Pontius iirc was the author. Visions of Glory. Haven't heard anything from Spencer since Pontius passed away that I can remember. Edited August 12, 2017 by Calm
Scott Lloyd Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Calm said: Spencer was the name given, though it was an alias. John Pontius iirc was the author. Visions of Glory. Haven't heard anything from Spencer since Pontius passed away that I can remember. Yup. Reminds me of the incident with Hiram Page and his seer stone recounted in Doctrine and Covenants 34.
Calm Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 This is the review I shared with a neighbour who was given the book by another neighbour and was having nightmares. https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2013/05/31/greg-smith-reviews-john-pontius-book-visions-of-glory
Scott Lloyd Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Calm said: This is the review I shared with a neighbour who was given the book by another neighbour and was having nightmares. https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2013/05/31/greg-smith-reviews-john-pontius-book-visions-of-glory I've seen that one as well, and it's a good one.
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